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DAO Weekly Meeting #37

Date
September 15, 2022
Timestamps
00:00 Intro • 00:52 Bean Sprout Updates • 04:27 Marketing Updates • 05:01 Operations Updates • 05:52 UI Updates • 11:49 Merge Update • 13:09 Discussion of Business Built on Beanstalk
Type
DAO Meeting

Recordings

Notes

Bean Sprout

  • The Seraph legal review is done and the agreement has been signed. Just working on a few small things regarding execution.
  • Waiting on the final audit report for BIP-24. Hopefully next week we can formally propose it to the DAO.
  • Max Sow is seeking a Bean Sprout grant for some e-commerce research that he will be presenting on today.
  • There will be some time for community discussion before it proceeds to Snapshot voting if it seems appropriate.

Marketing

  • Podcast with Brad came out.
  • Recorded an AMA with Halborn which will come out soon.
  • Started talks about the poker tournament.
  • Been doing some work on the education videos.

Operations

  • Working on getting the bug bounty running. Hopefully we’ll have a BIP write up to share with the DAO before next meeting.

UI

  • Working on refactoring the Balances page. Close to having a V1 finished.
  • Also been working on the new Silo token page.
  • Fall theme is being worked on.
  • APYs were released over the weekend. Still need to be added to mobile.
  • Working on the farmer overviews at the top of the Silo page, to see things like Stalk balance over time.
  • Added more data about deposited tokens to the Silo UI.
  • Marketplace activity table is in the works.

The Merge

  • The Merge happened and the multi-block MEV fix (minting cap) is live. So far, so good.

Business Built on Beanstalk

  • Max Sow presented an idea for an e-commerce Bean marketplace where farmers can buy everyday products with their Beans.
  • Working name for this right now is Farmer’s Market.
  • The problem is Bean holders want real world utility. They want the option to purchase real world products with their crypto. That is true not just for Bean holders, but across the crypto ecosystem broadly.
  • The thought is to have an e-commerce store which offers about 10 everyday goods that are purchasable with Beans to start. Those initial projects that are listed will be drop shipped to customers.
  • This would require the Farmer’s Market to hold a treasury of USD in order to fulfill orders.
  • The reason to start with a small selection of products and use drop shipping is to figure out which products are most in demand and then start to invest in inventory and fulfillment, and eventually going into production.
  • The business will be able to compete on price thanks to the positive carry of Beans.
  • Hope to start development in October and have an MVP by mid November. Hopefully in mid to late December, they’d start learning which products to invest in.
  • The grant proposal will be to hire Max Sow as CTO and provide the USD needed to fund the treasury to purchase goods from drop shipping vendors.
  • Total grant ask for Q4 is 100k Beans.
  • The prices on the Farmer’s Market in Beans would vary depending on the price of Beans.
  • Some issues with the proposal were brought up
    • Purchases of items will result in sell pressure as Beans are swapped for USD to acquire the items
    • Does not result in increased demand for Beans over time
    • Seems to target Silo balances in such a way that the business doing better means value is leaving Beanstalk
  • Idea seems to have been set aside after some feedback, but a healthy discussion followed about the potential for businesses to be built on Beanstalk.

Transcript

hello everyone and thank you for joining I have to say that the new bnft is definitely great to see and also we'll get used to the new pfps let's see wow we finally got Mr manifold off the Pepe yes he was the one that I was like who's that and I was like Ah that's that's a new Mr manifold I was holding out but these are just way too far I I capitulated I agree that kind of jealous all right I think we can get started um so thank you everyone for joining um for any questions that you have about anything that we're going to discuss or uh if we don't discuss it please feel free to drop them at the Town Hall chat and Mr manifold maybe we can start to your end on a brief uh update on the inspired and then we can go to business of France sure um so I guess we can start with the audits uh so the Sarah uh you know legal agreement has been signed um the legal review is done and and the agreement's been signed um so I believe we're just working with Seraph on a few small things regarding execution and and the PIP that you know they're going to be proposing at some point in the near future um and you know uh depending on how the bip goes um you know serif will be implemented um in regards to bip 24 uh you know we've done the back and forth that I've discussed and we're just waiting for a final report there hopefully you know some point next week we can formally have uh Biff 24 uh proposed to the Dow um so you know good progress on Sarah fanbook 24 and and you know hopefully both of those are are rocking and rolling relatively soon um in regards to you know being uh other like bean sprout best related things um Mata I'll defer to you on the best way to organize today's call but I do know Max so I was an audience that's expressed interest in applying for a bean sprout Grant uh focused on some e-commerce research um he wants to present a deck today um and so for Grant uh the general process here will be you know anyone kind of seeking a grant will be able to present in front of the Dow on on on a Thursday when our meetings are held and then we also want to make sure there's time available after for a q a uh presentations uh you know uh you know after with the deck you know should have kind of like key things you know Venture summary current problem proposed solution how it works you know benefits to Farmers and why stockholders should vote for your Grant you know the team you know who's working on this uh timeline for deliverables roadmap uh asking them out for the grant um you know try to be as granular as possible um you know protected use of funds Etc um and then any exhibitional Capital you'll you'll you might need to raise outside of the grant to execute on on you know your your vision your Venture um and and make your project sustainable in the long run um and then kind of after that you know we'll have a five-day period for a community discussion and the bean sprout General Channel where you know people can provide The Proposal with feedback questions comments and hopefully have a healthy discussion there um and then you know depending on how that goes the proposer can say you know I'm ready to move this to snapshot or I want to make some adjustments um and and go from there but that's kind of the general the general uh Cadence so presentation you know a week-long five business days uh time period for Community discussion and then you know if if it seems like it's ready for voting and and the proposal lecture where it's at um we can have the snapshot voting period um so so that's kind of at a high level and and I'll kind of defer to you on again on the scheduling uh but but I believe that that's going to be happening today okay that's excellent and yes Max did reach out and I think let's let's do this at the end of uh um this meeting so that we have time to like discuss it and even taken maybe any questions from the audience as well all right uh let's move to Beanstalk farms and maybe I can start briefly with marketing um so we've had the podcast with brand that came out this was recorded some time ago but it only came out um last week we just had an anime recorded with halborn to expect that to come out sometime soon we started a little bit of talks about the poker tournament that we want to run tentatively sometime next month and then lastly we've been doing some work on the education videos but nothing nothing major of solid to share yet moving to awesome can you share some of this from your end hey everyone so I guess I mean in general when there aren't a lot of outstanding governance proposals I spend most of my time uh on internal operational stuff to Beanstalk Farms that isn't uh particularly relevant to the Dow but as mentioned in the last couple updates I've been working on getting the the bug Bounty program up and running and hopefully we'll have a bip right up to share with the Dow before next meeting uh before the next for next Thursday so I've talked a little bit about the structure but uh you know I think uh it'll be adequately covered in in the write-up that we'll get to share soon that's it uh for mind thank you awesome enjoy guys Sarah Chad and sweet red beans you first sweet red okay yeah I'll be quick uh yeah this this week has been mostly just heads down working on refactoring the balances page so I'm pretty close to having a V1 finished uh which point I'll need to get some feedback from from some people on the core team and you know if if you want to give feedback and you're listening to this definitely open to walking you through it as well and seeing you know how you interact with it so uh that's almost finished and then uh Silo Chad can talk about uh the new kind of Silo token page uh so I'll let him speak to that but spend some time on that as well so uh kind of moving forward for the next week or so uh hoping to kind of finish up with this balances page refactor uh and then also kicking off some more extremes to uh get a fall theme going here so hopefully we'll have that ready for uh for fall here pretty soon on the website awesome thanks sweet red um yeah so on the UI engineering front um a lot of stuff going on in parallel so first of all looking back at the last week uh apis where VA apis were released on the site over the weekend um so if you haven't yet take a look take a look at those there's one last update uh we need to make which is adding those on mobile so that should be done uh sometime the next couple of days um yeah and a couple other small tweaks which are highlighted in the UI updates Channel in terms of of new features um a couple things going right now I'm going to drop some some screenshots in the town hall chat as a little little sneak peek so two things uh two things going on here first uh in the first screenshot so we are working pretty hard to get the long awaited farmer overviews uh at the top of the silo page completed so the one that I've shown is an example of seeing your stock balance over time uh and what you can see here is you know as uh as this account has made deposits the the line goes up uh accounting for the increase in stock and then you can see your stock grow over time uh due to your seats and so there's a similar chart for for seeds uh deposits is also in the works showing the total value of your deposits over time so those are on the horizon and will hopefully be launched soon I just want to shout out uh the entire team but but Cujo in particular for helping get some of the data on the back end ready for this it's it's a pretty complicated process um in the second screenshot uh this has been being sama's project for the week uh so he went ahead and just uh shipped this this new update to The Silo page which basically adds an overview of the total amount of uh of the deposited token for each token and then the apis which we launched last week uh percent of uh the total value in The Silo for this token and then also this awesome little Carousel at the bottom which will give some explainers on how the silo works for a for each token so uh the the images are great and red beans has done a great job designing this so that should come out uh sometime the next couple of days also uh moving on from that so a couple other things the marketplace activity table is in the works I'll send a preview of that also right now one moment um so this will basically give a window into all of the activity that's happening on the market uh finishing up some data stuff on that front that's what cool Bean has been working on this past week um see what am I missing uh I think that's uh those are the big things obviously some some progress being made in the background on longer term features like the like the decks but one last thing actually is that obviously as we all know the the barn raise bnfts were launched uh yesterday so thanks to everybody who spent time on that uh Breen for working on the contracts J dubs and the rest of the team for getting the the images all all built out over the last couple of months one note is that we're fixing some uh some bugs with uh with a provider that helps us load data from the entities So currently they're not available on the Beanstalk UI but if you want to check them out uh you know check your wallet and check openc for for those links and they'll be on the UI as quickly as possible uh on the the nfts page as well there was an update shipped to obeaker so go pretty quietly that ensured that for if you're if you're someone who's bought a b f t from a secondary Market or have transferred it between accounts that all of those nfts show up even a few uh the account wasn't the original one that minted it so you should be able to see all of your B nfts on the site now let me know if you have any any problems there um that's the that's the big stuff so I know that that was a lot um definitely send some feedback uh in the UI chat um if you have anything and would encourage everybody uh to to consider reaching out to red beans about doing some you know some feedback sessions we find those really helpful and so uh yeah if you want if you want to hear more about sort of the rationale there and how we're thinking about the UI red beans and I did a podcast with with Rex uh last week to talk a bit about this so check that out and um yeah otherwise Happy to answer any other questions thank you Chad um I I would like to extend as well uh with sweetheart being said uh about anyone who wants to given any feedback about the UI or you know suggestions on how the UI can be better um sweetheart has offered some beans we would like to extend that as well from the community Grant uh come in let's have a conversation give up some feedback and we're happy to reward to reward you for your time and your feedback all right probably yes let's let's talk a little bit uh bad things from your end so we had the emergency bip uh we we posed uh or made some changes on the on the maximum amount of the beans that can be uh minted per season what are the thoughts now on what what do we where do we go from here basically and the merge happen don't forget the merge happens so the the fix is already out in the wild and so far uh it it seems like there hasn't been any uh any malicious multi-block Mev of the Beanstalk Delta B Oracle so so far so good so far so good okay just checking if we have any questions all right these are going to ask us if we're aware of any multi-block meds not one that has impacted us at least but we're kind of prepared for it okay with that I think we can have Max Maxwell come up on stage and see if we can do that hey Max hey guys how's it going good good thanks for having me up um so the thing I wanted to share is this idea that manifold and I have been bouncing around for some time um it's in the vein of you know what we've all been talking about lately which is building IRL businesses using beans and so I'll drop a deck in the chat um and then I'll share my screen but in short I put together this plain text deck to talk about this e-commerce uh Bean marketplace where farmers can with their beans buy everyday products so is there any way to share my screen or should I just walk through you won't be able to share your screen here so we can do two things either move to uh to the Barnyard and then you can share there or you know we open open it and you talk us through it tell us like you know we're at this slide on that slide sure sure maybe I'll just talk through it that'll probably be easier okay great cool so the working name for this right now is farmer's market um and so what is the problem Bean holders um they want real world utility so you know you want to have the option to purchase Real World products with your crypto um and that's you know not even just for bean holders but in the in the crypto ecosystem more broadly it's like there really isn't uh you know an option to spend your crypto and buy everyday products um and then on top of that e-commerce businesses are yet to utilize beans for their positive carry um so again going back to the thesis which is that the positive carry of beans will make businesses like this come competitive with businesses that don't use beans so moving on to the solution for the minimal viable product to solve this so the thought is to have an e-commerce store which offers to start about 10 everyday Goods that are purchasable with beans and so those initial products that are listed those will be drop shipped to customers which means that if you're a bean holder you buy a phone charger what happens is we receive that order and then what we would do is we would then go on Amazon and fulfill the actual order and pay the vendor with dollars and so what this would require is for Farmers Market to hold a treasury of USD in order to fulfill those orders and the reason to have this Drop Shipping structure with a handful of products to begin is so that we can figure out you know which products are most desirable and then from there start to invest in the ones right by buying and wholesale starting with uh at the Fulfillment level and then eventually going into production with those products so that we can have better margins and so the goal of the MVP MVP is largely just discovery and so moving on single product Focus uh the goal in the long run is to eventually learn you know which products are most desirable and then invest in those right starting with the Fulfillment process and then in production and then just thinking about the bean economy just largely you know at least I feel like there's an opportunity for businesses that use beans to compete with businesses that don't because through a positive carry that we can compete on price um and then just the other side to this is that there also isn't a good way for you to spend your crypto and buy everyday goods and so you can think about like what is the most immediate beachhead for this well it's being contributors right it's the people who you know are paid in beans for their work but then have to you know perhaps do roundabout ways if they want to turn it into Dollars you know and so this might be an interesting way for them to be able to you know buy everyday Goods with their beans and sort of a rough road map here um you know the thought might be to start development in October by mid November hopefully have an MVP that's ready to Launch and then at some time uh mid to late December hopefully start to learn which products are are you know most interesting to people and which ones might be most interesting for us to you know invest in so the rough Grant ask is for Q4 it would be to hire myself as well as a CTO and then the other thing that we would need is an order fulfillment Treasury and so this part is sort of tricky you know we would be needing to raise 10K and beans but then unfortunately needing to sell them for dollars so that I want to lay out as like one of the drawbacks of this ask um and the reason why we need the dollars is because you know when orders come in we then need to fulfill them with dollars you know with the supplier who has the product um the total Grant ask for Q4 is 100k beans and I would say that the goal for that for this first quarter of farmers market would be to discover which products are popular and which ones are worth investing in so that you know okay moving on to sustainability uh the goal is to you know post Q4 into next year be able to have an idea of when we won't need to you know use grants to be sustainable um the big problem though is that you know sustainability depends on two things it's how much farmer's market earns in being senior Ridge as well as the profit it earns from the products that it's been investing in um so it's really hard to say what that looks like you know in what month or in what quarter we have break even and don't need grants anymore and so I just want to lay that out too which is that this is largely an experiment this is sort of uh the first thing that you know Sprout and manifold and I've been thinking about in terms of like an IRL business that uses beans so um yeah I just want to be transparent lay out what we've been thinking about um and yeah I welcome any questions thank you Max um let me go through the town hall chart I see there are some messages there okay uh so there's a question from schizobra and he asks is asking what would you need to do um to hedge against being volatility if I understand that correctly Max your proposal is that you will be holding um some sort of a treasury in usdc and then you know someone can purchase some beans and then you purchase using your usdc is that correct yeah so the flow there would be a user comes to the site they can browse the products when they place an order they say I you know I they they buy a phone charger they send us 10 beans we then take that order and then go to the vendor on Amazon and pay them ten dollars [Music] so um let's say you know the Press of being is 50 Cents that means the prices on your uh portal are going to change to reflect that correct that's right okay so I think I think that answers uh so basically your e-commerce site will not have been exposure it accepts and beans and then sells it immediately but it doesn't like hold beams and the prices change according to the bean price so that's that's how that's how it touches is that correct yes and but the where the selling when we receive an order we don't sell any beans as a result of that rather that that happens with like the thinking is to raise just like a 10K treasury in beans to begin with and perhaps sell that at once we just have that sitting but I guess we could also do it in the other direction which is per order you know sell some number of beans for dollars okay let me think through this uh long term so let's say you have 100 000 USD you get orders for 100 000 beans what do you do now you so you used all of your hundred thousand years you see now you have a hundred thousand beans but are you gonna sell your beans for use the seed to continue fulfilling future orders or what's the thinking that would be the thought is that in the future because for the MVP with with just drop shipping products we're not really making any money right we're simply just giving users a way to swap from Beans into dollars but they don't need to think about that part because we do the you know dollar to product swap for them so in the long run ideally when we're invested in a number of products namely buying wholesale and then moving into production and fulfillment then you know we're that's then you're actually making money right because you're buying the products for cheaper you're selling it for more so but then the question is when does when do we hit that sort of sustainable uh run rate that's the part that's kind of unclear that's why I want to oppose this this really is an experiment um and yeah understood okay I'm going to ask a few more questions and this is all for clarity and of course everyone else feel free to ask any questions that you have as well um I think question math has a question maybe I can start with that and then continue so causing that asks any thoughts on allowing beans to be used for services for example if I do freelance work let's see yeah I think maybe that's a separate yeah I mean this is an interesting idea too right it's like if you'd like to contribute to my work or whatever contribute to me in beans yeah I mean that that's feels separate but cool too okay Max let's continue then a discussion there so what is this grant going uh to cover is this to give us an answer on what products uh billion holders want to buy sure I mean the goal for Q4 is to spin up a marketplace where Bean holders can buy products with their beans and so you know I think that that's exciting for being you know for Farmers generally but then in order to turn this into a sustainable business that doesn't just rely on grants you know the other goal for Q4 is to figure out which products to invest in so I would say that's the high level you know North Star for the next few months okay maybe I can refill my question on on the on the added value so what's the added value to number one uh the bean holder the person who's buying these things with beans and then number two what what what what are we getting from this uh all in all or in general so as a bean holder right now for example I can sell my beans and you know go buy things uh from any other website that accepts you know let's say like one bean um what what is that what what is the value there from you know is it just being able to purchase directly is is that the thing or like do you get special prices what's what's the value here for the Bean holder yeah I think if if it's a silo transfer then the thought is that you would be able to sell products for cheaper to Bean holders because included in that transfer would be the stock and seeds so you're thinking that that e-commerce site is going to put some value to stock and seeds and then price the products accordingly yeah I'm honestly not exactly sure this is something that manifold and I have bounced around which is that you know you can pass on discounts to users via you know Silo transfers but how that'll actually play out I don't know okay or one one comment that I'll add uh there for me structurally you know this this like there's there's no money to be made I I don't really actually see like your Farmers aren't going to be undercutting uh what they'd be paying outside of this proposition um it's gonna actually be more expensive unless I'm missing something in terms of how this is going to be structured right because you know you're paying retail prices for goods um and then asking for a premium on top of the retail prices from Farmers which is you know maybe that still makes sense but I just I think I should I wanted to comment that I think the only way to structurally become cheaper is if the actual Merchants themselves are denominating their revenues in beans and their cogs and beans and so you know that's easier said than done uh but you know it it if there's a constant outflow to USD C or USD to basically make this engine work like that that's going to be tough to be sustainable the only way this becomes sustainable if it's like a bdv2bdv uh economy and a similar kind of what quasimat said but on the services side it's like he's willing to accept beans to do some freelance work um so in the same vein if there are Merchants willing to do that I think that would go a long way just my two cents there um so is that correct them I understand because I thought that you'll be buying in wholesale and then you know selling competitive prices but if I'm understanding you're correct this doesn't seem like wholesale to me it seems like what Max is proposing is is you know like market research to see what Farmers what goods Farmers want and then buy those good spots on like Amazon or something Mark uh Max correct me if that's not what how you're thinking yeah that's correct and that would just be for the first few months because sure at the start we could buy wholesale a bunch of products phone chargers toilet paper water bottles whatever but you know my my thinking here the hypothesis is that we probably want to learn first which products are desirable before investing in a handful of products so but again I mean open to feedback too like coming out of the gate just saying we're going to sell um you know water bottles phone charges and toilet paper like those are the things that we sell like I mean I don't think that's a horrible idea either okay this was going to be my other question on what is the purpose of the of the MVP itself because it seems to me that you're you're what you're proposing right now is that we're gonna do this to find out which products uh step does this seem more like you know a consumer thing rather than a bean thing how how do you know you know like like are you spending time or we're going to be spending this effort and knowing what do people want to buy or only are you like focused on what you know the bean Community wants to buy the thing that we're getting answered is what people want to buy but I mean that's the same thing as being holders because you we're only accepting payments and Deans okay I have a few questions here uh from Publius maybe we can run through them as well next so the first one says is that so this is how is this going to create being demand or demand for beans over time maybe the example that would just briefly uh went through is that you know people who buy with beans that immediately creates a cell pressure in beans can can you can you can you maybe touch upon that Max and then we can continue with other questions sure yeah so does this create uh more cell pressure so in the beginning yes it would need to be sort of one-to-one cell pressure where we receive orders and then we also need dollars in an equivalent amount to fulfill that order so it's really just like a just sort of like a multi-step swap into a real product so that's true but then how does it create more demand for beans over time well I think that other people will notice this who aren't already Bean holders and will want to take part and swap into beans and then you know buy products from there and then once we're at the point where we're investing in a handful of products right where we're making money off of those products and there's demand for beans such that we're earning senior age from the beans that we hold then you know I don't think it creates cell pressure forever and then do you want me just to continue down the list of of questions so maybe just to to jump in a little bit and try to think a little bit more about how this business will work in practice every time a farmer is buying a product on this Market unless the the manufacturer of that product is happening in beans meaning you as the the shipper or the marketplace are acquiring the goods for beans in every single transaction that someone buys something from you you're gonna take the beans that they pay you and immediately sell them right right and that's never going to change until the manufacturers of the products start to accept beans as payment for manufacturing the product right yeah exactly and at that point then the manufacturer is presumably gonna go and sell their beans on the market that they just got paid unless uh the people that they're getting their supplies from and maybe their employees they all want to get paid beat and so to some extent this is an interesting the the point we're getting at here is there's very much Catch-22 here right where at some point someone's got to start accepting some stuff for being and I think that the the interesting question here is this seems to be targeting current balances within the silo in a way that like in EV in every transaction the business doing better means that there's more value leaving Beanstalk for the foreseeable future uh perhaps it may be better for the Dow to fund businesses that uh are do better uh as Beanstalk does better if that makes sense like the if as the as more more demand for whatever the business is providing creates more demand for beat I think perhaps those are the businesses that should be designed in the built on top of Beanstalk in the early days just because you know I'm reading the chat and it's like dumpling's gonna spend 500 on uh you know toiletries that's great but now it's 500 that otherwise would have been in The Silo waiting to do lots of other stuff that's now leaving the silos so whereas uh everyone's currently in The Silo waiting for utility within or on top of the silo where people can use their beams to do stuff uh not sure if the use of beans that is something that the system should prioritize is use of beans in a way where every time you use the beans it literally translates to one-to-one cell pressure so it's it's something that the goal I think is certainly to to get to a point where people have an Amazon denominated in beads or can use beans on Amazon maybe even as the right way to think about it uh but you got to start somewhere I'm just not sure that the system is at a place where it can to stay in this type of cell practice totally yeah I hear that because it's money just exiting the system like it's a cool it's a cool offering but it's not yeah if anything the the it I mean it would obviously create utility for Farmers right I've got beans what can I do with human beings right now well not much but when it comes to how much utility are you creating versus how much cell pressure are you creating well at least to me and obviously this is something that I think the Dow should comment on but when it comes to utility for beans and using uh cryptocurrency not sure that the my first use of it is to buy toilet paper it's it's nice but that seems to me to be at least from an economics perspective something that will come along over time as a more sophisticated economy gets built whereas if we juxtapose this with a business like root uh all demand for rude betting markets at worst creates no cell pressure on beans because people need their beans to make the bed so when they're done betting they leave the system and at some point it's going to be sticky where people just keep their their capital in beans in the meantime right so that's a clear example of a business where demand for that businesses product or uh demand to use the product that the business is creating creates overall both in the short term and the long-term demand for beans whereas in this case short term it's exclusively sell pressure or supply of beans and long-term unclear how this actually turns into not sell pressure for beans at least for you know a couple years so it's it's I'm just thinking out loud here and not to pooh-poo your proposal at all Max I think that's really this is great and exactly the type of stuff that we should be collectively thinking about and trying to trying to figure out what are the right businesses to build uh but just thinking out loud here so uh you know again not to not to in any way make uh make you as the as the first person to come up here in A Brave way and make the make a proposal like this uh uh you know hold you to the fire and all so I hope you don't mind uh the commentary no this is good feedback and it does feel like the best like the first businesses to be successful on on being you know built on Beanstalk are ones that are just deeply Financial right it's it's root markets uh it's sports betting I mean do you think there's anything else in that category of first things that will be built on Beanstalk in the early days but that's also IRL and not just like a financial product I I have one comment on this Max and I think you know uh Pizza Man actually brought up an interesting point it's like if you if you kind of you you can if you kind of reshuffle the deck on how you approach this problem it could become symbiotic versus not which it seems like right now uh with Beanstalk right like so if it was you know like one example of this is if it's you know again kind of like what pizza man said where if it's if it's a if it's an aggregator um of businesses that enable these businesses to gain more business by accepting crypto and then maybe offering these businesses you know a higher yield account so they keep exposure in beans uh you know I I do think you know some of that is is similar to you know does go Do's goal Once Upon a Time with with like chai uh where you know they really try to establish Network effects with with merchants in in a certain country um and then you know uh effect actively facilitate strategically those Merchants you know denominating you know their balance sheet or or their customer payments in UST because it's a higher interest dollar um so you know I don't not nothing really concrete there but you know maybe food for thought and reshuffling the duck here totally yeah there might be some iteration that makes sense here but yeah this is all really good feedback guys thank you now I I had a question of mine on on building up on again um the previous notion of that the purpose of this is to find out what people want to buy do you think that this is a better approach versus finding someone who's already selling so why build an e-commerce let's say rather find someone who's already having that and you know have them accept beans does that make sense are you suggesting more of like a payment portal that accepts beans instead of USD no so instead of for example building an Amazon uh that accepts beans we convince Amazon to accept beans so that we are not doing the actual e-commerce work and we're more focused on being as a payment yeah that was another thought is like working with like Shopify and like other Shopify adjacents to get bean out is added as a payment type and I know that Shopify has plugins to accept different cryptocurrencies it'd be interesting to look into how they work but that would be really cool to have right which is like a Amazon or a a Shopify sort of plug-in that accepts beans that'd be really cool so why not that versus trying to build the e-commerce business itself versus having you know spending time thinking about you know is this product selling or not am I having a supply chain issues with that with that product and so on find someone who's already doing that and then put the effort in making them extra Dunes yeah so I mean I think the Shopify Plug-In or something of the sort like you're saying I think that's also a very interesting business okay I also kind of go ahead go I was just gonna say just thinking out loud this is the whole point why to some extent it's worth experimenting and failing right so the first couple businesses that are attempted may not do so well because it's going to turn out oh you need this part of the tech stack oh you need this part of the financial stack oh you need this connection to the Fiat world it's not going to be so simple but the point is that is all going to be uh data points that can then be used to figure out well what are the the lens the linchpins is that the word uh in the system that can really be if those pressure points are alleviated that will create the most long-term value for the ecosystem so I think to some extent there is a a balance between just throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks and where the pressure points are uh but it's also worth saying that we can probably do a little bit more collectively work in advance to think about what are those pressure points and one thing we're collectively coming to is here the the the payment rails at an infrastructure level that could facilitate the e-commerce business that's probably or business is that's probably a better first thing to build as opposed to an actual e-commerce building because we're still at the infrastructure for building faith so from that perspective when we even when businesses are starting to be built that build infrastructure we're still going to find out okay this is missing that's missing and so this is this is a collective process we're all going to have to collectively Endeavor on and just want to give Max a huge shout out for being the first person to step up and and and uh lead us lead us uh you know into the darkness if you will as we all try to figure this out so this is very exciting from my perspective even if uh even if we have we we have a lot of work to do to figure out what what needs to actually get built I feel like even something like a Shopify plug-in would still have the same issue in that it might it might be still one-to-one cell pressure right because then the next thing you're having to do is convince you know these businesses that they should hold beans like that's what I wonder too like that might be the next friction point with that kind of product I I agree I agree with you uh and my thinking is is how many things do you want to like focus on uh or tackle um building out on e-commerce uh site is you're mostly now entering like a completely different let's say business you have four things to worry about which is e-commerce things to worry about maybe focusing on one thing could be a better start but but that's just like me thinking out loud uh right now or on on the spot yeah as well I mean Thinking Out Loud here as well the real at least to me the economic thesis here the way it plays out around how beans competitive carry actually creates adoption is that businesses that start to hold beings on their balance sheet they will collect the competitive carry and if they're in a competitive industry the the adoption of beans on their balance sheet is really what creates a slight Edge that allows them to out compete now if if I'm a business or I have a business that's holding beans on my balance sheet and I do business with another business that does uh business with beans on the bound their balance sheet uh it may make sense uh for us to start to transact some of our beings instead of going through the friction of getting the beans and turning them back into dollars to transact in dollars but frankly it's hard to imagine the Second Step happening where businesses are transacting in dollars until that friction point is really significantly alleviated where businesses feel comfortable holding beans on their balance sheet uh in order to out-compete their competition so I think from that perspective businesses that focus on uh cash management for real businesses uh and being stock related cash management solution such that it's as simple as possible for these traditional businesses to get exposure to the Beanstalk carry with as little risk as possible I think that's where you're going to start to get get closer to home as to where we should start collectively but just just talking out loud here no that makes total sense that was one idea I bounced around a while ago I even talked to a bank partner about this which was how do we help either businesses or institutions or consumers hold beans and take part in the positive carry oh I I'm definitely excited about that category too and Pizza Man shared I think a Shopify um integration maybe or link so that could be you know for some something to think about or or to look into next and to some extent it really is still early days like for a business to hold beans on their balance sheet that's a big deal so particularly if we're talking about big businesses that's a really big deal I don't know you know with beans having their microstrategy moment well I think we're a long way away from that uh if we're being if we're being perfectly friend so in the short term I think we need to even be one step removed and think about well what are the what what does it look like to have a sufficiently sophisticated I don't know if you I don't know if you can even get to the point where you call it an economy but an economy built on top of Beanstalk such that the product offerings for a business are attractive to start to use right where to some extent that just depositing beans in The Silo that that's that is it but uh I think last a couple classes ago when mod presented the idea for these uh for these beds uh there's lots of different derivatives that can be built on top of this where now businesses can have positive carry without exposure to the being price for example uh such that that offering becomes much more attractive from a risk reward perspective so lots of lots of improvement can be made frankly in the offering that beams document the pitch the economic pitch that Beanstalk is really presenting two businesses just to come and start to at a minimum get off zero in terms of their exposure to Beanstalk or beans and you know we we may even be a little bit early in terms of non-stop or based businesses so what's root building and practice well root right Roots working on viv24 which is Beanstalk architecture to facilitate stuff built on top of beans so it's it's this is not going to be a a process that's done instantly and you know just just thinking out loud so not sure if that's a cohesive thought but it's uh we're certainly collectively learning a lot about what we should be doing on this call I feel like this is great I'll also just wanted to Echo uh publishes comments there you know shout out Max it's not easier getting up here in front of a group uh and and pitching an idea for the first time for a grant so uh takes a lot of Courage so so shout out to you even if this grant uh fails perhaps there's a grant uh for a lesser for just getting up here and making a great proposal that should uh should be considered because this is really a great uh in and of itself you've created value here for the DAP and I say that a little tongue-in-cheek but it's uh there really is something to be said for uh coming up here and presenting yeah guys I mean this is all really good feedback I I now there's NASDAQ is is in the chat I mean just starting the conversation on building businesses with bean I mean that's just valuable in any case so maybe there's some iteration of this that makes sense maybe there isn't but yeah I'm just excited too to continue talking about it and then the the only other question that I typed up that I think is still relevant at this point and it's just a a structure of the proposal is was this proposal uh based on deliverables meaning the 100K would be delivered at the end of Q4 based on uh certain deliverables or is this supposed to be an upfront Grant and if so if the if only 10K was being used for the treasury what was the other 90k being used for sure so the 10K that's something that would be needed up front but then the rest of it I was the rest of the money is spent on salaries would be myself and a technical lead and so that could be dispersed yeah this is an important thing to know is how that money is dispersed and I you know for salaries I think it would just be paid out at the same time as you know Beanstalk Farms or any other payroll that happens within Beanstalk so this is I mean perhaps I mean I mean not even there is no well-defined structure here uh but I think I think it may be optimal if the goal is to have salaries to do this through the I think it's called the the bfcm uh whereby because this is the current structure anyone that has the the Dow has voted to be on the bfcm to implement something that requires continuous salaries also has the ability to hire people under them and then that the person that has been approved by the data beyond the bfdm has the ability to do whatever it is that you're doing so in the case of Silo Chad there's a lot of work that needs to be done on uh the the UI front uh so Silo said because he's on the bftm can hire people to support that so in your case if you were on the bfcm this is at least under the current structure as I understand it you would you'd then be able to hire all these people that you would need but in the case of these grants uh I think it probably makes sense for it to be more retroactive based on doing certain things or delivering certain certain items right so at least that's how I understand the grant but maybe you could have a grant where it's in advance I'm just thinking out loud but I think if the goal is to have South the grant would be the 10K to create to seed the treasury that you could do in advance but I think if the goal is to have salaries at least as it's currently implemented by the Dow as I understand it that should be done through the BFC app gotcha that makes sense that is correct the the kind of structure that we have uh in place uh Maxwell probably summarized all right a few of the comments uh in the chat or what about if we um if it's a good idea to have a separate channel to discuss things like that I'm open to that I think we have the Barnyard that currently exists and then we also have an idea Channel but if you know folks believe or think that we want a separate channel for that let us know and maybe we can we can drop have a channel just for it you know I think that's a great idea a little concentrated discussion never heard anybody okay we'll we'll work on that then and have or spin up a channel uh just for that then there's a lot of people in the chat that seem to like it as well so yeah I'm voicing invoicing their uh the heart reacts on the latest messages that sounds good I think we have the Publius uh Stamper for provillon all right Max what are you thinking about now how do you want to take this forward do you want to rethink this a little bit come back again what are you thinking about yeah I feel like this is a really good initial sort of feedback stash so I mean it probably makes the most sense to reevaluate this maybe talk with other community members about you know what we all think is really interesting and with Publius too just because there's so much good feedback and so yeah I I don't think it makes sense to post a proposal you know post a snapshot today I think there's definitely some reevaluating sounds good and let us know uh if you need anything I believe you know as you said you can reach out to any of the members or the community members as well awesome thank you guys thank you Max thank you Matt this really is this really is what makes Beanstalk so great like Socratic discussion this is awesome thank you very much great job Max leading by example okay um we're at the end of our meeting now and unless anyone else has another question you can you know type it or comment stage and ask it I'll give it maybe a minute for Endless meeting question from pizza man on the Beanstalk amm foreign on this I don't have any updates but if you do mod feel free to share yeah I think I think the update that there are some complexities in it so it may take some time uh the update is is the same update as before uh where we expected to take a little bit of time before it gets deployed I think if the update is the same update as the update before then there's no update right that is correct uh we have a good time everyone gets a little bit of a hard time here but we also have a good time I think absolutely hey guys I just wanted to um highlight a little bit of what I was throwing in the chat there um I was thinking it might be interesting if there was a way that you could just an easy way even like on the website where you could click Send a bean invoice and if you had any you know people you were working with um that you were billing and you could send them an invoice and you could you know there's people that I work with that I could send and say like pay me and beam and say it was a thousand dollars and then if it just worked up a similar type of invoice like a Paypal invoice and then you could offer them a discount if they sent you beans I think that might work like quasimat would that work for what you were talking about too I wonder if that would be a like a fairly low-hanging fruit way of that's very cool because I have several people I have several people I would send those to and that would onboard new people and it would also that would be actual new beans that are purchased and then probably held by the person who is sending the invoice because they want beans pop rope oh my oh my God where have you been dumb I've been around dumpling sorry can you can you can you just repeat like the 22nd uh overview of that again I I'm sorry my mic cut out or my favorite yeah no problem uh so the idea is you'd oh sorry I got it one sec okay so the idea is you'd have an easy way to generate a bean invoice and on the website you would have like some forms that you'd fill out you'd say how much is it how much of a discount do you want to offer who do you want to send it to and then boom it would send an email to someone uh with a bean invoice or how much you want to bill for and then they could pay it to you and I think the smart or the cool part is that it would offer a discount so that would incentivize them you know to create a wallet do everything they have to do or ideally even use Fiat and then root it through some Fiat on-ramp you kind of do you kind of get it this is exactly the type of thing that would be eligible I would think for a grant upon delivery right here's the feature set you'll have an option of maybe a Fiat on-ramp to choose from whether you have beans like it's just this feature set hopefully the the website will be open source soon enough so it can include a PR to the website to add this feature and then it's like upon implementation of this feature which requires no bip you know pay payable of certain amount of beans and then the the grant can be approved in advance then someone can go and and implement it I think that's like a great that's a great idea dumpling and then just to to bring it back to the meta discussion we were having before about how to structure all this well and what I like about it too is it's almost like this would be a way the way that I see beans right now is kind of like my savings right and because I can't buy toilet paper yet with them once I can buy toilet paper with them then it's my money but right now it's I see it as my savings and I want to grow more as much stock as I can so it's the sort of thing where I have people that I that I bill and I'd rather you know a certain amount of my money I need to pay my expenses with but a certain amount I'm saving so right now it seems like I would send some bills and say hey you know can you pay me in being and then I would be keeping that in The Silo and so that's really the goal here is to get someone who wasn't you know who wasn't gonna send Bean in the first place now they're buying Bean they're sending it to me and then I'm putting it in the silo so it's a you know it's a bean sink it's not a one for one yeah it's really interesting I think maybe to just bring it to a little bit of a macro economics discussion so what we're figuring out here is that beans will first be a store of value then there'll be a unit of account and then they'll become a medium of Exchange which is very interesting yeah that sounds that sounds right to me I do want to be able to buy toilet paper and paper towels though with them third step first we gotta we're starting to be a store of value then you gotta get to unit of account get businesses to hold it on the balance sheet and then finally you get to medium of Exchange anyone interested in building a poker app that lets you you know play poker with your solid deposits right away oh yeah I want to play poker immediately all right uh good ideas good chat um let's continue having more of these and anyone else who has you know any other ideas uh bring it up and we will create that other channel where we can have it have almost focused discussion let's say um over there they asked one being if that that's gonna take some time um they we don't have a date on that yet but should have some updates uh in the weeks to come okay uh we're approaching the hours and I think we are at the end of the questions uh anyways so thank you everyone for joining us uh down meeting and we'll we'll have the next one next week thank you all lots of fun lots of fun again shout out to Max so star of the Damian thanks guys