DAO Weekly Meeting #44

November 3, 2022
DAO Meeting


Meeting Notes

Bean Sprout Update

  • Root is making a big push to make markets for the World Cup
  • Root is considering an application for a loan from the DAO
    • The loan would be used for liquidity for the World Cup markets
    • Earned Beans from the loan will be returned 100% to the DAO meaning there is no dilution to Stalk holders during the time of the loan
    • When the term ends the amount of the loan will get burned
    • Any revenue Root makes from the loan, there will be a profit share agreement between Root and the DAO
    • MisterManifold thinks this only works if the party requesting the loan is highly aligned with Beanstalk, Root is very aligned with Beanstalk
    • There are a lot of risks with the loan, but from a benefits perspective Beanstalk could offer its credit as a product
    • Mod thinks there are two main types of risks, economics risk, and smart contract risk. The smart contract risk would be something like an unaudited contract. An economic risk would be if there is a need for a market like this
    • There is some time sensitivity, the World Cup is right around the corner, hoping to get this proposal out to the DAO soon
    • There can be collateral given to the DAO in the event the loan gets defaulted, but Root is the largest wallet when it comes to Bean exposure
    • The purpose of this loan is to create the most liquid betting market for this event. The end goal is to be able to have large-sized bets be placed with little slippage
    • This is a large-sized loan but it is not intended to be sold in any capacity, it is to be used for liquidity
    • These markets will be in Roots to make use of Beanstalk’s positive carry
    • The loan will be done in good faith, but if this is successful we could make it permissionless in the future
    • If there is no loan, in the short term there will be less liquidity. In the long-term is it unclear.
    • The oracle will be verified by a multi-sig. The details around the multi-sig are still in the works and have yet to be finalized
    • There will be a customized commission, and the commission itself is rent-free. If there is a 1% commission, that 1% is then distributed to token holders that bet before that subsequent volume. Root is calling this bet to earn
    • Root has capital partners they could go to, but it is harder than MisterManifold makes it sound. Going to Beanstalk for a loan is the most positive sum for everyone.
    • If the loan is given and nobody bets, there is no loss of funds it is just a call option
    • Root will be able to take a loan from the general population
    • This could be the first thing to unlock Beanstalk's potential
    • Silo Chad and team have been working on the Beanstalk SDK. This SDK will assist the Root team to interact with Beanstalk
    • Deploying the liquidity will not take very long, as long as the markets are ready
    • MisterManifold is going to circle back with the Root team to see what alpha can be given to the DAO

Operations Update

  • After BIP-28 was purposed, Malteasy found a bug in the code. This has been fixed and shared with Halborn
  • The payment for the first bug bounty went out
  • V1 of technical documentation will be shared soon

Engineering Updates

  • The team is working very hard to ship the SDK
  • A lot of work has been done with the Pod Market V2 UI
  • The team is open to talking about a simplified version of the UI, but the main focus of the team right now is working on multi-level transactions. The SDK will provide the framework for someone else to build a simplified UI

Marketing Update

  • The marketing team launched a new Twitter for Beanstalk protocol (https://twitter.com/beanstalkmoney)
  • Beanthoven released a new song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4eTcW4PCt0)
  • TASC is our PR partner, and Beanstalk Farms uses TASC to help get articles to publications
  • Beanstalk Farms is paying TASC $23,000 a month, half is paid in Beans
  • Beanstalk Farms has weekly meetings and there are a minimum of four TASC employees during these meeting
  • If someone has a better opportunity for Beanstalk Farms please reach out to someone or purpose it to the DAO
  • EggSalad thinks that the DAO can get a PR agency that works on creating content for the amount we are paying

EggSalad’s contributions to the DAO

  • They have never been a part of a DAO but has experience working on a crypto project
  • Their experience in the web 2 world is 20 years as a creative and strategy director for some of the world's biggest creative companies
  • They think Beanstalk needs a creative brand strategy that leads to very progressive messaging and videos. He thinks this should be about how Beanstalk can help the everyday person
  • EggSalad thinks there is a lot of wisdom in people’s heads but there needs to be more accessibility to the mass market
  • The role that they want to purpose is head of brand/ communication strategy
  • From a structuring perspective, it has a blank slate and can do anything we can anything
  • EggSalad thinks that it is best for him to be hired by Beanstalk Farms, a long-term thing is they could make a third-party organization that Beanstalk pays in Beans
  • There are multiple ways to get paid by Beanstalk Farmers these include: getting hired by the BFC, purposing to become a member of the BFC, or using the community grant
  • Another option is purposing a grant from Bean Sprout
  • Publius thinks it is best for EggSalad to become a member of the BFC or purpose a BIP to fund their own organization

Brean’s Beanstalk Coop idea

  • This idea is based on the Liquity Chicken Bonds
  • This idea is still being worked on, but since Beanstalk is built on the Diamond contract.
  • The GitHub repo can be found here (https://github.com/Brean0/Beanstalk-Coop)
  • Brean is looking for someone to help with the UI, and people, in general, to help with this project
  • Publius thinks we can get this audited by Halborn
  • The boosted Bean would be a separate token
  • There is no voting need for this since Beanstalk is permissionless

Sync’s x Hats finance

  • Sync is going to try and get the Hats finance team to come on a DAO meeting to explain what the next steps are and what all needs to be done
  • Mod wants the Hats team to explain the different works streams that will be purposed
  • It is not necessarily Beanstalk Farms' decision on the outcome of what should help, it is up to the community

Depot and Pipeline V2

  • These two things are currently in audit and it is going to take a good amount of time for the audit to take place
  • There will not be able enough time to propose it in time for the World Cup as a BIP, so the plan is if the audit is done in time, to deploy Depot and Pipeline as a separate contract first and then propose it as a BIP in the future
  • There is no need for governance for these contracts


okay I think we can start um GM everyone and thank you for joining us today as a reminder this meeting is for the Dao so it's not free enough for BF or any certain individual uh the format here is open so at any point or any time just unmute yourself and join the conversation um as we usually do we start with bean sprout and I think today manifold may have some news to share with us that they hinted on to likely on Twitter how's it going manifold hey mod uh doing well uh yeah as I'm sure you know everyone can kind of recognize you know we're making a push to have root markets live uh for the World Cup um and so it's been a uh a pretty massive team effort um a lot of Dell members that have been contributing uh to this effort as well as group team members and and some Partners uh what I wanted to there today is and really a concept that we have at root that we wanted to share with the Dow um and you know I'll jump right into it because this is going to have you know potentially infinite follow-up questions and comments uh and you know there's there's a lot of places to take this discussion so you know rather than you know rather than wait I think we should just jump right into it so root is considering proposing to the Dao and application for a loan in which the Dow the Beanstalk Dow meant you know right now it's called it's called a million beans um via a bip the beans are effectively the lent beans would effectively be controlled by a multi-sig uh that root controls and the purpose of these uh loan proceeds would be to provide delta neutral liquidity via Roots into these 2022 World Cup pools that we'll be offering hopefully uh in time now you know the way that we do the economics is that this can be advantageous to the Dow because you know on the senior age that's earned in the interim of the loan on these million beans let's call it we can return 100 of that senior age uh to the Beanstalk Dow so you know earn beans that are generated on the principal alone during the term so there's zero dilution to stockholders uh nextly and there's a real Innovation here that I think can't be understated and you know I'm curious on all the economic minds and the Dow and their thoughts on this uh you know this potentially opens up a path for Beanstalk to lend Capital uh with an incredibly low cost of capital potentially zero percent interest rates if it's positive sum for the Dow to do so and so you know what we are kind of thinking right now via on is you know a revenue share from root Market making in these World Cup pools that gets distributed to the Beanstalk Dow after the event settlement so you know just the first two points to sum up you know a hundred percent of the senior age gets distributed to silo depositors stockholders and then there's a revenue share uh on the market making revenues that the root multi-sig generates that gets distributed to the Dow upon completion of the term the Beanstalk Dow would burn the principal loan the million beans upon delivery of funds um and so just to recap one more time the Beanstalk Dow uh and Silo members would be distributed 100 of the earned beans on the principal uh percentage of the root Market making revenues uh and to stockholders as well um there's obviously you know infinite risks in this you know some of the key ones that I'll highlight that are going to be obvious to a lot of folks are smart contract multi-cig uh you know far false Oracle loss of funds you know errors and execution unprofitable strategies Etc uh just wanted to preliminarily get this out in front of the Dow on this call um you know again there's probably going to be a channel that we need to open up probably today where we can put some of this uh you know on paper and share it but this you know would be a very positive sum Endeavor I think potentially because you know it doesn't cost to Dow anything and now there is a liquid market for the World Cup that root can Market make hopefully profitably uh that attracts not just existing farmers and deposits and whatnot but New Capital because it's the cheapest place to place these bets on chain across any chain uh if you're interested in betting on the World Cup so I'll pause there I know there's a lot um mod I'll defer to you on the on the structure of this call but uh that's kind of the the main thing I wanted to share right now okay thank you manifold I've muted a few other folks so you can just message on the bar in your chat and we can unmute you into others um again you can unmute yourself and join the conversation at any point maybe I'll summarize a little bit of what you said um on manifold and then we can you know open the floor for questions so the idea here is that root wants to facilitate or Market make let's say uh for the World Cup and to do so uh through it you know requires Capital so root proposes to submit a loan application to the Beanstalk dial and then the Beanstalk dial can mint you know beans and and give give that loan to to Market make any signage that it's made from that loan will be 100 paid back to the dial so this means that there is no dilution to stockholders you know during the duration of that of that loan and then any Revenue that root makes from that loan is going to be split uh you know it's going to be some profit share agreement with the Dow and and Andrew is going to share it basically uh with with the means like now this is a timed launch so there is some duration on when the Dow can expect that on to be um and returned and then lastly as you said uh there are some risks uh for that loan you know um and maybe you can share more about what those risks are uh manifold is is this somebody correct totally correct and I would just say at a high level I think this setup works if the borrowing entity is is really uh an aligned entity with Beanstalk meaning you know these this loan isn't meant to be dumped it's not cell pressure um the intention of this loan is to is to facilitate further liquidity within the Beanstalk ecosystem and and utility okay that's clear I see we have a few um messages in the in the binary so let's see okay I'll be in uh says or comments maybe and he says that at first sight the risks seem too far outweigh the benefits however it may be worth doing some some just from the point of view of bootstrapping the first big utility partner um Excel says seeing a big challenge about communicating Roots offering on this so curious about Roots plan for communications on launch maybe we can discuss this a bit and I see harrismith says what's the actual amount of the loan okay manifold do you want to take this one by one yes so let me just get to the Barnyard chat okay uh Lord of Barty what's the bet in size that's great uh okay I'll be uh risks seem to outweigh the benefits so that's potentially true and I think that that's something that each farmer will have to kind of decide for themselves you know I do think that there are you know lots of risk and lots of risks that are totally orthogonal to one another and you know it's important to recognize that uh from a benefits perspective I I do think that this is a specific use case where Beanstalk can really you know offer its credit almost as a product and I I do think that there are certain unlocks here whether that they're not this specific proposal makes sense or the specific use case makes sense for Farmers to think about um and that's the ability for Beanstalk to offer loans at a very little to no uh cost of capital if it's advantageous for the ecosystem so you know it's it's kind of difficult to say if the benefits outweigh the wrists or the Ritz got regular benefits because because that's ultimately an individual decision I think you know from my perspective I just want to make sure that I clearly translate you know what the concept is and then everyone can kind of decide for themselves um but but you're totally right there's a lot of risks so don't want to understate that uh egg salad uh mad you want me to just go down here or do I'm gonna do you want to what's the best way to do this um I wanted to maybe comment a little bit um since we're talking about the risks maybe we can expand a bit uh on it manifold and this is an open conversation here as well so I'm thinking that there are two let's say kind of risks that that we are looking at and and tell me if if there's uh you know another other type let's say one is the economical risk and the other is let's say the smart contract uh uh risk the smart contract Jessica's you know it is that's that's there everywhere so maybe you know something wasn't audited uh or you know whatever risks that come with with the code or you know the protocol itself um the economical risk is what we're looking at right now here is that root is making a market uh so the question becomes is does such a market you know need to be exist and is there a need uh for for for you know a market of that of that source and then how far let's say that economical risk is my understanding is root initially is maybe asking for a million views um so then the maximum risk that we're looking at is that million Dunes so we're having a cap on let's say that that risk and that goes both ways so even if there is you know a contract risk that the maximum risk is also kept at one million Dunes is that correct uh manifold do you agree yeah I think those are both accurate I think what I would add to that is you know there's you know a few other key risks and this is not you know every risk but you know there there's risk on multi-thig or you know social engineering there's there's risk on just errors and execution on the trading strategy there's there's there's risks on you know some to all loss of funds either from an unprofitable like from an unprofitable strategy so you know there's certainly a handful of risks now you know I think when and if root proposes this formally you know I think there's going to have to be another discussion probably that's more in depth I think this one can stay a little bit more high level but those are some of the things I think for Farmers to to think about okay then Excel asks about the communication I understand the truth intends to submit some sort of a proposal and then maybe we'll open uh a channel for it today um is that a question all right I was asking can we expect that so is it expected to submit something maybe today or you know the next few days yeah I think that that's uh appropriate I mean we the other the other big piece here is that there is some time sensitivity um if this this is going to happen there's a lot of moving parts that need to come into play and uh you know frankly we don't have much time I think uh the down the root team and kind of everyone involved is working as fast as they can and as in a safe manner uh with halborn auditing the contracts so uh you know definitely probably need to get this out today um and and hopefully that helps egg salad but you know respect your your your perspective so uh please any feedbacks obviously welcome okay I had a Smith says that you know a million beans are probably not enough I think like I hear someone let me just make sure um okay so the example uh I I love Harry's comments the the example uh that I gave it was just an example uh but you're right you know if uh Lord abarti is looking to come in with 100K on Italy uh that's gonna cause too much slippage if Roots providing the majority of liquidity so we might need to up the loan totally right okay I think the Albion had some comment where they said that he thinks that this is ideal product and agreed this is a real Market um so he says that maybe there should be some rail guards uh put into that and I think we will get more details as you know the submits that proposal Kujo asks would there be any collateral provided to the Dow for the event of the you know that the amount gets defaulted on so you know there certainly can be a world I mean I just think you know speaking candidly uh root is to my knowledge the largest entity or wallet uh when it comes to being exposure so just from a first principle of incentive perspective um it's just food for thought for Farmers to keep in mind now you know if there's some collateral you know that wants to be had I think it's important to recognize that that is you know from the Dallas perspective a great thing you know collateral against loans if you're an issuer is obviously you know a good thing um however you know this is also a stretch from from Roots perspective this is a pretty outside the box idea so there's probably going to be just candidly speaking certain circumstances where it doesn't make sense to do this loan with the Dell um and and just want to you know speak candidly about that so you know I'm obviously things are flexible and this is kind of an ideation phase right now but uh just something to keep in mind okay Becca says I thought root was going to inject liquidity into the system not take out you know Alone um maybe a manifold you can touch on that a bit as well but the purpose is yeah sure I can touch on it so uh it's a great Point batches I mean you know the first thing I would add is most of the liquidity in the system is uh from root so you know I think that that's pretty objectively clear uh that it's injecting liquidity into the system uh but the purpose of this loan is not taking out a large unsecured loan to drain liquidity I think you're looking at it almost backwards uh the purpose of this loan is to create the most liquid betting market for this event such that it facilitates other outside capital and liquidity to come in and place size bets uh without having to incur significant slippage which you know the end goal being the inject liquidating system I think I would go back to my first point in that you know for a loan like this to make sense you know at a high level the borrower needs to be aligned with Beanstalk and this cannot create cell pressure on beans so I think it's important to recognize that while this is a large loan it's not intended to be sold in any capacity it's intended to provide liquidity in a market yeah and one more thing is maybe to add is that root is a generalized Marketplace and its intention is to you know facilitate a market uh in the economy or or you know in a market that utilizes and uses uses beans a couple questions the intention is to make markets in a in in these root markets that are going to be denominated in beans or in Roots the intention is to make these markets in Roots uh such that you know there is no opportunity cost for Bettors uh for for for you know exiting The Silo to make a bet and so the basic premise is that the beams that are Borrowed by root are going to immediately be used to mint root tokens which are then going to be used to provide liquidity in what what is uh and not sure exactly how that would work a delta neutral strategy into this world cup betting market and so as I understand it and correct me if I'm wrong let's just let's just assume and obviously as as you highlighted Mr manifold a lot of things could go wrong uh from a risk perspective but at least from an economics perspective assuming that there's no contract problems or execution issues if if nobody bats meaning root makes these markets and nobody bets then at the end of the World Cup uh root would just return the it would return to being loan to Beanstalk with the senior age and there would be no cost to any parties involved is that right that's correct I I almost think of it as a call option for the down and then just to play that a little bit further if the I'm just thinking out loud here so apologies but if if the for each bet effectively assuming that the market maker in this case root is able to again the delta neutral part is I think what might need to be a little bit better to find to understand what's going on here but assuming that root is able to uh increase its expected value without decreasing its minimum uh return from from these markets in in a way that's either provable or has a high probability to be the case then it would seem that for every bet or you know group of bats in the market and again this is happening in roots that then that would have two separate benefits to the Dow potentially one is that everyone betting in Roots needs roots and so if there's demand for roots to bet in the markets that could translate to demand for beans particularly if it's new money that's betting on the markets and then separately assuming that root makes money as a market maker than any of that profit would get fared with with the Dow is that correct nailed it so the Dow is basically creating these beans giving these beans to the market maker the market maker is trying their best to make the markets in such a way where those two those two things are true one at the minimum return never decreases and two that the expected value increases now because that can't really be enforced at the contract level at this point it seems right like there's no is this is this all going to be done algorithmically or or this would just be done like this is just a loan that then root is taking kind of in good faith yeah so I think I think it's not going to be completely permissionless I do hope that if this model makes sense to the Dow you know um I think some people in the chat highlighted this that you know there can be more you know uh there could there can be more specific parameters uh with these loans via Smart contracts and they can be permissionless but I think this first implementation especially given the time crunch we're under uh would have to be you know effectively trust in the root multi-stick to to go to go execute the strategy uh and and return the funds as it has highlighted and when what would be the the timeline on this loan so you know I think that I don't know exactly when the the tournament ends um but let's just call it December 31st 2022. it seems like a reasonable date uh you know and let's say we can issue the loan at some point next week I know the root token launch is going to be coming up pretty soon so if we can kind of uh you know sync timing there uh but you know this is gonna have to go through a bip and there there's a lot to do here and there's gonna have to be a you know a formal discussion and that's why you know I'm I'm trying to force the issue right now versus weight uh but you know let's call it you know November 10th to December 31st or something like that like just under two months yeah I think the World Cup is uh meant to end on December 18th so end of December sounds sounds about right foreign very interesting so when is it that you think you're going to propose the bib unclear when the actual proposal is obviously it needs to get proposed pretty quickly but I think the first thing that would need to happen is just the channel like mod mentioned and you know maybe maybe a one-pager on the outline of maybe like a term sheet almost um from the Dow to root um and then you know uh farmers can can discuss and see if this makes sense to people I think we can also maybe schedule or have some sort of like an office hours or or just another call when the web is out just in case if we want to have this discussion just give it a short time I think you're okay with that nine fold yeah yeah of course okay I'm going to go through some of the other questions just just address them so Jan's asks what's the alternative if there is no lawn the alternative is in the short term probably just less liquidity in the market uh in the long term it's unclear but you know one of our key what a key part of our thesis is and a key part of you know the reason why root has really chosen the you know to to leverage Beanstalk to make markets is this potential for you know low-costed Capital which off-chain market makers have access to um and if bean stock is able to offer low to zero interest loans or credit facilities to ecosystem Partners or align partners that are helping Drive organic Bean demand uh you know that's a pretty novel breakthrough I think so um I'm not sure if that answers the question I think it's clear so let's let's liquidity or root will you know have to see that liquidity elsewhere let's say correct yeah we'll we'll have to feed that liquidity elsewhere exactly um and I think you know uh as being stock has zero opportunity costs let's say in inventing that then it makes uh it's a compelling let's say uh proposal to the devil I'll be in us I don't understand how there won't be cell pressure what are the beans going to be used for so the loan is meant to again you know Market make or provide a market so people can bet uh manifold can maybe give us a bit more details on how it will be designed by generally speaking the way that this uh when you Market make or in design that market that's meant to be profitable uh as as a manifold said there are some risks uh but this is this is this is how it's intended to be used correct these beans aren't getting sold green asks can you explain how the results of the World Cup will be obtained on June yeah this is an awesome question Breen so the way the way we're building root is such so such that it is Oracle agnostic such that as a you know anyone can deploy a permissionless market that you know is on this as any that that can really customize the Oracle solution from something that's you know fast and centralized to slow and decentralized these markets in order to facilitate you know fast settlement the results are going to be uh effectively uh verified by by a multi-sig so it's not going to be chain link it's not going to be Uma it's going to be a multi-sig and you know full disclosure the details of that multi-sig are still you know we're sprinting here they still need to be uh they still need to be kind of finalized and that's also a key point in the discussion that's coming up but you know the full Oracle architecture that we're building is not ready this is really an MVP that we think has some serious lags uh and that we can nail and and really you know for lack of a better word you know be the main show or factor phrase I should say be the main show on chain for you know three to four weeks if we do this right so um you know the first implementation will be you know uh graded through a multi-sig the the results will be great if they're a multi-sip okay that's cleared syncubate asks if fruit is intended to be zero food where will the revenue Source come from think it's a great question so the way that this specific uh Market is being designed is such that there's going to be a customizable commission and the way that the commission works is that uh the commission itself is rent free so the way that it works is that let every every subsequent better in the pool any subsequent volume in the pool let's call it a one percent peso let's call it a one percent commission this this specific percentage can be adjusted but let's call it a one percent commission that one percent commission is then distributed to uh token holders that have bet before that subsequent volume so that's you know what we're kind of coining as this bet to earn concept uh in which uh the cost basis of betters is continuously going down the more volume that the pool generates such that it actually allows profitable Market making on East L1 which has never been done before for on-chain betting to my knowledge um and this commission is distributed as yield to Bettors there's no rent on that commission the 100 of that commission goes to Bettors and in this case with this specific loan you know a a chunk of that commission would actually from from Roots book would actually be flowing through to Silo depositors hopefully that makes sense thank you manifold Excel asks why is this happening so urgently so the urgency is given that um you know which the World Cup is a big opportunity and you know it's approaching very soon um he asks that you know uh or says that the World Cup has been certain for four years why are we discussing this now I think you know four months ago boomsock itself was a bit uncertain um so we're just printing or the team is printing or going on as as things develop um then Exile it and Tyler be both ask the same question is that ruator is capital so why why can't they use that capital I believe this Capital was using the boundaries but plentiful maybe you can you can shed some light sure so a significant chunk of the capital raised was used in the barn rate now we do have Capital partners that you know we can go to for additional liquidity potentially but that is something that you know is more complicated than than I make sound so uh you know I think in the short term right now this potential Avenue for liquidity seems like the most positive sum uh way to do things from my perspective and and you know uh given I guess where where I sit you know I've kind of evaluated a handful of options and I think like I saw Bree mentioned like this isn't needed like this is an idea uh that you know and to go on the last question uh that we we do have a little bit of a sense in urgency we're Builders here you know we're looking to push things forward uh we could go slower if that's what the doubt you know prefers but I think from our perspective we're trying to push product here in a safe way and and and really make an impact on D5 right now in in market conditions that aren't the best um so so that's just a little bit on that last point but you know I think I think you know root certainly doesn't need this liquidity it can go elsewhere for liquidity potentially uh but this is you know in my opinion just just positive sum for like you know lack of a better term uh you know I think the Dow gets pretty much a call option additional Revenue source and this is a market that we can make incredibly liquid that attracts crypto users that could care less about Bean right Sophocles asks why wouldn't there be cell pressure within the beans be sold for root so the way that the root token would go ahead manifold so roots are simply just wrapped Silo exposure it in short okay so the silo is non-fungible the follow deposits are non-fungible you can't do anything with beans outside the Beanstalk protocol right now because you're forfeiting the yield right so the whole point of the root token the main point of the root token is to facilitate Silo yields and no opportunity cost of capital outside of the Beanstalk protocol so there's no selling this is this is just beans that are wrapped uh Silo exposure effectively and that are erc20s foreign we're at the bottom of the of the Town Hall chat and the last question or comment is from excelled and they asked that it feels that this whole offer depends on how people find out about it uh how many and how it launched this is correct and as um manifold said that let's say for example the loan is given and then no one no one bets sort of that might have been Publius and then no one bets then you know the capital wasn't used or the the loan wasn't put into use correct it's a it's it's a you know if no one bets there's no loss of funds it's just a call option okay I see several people typing so let's give it maybe a few minutes uh give give folks some some time to maybe you know there's just a bit of what we've discussed and see if they have other questions asks um Can the general populace provide funds to route to Market make um I don't really know what general populace means like because you don't have to be specific like you know uh root can't take money from some parties or some people I would assume but like I'm just thinking about this in real time yeah I mean if there is some permissionless contract where people wanted to lend you know funds to some multi-sig controlled by root with certain terms like yeah that could be facilitated yeah I think the value or the um the very proposition here given is that root is able to take um let's say a zero fee or a zero interest loan um if the general populace is willing to land root you know Capital at zero interest that that's probably compelling so maybe just having digested this a little bit from an economics perspective there is a big difference between Silo deposits being used to lend to root and new beans being used to lend to root and the fundamental difference is that Beanstalk has these deposits which are forming the base liquidity of Beanstalk and to some extent there is an interesting notion proposed here between separating the existing Silo deposits whether they're beans or LP tokens because even the beans are being converted into liquidity pool tokens regularly and you don't really wanna necessarily I mean you may want to enforce some sort of restrictions there at the protocol level but it's definitely an interesting idea to kind of bifurcate The Silo deposits which are the liquid capital of the system and then the zero the the zero basis loans where new beans are minted but uh the the because there's some liability attached to the loan the total outstanding being sort of stays the same because root still owes beans so now there's more beans outstanding but there's a an obligation back to Beanstalk of beans I think that's probably from an economics perspective it's certainly more more interesting and elegant uh uh a novel than just using the Silo depositors and then given that it doesn't seem like there's a contract that would enforce all of this happening at the moment Perhaps it is simpler to have the Dow make the loan then dozens of different wallets that are all participating in some sort of profit sharing system although that is something that I think mod has mentioned in previous classes or down meetings probably classes and it's certainly an interesting idea that should get implemented on chain and think that we should probably bifurcate that from the the economics question being posted at least from from our perspective which is whether or not the the Dow should be minting beans and lending them such that the total outstanding beans increases but not when you factor in the liabilities of beans back to Beanstalk kind of interesting yeah and you know independent of uh root I think that this concept uh you know there's a lot there's a lot going on here I agree I think this is this may be one of you know the first things to unlock let's say you know Bean stocks uh potential uh and and you know what else can it can it do Tyler V asks allowing and maybe is touching on the same discussion here it says allowing new beans to be minted for a loan is this something that we want you know it to be built as part of green stock we'll leave that to other comments in my opinion maybe so this could be you know uh the start of it and we see how how that goes and you know what what this bond is like if what it asks a question and he says the World Cup starts in 20 days but there is no root product on test net can you maybe share a little bit of that benefit um I think Silo Chad probably has an appropriate answer so I'll leave it at that okay and I'll read the answer as that root contract is on the Beanstalk repo it has been audited so there is work and the expectation is that there will be something up and running not on not in 20 days but hopefully before before that someone saying that's a non-answer uh so I I don't know what to not answer I mean there's no root product on testnet that's false um you think this idea will offer something to Beanstalk there's a lot of competitors I don't think that's a question I mean it's a personal opinion uh yes I do think it'll offer something I think it's very positive some uh but it looks like one of the questions is an opinion question and another is objectively false guys uh Al just dropped the link to the to the root contract in the Beanstalk repo it's on a branch called Beanstalk v 2.1 which contains a number of upgrades including bip 29 uh and pipelines so uh take a look at it there if you need help deploying it on a local Forks node let me know and I can help you get set up with some scripts uh just for a little context here in terms of the engineering side of things for a variety of reasons the Beanstalk Farms team has opted to use a local Fork node strategy for testing contracts so frequently we will deploy things that aren't uh they're not going to test Nets in the traditional sense and that they're not getting deployed to something like Gourley but they are being tested extensively on local Forks of mainnet which we feel is actually a more secure and aligned way to to do the sort of like testing and Engineering Process so happy to explain any more about that if anybody has questions thank you Chad and since it seems now we're talking about when you know when is the MVP when is this going to go live I think the initial discussion maybe or we may want to focus it on if if being stuck or the Dao uh wants to issue that loan or if that makes sense and again you know from a risk perspective or from an economics perspective and then the questions after that would be all right when are we launching and will we be ready or not my understanding is that the routine um feels and believes that there will be ready you know for this opportunity and hence this is why you know they're coming and applying for that loan right I wanted to jump into uh and add some some context from from my end so uh myself and and some of the other Engineers on the team have been working with this this partner that will be launching the the World Cup betting Market over the past couple of weeks from a number of fronts uh but just wanted to kind of add some reassurance that like you know product efforts are moving forward there isn't you know a product live on a test net that for example everybody here could go could go click click and play with but that certainly doesn't mean that there hasn't been been work happening and we've been working pretty extensively with with that team to help them get online just to give you a sense of kind of the the scope of of how we've been how we've been helping so uh you know on one front we have a pretty sophisticated uh front-end uh engineering team that can has been kind of helping them get their front end Stacks spun up and and you know moving really fast on on getting things deployed so uh so that people can start testing this soon and then in addition to that uh mentioned this in the past couple of down meetings but we've been working really hard on the Beanstalk SDK which will kind of be the first piece of software that helps teams like this into integrate with Beanstalk uh you know and sort of take advantage of a lot of the work that we've we've already been doing over the past the past six months to build the Beanstalk UI so uh albean in particular and I have been sprinting hard on that piece of software and basically getting it ready to help this team Place vets using Roots which also of course involves depositing beans and a whole number of other things so that's in progress and have been working very closely with them to make sure that they're uh they're ready to go thanks Alex thanks Chad James I had a question on maybe he's talking about the specifics on how this betting Market would work um I can read it quickly and then maybe manifold correct or uh or Enlighten us on on how it does so Jan says that you know if an individual proposes uh and let's say they take a one-sided bet and they say you know Italy is going to win the World Cup other individuals you know would be best you know have other bets and then whoever wins you know pays pays the other um so he asks then you know if the batteries are the ones who are providing the liquidity why does root need liquidity I think the answer would be is maybe you know if let's say we're betting on a match and one person you know that's that one team is going to win but there is no other people to bet that the other team is going to win can you maybe explain uh manifold how would that work and then maybe that would answer why do we need liquidity yeah sorry Matt what you just distilled the question down can you just repeat that to me what what you said the question was yeah I think Jan's is saying um um is the betting Market built in a way that uh it's basically just someone betting on the other person you know taking the opposite side of the BET and whoever wins pays uh the other or two got it got it got so this is so this is this is a this is a a this is a pool style look it's so this isn't like uh you know a betting exchange order book that's something that root is working on but is is not this specific Market this specific Market is a pool and you know users are swapping tokens uh from the pool so maybe to ephes that is that betters will be able to bet even if there is no you know in certain person taking the other side of the right I will just come in and I can yeah it's just that totally exactly but uh you know liquidity but gets liquidity and if there's insufficient liquidity the prices won't be as good yeah um I guess this is what you know is you you're carrying the market for the two you know you made your Market making uh that this betting Market yep um Bacchus asks how long my mod I I just have sorry about this man I have a call in like four minutes but I I can take more questions but I have to get off in four minutes all right we'll we'll take back his question and then to others or with us you know um we have four more minutes and if you have other questions drop them and as manifold said we'll have time to take them um you know later on how long will it take to deploy the liquidity can we wait a week or two and see some kind of interface with proof of concept or something it's a good question I mean deploying the liquidity uh can be pretty fast um you know depending on the timing of the bip and the minting of the beans and the transfer of the beans the multi-stig uh the liquidity can be deployed as as long as the uh as long as the markets are ready now um there are still a few things in uh in audit with halborn right now so couldn't do that today but I think the intention would be uh that the liquidity gets deployed uh pretty pretty like right before the the actual World Cup starts uh so I think that's like around November 20th but uh that that's that's the type of timeline we're looking at um to get some kind of interface or proof of concept or something uh you know I'll I'll Circle back with the team and you know see what can be provided right now again like there's a lot of stuff on testnet there's some stuff that uh it's just private right now but you know we'll try to uh you know make some more things public uh as soon as possible um if the if this is something that the Dow wants to consider thanks manifold and I would I'll just add again is that the risk is not in route not being able to launch that market if the loan is given out and then again you know it doesn't launch the market and or launches the market and there is no activity on the market this is not where the risk is further down so what maybe again say let's focus the thinking on you know the economic side of it does this law make sense uh and then you know we can we can ask you know or go on to the other questions of when when will this be ready and when will it launch and once again the World Cup starts on in November 20th the intention is for this to be live before before that so we are short on time especially if we want to give it no thanks Mata I'm totally with you I just I just saw uh the word proof of concept used and uh you know this this is a real proof of concept like this is the proof of concept this this if if this happens in some capacity or some structure like this is a proof of concept for Beanstalk um I think in more ways than anyone on this call can imagine so so food for thought I agree um from multiple ways as well it's a proof of concept maybe you know as a market making uh uh for a betting Market uh it's a proof of concept for the Beanstalk Dao to issue bonds so there are a few things here um that you know maybe it's the first of its kind or it could open again the door for for more opportunities hey guys I just wanted to say thank you for all the amazing questions uh I know you know I dropped a lot on today's call and I know there's going to be infinite more questions after this so I'll Circle back with uh you know the depth you know the Dow and you know maybe we can open up a channel later today and and continue the conversation but this has been a lot of fun and I hope everyone is uh is getting excited for the World Cup uh markets to you know try out uh betting with root uh irrespective of this loan and uh your feedback is always appreciated so thanks guys thank you manifold all right we have 10 minutes on top of the hour but I think we can you know extend this meeting um as long as it means uh if other other conservatives and other of course members are okay with that do you want to go quickly through being so Farms updates awesome can we start with you uh sure thanks mod um hard to follow that up but I'll keep it keep it brief um so a handful of uh yeah that's right Harry Smith um so a handful of updates uh shortly after a bit 28 was proposed uh Maltese caught caught a bug in the code and shout out to them for continuing with the serious diligence both before the proposal uh and after but uh they caught an issue issue that issue has been a fix for that issue has been shared with halborn and hopefully that's something we can uh you know re repropos something like like today or tomorrow um in other news uh I mean sort of related to that you know I'll be working on updates too the white paper for pod Market V2 I think alloceros is gonna going to be working on the updates to the Farmer's Almanac uh uh yeah the number of things to sort of update and maintain every time Beanstalk gets upgraded is uh is always increasing um and yeah just a couple other things that the payment for that first bug Bounty report uh went out uh so it's great to see that process sort of work from end to end we have some ideas about how to how to improve it like how we share bug reports with halborn and such but it's exciting to see that that process fully play out for the first time um what else uh technical docs uh I guess like a first V1 a sort of uh some serious tactical documentation is in review at the moment hopefully that's something we can share a first version of with the Dow in the next couple weeks and yeah uh lots of other projects in flight but I'll leave my leave my update to to that thanks Austin um Chad do you want to give us some of this from the engineering and yeah what's up everybody um nothing too much more to add besides what I described earlier but working very hard on the SDK uh one thing to note about the SDK is that the the work that we're doing to help get this uh Team over the Finish Line in the next week or so is uh also going to be very applicable to other projects that build on Beanstalk of which there's been a number that have kind of popped up recently and will continue to be more uh we hope in the coming months and so if you're thinking about building something on Beanstalk or just curious about sort of the capabilities that this will enable definitely let me know uh you know getting some documentation out is something that we expect to do sort of with a more a more public launch of the SDK right now it's very much you know focused on getting these teams over the Finish Line in the short term but always happy to answer any questions about that so so please just tag me uh beyond that the main effort that we're looking towards is the Pod Market V2 UI which is going to include a complete refactor of the Pod markets interface with a lot of you know new charting capabilities and you know drawing Dynamic pricing functions and that sort of thing um red beans can talk more about the the progress and the sort of reasoning behind all that there but just to get everybody excited you know I think one of the the ways we're thinking about this particular upgrade outside of just uh improving the Pod Market as a whole is also that you know we want to start thinking about what really top-notch uis for you know Advanced markets look like ultimately you know Beanstalk uh hopes to open up many different or enable I suppose many different types of markets and you know there's there's some work that can be done at the you know at the chain level to to enable all on-chain execution of different uh components of markets but uh but in terms of actually presenting those in a clean user interface that also poses a really unique set of challenges so red beans has been working extremely hard to to kind of find uh find all the corners of that problem and and come up with with some solutions that we'll Implement in the Beanstalk UI but I think you know over time those sorts of patterns that we develop and perhaps even did the code and the packages that uh that we use to to build those uis out can be you know a piece of of collateral for the rest of the ecosystem to use so uh I saw I see a question in in Barnyard Chad from from Excel at about uh calls for a simplified UI um you know we we talked a little bit about this a while back and uh and happy to like reignite that that conversation if if folks feel that that's pretty pretty important uh at this time you know our focus is beyond getting the these components like the SDK launched really making sure that the Beanstalk UI has a good coverage of everything that Beanstalk has to offer and I know this has been discussed as well in in chats but but things like doing you know multiple multi-level transactions like uh rinse and and so or something like that are are things that I think the farmers we already have are really excited about uh of course you know over time we'd love to see uh simplified UI is developed to you know either isolated portions of of what Beanstalk can do uh in a really clean way or you know perhaps somebody will launch a you know entirely independent simple I'd UI uh and you know we would support that project uh you know building the SDK and some more things we'll we'll provide some of the the infrastructure for for others in the ecosystem to do that sort of thing so I know that's to some degree uh a non-answer in that we don't really have this planned out from a business Farms perspective but you know if if there's a if there's a contingent of folks who think that this is really important I'd encourage you to uh or anybody to sort of wrangle that together and and help me understand kind of how you're you're thinking about it and and just tag me and I'll I'll give that a review and we can talk more more deeply about what that's something to do right now thank you Chad um and I believe sweetheart beans did you want to add something or the chat covered it uh I yeah I can be brief uh I've you know Chad kind of touched on this but my focus has been mostly on uh getting up to date on the Pod Market uh version two and so this last week has been got some really great feedback towards the end of last week and I've mostly been sort of fixing components and and working on some of the charting micro interactions so excited to share that I think it's it's it's going to be uh it's gonna be interesting it's it's a it's a fun chart it's a fun UI it's it's uh but it's gonna be a lot of work for the for the front end guys so uh over the next day the the goal is hopefully to to get this prototype sort of finished and handed off in the next day or two uh and yeah that's uh that's it for me thank you sweetheart um I can give a bit on a marketing update and then I think some folks wanted to discuss a few things or there has been a discussion uh on a few channels so we can give some time um to briefly discuss it as well or discuss it as much as we want so two uh two quick updates uh the first is um we launched a new Twitter account uh for being so protocol and that's called billion stock money uh the reason being is that we've had instances where um you know people were confused they would want to you know reference to being so the protocol but they would you know reference to it as being subforms and we thought uh that given that means of funds is the one that's active uh and you know the the protocol doesn't really you know do things or say things uh this is where the confusion uh stems from so we will continue to use the Beanstalk funds account as is so nothing changes in the strategy on that end the only difference is that now instead of describing beams like the protocol in the bio of means of farms uh the the bio says that you know being so funds is a decentralized development organization that's working on being stuck you know attacks being stuck the protocol and then uh the the newly launched handle uh what it does basically is adjust shares um the what you call it um you know every season uh summary and then any dips that passes so the way would think about it is that what if the protocol was on Twitter what would it you know what would it post or whatever the tweet and it would tweet you know the hourly updates and then only if there has been a change to the protocol itself so instead of like really launching a new handle what we did is that we renamed or repurposed uh the Beanstalk bot account and now this stands to be the the binso protocol account I hope this is clear to others uh uh or those here and of course we're always happy you know if you have some comments or thoughts on what I call it on this thinking um something else to quickly touch upon is Beethoven released you know one of in my opinion my favorite song uh and that came with a video um we we uh it was released yesterday uh and it uh it had you know let's say one of the highest view count uh for anything that was released in a single day um the intention is that we're going to use the same idea or the same style for that video for the educational content that we're working on um so um we would expect you know when that that comes out it will be more or less within the similar on the same style the last thing that I wanted to touch upon or discuss is one of our vendors or partners and that's the task group so just to bring in everyone uh quickly on on the same page so task is our PR uh partner and you know they we rely on them or we use them when it comes to Publications uh with you know traditional let's say media um just to highlight something as a task is one or PR in general is one of the best uh or one of the things that we do in marketing so it's not the only thing that we do and um and and but they are for them this is what their focus is on them we started working with them right after the exploit um I'm going to put in you know the Publications I think Backus asks for that it was like what you know where where have we been with them or where they help us with them so I I put in I just dropped in the bar in your chat the um the Articles or the uh uh let's say the outlets that we've been uh with them um and then um had had a few comments uh maybe to touch on a bit so I think some of the folks there are two sides of the thinking is that one um you know we're over pairing and this is not the time for us to be paying what we're paying for so what what we do right now with task is that we're paying or agree to them to pay around 23 23 000 uh uh dollars this is this is with half of that is bad and beans and they have uh told us or expressed that you know the green exposure that we have we intend to have it long term so in reality we're like actually let's say when it comes to like an expense of course we're returning half half of that the way you need to task at least once a week so you know we we often meet with them more than once a week and in no meeting that we meet with them is that there is less than four people or four resources sources from their end that are involved and actively working you know on the Beanstalk account I don't think that we are overpaying they are not our first PR uh let's say partner that we work with we we paid more to others for less than what we're getting with them today uh and you know we think we think that we are or I think that they are doing a good job with you know what with what they're tasked to do however this doesn't mean that we will always want to use you know a VR let's say a partner um post exploit we were in what they call you know an emerge in a crisis or an emergency mode uh we we are not on the same level let's say that at n and you know in the future we may decide to do things differently where we are today American Edition is that we still want to go ahead with it but you know we continuously reassess that and we might come to another conclusion on it some other folks said that you know again we're overpaying we we might get you know better opportunities or something that's that's for that I welcome you know all of that to everyone as well who's in the doubt it if you have a better opportunity or if you find that you know we can do something better in that sense please come share it propose it and you know we will obviously take for it or take it um because again you know they're not the first people that we work with and you know we've had you know other experiences as well with it so we think that you know we are in in a good place or in a good spot here but once again nevertheless if you think otherwise and you have other proposals please come and present it and share it with them I hope I hope this answers maybe some of the concerns that uh some of the folks have had but is this is the time for you to you know maybe share some some of your thoughts or opinions on it I'll give it a minute to see if uh some have comments otherwise I'll go to the second topic or the second or the next topic so Excel it says I think we need to put the pr agency up for pitch can you maybe elaborate a little bit on that Excel am I coming through yes I can hear you um yeah I there's just there's just quite a number of um very experienced people that I've worked with before who I think um agencies who would not only kind of do PR work in the more traditional sense of kind of managing more conventional headlines but also generating Concepts and stunts and production items that could be film or other things um for a feed like that and I and I I I'm not convinced based on my experience that we're getting value I think that they've obviously done a relatively solid job and and things have been very turbulent but for for what is to me quite by European standards quite an expensive retainer um I I'm not seeing I'm not seeing whether where their work is coming in that's fair so what I would say again is and and just like because you said that we might get let's say a marketing agency for that amount task is purely PR so they don't do a marketing no no I'm talking about I'm talking about a PR agency but one that doesn't just engage with um just getting articles but actually works on generating content that can generate more PR so kind of like adding in another layer of lateral creativity so that we're not just engaging based on sort of more B2B style headlines but we're actually getting consumer eyeballs and stuff like this sure thing we definitely encourage something like that so what you're saying is great you know if you have a plan or already have you know ones to recommend or you know want to try something like that please do so and there are multiple Avenues on how we can do we can do that um it can be you know part of a grant can be directly with a BFC unless it can be a direct proposal to the to the Dell so I would encourage you of course to you know if you if you think you can do something like that that can be not you know positive and better of course than what we're doing please do so and you know unpresent it cool all right I think maybe my next topic excellent what I have you was was to talk and chat with you because I understand you wanted to you know contribute maybe to the to the Dell but you said that it might you may maybe you were having a bit of a challenge on on how to present that uh and me and you just yeah I mean yeah just as a by way of introduction I may call me old school it's been it's just been I've been in touch with lots of the team um obviously I've well not obviously I've I've consulted on crypto projects before but never been kind of part of a of a Dao um and obviously everybody's been massively up against it this last well eight eight months or no yeah seven eight months um but yes I'm I'm kind of a near two decade experience Creator director and strategy director who's worked um in a lot for for some of the world's biggest creative companies um and I've had experience both managing my own business founding fintech companies being head of brand of fintech companies and and managing Big Brand strategy pieces and I'm also I also have a huge interest um in alternative economical models and alternative political systems um and so Beanstalk is Kind of Perfect uh it's a sweet spot a friend got me interested in it and then I've set about learning um despite having a nearly failing a degree in economics I uh had quite an uphill struggle to get my head around it but finally did um and I think there's a lot of potential here and I think right now I you know I can commend the team for for basically having a very solid base to work from but but I think now we're back up and running on the site so good um and we've now got a kind of a bigger team which is seems to be kind of work quite well oiled I think the opportunity is really to get together a proper brand creative brand strategy which is this as I indicated in kind of my document and some chats we've had a um something that that actually leads to very very Progressive and radical messaging video content you know um editorial coming out of Beanstalk that again doesn't just report on certain happenings around the farm but really tries to lead the conversation about what a new money can be how Bean kind of plays into especially the economic circumstances I think most people are facing which is a huge cost of living crisis um quite quite dramatic changes in inflation and interest rates um and I but basically like I'm I'm massively inspired by the brains the intellects and the effort of the people here um and I think we could do a a better job the kind of stage two uh job in communicating that to the general public because I I want to see a lot more growth I think there's a lot more potential for some really serious growth again um that won't just have to happen organically that we if you know if we're in a position to Mint beans and do these kinds of things then we we're in the rare rare position of being able to sort of fund our own startup in a way and and really make some radical and differentiated decisions so that's my that's my pitch basically uh thank you Excel then you earlier dropped um let's say a small maybe presentation so I just referenced to it uh in the in the download or sorry the bar in your chat um um I'm So yeah so this is sorry I was I was reading guys uh comment um so this is some an introduction let's say to the to the Dow so maybe you know members understand a bit of more uh or more of what you want to do exiled um I'm happy to take this conversation or to discuss it later my only take I guess would be is you know depending on how uh or or how being so Farms right now functions so there is no direct way of someone you know to come and say Hey I want you to do one two three and do them and and that will be judged on it the way that we are today is that you will come and be like hey I want to do one two three I want to be like okay go ahead and do it um so if you and I believe it seems that you have some sort of a plan in that way that you know I think we can do one two three better or we can do four five six and that way uh present it say that this is what I want to do I'm sure that you will have my support you will have the support from the BFC you'll have the support from the community and source of a grant or you can have also you know the support of the Dow itself and just like a applying for for the proposal itself so I'm happy to have this conversation later I see that you've shared your experience and then you might have some ideas on what you want to do maybe we can tie it a bit you know more just details and understanding exactly what you know and it could be things that are already being done so you can say hey I want to take the social media channels and I do you know such and such with them uh or that hey I want to manage maybe task you know because I can know what to do with PR with them or I want to onboard another PR agency or so on so maybe just not quantify detail out what what you have in mind and what you want to do and I'm pretty sure that you'll have the support you know from me from and the rest of the team and finally the hold down yeah I do hear you um I I think I must have not communicated myself properly because I think there is one fundamental task that needs doing that I that I have seen no evidence for which is I think there's an awful lot of information um wisdom in people's heads right now around the farm and particularly um in some of the more founding members and my intention is I think what's happened is that we've built a very interesting and uh Progressive product but what's happened is the in if we're looking for more growth that it has to be something that has more appeal and accessibility to the mass market and so when I talk about my main goal being developing a brand strategy that's the that's the a that I would start by doing and would would propose to take you know part-time something like four months to do that where I would interview stakeholders I'd interview people in the community I'd set up a channel to jam this out with anybody else who wanted to contribute and then what we would do is we would actually have a sort of more of a Silicon Valley level type of kind of five-year strategy for how we what we are going to become how we're going to become it and and how that how the language that we use how the partners that we use how that fits in with business to business Partnerships because obviously there's a huge there's a huge way in which integrating being into other things is very key you know what do the pitch documents for that look like what's the vision that we're selling so really it's like a head of brand roll this is the thing or it's a head of communication strategy role it's something that would entail an awful lot of deliverables that we'd probably find out more and more every week that we were working together but it's I think this is this is where I where you say well we can talk or you can have a grant or you can do this class request an egg salad because I think this is amazing my question for you is do you think that this makes sense to do within Beanstalk Farms or do you think this makes sense to do as a separate organization that you can found that is ultimately going to have a website and put out all these materials and resources that may you know be symbiotic to be inside of farms but from a structuring perspective we you know we have a blank slate we can do whatever we want so what's the like if it's up to you you seem motivated you seem like you know what needs to get done you seem like you've got ideas and want to go do them like how can we all collectively best enable you to go do what you want to do um I need to keep the lights on and I actually don't know I will confess my ignorance like I know I'm I'm a kind of a classical hyper focused artist I know how to do what I do very well and then and then certain blind spots the the actual Frameworks for how this gets done and some of the organizational part of the doubt does I found it difficult to get my head around I I would say that it would probably be on the surface of the two the two options you just said it would probably be more focused for me to just be a a member of what I think is is being stalk Farms or be working or freelancing for Beanstalk Farms um because otherwise then I mean the other opportunity would be that I could become with anyone else in the community who wanted to be involved I could become a kind of a like a defy branding agency that was that was paid in beans that we could do you know help people's other projects out but I would say that would probably be like a year two year three idea and what we really need to do is build like a massive case study for that with bean and then go all right well this team of experts is available for hire and you can pay us in beans um and there's then some type of margin or or cut that feeds into in into being liquidity I I I may I'm a very good um branding guy and a kind of a shitty businessman if if I can confess to you so well we can't all be good at everything you know so exactly I mean Thinking Out Loud here and curious for what members of the BFC think and other members of the doubt thing but from our perspective maybe it makes the most sense for you I mean let's review what are the different things that you have available to you maybe I don't know if guy is around but maybe guy has a mean comprehensive understanding that that we do at this point but if guy if you want to chime in and just start describing all the different ways otherwise we're happy to um I'll pause for maybe a sec just to give you a chance go ahead sure I was responding a couple of brain's questions so I wasn't fully tuned in but the question is just like what are the different ways to contribute to being stuck in some capacity from Top there's like 10 different ways that that this can be constructed so before maybe we talk about what's the way for end style to do what he wants it would be just constructive to kind of lay out what are the different options and resources uh yeah sure so if the question is like how to get paid uh primarily how to get paid to work on Beanstalk uh I guess there's primarily three so each of the current Beanstalk Farms committee members has discretion over the budget and hiring other contributors uh proposing to be on the Beanstalk Farms committee is permissionless and that would just be a proposal to the Dow to have say over you know who can be hired how the budget is used uh things like that so that would be one option the other you know it sounds like uh your focus is mostly marketing so uh if the goal is to be hired by the Beanstalk Farms committee I think you know a discussion with Mod would probably be uh an appropriate first step uh in which case you know three people on the committee would have to uh vote to hire a given contributor uh otherwise the process for like one-off grants or contract work whatever we want to call it exactly uh isn't super formal but as mentioned the the BFC has discretion over the budget so there's been a handful of cases where uh you know folks from the community or other people have been uh I guess quote unquote contracted out to work on you know specific scope projects for some uh number of beans um so those would be like the main three options I suppose another one would be uh I'm not sure the complete scope of what you're interested in working on but you know a grant from bean sprout uh is something that has also been done in the past for specific projects although that's mostly uh you know starting like new projects or initiatives on top of Beanstalk so hopefully that summary helps a little bit and happy to answer any questions or you could propose a bit even mint eggs I need I need more stalk for that but uh but I thank you thank you for the summary of options um I think to be honest what I would ask is is I do I have been I do feel a little bit bounced around and I think obviously because this hasn't been a priority quite so fervently as developing uh it's probably worthwhile that some of the core members get together and decide what's best for bean because I'm actually as much of a um as difficult as I as I sound like in in some of the forms I'm actually very accepting of of different circumstances and can work with you so I I actually don't know I don't know what's the best way um it doesn't sound like at the end of the day there's going to be a great deal of difference so I can I conflict yeah go ahead if you wanted to share something I can see a little bit on the general ideas of like how that was it and E5 Works in web for instance like that get a lot of doubt there's a lot of things and generally speaking it's not a whole lot of like oh I want to have this job and then we will decide as the job progresses or we will start to build initiatives and stuff like that generally speaking when Dallas when they decide to do things because it's all token holder voting then the tokens to see actual responsibility so the best thing I found is that if you want to get paid from a job there's two possibilities you you design an entire proposal and you say like oh this is exactly exactly what I'm going to do I'm going to build this thing and it does this and it's going to cost probably about this much money and that can a range it can be an adjustment right or whatever it is that you plan on doing or the other office opportunity is you just build those things and then say like look I've done this now please you know recuperate me some of my losses now it's very untraditional like it's not something you get independence like salary Tech job but this is kind of the way most of the Dows aren't working and this is how I found to be the most successful if you want to try to get paid by uh by Dallas and so forth thank you Caesar and I would like Echo what what Caesar said is again where where we are right now or at least uh how we're looking uh at let's say in business and maybe not all of the instructors but specifically with the marketing is that we we don't have or I don't have some sort of like hey uh I want you to do one two three and I'm like managing you know you to see if you're doing the three um it's more of uh that you know I have a plan to do this and you know uh we can facilitate or help you with the with the tools and the things that you need to be done but we want you to go and do it um so if you present a plan and if you have an idea and it could be across anything uh that you know we think it's as positive come and do it but if if the question is or you know I I want a job and I want you to tell me what to do this is where you know not we're not in the position no no this is this is where this is where the discussion becomes slightly circular because I think now at this point I think most people in this conversation have probably heard me say the same thing twice and I'm not talking about you tell me how what I do but you tell me yes yes so hang on obviously you know there's there's a way in which different Tech products can be built ahead of time and delivered this is a this is a thing that needs in my view is that there's an intellectual task that he's doing that is essentially really the way I often talk about what it is that I do is that there is a level of contemplation that doesn't happen a lot of the time in a very fast-moving organizations that is essentially what strategy is okay so strategy being different from completing different objectives every week being very very very different from how we develop software how we develop the Strategic framework for a business and the language around that is something that I can understand certainly to maybe people who are much more used to sitting in front of a code base looks sort of wishy-washy or looks uncertain but what I am fundamentally saying is I will be the head of brand at the head of brand Communications or the head of brand strategy for a period of time that that sounds to me sorry to interject like you should propose to the Dow to be on the BFC okay or if not if you don't want to work with Beanstalk Farms directly but it seems like you do and it seems like you're you know doesn't seem like any reason not to you could also propose to the Dow a bip to Mint beans to fund your own organization or you could propose to be in sprout a grant for beans to fund your own organization so like I think the last question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want to work through Beanstalk Farms or not and if so just write up a proposal to the Dow this is why we need a head of brand and you know just do it the whole the whole thing and I think it's been so constructive to run through all of this but the whole system has been designed at least as we understand it to make exactly what's happening right now possible such that you want to go do something go do it what's the best way you're saying other people are getting in your way you just want to do it yourself boom like there's a lot for me very much to me the the clear answer seems to be the fact that I actually I I am also you know this is not I think one of the one of the jobs that what I'm talking about is is someone who brings a sort of a strategic linguistic philosophical cohesion to the team as well so it would be very much a question of working within being stalk Farms so the fact is um you tell me where I make that proposition do I write a keynote and post it in general I obviously you know I could do a bit it just seems like if I don't have to get one percent of stock together to accomplish the same proposal I won't first off it's point it's point one percent I don't mean it's one percent uh I point one sorry foreign but um I think guy can probably you know guy is very familiar with all those processes and I bet you guys can figure out how to best propose that to the down the fashion cool all right thanks for everyone's time this is great thank you egg salad thank you Excel and I hope you know we address or touched upon some of some of the things that you wanted to discuss and happy again to to take this you know later with me or maybe you know with other members that you see at fit uh fit for that okay um do we have any concerns or comments from other members because I see you're in the um you're with us here and I think you had some concerns maybe earlier the this cover uh you know your questions or do you have do you have other comments or thoughts okay all right um maybe we can give it a minute see if others have other things to discuss and you know whether it's marketing related or to anything that we've discussed earlier into their score or something that we haven't discussed so let's give it a minute and see you for example some some thoughts to share I do have I have a question about uh converting um the other day I was just fidgeting around and I I saw that the bean was above Peg so I I just tried to convert my siled beans into a 3 CRV and the transaction just failed so I'm wondering if it was because the Delta wasn't high enough or but like when it's below Peg it doesn't even it literally tells you you cannot convert now right so it actually allowed me to send a transaction but then it failed so I'm wondering I didn't want to keep sending it because I didn't want to waste gas so I'm wondering if anybody knows or if there's something I'm missing there um maybe others can give you some more details but my understanding Caesar is that there is a bot that tries to sandwich convert um what they call it transactions so one way to maybe overcome that is to use a flashbot bring in share the few links so maybe he can you know tell you more more about that on how to bypass you know the bot that causes field transactions yeah that makes sense like I just use like flash or flashbot or PC and give it a try again I just I did it one time it failed and I was just okay I'm not going to keep trying this right so it sounds like a good strategy and that's not to keep trying when it when it failed okay anything else yo hey guys uh I'm doing all right how's everything with you great so I have something to share how my side project I've been working on for the past week uh I've been interested in the liquidy pawns right from liquidy the chicken bones and you know if you haven't looked at the white paper I think you should look at it it's pretty cool stuff but uh looking at their protocol and just for context you know it's cool that liquidity is a Moodle protocol and you know because of that you can't really develop on it so it's really pops a liquidity team to develop something on top of liquidy and you know still retain that new ability but uh essentially what happens is that they have this new token called boosted LUSD and that gives enhanced leverage yields right and they do this by imposing an opportunity cost by uh when you when you get the token so looking at them you know it's based on the fact that the liquidy pool or the liquidy protocol has a organic yield source which is the latest stability pool and you know me thinking yo the bean stock also has a branded yield source with the bean scenerys right so uh I've been working on this bad boy right here I'm calling it The Bean stock Coop because you know chicken coop but essentially it's chicken bar chicken bonds generalized for Beanstalk uh I'm not done yet I just started I got to do but uh because Beanstalk is on it's on a diamond standard it's much easier to add composability so for example liquidy has to uh use external protocols like B protocol and urine's convex bolt in order to sell the yield back to LUSD Beanstalk yield is not only you know organic but it's also in Bean so a lot of you know logic there is simplified there uh we they also have the like Amos which allows people to convert LP to you know b or LP to like LAUSD and LAUSD to LP you know based on the price and you know that seems pretty familiar right that's the convert function so you know I was like okay let's just do this you know yellow so this is not done yet I still got a lot of stuff to do I would like to make this a bean sprout thing because I would like to focus on building stuff on Beanstalk itself but you know it was definitely a starting point uh some other things to consider is that I have no I don't need a front end for this uh and it's not gonna be odd it's kind of gonna be YOLO not sure we can do with it but you know I just leave it out to the open uh I'm gonna post a beanstalk idea post on the mean stock right here we could probably we could probably try to get it audited through throughout all right let's go that's hype okay but yeah sorry to interject I know there's been some process on like permissionless access to album and there's a question around funding all that stuff in the audio but we can try to use this maybe as a proof of concept to to figure that out thank you guys that'd be awesome but yeah so like it's really cool a lot of yeah a lot of logic can be uh simplify significantly uh I've talked about the liquidity team uh they think it's dope too they would like some I guess core members that have been stock of Team stock team whatever that really means to talk with them uh ideally you know I don't want to kind of copy this and then you know just make this not useful to liquidy so I would like to like convert or whenever we enable uh the wells with stable swap formula I would like to like use the permanent liquidity here to fund the bean LUSD pool right in the B3 curve but you know that's all conversation for the future uh but yeah what do you all think can someone help please I think this is a very exciting uh brilliant uh definitely world I mean manifold unfortunately love the call but definitely worth a discussion with being sprout oh yeah so yeah also than that yes sweet red beans please I need help you I hope it was just me I'll put HTML with four times the realm attacks and I know you guys don't like that so and also we need uh Beanstalk I mean sorry liquidy chicken bones also has a on-chain dynamic nfts which is really cool right and I would like to do that too with Beanstalk related stuff but uh yeah I personally find it cool because not only so essentially the tldr and chicken bonds I recommend reading the white paper because it's kind of a doozy but uh you know over time because of like market dynamics it accrues this permanent pool and then that's how it kind of perpetuates you know enhanced yield you know not only do we compound the yield from beans but we also compound the yield from stock so you know it becomes this entity this protocol you know it's an entity that kind of uh you know keeps growing and yield itself so pretty cool stuff in my opinion it is cool and what's cooler is you know seeing seeing individuals uh building and taking initiative and doing what you're exactly doing probably do you want to say something I feel like I cut you off no I was just gonna say it might even be cool it's a wrapper for root token or tokens yes so currently it is current implementation of some people change please if you guys have any ideas let me know but right now when you deposit the token you gain your you know you keep your principal if you chicken out which means you like forfeit your yield but you keep your growing stock as well so the only thing you lose is the opportunity cost with earned beans and you know there's a lot of you know economics you think from this right let's say let's say beanstalk's under Peg for a long period of time so there's no yield right so then you can deposit your being in the design into it is a true protocol you won't lose anything if you think it's going to be underpaid for a Snicker it's significant amount of time and then you know get your boosted yield tokens for essentially zero opportunity cost or let's say you don't even want to Mint these boosted Bean tokens let's say you want to speculate on the demand of the future yield of being you know it's kind of like Leverage yield leveraged speculation let's say you think the yield's gonna go up you just buy the boosted Bean tokens you know let's say you want to go down you just you know you sell it or whatever you know a lot of cool stuff I feel all right excellent excellent stuff be intent I have no intent I I just thought it was cool uh you know I just want to you know see I thought this was cool I got being stuck this seems real relative not relatively simple as something that sounds like an entertainment but it seems possible to build this um Beanstalk you know I wanted to see how easy it is to you know uh what's called built on top of Beanstalk and here we are you know the Intel can come later I guess but ideally it would have a bean LUSD somewhere can I jump in here and ask a couple questions I kind of like this idea I'm quite familiar with the the chicken bonds as well like well in the sense that you know I've been my I've done my research I've done a video and that's about it right um so are you suggesting that people will then take their beans put it into the coop The Coop will then Silo it compound like harvest the the seeds and the uh the Sprouts all the time and then just keep compounding those in so then people don't have to compound that now when when they use their beans to enter the coop then they're they're gonna get a bond and that Bond sits with them and if they decide at any times hey hey I don't want to do this anymore they can sell the bond like like chicken out right chicken out of the bond get back their beans right and the the what you would call it the the seeds and the Sprouts that are that they should have and having at that time right but they've they give up those those yields that they were that you had compounded for them in that Vault or after some time they Chicken in and you give them it's like the wrapped boosted beans token but this is the part that I don't quite understand like what is this this boosted beans token is just going to be selling on an LP just in an LP like it's not enough like is it you know what I mean this is the part that I'm missing a little bit because I understand how the liquidity boosted liquidity works and it's not LUSD anymore it's no it's it's a it's a wrapped kind of LUSD that's in a pool with LUSD so it kind of stays on peg in that sense well it's never supposed to be pegged like because it's interest bearing but well that's why I suggested it might it might make sense to to wrap root tokens which has its own zero fee way of generating some yield and so you you end up additional Guild generation on top of the silo unit so for the first question how USD does it they have a b LUSD paired with lusd3 curve on the curve right and so that's how you get liquidity there I'm not sure is that is that what you're asking and they get that and they incentivize that because of a chicken and fee so there is liquidity there yeah yeah so it's like that's it like Leo the boosted Bean or the boosted LUSD it's not actually LUSD anymore it's a completely different token it just happens to be with that and its yield comes from the LUSD or the the bean so this is kind of part where I like where would how would this boosted Bean fit back into the silo or into the Beanstalk system by itself it would kind of be a separate entity in that senseic it would be like another token right that's just that's the point actually to build stuff on top of means that's why you know this should be a beans this is why I kind of run into it being Sprout because bean sprout is still about development on top of Beanstalk whereas Beanstalk Farm is development of lean stock itself so yeah this should be a token that's external to Beanstalk Farms or being stuck a protocol it shouldn't be developed by Beanstalk farmers at all so like I mean there is an option to like let's say we do include it in Silo not sure not haven't thought about that too much you know there is I feel like there's some circularity there I haven't done about too much but you know this guy this guy's limit you know there's like the idea for the most part I'd have to really dig deeper into it but you know it's not really I don't have a ton of voting power but I do have some but I like your idea and anywhere that in my opinion anywhere that would like be able to give beans a use case like where people can be like oh I can if I buy beans then I can do this or if I earn beans then I can do that then all of these kind of aspects are what I think is the most important thing for any kind of stable coin protocol is to make a use for that stable coin to be used somewhere like whether it's spent or or something right for sure uh just a note there's nothing to be voted for I don't think like I guess there's something to be voted for really like whether or not let's say the Dow hates this idea like we I can still build it you know it's just a part of the information list I don't think uh there's not much I mean I guess if being strong wanted to funded I'm not going to ask for funding this is more of a side passion project you know if like we want developers veeam Sprouse won't developers sorry then yet I could do that uh if they don't they don't we just guess developed slower you know but obviously my priority is developing on the farm itself rather than on top of the farm so you know let's say 20 of my time is voted for this Coupe idea you know just a little bit slower but uh yeah I get you you definitely want more use cases on the farm and once again this is a very cool and very inspiring um thank you beta I know we're now almost two hours uh in this meeting but I think I think you wanted to share uh some some some stuff from your end on your proposal or your idea hey thanks mad yeah do you hear me all right I I can hear you great yeah I don't want to take too much time um I already gave the presentation a few weeks back um so if you want to listen to that dial call I think it was two Thursdays ago um but under the Beanstalk ideas Channel I posted um an idea several weeks back about revisiting the April exploit um so you know this is full circle coming with an update to the Dow for that um I collaborated with the team over at has Finance they kind of run a decentralized bug Bounty platform similar to immuneify and others um and hot Finance team um and I worked on the draft bib we share that with the community a few days back and um ma reached out to me earlier today and uh invited uh the hats Finance team to come on one of the subsequent Dow calls so I'm going to try to see if they can come on for maybe next week's call hopefully if not shortly thereafter at the latest um and give you guys an update um on the more maybe technical uh explanation of the proposal and what it would entail and you know some of the very the various moving parts and um potential next steps so that's all I really have thank you sync and I think maybe from from your ideas and and maybe guy can help us in this a bit is what are what are the next steps as you said um if you think um that you know maybe the the hats uh Team coming in here will explain it a bit more to the dial which I think it's clear to the Dao you know what what the proposal is and you would like to proceed you know with it uh to see you know uh for folks or uh farmers can start voting on it um then you know let us know or let guy know and I'm sure they can they can help you with moving this proposal forward sounds good thanks mod yeah it is a question of there's two proposed work streams in the bip if you guys get a chance to look at it um and the the overarching question I think for for me and the hats team as far as Next Step would be um whether the community if they're supportive of moving forward with this in some manner whether it would be preferable to Simply focus on the first work stream or um you know tackling this with the two proposed work streams together so um that's a question for the community and I think uh having uh the hats Finance team present what their vault programs um offer would provide potentially more clarity on the proposed second work stream before you know a final decision is made so yeah I'll definitely take you up on that um hopefully the hats team can come on next week's call sounds good and me just one last thing to add uh to comments on this topic and maybe just like a reminder for all um Bill stock ferns is not the community and is not the Dell um so there was a comment when I said that you know business forms this proposal is for the Dao and it's not for being so France and the intention there is that you know it is it is not that Beanstalk Farms decides what the community you know thinks or wants business forms goes through the same effort let's say that you know other or any anyone who wants to propose a proposal to the uh where you go through it again and then in the end that stockholders that vote nevertheless being so forms as part of the of the Dao so it is you know uh um um the sale would be expected or it makes sense for community members to seek visa forms help in moving let's say proposals forward or to help them facilitate you know the discussion around that proposals but the point that I want to make is that it is not been so far as decision or where to Signal let's say you know where a proposal maybe even so funds can come together and say that hey we as a team think one two three uh but it is not you know again that's their decision or their thinking on on on where you know how how how the community should Vote or or what what what is the outcome of uh of that vote other members are here they can shut uh maybe some more information or share their opinion or thoughts on that uh probably as you're also here um you can also you know let maybe the community think on how to present and maybe you know should they be discouraged as being so fans uh is not interested in a proposal if the Beanstalk foreign steam thinks some way about a proposal should that you know make community members think uh in one way or another uh or discourage them or encourage them and you know to submit proposals or not I mean it seemed like a little bit of a rhetorical question mod to be pranked but if you're asking us the answer the answer is obviously no people should not be discouraged so if anything was thinking while stink was talking that the the facilitation of the bip as mod said it got reach out to guy and you guys can propose the bib that's really how Beanstalk Farms stood work from our perspective where anyone that wants to do something you know if there's a little bit of grief that is needed because there's a a lack of technical knowledge or lack of understanding about procedure Beanstalk Farms is an open resource to help facilitate that that's very different than as you're suggesting mod that when people reach out to Beanstalk or reach out to the community that Beanstalk Farms has an obligation or should uh be uh you know making judgment or passing judgment on everyone that comes to the community in fact there's a very good argument to be made that that's not really the role of Beanstalk Farms per se and that it's better not to not to to wield such a a wide brush with you know uh when to welcome people when not to welcome everyone's everyone everyone's welcome Beanstalk pharmacist is designed to help anyone that wants help building stuff around Beanstalk and Beanstalk Farms can't help then bean sprout is designed to get make sure that you have resources that you can go create whatever you need so uh this is something that's come up a couple of times in this down meeting in particular and feel like it's very constructive to talk about it more and more uh particularly as there seems to be lots of different ideas floating around and people wanting to do things and build things which is insane and amazing and just totally we should all be thrilled and encouraged by it and in short if there's still a lack of resources and structure such that people can't do things that they want or propose things that they want uh in a permissionless manner people should raise their hands and and highlight that there's a problem in our our Collective procedures because everything is really designed to be as open and decentralized as possible so uh yeah to your point I know there was a little bit of tension uh perhaps raised or friction uh I don't know what you want to call it it was certainly a candid uh uh discussion had about what's an appropriate way to receive uh third parties in this instance and hopefully hopefully it's very clear that everything is open but that Beanstalk Farms is really designed to be Greece and if anything neutral Greece not not necessarily uh Greece with an agenda so uh yeah not hope hopefully that's uh constructed thank you Publius and I think that is is clear so I would just add on the uh the bip proposal process just for everyone's uh awareness um I think what was approved via governance is that after the a Discord channel is open for discussion that a bit would need to be proposed within uh two weeks I believe are the current parameters and just uh you know had a chance to skim the the channel it seems like there is like an implementation Associated uh or required for for the bip so I mean you know sync probably maybe it makes sense to to wait until that's a little bit more further developed and uh you know socialize the proposal and implementation with the community but to publius's point you know uh it's really meant to be as permissionless as possible and if someone really wants to say like hey I really want to open this uh bip discussion channel uh today you know uh we'll do that you know unfortunately it requires a Discord moderator at the moment but you know hopefully over time we can come up with more uh permissionless processes for things like that and then just on a personal level I I still you know uh haven't had a chance to like uh really read it in full but you know hoping to set aside like an hour or so to read all the all the posts in the in the Forum Channel and uh and the bip as well and uh provide some thoughts so hopefully that provides some clarity on what the what the process actually looks like but uh always happy to answer questions and if any of that's unclear or you find it's undocumented uh definitely want to fix that so let me know no thank you for that yeah thank you for that and um I think if you when you get a chance to look at the thread you'll maybe have better clarity about my uh interest in BS uh you know um scrutiny of of The Proposal specific to the last question uh or post I made in that thread pertaining to the proposal and um some lingering questions I had um that are perhaps most better at best addressed by BF If This Were to proceed in some manner thank you sync and and thank you guy um not for taking us through um the way to propose okay um I think we're almost two hours in now I'll give it a minute maybe to see if uh there's anything else to be noted or discussed before ending this code uh one thing to just maybe point out is that Depot and pipeline V2 are under audit but it seems like the audit is going to take sufficient time and obviously we don't want to rush anyone such that uh there won't be time to propose Pipeline and Depot as a bip prior to uh the the World Cup stuff starting as it's as it's planned and in short Pipeline and Depot will facilitate all the the betting to happen and lots of other stuff because it's so generalized to happen in a single transaction which we think is really cool and exciting and if people are going to be using Beanstalk Tech we'd love for their first interaction with it to be a a seamless user experience the the hope is that if the audit is done in time to deploy Pipeline and Depot as a separate contract uh first uh and then uh at some point shortly thereafter also propose it as a bip uh to Beanstalk to incorporate it directly into the Beanstalk Diamond but just wanted to kind of shout out that that's perhaps a little bit of a distant different precedent uh prior to most of the previous upgrades to to being stalker the Beanstalk ecosystem and uh just just uh just kind of raising awareness but that's uh well underway thank you for for the update obvious I guess we can take the last question by guy and he asks how would those contracts be governed prior to be able to be in stock so there's no requirement for governance and in short because it's just a a permissionless contract that you'd use and doesn't hold any value that that contract could be deployed uh once and then when a new version exists it could just be uh deployed as an upgraded version there's no need to to upgrade Pipeline and Depot itself you can just deploy a new version of it so hopefully uh that answers why there's no need for governance for these contracts so they'll likely be immutable okay I think this answers the question uh yes thanks okay um thank you you know everyone uh for joining us today those who are still with us uh on on those who aren't um yeah uh with that uh thank you again for joining us and you know we'll we'll see you next week's uh doll meeting uh otherwise I believe uh a big chunk of this discussion was uh uh Roots proposal so I believe that they will post maybe I'll open a channel uh to continue that discussion uh uh there and if we see deemingly feel that you know maybe it requires another meeting of that sorts uh it could it could happen or we it may take place all right thank you everyone for joining us and we'll see you next week