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Recordings

Meeting Notes

Transcript

well welcome again to this week's beanock Dow meeting uh appreciate everybody joining us should be a good meeting we will kick things off as weusually do I've got the deck that I'll pull up here just in a second and uh asalways uh happy to take questions as they come up either from folks in theaudience or folks asking through the chat um I would do my best to keep an eye on both the um the Barnard chat andthe chat for this specific voice Channel um but if I miss something as alwaysfeel free to jump in and let me know so with that I will share my screen allright somebody's unmuted with some background noise all right sounds like it's gone okay so big items up front umso as we've been talking about for the last couple weeks uh beanock 3 is currently in its remediation phase havea little bit more information on that a little bit later on in the prev presentation the other thing uh thatwe're discussing and it's come up over the last week or so is uh the forkmigration system so this is a system that is being um built out by Bean softFarms to let's say to potentially facilitate um some movement betweenthese uh the forks that are currently being discussed or or under development and again you know willing to takequestions on any of those items uh as they come up sounds like someone's off all right back in so I think we'll havemore information on the uh the fork migration system that's under development over the coming weeks wantto get that into the deck now so that the Dow is aware all right jump downinto projects and initiatives so this uh this slide's been reworked just a littlebit to add a little bit more clarity around kind of how projects move throughthis process so what we've done is basically taken the items that are indevelopment before they had actually been pulled off this funnel chart and they just appeared as Gant charts we'vegot them still on so that everything's kind of all in one place so you know nota whole lot of change in a lot of the items that are here up above the pel we've got pretty much the same group ofof potential projects that have been um been discussed or currently being discussed by the community in the thetop and and let's say middle of the funnel which will uh what be the middle of the funnel we've got liquid stockstock and seeds external yield distribution and Blacklist mitigationand then down and then active development component again you know stuff that we're we either have a current Gant chart 4 we'll have one inthe near future we got beanock 3 and the fork migration system all right sowatching the chat so first question that I see uh is oh and actually Nas Jack umwe will I'll come back up to your questions as well actually you know what I will do that nowbecause probably now is as good a time as any to to start asking questions andand start to work through the ones we have so nasra asks if one main goal of forks is to get rid of unripe and inparenthesis nasra says can imagine or can't they can't migrate to the new system why don't you just get a set timefor chopping to end or I'm sorry why don't you just set a time for chopping to end when the date is reached anyonewho has chopped gets the chop rate from I'm going to interpret this as sayingget the chop rate from when the countdown began I guess you know midly I don't have an immediate answer to thatas you know just an observer I would say that you know creating additional complexity around the chop processprobably isn't the right the right approach at this point can I hop inabsolutely so I I see nasck also asked to give a general Spiel on the fork system which I guess I can do but wantedinfect specific question you know he just one of the main goals is to get rid of unripe you know if one of the maingoals is to get rid of unripe why not just give a set time for chopping to end honestly I think your idea is veryinteresting from the perspective of that would sort of create a a race such that everyone would have to chop or sort ofthere's this game of chicken which would probably have some weird I mean it's definitely a a funky game to play but II kind of want to take a step back and just the main goal of the fork system has nothing to do with unrightor getting rid of unripe in particular uh since the governance exploit over twoyears ago uh there's been a big open question with respect to beanockgovernance like what what would it look like to move back to a an actual decentralized version of governance andI think kind of goes without saying but the the lengths that we went initiallyto try to make beanock decentralized and really adhere to the values of the space are directlyundermined by the fact that now the system is exclusively governed by amultisig and you could say that even before the hack because there was a multisig that this was still the case tome it's quite substantively different and the the big open question becomeswell given that the system is not at a place where it it can just be left alonein perpet or at least I I I certainly don't think so uh given that we likelywill need to be able to continue to upgrade beanock and I use the Royal we he like the the the beanock community ifwe need to continue to make improvements to the model is there a way to do it where beanock is both a smart contractand has some sort of permissionless governance system and when it comes to the permissionless governance systemwhat type of properties does that system have and in shortthe like the Crux of the issue comes from the fact that being stuck as a contract holds value and accordinglybasically the governance of the contracts that hold the value can sort of do arbitrary things with that valuewhich is in practice exactly what happened with the exploit where someone took control of the contracts and wasable to arbitrarily extract value from the system and this can even potentiallybe a a minority in certain instances exercising control over the majority orthe potential majority that want to make certain changes where the minority says no changes can be made and this was thethis was the problem that beanu has found itself teetering quite close toover the past nine months 12 months where it's been uh exceedingly andincreasingly difficult uh for bips to pass even even when it seems likethere's no real real uh push back from uh any active participants in thecommunity to you know that the biip shouldn't pass it's just simply that there's not enough voter participationand then you would say well maybe just lower the quorum to participants or lower the the Quorum based on historicalparticipation might be better to say but the problem there is that now you get into a system where like it's quite easyto make changes and you have a circumstance where users that onboarded to a particular version of the systemnow sort of have the software changed out from under them and they don't they don't like the properties that they'regetting anymore and you know it it's one of those things where voting to makeOmnibus changes or unilateral changes to the system for all participants seems tohave quite undesirable properties when compared to a system like bit coin whereyou know it's it's quite a relatively simple process to make changes to theBitcoin software that uh are backwards compatible um but when it comes tochanges to the software that are not uh it it requires a hard fork and what thisdoes is it creates really interesting properties for the users where basically the the version of the software thatthey opt into they're more or less guaranteed of course you could have a social fork or in practice that's notreally the case but you have much higher guarantees or much better guarantees that your value will still be in thesame system where you left it and so just from a fundamental perspective inin my opinion the fork system has much less to do with the current beanock orreally anything to do with the current bean stock other than this is a proposal to the governance solution and and uhfrom my perspective it's quite an elegant uh solution to the governance uh the governance problem because youactually now get a lot of really nice additional properties beyond the one that I just described where basicallyyou can any participant in the system that wants to try out new rules they nolonger need the support of the majority to test out those rules they can simplyrun the test and the reason to formalize the fork migration system into somethingin the current bean stock is that this could potentially allow for really simple transfers of value from theexisting version that anyone participant is using to a newer version of beanockso it's like you don't ultimately it seems negative potentially negative forboth Bean stocks assuming we just have two that the only way to go from one tothe other is to sell from one and buy in the other as opposed to being able tojust migrate where you burn from one and then it mince in the other it's much less uh adversarial and so there's someidea of on the one hand you know there's this now much greater ability toinnovate and attempt to improve the system uh with a really low friction andlow danger way for the two Bean stocks to sort of uh respect and honor eachother and therefore you know and there's a lotmore to say on the fork system and some of the positive externalities but just to answer your question about like thegoal is to get rid of unripe in fact one of the only problems the biggest problem Ithink by far with the bork migration system as it's currently designed isthat because there's no way for the Oldbeant Stock to verify that the new beant stock ishonoring the chop rate then it like like there's no way for the old bean stock toknow that once you migrate the unripe assets that they will still be uh subject to a chop rate such that you canbasically get around the chop if you're able to migrate unripe assets so thiscreates a problem where basically either you know you can't Mig your unripe assets at all or you have to chop andthen migrate the regular assets and this kind of sucks uh this is like I said thebiggest problem with the fork migration system but in general this seems likepositive in so far as it fixes in my opinion the largest outstanding problem with bean stock and you know at at theat the margin the existing bean stock will remain uhupgradeable and so uh at least in the you know foreseeable future there's noreason to force you know discontinuity of unripe if that makes sense and thisgets into like what I think when you know when people think about Forks youknow there's a lot of like at least reading the Discord uh over the pastcouple days uh it seems like there's been quite a lot of fear and anger uh inso far as like what about us you know people are people are quite perturbedthat you know there's going to be some new be stock and from my perspective I Ithink one of the real beauties of the fork migration system is that the way inwhich the new beant stocks honor the oldbeanock is entirely up to the new fork and so to the extent that there istremendous value to beanock in honoring all of its oldobligations uh it seems like that will be something that can play itself out in the market where uh at least on this endI I intend to work on Forks that will to as much of an extent as seems reasonablehonor the old debt and there're may end up being more than one fork uh that doesso and so when it's all said and done I don't think that it's unreasonable or even potentially unlikely that you knowthe the system there ends up being multiple systems that each individually uh are able to honor theobligations of the original beant stock so a a far cry from likedishonoring the debt that exists if anything the way the fork migration system is set up uh it could potentiallyallow for uh extra honoring of the debt where you could imagine multiple uh beanstock Forks uh having some degree of success and potentially uh getting to apoint where each of those Bean stocks redeem back or pay back uh some of theoriginal Bean stocks obligations and that wouldn't preclude beanock from paying back some of Beano's originalobligations so to me I I think I mean it's very clear that people aretremendously frustrated I'm quite frustrated as well with the just theit's very hard in practice being doxed and this is something we've talked about uh I've talked about extensively youknow to sort of just like lead that is not a a position that uh I want to haveuh and that's not a position Brendan wants to have either and so we're quitecaught uh between wanting to participate in thediscussion and contribute to being stuck while at the same time not do so in away that it sort of solidifies or increases the solidity in which peopleperceive us as leading the protocol and yeah it's it's quite frustrating whenyou know we we and I'm not saying that this isn't our fault uh per se I'm justexpressing that it's frustrating when we put out an article that at least in myopinion was quite nuanced and and it's sort of just shredded up in such a waythat doesn't really doesn't make having a discourse about the ideas very attractive to to engage in publicly it'slike you know the the there are some I think quite interesting ideas presentedin the the article particularly around a like a solution to the governanceproblem and the just the overwhelming like negative everything like it's it'squite it's quite a difficult thing to engage in so on the one hand I you knowI'm very happy to be here and you know to the extent people have questions or problems with uh this this proposal I'mI'm more than happy to engage and talk about them so I think it's really a quite a strong proposal for beanock uhbut at the same time just want to call attention to the fact that like I justfeel like there's such an over overwhelming sense of cynicism at the moment and I mean to some extent it's crypto and so peoplegenerally have quite a cynical perspective on a lot of this stuff and based on my experience in the space it'squite reasonable to be cynical like people are really dodgy in this space inin a way that is quite repulsive often but at the same time it's like there'sso much love and effort that has gone in and continues to go into beanock it'sreally heartbreaking to see the way that people are talking about it and you knowpeople think that the the budget is still like being stolen it's like how isthis the quality of the conversation at the moment you know there's so much good work happening you can look andliterally see the commits you can see the bips and so to me it's very painfulto be trying to participate in a discussion about how to improve the system how to fix the system how toactually incre inre the likelihood that people get paid back because right now that seems like it's not happeninganytime soon unless E 10 X's so it's like well let's try to be proactive andtry to try to try to make this thing work and it just feels like the more youknow it feels like less is more at the moment because of the way even a youknow an article like this has been responded to so uh the reason I mentioned that is I I I'm also open toconversation and feedback about the discourse and how we can particularly aswe try to turn this new page and hopefully enter a period with dramatically more experimentation than we've seen over the past two years buthopefully a lot of uh repayment uh as well a lot more than we've seen in the past two years how we can potentially dothat in a way that is a lot less like leading to conflict right now it it feels like it it really sucks um sothat's my spiel yeah and happy to talk more about any or all of this so Ben one of the uh one of the questions that I'veseen pop up a handful of times through the Discord and it's actually kind of can be encompassed with nas Jack'squestion number two is just generally about this idea of like let's call like assettransferability and um you know I think probably safe to say that a lot ofthat's going to come down to water the particulars of any new Forkand you know you've kind of polluted to that um but you want to anything else you want to add about that idea of youknow current participants in this iteration of beanock and the ability atleast in what you foresee you know those participants ability to kind of movefrom this iteration to another iteration or between iterations of beanock in the future this is question two n Jacks yeahNas Jack asked about this the Pod line spefic um but I think it's probably just abroader topic that people are interested in not only for pods but you know evenjust for for being itself or you know silop positions or or what have you I'ma fan of uh reading the question as as asked don't miss anything yep so NasJack asks what happens to pod to what happens to pod line when migrating to afork specifically the fork you are planning not just a v the fork cons set whatever rules answerwell first I just want to reiterate even though he said not a vague the fork cons set whatever rules answer the generalstructure is that you know you can even imagine you have multiple Bean stockswith their own independent pod lines that a a newb V stock wants to honormore than one of those pod lines so how that beanock handles it you can imagineis not so simple and so just want to reiterate the the flexibility of thissystem is quite important uh from my perspective and with that said to answerspecifically as far as I'm aware you know there's not uh there hasn't been any decisions made on what the specificmigration will look like uh personally I think the thing that would be best is ifthere was some uh basically full reset of the the Pod line such that the newbeanock has a brand new pod line and the temperature can reset to zero but all ofthe pods from the old bean stock remain honored at some later market cap solet's say you know when the bean Supply hits X where X could be a 100 million abillion 10 billion when the bean Supply hits certain amount at that point theold pod line will start getting paid back and you could do something similar for the old furt holders potentially andsomething similar for deposits where it's like the simplest version is all of the existing participants get someassets from the new bean stock and the new beanock starts to pay you know thoseasset holders at some future Supply does that make sense and if I wasunderstanding you earlier too I mean the one of the things you mentioned was the idea that what you just described youknow was something like a reset of the Pod line and you know futurereincorporation a particular market cap could happen in parallel with theexisting system still staying in place correct that's exactly right so it'slike any of these Forks need not require you to burn your pods they could youknow they could say the only way to Mint pods in the new Fork is if you burn yourold pods but that that need not be the case and personally I don't think that that that makes the most sense like if anew Fork is going to honor the old Fork uh it should probably do so in a way that like maximizes people's level ofcontent of staying in the system if that makes sense now on the other hand it's like there is some cost to the newsystem of issuing these Assets in so far as it could create like some initial Supply overhang of people just want toyou know let's say you got issued 100,000 new pods uh from the new forkand you're like this thing I just want to take out any liquidity that I have that could hamper the new beanstock so there is at least some reason to impose some cost to migrate um butthese are the types of things that I think can be sort of discovered out in the wild based on how the marketresponds to this stuff so from my perspective it's you know historically I think oneof the reasons why we find ourselves in the current predicament is that uh at every step the DA has decided to be asaggressive as possible with respect to honoring the preh Haack holders and it'slike well through this Fork system we certainly don't need to go from like oneto zero and just throw our hands up and declare failure uh or absolute failureinstead we can try out different different potential changes um so it'slike well if we push back the repayment uh until the Supply hits a billion howdoes that change things oh no it's like there was still too much you know people trying to just exit the systemimmediately such that you know nothing happened you know maybe we need to be more aggressive these are all these arethings that are almost impossible to answer without seriously seeing how it works out in the market if that makessense one thing I would add is that uh one of the examples that Ben just described where a new bean stock isdeployed that just automatically honors old old debt whether it's pods fertilizer Etc doesn't even actuallyrequire the fork system uh anyone can deploy that version of bean stock tomorrow permissionless Le yeah that's agreat point and this just you know something that I said in my little Spiel but uh I appreciate you sort of drivingat home guy which is that the main reason for the fork system is to makethe new bean stock as minimally adversarial to the old bean stock to alarge extent because this it supports the burning and minting of the beans itself so instead of having like a selland then buy you can just have a a change over potentially I wanted to briefly double click on nasdaq's firstquestion about the unripe uh with respect to the fork system because I think it's helpful to go through a quick example currently the recapitalizationrate of unripe is something like 25 or 26% and that amount squared is more orless 6% which is the rate that people are currently getting for chopping andso 500 unrip beans and the question with the fork system is if the fork system isto allow unripe deposit migrations how much is the fork system going to allow you to move uh with your unripe how muchof the underlying is it going to let you move and you know thinking through to its conclusion if if uh if the sourcebean stock the current be stock allows you to migrate that full 25% that's underlying it can't it can't know howthat destination bean stock is actually going to handle it and maybe the destination bean stock just allowspeople to chop in exchange for that 25% which is not okay so to me uh it's notexplicitly not necessarily a goal of the fork system get to get of unripe uh to excuse me to get rid of unripe but itseems unclear if there are any constructions for doing so in a way that reasonably honors the arrangement of thebarn in the current bean stock but IDE is welcome all right keep um pushing through Nas Jack's questions so NasJack's question number three how do you square blaming a toxic community on lack of demand when there's been minimalcommunication from you guys and how do you think you can Fork a community so II do want to clarify I don't AR my intention with the language uh in thearticle was certainly not to blame uh the community for Bean Stock's failureuh in fact it was an acknowledgement of failure on our part for the communitybeing so toxic and so I'm sorry that uh it got misinterpreted in that way knowsomeone that Prides myself on Clarity in my writing that was definitely a Miss but I don't I don't want to give theimpression that we blame the community for there being a lack of demand just the fact that things really are so toxicuh in the Discord to me is a I mean it's it's a quite a large failure and it sucks and it uh inju AOS to the qualityof the community before the hack it's like I mean night and day I don't even think covers it so that was more the youknow that was in the paragraph about our failures and that that was where the comment was coming from um not notpointing any fingers other than acknowledging our own fault and how do you think you can Fork a community wellon the one hand I don't really know like we're gonna find out one thing I hopeis that the like the energy will change quite substantively with a new Forum I'mcertainly going to advocate for different censorship rules in that Forum than in the beanock Forum I think one ofthe open experiments with this forum was basically no censorship uh even of liketo me what are clearly disingenuous comments like really just like grosslynegative um which uh you know kind of sticking with the original Vision havenever felt that it was a good idea to just like ban people at the same time it's like we got to try we got to trysome different stuff because this really is not working so I think it's like forking the community itself as like agroup of people I don't know how that's going to go I think one of the benefits of like starting over to a large extenteven if some of the debt is honored is like we we can also get a a bit of a doover with like making making a morepositive environment for people to talk about this stuff and the other thing is I feel like when it comes to ourinvolvement it feels like a continuous gripe from people is that we're not around that much and I feel like I'mhopeful that with the new Forks there will not be any of thoseexpectations and so perhaps that in and of itself will create a different toneum honestly I don't know NZ Jack and it's one of those things like I have Ihave a like on the one hand I love I love the beanock community and I foundso much joy uh from participating and I've made some amazing friends as a result of it but on the other hand inits current form like I have negative interest in being a part of thiscommunity it really is like the most negative group in my life at the momentis this this Discord um shout out Harry Smith and all thisgang of gang of beans who just really have done a great job of making this just the worst place to spend any of mytime which sucks because I love bean stock so much and I continue to think about bean stock all the time this isjust not a this is not a forum uh or a community that I feel any interest inbeing a part of frankly and it's like that sucks um but I'm hopeful that I'mhopeful that with a bit of a clean start there will once again be a a setting where it's enjoyable to participate inin discourse on this stuff like this is my favorite this is my favorite thing totalk about period I think it's the coolest ever uh and I continue to think it's going to not just change theworld but be a big driver in the new the new economy that's going to going to be built on this this to me is still thethis was the dream of being stock uh it continues to be the dream of being stock it continues to be my dream it's likewhat does it mean to Fork a community you know we're going to find out but I really hope that one of the the resultsof forking the community again whatever that means is like hopefully we're going to have a a much more positive place toto chat thanks Ben all right so to hop down to question number four from nasJack what happens to people invested in the 99 other Forks not working when oneof them start starts work well I don't know I assume that a lot of the forks will diequick and painful deaths whereby there's basically a run on that bean stock infavor of another bean stock it will very much likely be a survival of the fittesttype of thing now the other side of this is that as long as the new Fork iswilling to honor some sort of migration from the old Forks that have now lost effectively to the new Forkthen it's sort of like anyone that stayed on the old Fork can still migratewith no loss to the new Fork uh on the other hand it's not really in theinterest of new Bean stocks to honor old Bean stocks obligations in perpetuitybecause then that sort of like back stops the liquidity in practice uh of the old bean stock so it's now like thenew beant stock has to take on like the full amount of the obligation of the old bean stock so it'slike I think in practice the new Bean stocks are incentivized to like honor migration of the liquid assets for someperiod of time and then cut it off but how each of these like like particularly the question of what happens to peopleit really defends on the terms of the new bean stock with respect to the old Bean stocks and which specific old beanstock the you know we're talking about here because the the new beanock May treat different versions of the uhdifferent old ver versions of being stock differently all right thank you one one thing I would chime in with uhis you know hearing something like oh maybe these other 99 Bean stocks uhexperience a run uh endend up dying can sound kind of scary and you know the waymy my brain works is I immediately think well what if I'm not paying attention uh how do I know to migrate do I choosewhich one to migrate to and unclear if this will really exist in a version oneof the fork migration system but certainly in a fully futured version a farmer should have the ability to youknow compose arbitrary logic to say if 30% of the stock supply migrates to youknow destination being stock X migrate me if five of the top 20 stockholdersmigrate migrate me the ability to delegate migrating your migrating your assets excuse me to a particular addressall of that you know in theory should be possible in a fully featured Fork migration system and guy that thatfunctionality would be basically built using tractor correct uh good shot that's certainly one way to do it allright so to jump to nasdaq's question number five so really good question interesting one so NASDAQ asked how willBasin handle Bean he's calling it referring to it as Bean one eth and beantwo eth Etc liquidity pool so liquidity pools based on different differentiterations of The Bean token I mean this end I'm not sure what there is to handle exactly I me presumably being being oneand being two would have different addresses I mean perhaps ideally different you know iconography and andsuch that such that they visually look appear different perhaps they should have different names uh unclear on thatfront but at least from a technical perspective there's no issues as far as I'm concerned so it would be a processof implementing new wells for whatever those new liquidity pairs are and and eventually there couldbe you could have you know an an eth well with three four five x number ofdifferent Wells you know each pairing eth or whatever asset to whateverversion of bean right exactly thanks for chiming in there guy I was muted I didn't realize I was muted until youstarted talking but you crushed it all right and um Nas did have one more question in the chat uh in the actualvoice chat um so question number six do you intend to fork in parallel or inseries I think it's an open question like in series I I I mean I don't evenknow if there's like a specific I think we'd have to Define our terms if that makes sense like does a beans have tofail what would it mean for it to fail in order for another Fork to be launchedlike unclear so to me it's like much more likely that there ends up being multiple Forks at once uh when it comesto launching them in parallel I I don't know honestly like maybe at some pointit will make sense to do like straight AB testing and launch two Bean stocks at the exact same time or very similartimes my guess is to start that's probably a bit much but I don't know all right so in the The Voice Channel chatthe next question is actually from crypto wizard so uh they ask what's the incentive for unri skipping takal Langoon purpose I think they had no not SK them on purpose just looking at two different channels at the same timetrying to keep sure uh we can go in whatever order to make sure we're not skipping people yep give me one secondhere God forbid I get accused of you know not answering anyone's questionsall right let's see let me where where was that question you're you're seeing Ben I think that's Town Hall chat 10:32Town Hall chat all right yep all right sounds good um so yeah we'll we'll go through that one now all right I canread through it uh would you well I'll I would give to you you know the just thethe question itself I think would be good y so you said third paragraphs sothird paragraph is I think the reason your article got some push back was it ignored two key issues and cited twoother ones as the main issues one has already been name has been meaned thedata the other Fair governance is messy however to me I think the lack of mincewhich was a primary driver of the original G growth Spike pre Haack being caused by the bot was a major issue inmore people not adopting Bean I'd also argue that the temperature reaches sohigh or the temperature reaching so high has also contributed and this is ofcourse connected to the first issue what is your comment on this okay uh this is a bit of a lengthy question so pleasehumor me as I try my best Ben I don't mean to interrupt you but I did just get a I got a I got a raid alert overDiscord for beanock and it says just unusual DM activity in the beanockDiscord just wanted to mention that as an alert I just got go ahead thanks RexI'm not sliding into anyone's DMS at the moment so it's not me all right so I Iappreciate uh the perspective that the lack of mints and the bot you know I Iguess I'm reading this as that's one it's unclear to me if that's one issue or that's both of the issues but thenalso the temperature reaching so high so that might be three issues hard to disagree with the fact that the lack ofmints was a problem in so far as to the extent that beuck was able to Mint asufficient amount where it was able to initiate a single like real growth cyclean info of capital post exploit I think that the fact that didn't happen sort oftautologically was not good and did in fact lead to where we are right now with with respect to the bot being the causeof that uh I think at this point my perspective on people complaining aboutBots is quite clear which to restate is that automated execution is a featurenot a bug and something like tractor is designed to enable more people to haveautonomous execution within the system and therefore it's I think it's quite ared herring to say that you had one large participant or multiple large participants that had better executionthan others and that was the problem with the system like that's just objectively wrong the only thing thatbetter execution could get you is better execution over other participants in the system the bot or any other largeparticipant acting in a way that they view to be their own self-interest likethat's the name of the game that is what beanock is trying do is create a series of incentives whereby people acting intheir own capacity actually contribute to Peg maintenance so I feel like it's a little bit it'sit's quite wrong to attribute the the current state of things to be the bot like that's not that's not a real theanswer is that the current system doesn't work well enough and another valid answer is that the amount of debtin the system is simply too large uh given the current circumstan is such that no one is willing to buy it uh butthe idea that the whole the whole problem here is autonomous execution uhof someone's strategy with respect to beanock is objectively wrong the temperature reaching so high I I I don'tknow if I would say this is causal to the problem as much as a result of the problem but we're definitely in asituation now where even at these crazy high temperatures there's not real interest in Lending to the protocol andthat that in result leads to a lack of Peg maintenance and therefore a lack of mints so it's like to me the reality isthe the main reason that we're we're here is because the system isn't goodenough and this feeds into a dynamic where from my perspective it'sincredibly important that we and others uh are able to continue to experiment onimproving in the protocol because it's not good enough yet and it's like to meI think it's it's much more constructive than blaming a bot which again is just one or more large participants executingtheir strategy autonomously versus the incentives that the system is creating clearly are notsufficient to achieve its goals uh and it's like I don't I don'tknow it would be impossible to know at this point whether whether it's the justthe lack of mints whether it's the amount of debt that it has whether it's the temperature uh whether it's the theincentives it's it's basically impossible to know that or to even get aan indication as to what that is given the lack of activity or data happening in the so you know to your point aboutthe the data stuff has been memed like you can meme at all you want it's not a mem uh the current state of beanock isthat we don't know how to make it better significantly better at this point likewe just are not at least from my perspective I don't have any big Ideas at this pointum W without seeing more data so that's where we're at and then I think it wouldbe good Rex if you also read their last sentence whichs question and Ben youmean the last right after uh what is your comment on this bottom to the paragraphs the Bottom mud yeah yep so ohyeah I'll get the I'll start with the paragraph right before that so secondarily the impact of your articlehas been to been to drain a significant portion of the main protocol and drop the price of beans significantly withoutmud raking genuinely Keen to your learning of any missteps that have ledlet us here with the management of this process and any ideas you have going forward to remedy it no point usingForks to honor the debt of a dead protocol that no one has any trust in going forward I'd argue wellI I I really appreciate this question or ask because this is a like speakingcandidly I was quite surprised by the response uh to the article being so likeapocalyptic like that was not that was not the the vibe that I thought thearticle was going to create and I think to a large extent that just shows like a little bit the disconnect between wheremy head is at and where the community's head is at um and I think a large part of thatmight be that I I don't participate that much in the discourse like I on the onehand I I think like people chopping and leaving is long-term really good forbeing stuck without sort of a a clearing out it seems almost impossible that thisversion of bean can Thrive again um but on the other hand like I find it quitedissatisfying I don't even know if that's the right word like unpleasant that people are now choppingbecause of an article that we wrote which again if we go back to like takinga step back in the community it's exactly because I I don't want that likeI don't want to be able to raise my voice and have such a large impact onthe system uh this is something that again and again I've said I really don't want but I think the like one of the biglessons here is that for the time being like kind of stuck with it and so Ithink just like ah it's very hard it's very hard to know what the right way topresent is at this point um speaking candidly like I I continue to beincredibly bullish on bean stock as an idea at this point I don't know whichversion of beanock the existing one any of the oneswhich one is most likely to be most successful I don't know if it's possible that more than one are highly successfulbut I feel like one of my big goals with the fork is going to be to try to likeseed a new community with a similar like zest and spirit to the original beanockCommunity before the hack um and I think to that extent like likeI was saying before maybe just having better expectations about like how muchI I I'll be involved in the discourse or speaking regularly you know maybe thatwill help but candidly like this is one of those things where it's this continues to be a big struggle of minethat I don't have a good answer for uh like I I think it's probablyclear evident that through through a call like this like I I have so much tosay and I care so much about this project this is the this is the work ofmy life and continues to be and so it's like I don't I don't I don't have a goodanswer at this point as to how to how to sort of bridge this Gap where now we'redoxed everyone knows who I am I don't want to be in charge uh or the leader ofbean stuck but I it's objectively clear that there's like a tremendous amount ofbenefit to me coming here and talking with everyone so I don't know man I don't know but I think like one one biglearning is just that I'm not I'm not as in touch with the community as I I Iwould like to be or I think I need to be at this point um and maybe like the toneof the article would have would have been quite different had I been aware ofhow negative the sentiment uh or the reception was going to be this is I mean post post post exploit I don't thinkthat like I I think by far the hardest problem has been navigating this thisDynamic and it feels like it kind of got away from us uh where it's like I it'sso negative I don't want to participate uh are not participating leads to more negativity and it was just sort of adownward spiral and then you know once a quarter or so we'd come and either present or uh do like a fud session andit's like that was just that was was all defense no offense and sometimes the best defense is a good offense soprobably got to probably got to change up our our tactics there well we're a little bit past the top of the hourthere's still there's still lots of chatter and a handful of channels Ben how long you want to go I got time Rexall right well we'll keep we'll keep rolling we'll go for a little while longer we'll see what we can see whatdistance we can cover so kind of looking down through the town hall chat seeingsome comments some questions it looks like so the next the next question wellwhy don't we just go in line so crypto wizard says that's exactly the sentiment I have everyone in the originalCommunity gets wrecked whether you hold F or pots or unripe like this is exactlythe type of stuff where I I don't I don't feel like the article that we putout it it would be inappropriate in that article to declare what the plans for anew for so it's like these type of comments which I think are Downstream of a lot of the like the fud and thetrolling that happened after the article went live I just want to push back and say in my opinion that's totally wrongin my opinion uh these Forks significantly increase the likelihood that people get paid back uh at thispoint so just the idea that this is everyone like that's in my in myin my opinion that is the opposite uh in my opinion this is generally going to bemassively positive for holders and I guess want to say my opinion that's that's my prediction is that moving to afork system where there's rapid Innovation and experimentation will significantly increase the likelihoodthat people get paid back as opposed to diminishing it follow up on that sorry yeah so I mean the reason why Isay that seems like there's some other people sort of thinking the same thing it just seems like Game Theory wise forany new uh entrance for the forks uh there would be no reason to pay back theold holders right like if if I'm putting money into a system I would be voting toget less money and pay back previous holders like why why would anyone be incentivized to to do that well one thissort of implies that there will be multiple Forks such that people are who are participating get to choose like doI want to just go with the clean clean fork or do I go with the fork that honors the old debt in some capacity Ithink from a pure like if that was the tradeoff I think you're probably rightthat most people would just move to the new system that's totally clean howeverthis is the beauty of in practice like it's up to the people that are deployingthe fork on how to honor the previous positions and from my perspective likethere's no there's no reason to start with a fork that says like everyoneno no honoring of any of the debt uh and it's much better to do something wherethe first fork or the first couple of forks uh attempt to honor all the old dead in some capacity um or a fractionof the old dead in some capacity and then only if none of that works would I think it makes sense to to start fromscratch if that makes sense so to me it's like the the game theory here is largely dependent on how many Forks areout there and uh what the like like who's working on those Forks if at allto me there is a big incentive to someone deploying a new Fork to honor the old debt uh particularly because ofhow powerful this community can be uh so I don't think it's so cut and dry likethere's going to be two options and everyone's just going to go to the option that says all the oldholders but you never know like even if we don't work on a fork anytime soonthat you know basically doesn't honor any old debt there's nothing that says other people won't now at the same timenobody has to date and to guys Point earlier there's been nothing at allpreventing them from already doing that so I don't I don't really view that as a problem like that's that's already thecircumstance that we find ourselves in yeah that makes sense to me um I think you know if I can give my two cents uhit's critically important to not leave everyone in the dust I think more thanlikely uh it's going to be the original team creating the forks you know I don't know if anyone else has the theknowledge and capabilities and interest of of doing it other than you guys um so you know I really do think the communitywould probably comust if uh if everyone kind of gets left behind this is coming from someone who owns just abouteverything you know I hold pods whole bunch of PODS whole bunch of fur and unripe as well and you know like mycurrent sentiment is if I was left behind I probably wouldn't participatein any form of beanock but if there was some like codified uh way of still beingmade somewhat whole obviously asking for 100% back is a lot but you know that that's kind of where my head is at atthe moment I I appreciate that perspective tremendously and would encourage you and anyone else that wantsto comment about what would be the terms that they would be inclined or notinclined to participate in the new versions I think that's incredibly helpful information to have and I wouldalso add that I think one of the benefits of the fork system is that you know there has been some proposalsfloated uh in the Dow to restructure the debt in the existing bean stock andthere's been a ton of push back to that and so this is sort of the like this is the best of both worlds where there's noneed to force a restructure on anyone that doesn't want it but can alsorestructure at the same time all right well to keep rolling right on through that town whole chat so a hugette umsays Harry's back in jail again or might be in the future or maybe in a future Discord U moving on to milky bear somilky bear writes on the discourse I think it's really impressive the amount of work that the founders had put hadput into the pro this project the presentation put together on the state of bean talk was a huge effort andshould be commended the fact you didn't just throw your hands up in the air and peace out and the protocol is Honorableand should be commended however when you say the dialogue or discussion is low and unconstructive is unfair to thepeople that make thoughtful and inconsiderable contributions in the Discord I think this compounds the exactproblem you're trying to avoid just to know for future communication and they end with the majority of the toxicity isbecause it's a money it's a money I'm sorry the majority of toxicity isbecause it's money and people are emotional it's just a matter of pushing through and ignoring the obvious garbageI I I didn't really question there but do want to acknowledge the point you're making and think it's fair uh in factsome of the some of the people that continue to participate genuinely in thediscourse I mean it's really amazing and inspiring but at the same time it's sucha small amount of the discourse that you know you can try to sift through it butit's still quite an unpleasurable experience to go through the Discord so I hope that this is one of the thingsthat is fixed in the the fork Forum where it will be a much higher amount ofactual significant conversation or meaningful conversation as supposed to just uh you know toxicity all right nextin town Town Hall chat uh so crypto wizard followed up and I think this has really been addressed through the theconversation you guys just had but they asked who participate in a new for I think I think yeah let's just in thespirit of time let's maybe go through the next questions I think Kaka Lango isnext yep uh so writes thirdly so how' you comment in this quote I don't haveany desire whatsoever to try to get people to adopt Basin or adopt beanock how does the square with your love ofbeanock which I don't doubt well this is sort of the the the thing I was talkingabout earlier that I still don't I haven't figured out and I would add to the problem is that I think I'm probablythe best person to try to get people to adopt beanu cuz I I I mean I'm I'm Ithink I'm probably the most passionate about it um or up there certainly and so it's like on the one hand bean stockwould benefit tremendously from me being a spokesperson and I am quite well suitedto be that spokesperson but there's this fundamental belief I have which is that it is wrong for me to be thespokesperson uh in a non anonymous capacity uh and unfortunately the ship has already sailed on that so I don'tknow if it's like maybe the right thing to do is to say like I will speak for ayear and then I'm going dark I don't know when you're like how does that square uh I I have not been able tosquare it so here we are so um last bit of question from kakal Lango uh post isyou seemen anti-marketing in my discussion with you for reasons I couldn't put my finger on have had any changes of heart uh with regard to whatit means to interface or interface great technology with people so uh unfortunately I see you reference aclass here I just don't know what you're talking about exactly and I can't listento it right now we're in this call interface great technology with people I'm sorry I just don't understand but ifyou want to clarify what you're referring to maybe I can try to answer it I can do that if if you'd like sureyes sorry so thank you for showing up and sharing again your energy is help helpful and and infectious yeah thequestion also above it's related it wasn't this wasn't about you being the spokesperson it was simply about how toMarket this product right which is not about easy film or anything but about agenuine strategy to bring a product to Market so I I understand your reason to step away from the the thing but I wouldsay the quote above from that class is actually maybe we've all understood it right right that there's that you said Idon't have any desire to get people to try to adopt this I guess many questionsare how do you help other people try to get people to adopt it better if you're not going to be the spokesperson and andhow does marketing even these new Forks fit in it seems like and and every everymisstep or every trial is a space for learning right you know this is an experiment so do I but it does seem likethat even the Ann the launch announcement of these Forks has been very poor marketed um how do we how do we changethat I want this to work still and what does it mean if you are on call saying Idon't have any desire whatsoever to get people to adopt this thank you thank you well I think one thing I can say is thatto the extent that there is genuine like work this is a doubt anyone can juststep up and start working on something um turn lights off on say I'm sorry I think someone's unmuted sorry to the ENTthat there is PE there are people that want to Market beanock or want to marketthe forks I'm always here to chat and brainstorm and ideate I think if you ask any of the people that are contributingto beanock now like I I try to make myself quite accessible like anyone thatis spending their their time and energy and effort on on beanock is someone Iwant to help I guess unless you're using your time energy and effort to bring the things down but to the to the extentthat people actually want to like help being Stu I I'm I'm happy to be aresource but at the same time I I do feel quite strongly that that is itwould be wrong really wrong if I was I was I was uh responsible eitherofficially or unofficially for marketing beant stock I do think that it goesquite against the ethos of a permissionless autonomous currency and I think it's worth saying like the youknow I appreciate that you say you know my energy is contagious uh I don't know exactly what word you use but it's likethe the thing is supposed to speak for itself you know race ipsa I think it'sthe Latin where it's like this this thing has to be so good that Idon't need to come out and talk about it it just works and we're not there yetand that's okay but it's like what are we even marketing here we're marketing an experiment like come experiment Iguess but I it's like I feel like the right people to participate in in such an experiment are just kind of going tofind it like they don't need to be marketed to and I see I see you wrote here that uh this is egg salad it'sfunny when you were talking I was like this sounds like egg salad so nice to chat uh first time in a while all rightmilky Bear's got a couple good questions um actually right above that comment from egg salad so um first question whohas the ultimate right to move underlying assets F holders or unripe holders how much of the underlying dothey have access to well I think ft holders have no claim to the underlyingthe barn Rays allowed for people to buy fur which is debt and they hold theyhold that debt they hold those Sprouts associated with the fur and as part of the purchase of f uh that led to Valuebeing added to the liquidity pool and an increase in the value held by unripeholders associated with that value that was added from the F purchase so atleast from my perspective which is also the perspective of the beant stop codewhich is what my perspective is informed by I think what the code says is legitimate is that it's it's owned bythe unripe holders but under the terms where they have to chop and so on and soforth but when you say how much of the underly do they have access to like fholders have access to none of it unri holders have access to whatever amount they can chop and all of that is definedby the protocol and milky bear second question is you guys seem to have put some thought into what a new Fork wouldlook like in on putting out a fork uh what would a proposal for a new whenwould a proposal for a new Fork be forthcoming I don't know maybe sometime in the next month or so would be my myhope all right Kingo has that comment below then nextquestion from milky bear is do you know who is running the bot why do you think they are not open to why the bot acts inthis manner and what do you think of a bip to essentially neuter the bot's actions so I think in general it's quiteinappropriate for me to be commenting on who anyone is uh in general I think thepseudonymity associated with ethereum is like not even good enough I think we weprobably want open Financial systems that are much more private than the existing one but I I certainly don'twant to dox people um independent of whether I I know anyone particularparticipant in the system why do I think that they are not open with why the bot acts in this manner uh quite difficultto speculate and it's like I feel like at least from my perspective If You observe what the Botsare me it's it's relatively clear what the strategies are that are being runsuch that it's like I feel like they are quite open with why the Bots act the waythey do in so far as like what the bot is doing is transparentum so it's like it might be helpful if there was some analysis done and likebased on what we can observe the bot doing here is what it seems like their strategy is and then what we can inferfrom that I think that would be maybe some interesting analysis but it's like is that ever going to is there ever aworld where it's like I'm G to say this is who's running the bot this is why they're running the bot no that's not Ithink that's highly inappropriate what do I think of a bip to essentially NE to the bot's actions I think that would becrazy like given that the whole point of beanock is to create incentives where itleads to certain outcomes and the bot is simply executingbased on their incentives in a highly efficient manner so it's like to me tomake the bot the problem that Beck is addressing is totally misaligned with the values of an open system likebeanock and misses the point which is that beanock is not growing not becauseof the bot but because of like a a either a too much debt or not an ahighly e like like a model without sufficient efficacy given its circumstancesbut I I don't I really don't think the bot is a problem frankly I mean if I can just chime in briefly on the bot frontyou know this is just my intuition could very well be wrong but to some extent it feels like at some level when people areexpressing disdain about the bot it feels less that it's about that theexecution is automated and more that you know the owner of such a bot just has alot of ammo and is a large participant uh which is a different complaint andyou know so there's you know fud about you know Bots that convert unripe downand then you know for example over the last week or so I'm not sure if it's easy to check historical data on Dunebut uh I believe that 11 million unrip chop was the largest stockholder at the time like you know don't quote me on itbut I think it was like they had like six s% of the stock supply and all that got burned and doesn't exist anymore andthen that got fed uh and I find it a little bit difficult to follow you know it feels a little bit like acontradiction at least in my opinion and given the nature of the stock system orrather you know given the pseudonymous nature of interacting with bean stock particularly where you know you can'tknow how many addresses people have it's hard to know how reliable the data around you know addresses that have whatamount of stock ownership and how that maps onto particular parties but youknow now I think that if you look at Dune day the largest stock holders something like 3.2% of stock ownershipwhich given the size of beanock you know compared to the Token distributions of other you know call it governance tokensin defi like night and day in my view and it's hard to imagine uh a bettersystem than something like what stock does where it's it's constantly inflating and deluding existingparticipants uh it's it's very difficult to imagine a better system for making you know whoever these largeparticipants are uh smaller and smaller with time I love you mels somebody's offokay I think we're good um so we're at 90 minutes Ben guy what do you think I say we keep going Rex all right we'llkeep going okay um if you have to go or anything I I'm happy to read questions you know what honestly admittedly Iprobably should and I hate to be i' sound like the old dad in this group butuh actually do need to get home I'm supposed to be running kids around here in a little while so if I could I cutoutguy if you'd be willing to take over I would sincerely appreciate it yeah no worries sir appreciate your help heyappreciate you and appreciate the community thanks and thank you Ben course I'm not sure where we were uh sowe were at coo at 56 minutes after the hour okay all rightfrom yep I'll I'll go through those and then perhaps we can revisit the the Barnyard voice chat questions okay sokakal Longo says uh your answer regarding the bot seems like it creates a situation A protocol exclusively forand corporate users to me uh I'm just making sure there's a question okay to me a huge part of driving a billion beadoption was offering what is essentially a decentralized USD Bank what we have is an oligarchy where largeusers can easily usurp the protocol and drain the liquidity of users too smallto pay someone to automate or not talented at coding enough to program something themselves tldr what if onereason why beanock isn't better uh quote isn't better end quote is because it was usurped by large users throughautomation technique with a relatively High barrier to entry at least too high for Le investors well I I think on theone hand there is some truth to this that currently automating your activityin bean stock is has quite a high barrier to entry in terms of scill and or cost but in terms of solution to thatspecific issue uh tractor is a system that can generalize uh automatedexecution and allow people to basically submit or ERS that anyone can fill such that they in practice get automatedexecution so I think this is a problem that is actively being being worked onuh with a clear solution Insight furthermore like once you have tractor particularly a beanock r on an L2 forexample uh the cost to automate or pay for someone else to execute your strategy automatically should be quitelow but with respect to the idea that you know what what we have is an oligarchy where large users can easilyusurp the protocol and drain the liquidity of users too small like I disagree with that wholeheartedly Ithink beanock is probably uh next to bitcoin the system that uh the cryptosystem that has the fairest ownership distribution period no pre-mine no teamallocation uh we puus never took any uh like initial allocation other than the100 beans that were the reward for the first Sunrise call I it's like how could the problem be anoligarchy of large users I mean you could say like the system is still at apoint where it's so small that you have some large users that have a large say and there aren't enough large users tosort of offset one another because there's not enough diversity in the large users positions or strategy theway it is is is it just me that's uh having trouble hearing Ben no I can'the's cutting in hey Ben we're losing you hey can it sounds great now can you rewind 20 seconds sorry I I my phonelost internet um I switched to the to the comp does anyone can you cue me whatI was saying before I I got lost I don't quite remember frankly but it was 20 or 30 seconds ago I don't know how muchthat helps me sorry what I was trying to say is that it's like the there may besome truth to the fact that there are large larger users that have a a largeroutsize effect on beanock and its current state but this is something that I think is is quite practically solvedwith time in so far as you'd expect or at least with growth maybe not with time where you'd expect new participants tosignificantly dilute the existing large users now on the other hand it's likethere's nothing to say that this problem won't exist in the future where you have larger participants coming in and thereason for the growth is that now you have like me mega whales entering the system such that they now control asignificant amount of the system but I feel like this is Growing Pains like new money coming in new powers in the systemthey're always going to have larger interest or larger influence in the system this is just the nature of thebeast but I I don't think that's like a to me it's not really a a real issue theissue has to be the model itself you could say that the issue is the the distribution of participants but I I Iwould I would be hard pressed to to find that a compelling argument at the current moment the next question is whatwas the reason then for raising the chop rate if that wasn't what y'all wanted to incentivize I'm not quite sure what thatis referring to I think I think it might be referring to my previous comment thatI was surprised by the amount of chopping and stuff post the article so maybe egg salad feel free to hop inthat's not what you were trying to say but yeah go ahead I think that was someone else that accidentally unmutednice well I was just going to say that in general there was like no choppinghappening whatsoever and that was generally to me an indicator that the chop rate was far too low that hadnothing to do with the article per se all right uh kakal Longo's next question I'm just reading said I mean one of thekey Partners root manifold whoever dropped 11 million beans so what they're just now totally disconnected from theproject no one thought to check such a move with a large stockholder I'm just not really sure what that that wouldmean to check at 36 minutes ago 04 beginning of the last hour in the townhall chat right below sop's screenshot not a question yeah okay yeah they said I don't think this is right eitherlike I don't think root chopped 11 million beans I don't think they hadthat's correct just operating off of public knowledge uh you know you had to have beans or Bean LP tokens in The Siloprior to the exploit to have unripe so the only way to have unripe was either to have that you know Assets in The Silobefore the exploit and based on my understanding root didn't exist uh at that point in time I mean perhaps anyonecould have acquired them by buying unripe OTC but you I feel like that could probably be easily verified byfollowing the following the chain I'll just read uh rl's comment in case you want to respondto any of it uh I joined late so I don't know if yall mention this already but I'll say my piece if yall plan on forking please do a hard reset nopre-existing pod line or anything to repay the back the people who got hacked give them a small percentage of new minsafter the fork has already gained traction if you attempt to quote honor the old debts on your new Forks your newforks will be dead on arrival uh in my opinion new money will not enter the space unless there is a financial incentive to do to do so the old debtacts as a disincentive uh I feel like that was relatively covered that with uh your conversation with crypto wizardhojet says aren't you afraid of people making rug forks and damaging Bean brand at least what's left I just want toacknowledge that uh comment and say I agree totally aoet asks uh aren't youafraid of people making rug forks and damaging Bean brand at least what's left of it well yes and no yes in so far as Ifeel like people making rug Forks is going to be a a problem in our space fora long time and that like that's really ugly on the other handthat's not a reason in my opinion not to move forward with this plan which to me is is really quite elegant andsophisticated and it's the response to like a 2-year existential crisis forbeanock of what to do with governance so it's like people making rug Forks ofanything is is possible I don't think that has anything to do with likesubstantively how to move forward here but I I acknowledge the risk let's see Imean do you want to go through all comments what what are you feeling well I'm reading through I feel like nextquestion yeah any questions I feel like are good to try to answer but like allthe comments I encourage people to read on their own time if that makes sense great uh mix oyan asks why do you feelcreating a fork is better than simply waiting for the market to come back and releasing beanock 3 why not give it achance to prove that it really can't come back when so close to goal feel like the community have been generally fine until the last two days I mean Ithis is to me where it's like the fork system is a response to the governance problem that is different than thedecision that now is the right time to Fork why Fork now it's like I disagreewith the idea that we're so close to goal like the bean price is 50 something cents we're millions of dollars awayfrom Peg there's no positive inflow into the system whatsoever uh there's nothingto indicate that would change anytime it's just like at some point you got to declare this isn't working and I thinkwe're at that point milky bear asked uh the lack of mints are a problem because that attracts new users the bot isstopping the mints is there a way to address the Bots incentives my problem isn't with automation that is great wellthis is where I think we kind of have a catch 22 where it's like maybe it's not a cash 22 but the there are potentiallyways to address like the current incentives not just around the bot but any conversion and at the same time inorder to actually understand the right way to address that we need more data so it's like if we had the information nowmaybe we could change the incentive such that this wasn't necessary uh on theother hand I don't really think we have that data right now I have a couple ideas one would be to have negativeseeds where it's like you actually are losing St losing grown stock for holding an asset with negative seeds and in TheSilo which would much more aggressively encourage converts like that's that'sprobably the best idea I have on this front at the moment I mean I know you said it's just an idea but uh like whatassets or what directions of converts I guess yeah what Assets in what state would be worthy of having negative seedswell like right now there is no seemingly not a strong enough incentiveto convert from LP to Bean where it's like maybe having like hold LP at this point cuz we're we've been below Peg forso many months Bean Stock's going to start charging you for not converting like the the the reason this system isdangerous or the solution is dangerous is because now you sort of go back to asystem where you might encourage converting to aggressively upward whichcould in practice have the effect of sort of like a hard Peg but on the other hand if if the system Waits and I'm kindof just talking out loud here honestly uh if the if the system Waits a certain amount of time or it's below Pegg by acertain uh threshold for a certain amount of time before this is triggered uh then you sort of guarantee or beanockcan guarantee that the the full outflow has occurred and then it starts toaggressively incentivize the converts now even that can potentially be gamed if it's like oh well in three days thesystem's going to start you know penalizing people for not converting so we expect it to convert in 3 days sowe'll wait to sell like now you get into a weird I'm not exactly sure what the game theory optimal move would be inthat case but I think it's an interesting idea certainly or even maybe like a a small fixed negative seeds forunrip LP or something there's a lot of ways to do it all right Jay asks uh what about the current system doesn't workwell enough aside from debt some of the debt restructuring ideas mentioned today sound very reasonable and allow for thatmarket testing of what parameters would bring new investment Forks seem to be dilutive in Capital Community interestdeveloper time as well as uh creating switching costs are you committed to the forking or would you considerrestructuring and keeping the team's Focus here on the OG beans well two separate questions there one what aboutthe current system doesn't work well enough you know I think you look at being stuck at a high level and it'slike the field is the primary mechanism and The Silo conversions are thesecondary mechanism I think to the idea of having negative seeds uh in some instances speaks to the idea that thecurrent convert system is still not where it could be I think the seed gauge system took it took a big step forwardin that bean stock 3 is also going to take another step in creating more efficiency in The Silo But ultimately Ithink where we're sort of short is like this I don't even know how to describeit like squeezing that the system could do in certain instances where it really aggressively incentivizes certainBehavior like at this point uh a convert upward like at this point beanock really wants a convert upward objectively soit's like from Beano's perspective it sucks that no one is converted but it's like it's already at its maximumincentive to incentivize converts upwards so it's like the best thing it can do is you know the best thing we cando is change the model to be even more aggressive in its incentive structure with something like negative seeds Imean you could always the the Min the Min and Max you know being to Max LP ratios totally but to me that's that's II guess that's that wouldn't require a change in the code but it's like this is still it's tweaking the same thing it'sjust like a different way to tweak it or it's like I don't know if changing that ratio is going to be enough at thispoint it seems like probably not agreed just thought it was worth pointing out totally uh are you committed to theforking or would you consider restructuring keeping the teams Focus here on the OG beanock from myperspective like the there was a lot of uh conversation and ideas floated onrestructuring it didn't seem to be very I think I think at this point it's in the best interest of everyone to to Forkthat's my perspective Dean bankman refried asks uh where is your head at with regard to the beanock brand do youthink it needs to Rebrand if yes what are the properties of a new brand that you you would like to see and if not whyI mean this is a little heartbreaking because I love the beanock brand I I think it's so beautiful but at the sametime I think it's kind of dog right now people hate it so I think I think a Rebrand is probably in order personallyI'd like to see something that's a little bit cleaner a little bit less gimmicky like I find the farming stuffto be a little bit childlike whereas we're we're trying to build something that's going to change the world I don'tknow if that like the informal farming theme captures it I'd really like to seelike continued use of the language and the the like the beanock terms which Ifind the whole metaphor to be very elegant but I feel like we we would probably benefit from a fresh feel somore on that I think uh sometime in the next month or so hopefully right uh I'm going to move over to the chat attachedto the voice Channel I'll try to scroll to the top of where people had questionsokay I believe the top is uh the crypto Wizard's question about delegation hopping back to the fork system uhsolution to the governance problem is delegation no I think people are frustrated because an unannounced Forksystem sounds like people bring left in the dust that's a communication problem millions of dollars were chopped due tothe article seems rather obvious that that would happen IMO well the thegovernance problem is not delegation related uh the governance problem is that there doesn't seem to be a good wayto have uh the ability to upgrade beanock without imposing changes on anunwilling minority or majority and like delegation just makes it easier forpeople to be able to vote uh beanock already has delegation and people stillaren't voting so I I don't agree that the solution to the governance problem is delegation mod asks uh thoughts onstarting a new pod line to bring the field back in play for the current beanock the the way it would work is the new pod line gets paid and if there areno pods in the new line then the old one gets paid so I guess like every time someone someone news sews you go to thefront of the line more or less well personally I am in favor of this idea Ithink it is valuable for the Dow to consider restructuring the debt for theexisting bean stock but again given the the negative reception of this to date Ifeel like it's more elegant to just Fork without you know forcing anyone into a restructure that they don't want andit's kind of like you could just start the the new bean stock with this exactsolution as well so those are my thoughts agreed to some extent like doing that on the existing bean stockwould be a violation of principles to a large extent I mean that was the main argument presented in a lot of thatdiscussion around the temp check and now with this you know Fork system it's notnot necessary it feels unnecessary to do that in my view crypto wizard asks okaysounds like all debt holders everyone who could help revive the protocol gets wrecked uh seems the community would bedestroyed TBA the question is even F not being honored until a late later market cap for real this sucks you know itsucks what's there to say like this is this is not the position we want to be in NASDAQ has a question I believe aboutplots related to the fork migration system uh he asks would they be burned when harvested or would people harvesttwice if both systems end up working assuming the former well it depends onthe what the fork wants so the fork could honor created such that the onlyway get pods in the new system is to burn the pods in the old system or it could be that you know you get you getthe ability to harvest uh twice potentially I I I'm uh privy to the ladpersonally privy is the right word there but I'm biased towards the lad okay Bean bankman Reef asks uh is there a concernthat the fork migration system might make somewhat easier to create and passoff scam Forks as legit are there going to be any code different uh code diffreports of destination being stock to easily inform people of changes in code for the nevs and less technically SavvyFarmers I think I think the short answer is there is concern and I think a a goodprocess unclear how exactly that like that database would be maintained youknow it's like you don't you don't really want to have like some website that is being run by some centralizedgroup that sort of gets to choose which Bean stocks are in or out but on theother hand like definitely needs some way to make it easy for non-technical people to tocheck that they're engaging in uh like it's it's hard to even know you know like given that at least at at thebeginning I would expect most of these Forks to still be governed by a multisig CU it's like you don't really want tomake an immutable contract that could have problems day one hard to know like how to provide those guarantees topeople frankly this is definitely a concern okay uh there were a few questions that were already answeredfrom people posting it in the town hall chat as well let me see oh I guess well this question was more or less answeredonce so nzj says what about the current system doesn't work well enough aside from the debt he follows up saying likewhat parameters are you planning to change you know ltsr temp change rate tough to say system didn't work atcurrent parameters when we had had such a run pre- exploit working Discord for each fork and running away from toxicitytoxicity is such cope what what time stamp is this at 14 minutes after the last hour in the in the barnyard voicechat oh my God this chat is fat well with respect to tough to say system didn't work it current parameters whenwe had such a run pre- exploit I I would argue that the the system was just in a radically different state post exploitway different liquidity way different momentum I don't know if it's like I don't know how reasonable that is youknow with respect to the forking Discord for each fork and running away from toxicity such cope I think that's a little bit cynical man like there arepeople in the Discord that are just like miserable you know like they suckand I don't have any interest in engaging with those people whatsoever soit's like we can just let them keep talking and yabbering talking but I find it to be quite cancerous so it'slike you know I don't think I I don't think that the the idea isnecessarily you know you need to make a new Discord for every Fork but I certainly think that at this Pointforking in the Discord like I I I don't want to come in and say like let's juststart Banning people from the current Discord I feel like that's one of the principles of the way this community hasbeen set up and I don't I don't necessarily want to change it at this point I don't even know how we would goabout changing that but it's like if you set up a new Discord from scratch I think it's much more reasonable to havenew rules so that's you know I don't think it's I don't think it's running away like I'm just not engaging I meanon this end I am cautiously optimistic that given the nature of forks that canonly be upgraded why people opting into them that it does create a different Dynamic where people feel like you knowvotes and upgrades are being are being passed without their consent to some extent I mean it really feels like thereare people around that you know are still groaning that any budget everpassed you know starting three years ago it's hard to imagine that being the case when it's not possible all right uhnasck also asks do you think that forking and trying many different environments will make you less rigorousin thinking about what is correct economically no I don't think so like ththis is going to give a lot more data frankly I feel like it's been very hard to think rigorously aboutbeanock given the lack of data so personally this is not a large concern of mine would you read um Jay's messageright above that Jay says truly shattering that after all of this uh just forking and not accounting for allthat has gone into this and all the capital we have tied up into the current protocol is the route within a month allof the resources that went into into this are just gone this almost feels worse than the exploit itself realizethat is not that simple but really demoralizing that a fork is the route I I want to acknowledge this perspectiveand in some ways it is really demoralizing like we put a we put a lot of chips on making this version work andhas not worked and like cutting those losses feels really horrible it's likesawing off a limb and I really do want to acknowledge like I also feel immense pain about this but at the same time wecannot let our past mistakes or our current predicament prevent movingforward and I think at this point the question becomes not whether or not to move forward but instead how to moveforward in a way that does both put beanock in a much much better position to succeed moving forward and try tohonor everything that has gone into beanock to date uh which is an immense amount of time uh energy effort moneylove passion like yeah this this one really hurts and I you know just want tosay like a big reason why we put out the article in the first place is because Idon't think that this is a decision that can be taken lightly in fact this is adecision that was taken quite heavily and I feel as though it's like Our obligationhaving made a very tough decision like this to share with all of you guys who Ido feel like deserve that to know why we're doing what we're doing and I thinkunfortunately one thing that was not made clear in the the letter was that you know we're we're not at leastpersonally I'm not inclined at all to like to just forget about what's gone on so far and forget about the existingparticipants this I mean this really sucks you know and to some extent you're right Jay like it does almost feel worsethan the exploit and so far as like the exploit just happened and everything wasgoing so great and it was sort of like a crashing back to reality whereas this islike this is ugly you know this is like a declaration of failure whereas inresponse to the to the hack it's like you know there was a I don't know that felt more like a a crisis that hiteveryone and we were able to unify around which is very meaningful whereas this feels like this feels very harsh uhin the sense of like this is this is a real failure or an acknowledgement of failure that is more permanent yeah so Ijust I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge your comments I think the next question is also from Jay um theysay still not sure how it is in the best interest for all of those holding the current protocols assets can you elaborate now or in the near futureabout how all of those in the original bean stock will be converted to the fork or what will happen unless this isspelled out already yeah I don't I don't think uh today I can do that just I don't think any of those plans have beenfinalized but like I said within a month I would expect some some plan to bepublished Jack asks is there going to be a new UI update with the Rebrand is this all going to run on app. bean. money orwill they all have separate sites time will tell my friend time will tell at least with respect to the Rebrand isthis all going to run on app. bean. money I don't think so I think that would probably be inappropriate but Idon't know I think we might be through them all if I missed your question please shout all right Jay says uh Benand guy you both know F was bold the barn race was such a strong reflection of the Integrity of not defaulting ondebt no you don't want to be seen as the founder so to speak but you are as such please know we have a lot of trust uh inyou that you will continue to lead with that kind of Integrity with whatever happens going forward thank you Jay awesome well if nothing else maybe I'llmaybe I'll give it another 20 seconds see if anyone wants to post anything else nzj asks will you do more classesafter this excuse me after how this went pbd like I said I think maybe maybehaving a different strategy on communication going forward is a good idea I kind of like the idea of you knowwe will participate for three months and then we're going dark I don't know I like something like that so we'll see Imiss class I miss talking with y'all about being stuck I love these questions like we just did hours and change andI'm ready to go for two more hours this is my favorite this is my favorite to talk about so yeah I don't know we'llsee I love talking about this stuff too all right well thanks everyone for coming best attendance we've got inmonths uh and thank you Ben this was great cheers y'all peace out take careeveryone see youEnglish (auto-generated)AllFrom the seriesFrom Beanstalk 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