Scrib3 Comms Weekly #8

May 3, 2023

0:00 Intro • 0:10 Beanifesto • 8:20 Content calendar • 10:00 PR pitches • 21:03 Unique features of the DAO/ Beanstalk • 26:16 MEV resistance of Bain • 33:19 Podcast pitching and live events • 36:02 BD update • 43:15 Closing statements



Meeting Notes


All right. So first thing is the first of which we have obviously communicated a bunch about and then Rob drops that in there and I'm going to be paying more and the scribe panel because I want to see if we can kind of get some input and thoughts about what people want to see out of this post. Obviously, we're going to be covering everything to do with Mayflower and trying to explain it in the most bienstock impactful way and kind of simple terms and everything like that, and making sure that it's really accessible for anyone who's coming across it.

It's obviously a huge deal having a bunch of these updates all in one place. So we don't want to be overwhelming in terms of stuff for a lot of people that might be coming in second, that's out picking up, being stuck for the first time in a while. So that's kind of the tone that I'm envisioning. And yeah, I want to kind of see some other people's thoughts from being stuck from the community and kind of, yeah, just get a little temperature check on how we're going to approach that.

So if you think I don't have the best ideas to ping in the scribe channel and see if we can get people's thoughts from there or I can bring it up briefly in the meeting tomorrow as well. But yeah, I mean, we're going to kind of start getting to work on that. If you've had a chance to look at the outline and fully approve it and some other ideas on it.

But yeah, that's kind of where we're at there. Rob, do you have anything to add?

Yeah, I definitely like what you were saying, Joey, about getting some community feedback just on anything that General Bienstock community would like to see in the post version. Eyedrops and the Scribe chat is open for anyone to comment on. So yeah, if you go through it and you see something that you want to have, maybe emphasize there anything you think's missing or just some general ideas for the article, we're always open to that kind of feedback and I can go through like the general structure of the piece for me to just I can just share my screen and go through the outline real quickly.

I know we already kind of talked over the points and I think we're pretty much set there as far as yeah, the things we absolutely have to cover in kind of order of importance, But I can just talk a little bit about Yeah, the piece. Yeah. Run through that just for people that haven't had a chance to get a detailed explanation.

Ah right. How, how's that look in screen share. All good. Yep. Looks good here. Okay, great. So, yeah, starting for the purpose. It's going to be an overview of what's coming to Beanstalk in the near future. And I think another point and a guy you mentioned this on one of our recent calls is kind of emphasize how strong being stock has been able to recover from the exploit.

And you know, that's not something that any project would be able to do. You know, there's a reason the community and the Beanstalk Farms team has been working so hard is because, you know, this can be a really impactful project for DFI and yeah, I just think it's it's super cool and more people need to know about the hard work that's being done here.

So that's going to be kind of a secondary theme in the post. But just as far as structure goes, it's going to start with just the main points of the main Mayflower up to sunrise changes Silo, V3 and basin. And for each of these, we're going to start off with the timeline for how, you know, things are going to come into play with all the bips audits and implementation stuff.

So I have the timeline down here, but each section will include an overview of that at the start and then we'll get into the details of each of these upgrades and why they're important for being stock, you know, what impact it should have as far as, you know, the different efficiencies that are going to be realized. Stuff pertaining to the peg, especially as far as the changes for on being conversions and the base and stuff, is going to be kind of the same thing.

The issue that it solves as well as wider use cases, you know, the multi block MeV issue is definitely something really cool that's not being tackled, at least I've seen by a lot of projects. So yeah, just kind of the unique aspects of being stuck and how the Mayflower Update's going to really, you know, change things up, push being in the right direction and yeah, we're going to have some good graphics in there just to kind of show, you know, what the roadmap looks like, where we're going to be going and when we expect to get there.

And we'll have some more infographics spun up for stuff like base and that shows kind of the structure of it and everything like that. But that's the general idea for the piece right there. And yeah, like I said, anyone who has any comments that they'd like to share with us, go ahead and click on that link in the Scribe chat and yeah, leave us a comment and any questions right now as well.

Yeah. If anyone has started, Go, go ahead. I was just going to say, if you're going to drop it in the channel to ask for feedback, I would I would ask for it, you know, say like, hey, taking any feedback from the community on this for the next 48 hours or or something like that. But I know you dropped the link, but, uh, you know, Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll read a little message to make that clear.

Should I, like, tag on anything? But what do you mean? I don't know, like, tag, like, at everyone or. I don't know. That's fine. Not a good idea, but that seems a little bit over the top. But, yeah, you know, I feel like probably most people who would be interested in providing input are probably, probably tuned into the channel.

So I'll leave a little message in there right now. I mean, if you get if you get you get nothing, you know, that's what it is. But yeah, that's fine. I mean, if we get nothing, I can assume that it's mostly good or if people really have feedback. But yeah, I'll, I'll put a lot message in there. Yeah.

If anyone wants to jump in at some point during the meeting about this, just go ahead. But yeah, I'll probably briefly mention it tomorrow at the end of the meeting and that's cool reminder. But yeah, it's still scheduled to get this out on Monday the 15th, and that's kind of what we're going to be working on the rest of this week, Next week, in terms of long form stuff, in terms of social updates.

So we have we have a guy that is going to be coming on and helping out a lot with kind of memos and reply stuff. We're having a meeting internally at the end of this week that we're going to be really getting that kind of on par and outlining a plan for how we want to get a little bit more reach because we're getting there in terms of followers, somewhat, we're getting to a point where we can start kind of reaching out and getting a little bit more growth.

So we want to take advantage of that, get involved in replying stuff, quote, tweeting things and yeah, kind of continuing to expand beyond the being community and then the educational threads. We still have some stuff going out over the next couple of weeks. We up market markets, red ones going out tomorrow and then a fertilizer trade will be coming up.

So those are on the calendar. Still the normal kind of announcement engagement and everything along those lines means. But yeah, we're going to be really trying to outline a little bit more replying and quote, tweeting and things of that nature. So as usual, if anyone wants to see anything specific from the social channels, we're always looking for feedback, hoping to continue to utilize any tweets that we can jump in the conversation of via the Twitter group that we have.

But yeah, and then the other stuff. Um, so we talked a little bit yesterday internally and, and he's done jump in here if if there's anything to add but pretty much I wanted to bring up the discussion that we had last time about kind of the beanstalk is still here here's we're being talked about today that kind of PR pitch and I know that initial thoughts were concern was concerned about the kind of the language of that and maybe a little bit too much emphasizing the past and not really being in line with being talked ideology and exactly what is trying to be achieved.

But I personally think that it's something that we should work to maybe try to align with that and see where we can fit it in with a PR strategy. Because there is obviously the New York Times article that I had got brought up Post hack and it was discussing at the very end here is kind of what's going on.

Like it's relaunching. They're trying to find a path forward that isn't about the missing funds, yadda yadda and all those details. And I feel like there still is kind of a space to bring that up again. I know that's something as an outsider, I would be interested in reading if I came across that. So I think that there's probably a lot of people that would feel the same.

And yeah, I just wanted to see kind of where we could pin down what language we need to either avoid, what language we need to emphasize in terms of trying to get some sort of campaign about, here's where Beanstalk is today. Like, this is a Dow that has worked hard over the past 12 months to stay afloat and continue to progress toward building this decentralized, algorithmic stable and like kind of kind of maybe bring in a little bit of what's to come.

But, yeah, just I mean, highlighting and appreciating the fact that there's still a lot of stuff going on. And now that the Mayflower is on the schedule and the announcements are coming out with both the post that came out last week and then to be an investor, that'll be coming out soon. There's a tangible thing now that can be pointed to by the kind of PR push.

So if anyone has thoughts on that, guys on PR team, yeah, feel free to jump in. But those are kind of my thoughts around that. Yeah. Kyle feel free to hop in and share any of the other kind of pitches and stories we're working on. I know we're working on one with on multi, but I mean the Yeah, no, we have a couple pitches in mind.

Yeah. Just thinking about this beanstalk is still here. Idea that Joey just threw out as well. Yeah I mean it's just it's just we're trying to think of how we can positively spin, you know, like a mayflower kind of metaphor of like going from a new place, from an old place to a new place. Like, there's this kind of thought and flow and the logic that we could play with as in, like, you've disembarked, you've embarked and are arriving to like, a new evolution of what's happening with the project.

And so, yeah, we're just trying to think. I think what Joe's asking is what we're trying to think of is what would Beanstalk as a community not want us to highlight when we're pushing that idea, Then we can definitely go into some of the other ideas as well. And maybe it would be helpful guys, if we created a kind of outline and a little bit of kind of, yeah, phrasing language that would be used and stuff we should focus on.

But yeah, curious if on your thoughts, if this is something that can be pursued, should be pursued or avoided just because I know the initial thoughts were kind of the, the phrasing behind it. Maybe it wasn't ideal specifically of what should be pursued among all the things you're talking about, the move flag or kind of being stuck like is still here.

Is this a grade that it's that's going to kind of completely change trajectory of where things have been in the past two months that and Kyle fell and I missed the mark on that. But yeah I think it's more of like just what language we should try to avoid if we're going to like refer to the hack in, in referring to the past of being stalked.

Like what type of language would you prefer we, we use if we're going to refer to the past occurrences of being stuck when if we if we want to go and proceed with this style of a pitch, with this angle of a pitch to pitch the project as making this sort of evolution from the past to its new future, using like Mayflower as like a metaphor as well.

Within that, what, what language should we be using when we're referring to the past part for you to say off the top of my head, I mean, on some at some level defer to you guys on this sort of stuff. But I would just say, you know, I don't know if I have any thoughts on how to refer to the exploit.

I mean, the exploit was bad. Like you can you can talk about it in a negative light. I would just say that, you know, the state you know, it depends on who you ask. But if you ask me the state beanstalk and right now is very healthy and even without the unripe seeds change that is likely to have a have a significant effect on on the peg.

You know, it could go without that for years if it needed to. While we implement, you know, the rest of the economic improvements or low hanging economic improvements, you know, I say all this just to share like sort of how I how I think about it, which is that, uh, yes, you know, the Mayflower is important and has a lot of upgrades that are necessary for Beanstalk to thrive long term.

But it's not like the Mayflower is not recovering from some sort of broken or unrecoverable state or anything like that. I've been. Stock's doing all right. So I don't know if that's helpful, but yeah, I mean, I don't know that I really have much say about the exploit. No, I think that is or that or that there's any particular language to avoid or anything like that on that front.

No, I think you're angle there of saying that Beanstalk is like that's that's the angle we should take I think is talking about how it is this it's stable or it's in a stable state. And the other thing to highlight is like all the times Beanstalk has recovered from a more significant price deviation, you know, any other any other stablecoin attempt like Beanstalk, by the time it hit $0.90, it was it was done for, which is like almost all that needs to be said on that front.

But beans have recovered from $0.25 covered from 75 $0.90 multiple times. And you know, this is par for the course, I suppose. So again, not not super related to what you're asking about the exploit, but you know, hoping to give you guys some of the some of the insight as to how to think about some of this stuff.

Yeah, I know. That's helpful for and I realize like, you know, when a new person works at being looks at Beanstalk, it seems like it's not working and totally acknowledge that that's, you know, the reality of it. But you know, it is what it is. Mm hmm.

Okay. Carlos, any other or anyone else, Carla or Patrick update on pitches or other pitches that you guys want to bring up? Yeah, well, no, I mean, I think that explanation was helpful because we're asking you right again how to explain this, this evolution of the Mayflower update. And it's what guys and just correct me if I'm wrong, but what guy is saying is Beanstalk is coming from a stable place, right?

Like, what we should be highlighting is that it's it's it's as you said, it's par for the course. It's it's not coming from this kind of unrecoverable state. It's and so that's kind of the language we should be using. You know is is avoiding talking about like this. It is an unstable not working. You know, if you look at it at first glance, as God points out, it's not working.

So try and avoid that type of language of like it's any sort of reference. So like dysfunction or like a broken protocol, that sort of thing. It's like that's the type of language we should avoid. We should be talking about using language like it's stable, using language Like it's, it's it's working. It's doing what it's supposed to do.

That's what I think we should highlight. Yeah, I think. But I would think like words more like using, like resilient to an adult said things like that you know does that kind of hit the tone. Yeah I think you guys are saying all the right things extracting the insight from what I wasn't able to provide. But but this is how this is how it should work.

So this is great. Yeah. One more thing I was going to add, but I forgot. Keep on. I was going to say, apart from the four apart strictly from the Mayflower updates is a angle that we've been working on fleshing out is focusing on the DAL governance. Like, you know, it's a DAO governed, decentralized protocol, you know, really baked into the DNA of the project I guess in this doesn't have to be now but if there's any like unique features about the Dow that separate it from some other stablecoin protocols that that kind of information would be really helpful as we pursue that narrative.

Well, I mean, there's potentially a lot to say on this front, like the fact that it is becoming increasingly it's becoming increasingly hard to change. BEANSTALK You know, it looks like these these couple of bits will pass, but, you know, it is typically like a requires a huge community effort to get these sort of upgrades over over the line which is a feature, not a bug process.

As you know, one could argue that there's sort of a the beanstalk has to be this like foundational base layer of money should be hard, It should be harder and harder to change with time. So that's one thing. So I guess like the insight would be like, you know, much higher thresholds for quorum or change than that I've seen in other protocols.

What else? I mean, we really like the the Dow is maturing, right? Yeah, exactly. It's a great way to put it. I think that ties into the the stabilization of it as well. In one of the quotes that Google just gave in the in the media request I gave last week for the blocks the article that we're writing, he basically said that, you know, drastic changes in any sort of monetary policy is really unstable.

You know, just the thinking of the Federal Reserve right now and like changing interest rates on banks like that totally messed up a lot of people's balance sheets. Right? So like drastic changes like that are bad. And so that's that's an angle we can definitely take to that that that this feature not a bug type thing that like this is good for being stuck on monetary policy that's difficult to change that that sort of angle is a positive of this protocol.

Well, not just that it's difficult to change, but that it's autonomous. Okay. So the Dow is not deciding what the interest rate for lending to be in stock is, but it codifies upfront, hey, here's the algorithm that decides what the how the interest rate changes every our interest rate being the temperature in the case of stock. And on a related note, this is sort of what I was saying, like, you know, being stuck would be fine without making this unripe seeds change and it's sort of not a good precedent to set in some ways anyway, because in a lot of ways, setting the seeds for big rewards for these assets.

Yeah, this is setting monetary policy which should be avoided. It would be like, you know, a comparable scenario would be if the Dow decided to say, Hey, let's cut the temperature in half because we feel like it or because of X, Y, or Z reasons. And so fortunately, the temperature already has, you know, an autonomous deterministic system for changing and reacting to market conditions such that it doesn't need to be set manually.

But a similar solution known as the gauge system in the future is not in place to have the seed rewards. Plus you know, dynamically update based on on market conditions. So currently the Dow, you know, every time a new token is added to the silos. So for example, or at the being if well, hopefully this quarter and that will get whitelisted in the silo so that it can receive stock and seed rewards.

So when that happens, the Dow will have to decide how many stock and seed it gets, which again is like setting monetary policy, which is sort of a necessary evil at the moment because there's no autonomous system. But the goal would be to not need to do that in the future is a long winded way of saying that making the Unripe Seeds equal is not ideal in a lot of ways.

Okay, But you know, based on a bunch of community discussion, etc., it seems like a lot of the community would be significantly in favor of doing so. But I mean, I think we I mean, yeah, this is very helpful. This is there's a lot of angles I think we can play off on just the Dow here and maybe we can get some feedback even from the Dow on what angles we might take.

I mean, we're also thinking of doing an MFC type angle where we understand that, you know, the the pools in the base index are going to be built with this type of resistance that like other like other projects or other foundations and even other dexs and protocols are just like kind of acquiescing to and kind of just acknowledging that it's going to be a thing that these types of like flashback or like bottom attacks are going to be, you know, taken or they're just going to happen.

So that's something we want to highlight as well. And yeah, if anybody has anything to say on that, that would be great to just got to kind of understand it a little bit more. Yeah. Sorry about could you restate the question, just understanding the significance behind building your decks and building the pools with any few assistance, where would and this was something Patrick discovered in his research was that just other other places across Defi essentially like I think he noted that the Syrian foundation has like a policy of just allowing these attacks to happen and that there are dexs out there that will just like have it built in, that they'll just refund people when

they're there front run. So I don't know, there's just something that we're trying to hit there and we just want to make sure that we do it correctly. Hit on that angle of what the significance is behind that. Yeah, I guess it's kind of like the approach seems to me to be different when you look at like flash bots and they're like, Well, we'll just, you know, you know, if somebody, you know, put, put, put these things out and, you know, the battery of different options where they, they just refund you the money lost and it's not even like the hacks but just your normal transactions where people can jump, you know, in front of

the queue. And so they'll just they decided, well, we'll just refund people, you know, the extra gas or whatever, rather than taking these solutions right into the protocol itself. Well, so the the Oracle solution of basin called pumps are specifically built to be multiple amoebae resistant, not maybe resistant. And the difference is sort of in the name that the the attack or the movie happens over the course of multiple blocks and it is rather limited who can perform such attacks.

Such an attack could only be performed by a validator or a block proposer. And so what the switched to proof of stake a theorem block proposers are validators now know some amount of time in advance when they'll be proposing a block and similarly so like at a high level there's an algorithm that decides who is the block proposer among all the validators based on their percent stake.

And on occasion, that can mean that a proposer or validator can end up proposing multiple blocks in a row. And so if they're proposing multiple blocks in a row and they know that they're proposing multiple blocks in a row, they have the ability to perform attack that or not risk free previously because they can control the ordering of transactions over the course of multiple blocks.

And so primarily the attack factor is that that can really fuck up time weighted average price oracles. So think about how so Bienstock in order to determine how many instrument measures the time weighted average price of a being over the previous hour. If you do a single block MEP attack where you increase the price to infinity but it lasts for zero blocks because it goes to infinity and it goes back to one within a single block.

That doesn't affect the time weighted average price at all because the price of infinity did not last even one block. But the point of multiple MEP is that you would be able to process that price of again, theoretically infinity for at least one block. And if you have a price of infinity for one block, even if there's let's see, I mean, how many blocks would there be in an hour?

Over 300 blocks, even if the price is only infinity for one out of 300 blocks in an hour, you know, that would really corrupt the average price. So this is all to say that existing oracles and dexs like curve and uniswap were not built with this in mind. And pumps basin are know I may be wrong about this, but I believe I think so in a previous call you guys talked about maybe some other dexs were going back or protocols were going back and using off chain solutions to try to bandage this.

Is that right? I got a good call out. I believe this was referring to the fact that new protocol devs like people building new protocols that require oracles because of this attack vector, are shying away from using the oracles on chain oracles and existing dexs because of this attack vector, and they're thus opting to use solutions like chain link that are not on chain and less censorship resistant.

And so the goal of pump slash basin is to, you know, not need to do either of those things to have a, you know, totally censorship resistant and multiple can they be resistant Oracle that's on chain not often. Okay. Well, no, that's super helpful to definitely I guess some of the last couple of things here. You know, we're working on podcast pitching as well.

Patrick Stone doing a good job reaching out, trying to get that going as well as we also wanted to know about events. You know, if you guys were interested in going to any events or, you know, what types of locations you would be wanting to go to. If you're interested in events like potentially speaking opportunities. Yeah, because I think it was one of your community members brought it up I think in the in the chat.

So yeah, we were just curious what types of events in those types of speaking opportunities we could look out for. As you know, as we look for these opportunities across, you know, the whole year doesn't to co world that type of thing. Yeah it's a it's a good question feel like the person most appropriate to do those speaking opportunities would be Publius and not myself.

So hard to speak for them really on their preferences front although I would say I feel like in general there, you know, it's sort of like the more people we can share Bienstock with, the better, you know, example like a Twitter spaces where ten people show up is not does not seem super value added. But you know, if there's some in-person event and they can, you know, talk about being talked to 100 people or whatever, I think they're much more interested in and those kind of opportunities where they can share with more people.

So I know it's very vague and probably not a very specific answer to your question, but I would have to ask them directly for more color. So yeah, we're working from like a big, big master list of events and we're trying to narrow kind of narrowed down to very simple to work with, you know, like in one main ways, like, you know, geographic restrictions.

So like, you know, we it's like if they're based in Chicago or New York or something, if those would have more appeal than, say, Turkey or Singapore, it's it's really hard for me to say, let's ask them, Oh, cool. Yeah. We get to circle back. That's the Twitter. That's all I have for PR. I don't know if Karla or Patrick have anything else I did want to chat about between.

So like we had mentioned yesterday, we had reached out to silo finance, you know, and, and you know, I dropped in the message about in one of our DMS about not having enough oracles to be able to use to be able to like borrow when you protocol is there a way where either we can I don't know like either have another way to pull priced item because it's also something you've heard from Coinmarketcap I don't know Guy what I mean what are your thoughts on general and like the the bid price or Oracle.

Well, I'm not sure I understand exactly what the problem is. I mean in the case of something like Coinmarketcap, where it doesn't really need to be, you know, like a incredibly manipulation resistant oracle, like they just want like some price feed to read. There is like a contract that provides that data. When we had I mean, I wasn't super deep in this when it happened, but believe that we had kind of badgered them for quite a while to use that contract, the price contract rather than reading from the curve pool and they didn't ever update it.

So then we just decided to take it down. If I remember correctly. But on the more like an oracle for borrowing and lending stuff, I really I'm not sure, nor am I sure that that's worth investing in, given that not sure how important is to be able to like borrow and lend beans themselves rather than like deposited value in the silo?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah. I think like, like silo typically does like liquidity incentives. So then there's like, you know, that extra and I think like there's probably people that don't want to sell beans, but probably want to collateralize them to get dollars. Can you describe what the protocol So you mentioned Coinmarketcap, but what was the other thing?

Oh, silo finance. Yeah. They're like, like, like, like a few pool like, like individual bar lending market permissionless bar lending market. Kind of like EULA. So what would the desired situation with beans be creating a market where users can borrow, lend bean? I mean, and that's also one of the other questions we were pondering over is like if, if there's anything specifically that we should be targeting because that's kind of one of the main things that we came up with that would be worth pursuing and vibrant to pursue is lending markets for Bean.

But is there's anything else or any thoughts on that? That's kind of also what we were wanting to figure out today. Yeah, like we literally went through basically like we have a list of basically every type of project that's out there, every project that's that's out there. And we've even gone to like everything that's on Coingecko and we're like, What protocols are out there that are on main net that we can have some kind of bean partnership integration with.

And, you know, we literally went through like everything that's possibly out there and the list came back pretty small. Yeah, I feel like I, I, you know, I got, I got no juice here or is inside. I mean, one interesting thing that was happening pre exploit was there's some protocol called Fiat Dao and they were working on enabling people to borrow pods.

But you know, now my understanding is Pharos is working on something similar. That was one of the more recent bean sprout proposals. So that's happening as far as I know. But yeah, it's I guess I don't know that I have much, much value to add here. Maybe this would be something interesting to ask Publius or I can try to think of who you know, maybe Manafort would be somewhat interesting to ask about this, given that he was doing a lot of the bean sprout type of work.

Uh, last year. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. We can reach out to two manifolds. Is there, is there like a, like a point of contact for Bean sprout? Like who's kind of running that ship. No one's running it. Manafort is running it and now he doesn't. And the last couple of beans for our proposals were just because, you know, there were some leftover beans from when it was funded last year.

So those are people were using their money for the intelligence on chain work and, stuff like that. But no one runs it. Yeah. Joey, what I'm thinking is maybe if you could drop a message in the scratch chat and maybe we can make a thread or something and ask community if they have any thoughts on different body integrations.

Yeah, that seems like a great idea. Okay. Yeah, I'll do that. Sounds good. Um, cool. Anything else? I think maybe I maybe ask that same question at the meeting tomorrow if you'll be. Yeah. Yeah, I will. Cool. I didn't have anything else. These are all good. Yeah, I'll go from my end. Appreciate the time, guy. Oh, I was going to.

And apologies. I know we've already moved these calls once, but I was going to ask if you guys would be open to moving this right before the down meeting on Thursday is like, call it. That'd be 11 a.m. Central or so. Yeah. Yeah, that would be 11 a.m. Central. Just a little bit more convenient on this. And to do those back to back.

But, you know, you don't have to let me know right now, but just want a photo. I can send it, I can. You guys a message about it too. Okay. Yeah, it's good for me, but I have to make sure everyone else so we get back to you on that call. That's all I got. So thanks, everyone. Thanks PR team for all the details.

And yeah, we'll all follow up with some stuff in the meeting tomorrow and yeah, so thanks, guys. All right. Thanks, everyone. Cool. Thank you.