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DAO Weekly Meeting #73

Date
June 15, 2023
Timestamps
0:00 Intro • 0:10 Operations update • 13:12 Discussion around the next five proposals • 15:19 What is the thinking around making Beanstalk immutable? • 31:09 How does Guy envision these updates happening? • 37:35 Is Seed parity in Silo v3? • 38:05 Silo Chad’s thoughts • 44:21 Beanstalk Farm’s attendance at DAO meetings • 52:17 Closing statements
Type
DAO Meeting

Recordings

Meeting Notes

Operations update

  • The end of Mayflower is going to happen in July, what is left is Silo v3, Basin, and the interaction of Basin with Beanstalk. Cyfrin is doing a code review of Silo v3 and working on updating the UI. On the Basin front, Beanstalk Farms is waiting to hear back from Cyfrin on some changes, and Beanstalk Farms has a Code4Rena audit scheduled. Cyfrin will be doing a full audit of Beanstalk, and will audit future BIPs. Basin integration will be after Silo v3 and Basin is launched.
  • Guy has spent a lot of time figuring out what else is there to do the rest of the year. Nothing is final yet and all of this is subject to change. The first thing will be migrating Unripe 3CRV LP tokens into Unripe BEAN:ETH LP. The reason for this is because 3CRV is very centralized. The next thing would be a generalized convert function that would allow for LP to LP converts. Brean is working on a stable swap with a variable A perimeter. The 2nd to last would be a Stalk gauge system, this would change the Seeds per BDV would change on a lot of various factors. The last thing would be removing governance and making Beanstalk immutable. Guy thinks the best way to do this is to make some sort of opt-in stalk migration system.

Discussion around the next five proposals

  • AlBean askes what is the process for the DAO to vote on if these things should be developed. Guy thinks this process is customizable, the current process is to talk about them in the Discord, then maybe a Temp Check makes sense in these cases.

What is the thinking around making Beanstalk immutable?

  • The roadmap is an influence for this, if the plan is to ship a BIP every month then it does not make sense to make Beanstalk immutable. The current state of Beanstalk where there is a multisig controlling Beanstalk it does not seem like Beanstalk can be the most decentralized stablecoin with a multisig. To Beanstalk Farms it seems like no on-chain governance is the best way to get there.
  • Albean thinks we are over-optimizing for decentralization and this could cause fragmentation of liquidity. Guy thinks the current system where 50% +1 is needed to pass a BIP then the 49% just tags along could be improved. Albean asked what is wrong with the multisig? Guy explains that the goal of Beanstalk is to make the best money and the best money will not be controlled by a small group of people. Albean goes on to ask what it would look like to spin up a new Beanstalk i.e. who would control the DNS, Github, Notion etc. They also ask how would the DAO decide what to do with these assets if there is no governance. Guy pushes back and mentions Beanstalk Farms owns these assets and there isn’t a need for the DAO to vote on what to do with these assets. Albean mentions that they thought as a DAO member Beanstalk the DAO owns everything and has hired Beanstalk Farms to stuart these assets. Guy does not think this is an accurate reparation of the relationship. Guy thinks this is a worthy conversion to have about these assets that Beanstalk Farms use.

How does Guy envision these updates happening?

  • This is all speculation but the goal is to implement all of the updates before Beanstalk becomes immutable so that the next update after immutability doesn’t need to happen for a year plus. Rex mentions these next couple updates are fairly straight forward and Guy mentions the governance proposal should be heavily discussed.

Is Seed parity in Silo v3?

  • Yes, the hope is to propose end of the month

Silo Chad’s thoughts

  • They think sometimes the DAO mentions we talk about a big ticket item during a DAO meeting, then say we should talk about this but do not finish the talks later on. Guy thinks some more research needs to be done before more talks happen. Rex is happy to facilitate these contractions after Mayflower has been shipped.

Beanstalk Farm’s attendance at DAO meetings

  • Guy mentions that anyone is free to attend and discuss whatever they want, but they have not been the best use of time recently. The thinking would be for Beanstalk Farms not to host/ attend. Guy thinks when Beanstalk Farms was proposing budgets BIPs and shipping BIPs it made sense to attend DAO meetings, but now that Beanstalk Farms does not intend on proposing a budget BIP and not shipping BIPs as frequent after Mayflower.

Transcript

Jam everybody uh it's a small crowd today but wanted to say a few things on the record uh with the recording going so folks and listen to it later so had a few different things I wanted to run through today the first of which is uh an update on the timeline of Mayflower stuff which is to say that at this rate as far as I'm concerned at the end of Mayflower is definitely happening uh in July and let me just talk him for a minute about uh the different steps to get there so at this point the three main things left are Silo V3 uh Basin itself you know Bayes in the separate Dex protocol and then the Bayesian integration bip which is the Beanstalk upgrade that integrates to the two and whitelists the the beanie well that we're all wondering when when it happens so right now for Silo V3 uh siphon is doing some code review you might have seen Patrick join the Discord and ask a few questions uh thanks for everyone who was helping uh helping him out and simultaneously we're working working on finalizing or you know really uh in progress of developing the the UI for the changes that Silo V3 introduces as well as uh finalizing some of the deposit metadata like you know the image that shows up when you list a deposit on openc for example so by the end of next week we're hoping to uh share the bip for that as well as do some rigorous UI testing and propose the bip by the end of the month uh which would mean you know as a reminder this is the bip that also introduces the unripe seeds parody and so that would go live uh you know as it is currently planned a week into July on the Basin front uh we're waiting to hear back from cyphron on some of our audit remediations and then we'll be finalizing the the contract level code and uh have a couple weeks from now scheduled a code Arena audit and code arena is the the program of this uh you know decentralized audit of many Auditors looking at the code over the course of a much shorter time Horizon and I know it's like you know how many audits do we need and this is not typical for us you know this will be the third and final audit which is not normally what we would do but the long and short of it is that halborn is currently the only auditor that has audited audited you know all of Beanstalk and all of the bips up to this point and you know through working with cyphron on Basin uh we're really bullish on them and excited to you know further our partnership and additionally uh you know they're very incentive line they haven't sold a single Bean we paid them and don't intend to in the near future so you know their uh a relationship we want to invest in so this is all to say that uh they'll be doing a full audit of Beanstalk uh later next month and that'll put them in a position to audit uh you know bips in the future uh which currently will only have one other auditor who can do so so anyway if that's happening at the end of June and hopefully uh you know a week or week and a half into July we'll actually build a deploy the Bayesian contracts uh or right before that do some Bayesian UI testing uh unclear exactly when we'll launch the UI whether it's right when you're deploy Basin or when the beneath well is launched but TBD on that front uh the last one is the Bayesian integration bip which will happen after uh after Silo V3 and Basin are deployed and at this rate we're looking at proposing that bip in mid-july uh so you know the beanies well would be whitelisted a week later so happy to I'll just pause for a sec see if anyone has any questions on that front but feeling pretty good about the the State of Affairs there and uh yeah I think that farmers can expect all that to go live next month alrighty otherwise have been spending a lot of time figuring out uh what's happening the rest of the year which is you know maybe to to zoom out a minute I feel like you know as a community on some level we've been uh LARPing as far as how decentralized Beanstalk really is at this point in time you know and you know that's what we're about to multiple axes you know with regards to the assets being beans trade against which is 100 three curve at the moment uh you know the existence of the multi-sig that owns a contract and can upgrade Beanstalk arbitrarily although you know in our current governance rules are only supposed to under uh you know buy a bib for uh you know the approved methods for for e-bips and all so that is uh one of the primary motivations for what we intend to work on the rest of the year so uh you know this is all sort of improv you know being thought through and in progress and in flight at the moment so nothing's final but one of the first things that we intend to work on after Mayflower is migrating uh proposing a bit that migrates the uh liquidity the existing liquidity that Beanstalk has to the bean eats well and are there a couple reasons the first of which is you know fairly obvious in terms of the uh you know preference for beans trading against decentralized assets but the other is that uh three curve is you know the worst of all worlds uh only one of the stable coins and three pull needs to collapse for it to uh break Beanstalk and you know it would be Monument it would be substantially better even to have the three separate uh pairs against beans and Wells for example like you know being usdc being being die and being tether pool uh would be much better from a risk perspective uh to Beanstalk and a partial migration is uh not really possible without you know like several months of development work to generalize the barn uh so what it would look like to migrate liquidity is that the unriped being three curve LP token would transition to an unripe beanies LP token and there's a you know a fair amount of work to do on updating the the barn and the uh the fundraise mechanism to account for all that but I wanted to you know put that into that onto that excuse me put that out into the ether for the community to discuss because uh you know it is a big change and um it'll take a take a couple months to to develop which we'll get started on over the next few weeks as some of the you know contract level work finalizes for for Mayflower so that's one of the first pieces the other is a upgrade to The Silo to support generalized conversions uh this one's fairly self-explanatory self-explanatory in the sense of giving Farmers the ability to to convert from LP token to LP token uh which is not currently possible uh conversions to and from LP tokens is only possible at the moment and one cool thing that uh brain has been working on at the moment is a a stable swap well function with a with a variable a parameter where the a parameter is a function of the liquidity to supply ratio for beans which is a long-winded way of saying that the more liquid beans are the better price the well with the bean stock would be willing to give uh Traders uh whereas if the liquidity is low the a parameter would drop for example so that's in progress at the moment and after that you know after generalized convert and some sort of stable swap well-functioned implementation the question is uh around what stable coins uh if any to whitelist and it's not super obvious at the moment um you know if the goal is to make Beanstalk as decentralized as possible one stable kind that comes to mind is LUSD but upon further research the oracles for getting the price of LUSD are not super promising in the sense that the ones on chain have very little liquidity uh there's a chain link Oracle but it's you know effectively the honor System at that point so some more discussion is probably in order to figure out exactly what stable coins should be uh whitelisted in the silo the last sorry not the last second to last is uh the gauge system which we've talked uh a fair amount about and published an article on the one that what a V1 gauge system would look like uh as we have designed it currently is one where the seed ratio between LP tokens and beans fluctuates according to the being liquidity to supply ratio so you can imagine if the debt level the Pod rate is extremely high and the liquidity to supply ratio is very high Beanstalk should be more interested in getting someone to convert upwards when the price is below Peg rather than attracting creditors because it can afford more liquidity than it can debt at that point in time so that's the working design on the gauge system so to summarize this is step one the youth migration step two the generalized convert stuff three whitelisting some sort of uh either a single stable coin pair or multiple unclear at the moment the fourth would be this uh V1 gauge system that I described and the final thing that we are hoping to build by the end of the year well not really built but propose is we're discussing potentially what it would look like to remove governance uh and making Beanstalk immutable and we've talked a lot about probably this has talked a lot about how you know Beanstalk in some sense it's too early for being stock to ossify because it does have to compete with other versions of itself and one of the things that we're we're working through is like what would a system look like where you know for each new deployment of Beanstalk there's some sort of migration period where either Asylum members puzzles both canned opt-in to the new system uh so you know and the the reason is there's like a few different axes to it but one of which is you know in this sort of uh you know somewhat stagnant state of Beanstalk we're not learning a whole lot about the model and how to improve it and there's always this question of well it's like well can we do this uh is the Dow going to approve it or not and this would allow a much more you know market-based approach to allow the best Beanstalk to win and you know what that probably looks like is probably also some sort of Delegation system where you know someone who's not paying attention day to day can delegate their ability to migrate their liquidity to some new Beanstalk to another to another stockholder or another another ethereum account uh it's unclear a lot of the details run clear at the moment but again this is all sort of in light of and motivated by how can we accelerate the timeline for making Beanstalk actually the most decentralized stablecoin ashore and so those five or six things I just walked through are the high-level projects we're hoping to work work on for the next uh six seven months hopefully by the end of the year and wanted to you know sort of prime everyone in terms of having these ideas percolate a little bit but I think it is good to have this stuff in writing and either Beanstalk Farms or Publius uh not sure at the moment but hopefully um you know in the next couple weeks they're going to publish something uh documenting a lot of these changes and uh you know the motivations for decentralizing Beanstalk sooner rather than later so I just dropped a lot of info but happy to happy to dig into any of those pieces in particular and answer questions one of these are going to go up for a vote in terms of like should these be done or should not be done if the Dow disagrees with any of these I'm not sure I understand the question for example you listed five big projects right let's say for example some people disagree that we should you know remove governance and make Beanstalk immutable and implement this whole like migrate every time there's a change if people disagree with that will that go up for a vote before it's implemented well the process is customizable you know we can do it a number of different excuse me a number of different ways the way we've done it historically is that we have talked about the ideas both of our voice and these down meetings over text on the Discord for you know over the course of many months like at this point feel like The Silo V3 changes feel relatively uncontroversial including the changes to the seeds for bdv for unripe assets given the fact that we did these you know intermediate temp check proposals perhaps something like that would be in order um but to me the first step is precisely this uh talking about it and seeing what people think but don't think I could tell you that I have the process uh you know codified either on paper or in my head for for those changes that are six months out so if you believe that there should be some sort of intermediate temp check vote that that's good feedback sorry I think I missed can I ask a question please hey Tyler B itch yeah sorry I think I missed the first part when you want to what are you saying up to I heard like you want to you guys want to make Beanstalk immutable what's the main reason for that because when you look at the road map it's like there's it's a good question so you know think it should definitely be like the roadmap is an influence for that decision and what I mean by that is if the goal were to ship a new bip every month for the foreseeable future personally feel like that would be very chaotic on the front of you know telling people about it uh uh you know campaigning of some sort to get people to migrate liquidity but the expectation is that after these changes that lead to being stuck being in a position where it could be immutable for the foreseeable future that there would not be uh you know another incremental upgrade for some time and the current thinking at the moment is to effectively work on the next version of Beanstalk after that such that you know all these various changes and efficiency improvements can be implemented as part of you know one new Beanstalk upgrade and you know people can choose whether to opt into that version or not so quick sure all right guys it is all right I don't mean to catch up if you have more thoughts oh wait well I I did I did just want to say one other thing which which is to more specifically answer the question of like why make Beanstalk immutable is you know consider the state of Beanstalk at the moment where there is a multi-sig that can arbitrarily change Beanstalk it's really hard to it's just like fundamentally not very serious in the with regards to you know being stuck attempting to be this you know the most decentralized stable coin offering uh on any blockchain and you know we had talked previously about or even just pre-explate uh Beanstalk had an on-chain governance system that was not designed to be sufficiently secure and there aren't many there's not that much data on the best on-chain governance implementations and even from a theoretical perspective there appear to be a lot of problems in terms of the security I'm referring to and like in terms of you know resisting takeovers flashlands attacks flash loan attacks you name it and so if the question is you know how can we get to a version of Beanstalk that is optimally censorship resistant and permissionless to us it seems like a lot of the trains of thought end up leading to not having governance in some capacity if who is us when you say us different folks working on Beanstalk okay because this is kind of new to me and I work on being Saga this is the first I'm hearing of this idea um but to go back to the idea for a minute it just honestly feels like we're over optimizing for decentralization and not even decentralization in whole just like a very specific facet of it which is governance and removing governance and I mean we can double click into that even more to say like if you make Beanstalk immutable does that really remove excuse me governance because you're implying that there will still be changes that will just meet new contracts so being stock V1 Beanstalk V2 and migration processes for not just like migration of code but like end users would have to like move from one bean stock to another move their liquidity or their deposits and and then that could lead to a fragmented a fragmented like ecosystem where you might have like people that aren't paying attention on Bing stock version from five versions ago I mean frankly it sounds like a mess and you would still have people deciding like should we go to that one or this one you would still have some people pitching the new version of being stopped like hey migrate to this one because we got new features that to me seems very uh that to me doesn't seem that much different than like the governments we have today and all that work and all those problems that we introduced of them splitting up fragmenting the ecosystem fragmenting the user base the liquidity all that stuff I mean I don't know exactly how this is planned to be implemented maybe those don't happen but it just doesn't seem like it's worth it it doesn't seem like frankly I don't know if anybody but whoever you're talking about in the context of us really sees the problem with the current system it's been working for a couple of years and you know I know there's these hypothetical like oh decentralized like censorship resistant blah blah blah blah but to what degree do we need to go down that path before we like address other more oppressant things you know well one it is fundamentally different because in the current system only 50 of stock plus one needs to agree on a change and the the difference has to tag along with the upgraded change and secondly I would ask what you feel like is more important to work on I mean we can debate verbap in another conversation that's that's that that's a distraction at this point um personally I feel like this changes dog not worth it it introduces a thousand headaches that would just frankly don't seem like we need all those and the value that we get out of this is is nothing that anyone is going to feel anytime soon right like under what circumstances would this help like do you have like a concrete example where like hey in this scenario if we don't go to a fully uh immutable Beanstalk then this is the problem that you would get like that's not a clear picture right now like what the risk factor the what the exact risks are because frankly I don't know of any other big Dows that operate like this I mean maybe they are but well if you're satisfied with the existing setup of the multi-cig and the rate of development I don't know that I can convince you otherwise what's wrong with the multi-sig seriously I mean yeah I mean it seems like the pattern that pretty much everybody does so what's what's wrong with it honest question like I don't understand the issue just the fact that there is a multi-sig that there's like a bunch of people that can control things well that sort of sounds like a but Mom my friends are doing it argument but the point foreign the point of Beanstalk is to build the best money and the best money will not be custody by a multi-sig with nine people on it okay but the best money also won't work if there's like 10 versions of Beanstalk and the user base is split across all of them in this weird way how do you prevent that it's that the market would select the best one I mean at that point people just get confused and go this is too confusing it's great Beanstalk I'm just gonna go with frax or whatever else right like there is something to be said about like a clean clear simple product and not introducing confusion and complexity well there certainly is some component of complexity introduced and the onus would be on the user in this Paradigm to choose the best one and I'm optimistic that whether it's some version of Beanstalk or some non-bean stock that the market will you know end up choosing the best product and what would happen like every time you have a new deployment you would have like new contracts a new website new domain is that that right theoretically yeah you could have a UI for every Beanstalk I mean is that what will happen I don't know well if there's no multi-sig if there's no governments then that means whoever's controlling basically are like netlify accounts or DNS or GitHub all that would be a lockdown so if you want something new you got to go spin up something new what do you mean you could just point app.bean.money at a new deployment but who's in charge of after being that money well currently it's Beanstalk Farms scenario who would own that while Beanstalk Farms still exists but if there's no governance then who gets to decide what the dentist gets pointed to it's a good question I mean if you're referring specifically to app.bean.money I mean anyone can deploy a beanstalk Fork at their own domain if you're talking about governance of literally the DNS bean.money haven't thought about it that much honestly I mean the contracts should not be any different than the JavaScript and HTML code and any of these other assets the DNS the GitHub accounts all that stuff would fall under the same governance umbrella so when we talk about what was that how is that true those assets aren't on chain regardless of whether or not they're on chain they're they're under the ownership of the Dow in a way right so any changes to that stuff I believe they're under ownership of Beanstalk Farms so it's a good question what is what does Beanstalk Farms mean in this new paradigm I don't know yet well it just seems odd that you would say there's no governments for the contracts but for the DNS and the website and everything else there's still governance I just don't see how that's odd at all it's like Beanstalk is a set of smart contracts on ethereum that are governed by stockholders it's like that's fundamentally different from the other assets you describe I think it is an argument that governance is bad and we've got to get away from governance and then you're saying governance is okay for these other things well this is sort of the meta problem of it being it's really the minutia that is slowing down the rate of development where you know a whole discussion is in order to figure out who owns the namecheap account I don't think I don't think there's a discussion either I think my understanding of correctly if I'm wrong but my understanding as a dow member and maybe this is what other people understand maybe they don't but my understanding was really that the Dow owns everything and they've hired the Dow has hired Beanstalk Farms to be kind of a steward of these assets and manage them right is that not the relationship is that not fair um categorization of their relationship uh I don't believe that's accurate in my view so if the Dow right now if somebody put a vote up in the Dow that says transfer all ownerships to some other entity other than bin stock forms would Beanstalk Farms not release ownership of multi-cigs and get up no no I think that would I think that would be very reasonable so then then what I'm saying is 100 correct the Dow technically has final sale or everything I mean depends on what you're referring to exactly but I feel like it's not necessarily true in all cases all the assets right like the the DNS name the GitHub org netlify account host things like whatever we have with Google cloud like all these assets right everything that makes up Beanstalk well again it isn't Beanstalk but you do bring up an interesting point of how those assets quote unquote are governed and yeah I feel like it's worth talking about be curious if anyone has if anyone else has any opinions and not that they all need to be surfaced now but uh you know thank you for bringing that up because yeah it is it is something that would need to be figured out okay I'll leave it there but for the record this this uh this idea just feels feels wrong and I hope that there's a conversation happening somewhere where we can debate it further with the community not just us too guy how often do you envision these major upgrades happening I mean you know and this is predicting the future and you know I realize there's a lot of speculation in that but Dallas Point you know for talking about major shifts that cause some kind of like splintering within the broader user base I mean is this something that would be happening you know once every couple years any any thoughts on on what that might look like again understanding that it's somewhat speculative yes it is certainly speculation but the goal is to implement the upgrades necessary to Beanstalk over the next over the rest of the year in order to get into a position where green stocks does not need to be upgraded again for a year plus that's fair and I guess to you know to I appreciate what Al you know mentioned and I think there are some real you know practical concerns and it's interesting when we talk about this idea of like what is the best version of you know any project and I think there is some kind of fundamental tension between best in terms of like its capabilities and you know it's philosophical like achievements or targets or goals or whatever and then the other side of that tension is its usability and yeah I think to Dallas Point you know Beth doesn't always mean it doesn't always mean like most philosophically Pure or however you want to frame it there yeah I think there is a reasonable concern that the market may say the best version of a thing is the is a either the version that I have been using as the market up to this point or be the easiest version to use and that I mean I think that is a it's the other side of that tension if nothing else so definitely something to consider certainly I mean you know obviously there are a lot of Network effects native to Beanstalk and maybe what that means is and this is just my personal opinion uh maybe what that means is like some marginal upgrade in the form of a new Beanstalk deployment wouldn't make it uh maybe that is the case in this new paradigm you know some more some more thinking needs to go into that yeah and I think that's that'd be my point too is just it I I appreciate the discussion I mean I'm glad that Al brought up what you know what their thoughts were because that's it's a very good Counterpoint yeah I think it'll just be process of trying to figure out some of the details that you know as they say the devil is in them so now good discussion and appreciate appreciate all of it likewise appreciate you guys speaking up anyone else have any thoughts questions concerns I feel like we sourced some good ones in the last few minutes as a final thought it seems like the other um items that you talk through guy I think I mean I you know what it seems like all those definitely make a lot of sense and I didn't know if the you know anybody from the the group had any additional thoughts on any of the other items but from a decentralization standpoint me not being especially technical you know I'm kind of just you know trying to listen for things that that spark concern but it seems like the other items are pretty straightforward yes I think the governance thing will probably be one where a lot more discussion is in order and you know get to a point where it's no more contentious than the others very fair but personally you know if you ask me a couple months ago what how long it would get to take to get to a point where Beanstalk was actually the most decentralized stable coin issuer you know the answer probably would have looked like years so you know there's a lot of details to iron out over the next few months but personally very excited about the future of prospects from what we're working on and building together here if I look missed the beginning was there any timeline update on anything or anything changed in that regard yes I did get a timeline update maybe you can uh catch the recording I'm happy to answer any questions but the the long and the short of it is next month looking at beanies white listing uh second third week of July fingers crossed is Sea parody wrapped up in Silo B3 is that are those two connected I apologize for this in the first couple minutes too all good that's right uh and the hope is to Provost that bip at the end of the month but may leak into the following week gotcha thank you already uh anything you guys wanted to add Chad or red beans nothing in in particular though I'd say uh I think a lot of times we come to this meeting and have a bit of a discussion and then there's this item of like let's have a longer discussion at some point and debate this I I think we should you know maybe it'd be good right now to put some time on the calendar to do that um because it seems like we we go down a couple of the the branches and then go and finish things out so what do we think about that I'm good let's do it what would you like to talk more about yeah well it sounded like uh you know in the conversation between you and Al there was some endpoints to continue talking through correct me if you guys think I'm wrong well what I meant to say is that someone needs to think about it uh if folks are interested in gathering collectively as a group and talking about it I'm happy to join but not sure I mean it's the sort of thing where in order to like effectively host that kind of meeting some more some more research needs to be done and there's a lot happening in the next two to three weeks so yeah just not sure I want to commit to that at the moment but I hear what you're saying I did say some more discussion is in order so are you saying that um the decision to make have been so beautiful and generate new versions of Beanstalk every time is the decision has been made kind of because I personally don't like that Jewish or is it like open for discussion well this is the discussion you know from my perspective this is the discussion every message in the Discord is the discussion the sentiment conveyed in both media are the discussion nothing happens permanently or well I should rephrase none of that would be implemented or happened until the Dow voted on it um so yeah I guess my answer to your question would be two-pronged which is that nothing is final until the Dow votes on it and the question around how to arrive at what to propose to the Dow is what we're figuring out right now so by you asking the question and conveying your opinion like that's that's exactly what what I'm trying to get what we should try being excusing what we should be trying to get out of each other as a community like this is it so thank you like this is data so to take kind of these thoughts and wrap them all together it almost sounds like you know there's this work that the group is doing now that will finish you know sometime within the next four weeks and then there'll be an opportunity maybe after you know a moment to catch Collective breath to start to talk about these other items for decentralization and long-term Viewpoint maybe that's maybe that's the right time to set some specific time aside and like if we got to that point and you needed somebody to you know to facilitate a discussion I'm happy to do that I'm again not a technical expert so I'm not going to be able to jump in which may even actually be better but I'm happy to you know facilitate that discussion and allow folks you know I I would imagine it's outside of a dow meeting but you know there's obviously plenty of opportunity to get groups of people together to talk through something like this that I think the the group would consider pretty important so maybe that's it maybe that's that's the opportunity you know here in Late July or early August to say okay now that you know Mayflower has shipped time to Pivot to a discussion about decentralization and you know we've got these items that are you know this this list that I think everybody feels pretty comfortable with but then we've got these one or two items that people want to talk about let's talk about them then and I mean that's certainly plenty of time if you're looking to get these items potentially in place by the end of the year that that's that leaves quite a bit of year left so maybe that's the the right course of action another thing I'll add on the you know Gathering data and feedback point you know I was planning on coming this meeting expecting you know five people to show up talk about some stuff what's happening what we're planning on doing for five minutes and not getting much out of anyone and it's like I get it you know it's like fair market beans at 90 cents Etc et cetera but like you know we just got four different people to speak up and express their opinions so uh this is to say that was planning on saying that you know Beanstalk Farms was gonna attend the Dow meetings uh more infrequently but I don't feel like that would be appropriate anymore given that given the discussion that's happening here so it's like that's what I mean when it's when I say this is what it's for all right sorry can I clarify what would it mean for Beanstalk Farms to not attend a thou meeting uh it's a down meeting people are free to meet and talk with whoever they want whenever they want and as a community feel like it's a good idea to have a Time on the calendar for that to happen but hasn't always been the best use of time the last couple instances except for this one which is great uh so to not attend it would be I wouldn't be here hosting it and the expectation wouldn't be for necessarily for Beanstalk Farms contributors to attend that's all it means I'm not trying to figure out how the response is as a down member right so not as an employee of being said first but as a Dell number that strikes me as very particular and very odd right and I know that some people Publius and new and maybe a few others constantly drum this beat uh of the Dows the Dow and being stock Farms is like this separate entity and it's really the Dow they can do whatever they want and while that's true to some degree I think it's pretty obvious that being stock Farms leads everything so for Beanstalk Farms to not show up to a down meeting and give updates on what everything is doing feels very strange at least to me but noted just to clarify the point is that at least as I'm speaking at this very moment plan on continuing to have these every other week I mean don't ask me if people are okay if the doubt was okay with Beanstalk Farms not showing up and giving updates then hey uh it's not just my opinion here that counts but I was just saying that personally as a down member that I would feel very odd because where the de facto leads on this whole thing so for us to then flip the card and be like hey we're just members of the Dow we're not special we may or may not show up feels like it's it's anti the role that we actually have I do think that the Dow meetings where people did not seem to have much to discuss or to say that in the Paradigm where Beanstalk Farms was regularly proposing budgets it did make a lot of sense from account an accountability perspective for us to come here at a regular Cadence talk about what's going on you know who's working on Beanstalk what they're working on Etc but in this new paradigm where we don't expect to propose another budget anytime soon uh personally and you know the rest of the guys the rest of the contributors on the BFC and including myself within a few weeks no longer expect to be on payroll it doesn't seem to serve that purpose as well but maybe it does if if the bf's it can you clarify with this whole not being on payroll in a few weeks when is when is our Runway running out I thought we were here until like November that's about right is that what you meant what's so what's the question exactly no no I'm saying in a few weeks time I no longer expect to take any payment from Beanstalk Farms this view because you said Beanstalk farms uh contributor so people like me no no I said BFC contributors sorry for the confusion okay okay apologies so so he said you're not sorry guys you said you're not gonna take any payment from uh Beanstalk Farm in a few weeks so who's gonna be left on payroll do you want a list no I mean is it trying to understand if there's still going to be people working on big stock or slowly I mean I will still be working on being stuck oh just to be just to be clear uh but there will still be other people on payroll yes but you're not going to take any payments I do not intend to the rest of the year I think the confusion here is kind of what I got tripped up on the BFC is just four people that have voting rights that control Beanstalk Farms it's effectively my bosses right it's uh it's guy Chad and two others sweet red bean and um mod I believe so there's four people that are make up the BFC and they vote on what how Beanstalk Farms should run I think guys saying that those four people will not get paid but the rest of the remaining just to be clear the reason I framed it as not being on payroll like I personally don't expect to again like within a few weeks time take any payment from Beanstalk Farms the rest year you know I believe you know there are different things that either Chad or red beans might do for for different Grant work uh you know as it comes up but yeah just you know when I say not on payrolls like not getting paid a salary on a recurring basis sure yeah I was just clarifying all right so I'm sorry yeah thank you thank you for clarifying yeah not everybody in the things like Forum so not only engineers and people working are going to stop being paid uh not in the four weeks we're all going to stop being paid in november-ish well again and you know that that's just with our current budget you know Like Anything could happen this is not to say that we'll never propose another budget or anything like that anything can happen but yes the existing budget uh will ask us around that long yes but then sorry EB okay go ahead I think they're just unmuted it accidentally I I don't I didn't hear a question are you going once going twice any any updates on fundraising for the other efforts or in other words any updates on on the status of us having a job in like November or there are people being people being around to contribute on being started come November if you're asking about through Beanstalk Farms specifically no updates at this time ready thanks everybody talk soon yeah take that one