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DAO Weekly Meeting #21

Date
May 12, 2022
Timestamps

00:00 Intro • 00:37 Updates • 01:38 Using NFTs for the Barn Raise • 05:18 Timeline • 06:44 Q & A on the Barn Raise • 53:21 Closing Thoughts

Type
DAO Meeting

Recording

Updates and Notes

Updates
  • Halborn audit started Monday
    • Will end sometime in June
  • Trail of Bits audit will begin in June
  • Main focus of Beanstalk Farms is currently on the NFT drop
Notes

What is the best way to facilitate the Barn Raise for the community?

  • instead of a fungible token we will be using NFTs
  • The reason behind this is to minimize development work — if you could deposit a fungible token in an AMM, there would be work to figure out how to distribute the Bean mints to the LP token holders rather than the AMM address
  • Beanstalk farms is trying to keep dev work at a minimum and a fungible token would be a lot of work for the dev team

What will the price of the NFTs be? And how can we make it accessible for everyone?

What is the timeline look like in relation to the unpausing of Beanstalk?

  • Capital needs to be in the door before beanstalk is Unpaused
  • NFT sales would close June 27th
  • Start of the NFT sale would start three weeks prior

Why does the NFT sale have to finish before the Unpausing?

  • The state of Beanstalk needs to be set before the Unpausing
  • It is much simpler to have some time in-between the end of the NFT sale and the unpausing

Will listing the NFT on an exchange such as OpenSea cut into profits?

  • The process of getting the NFTs will not happen on OpenSea
  • Listing fees are paid by the lister

Has there been a drop in OTC interest because of the downfall of Terra?

  • Shockingly there has been significantly more OTC interest

How does the downfall of Terra affect Beanstalk?

  • Someone texted Publius “There goes your biggest competitor”
  • Publius agrees with this
  • It feel like Beanstalk has always been a uphill battle because so many people have been burned by algostables

How do we make sure gas prices are not crazy during the mint?

  • Going to use a very simple contract setup
  • Publius is a SAVAGE gas optimizer

Publius has been working on The Farm

  • will allow you to call arbitrary functions within Beanstalk in a sequence
  • Will be able to do a lot of actions in one transaction
  • Any comments on Do Kwan being behind Basis Cash?
    • No comments

What does the death spiral look like for Beanstalk?

  • The death spiral for Beanstalk is that Beanstalk cannot drive demand for Soil
  • Beanstalk does not make any promises to be exactly at peg
  • Most Bean mints get converted into LP
  • Beanstalk does not try to prevent a bank run
  • All it can do is to incentivize users to stay in the system
  • these incentivizes come from Stalk, Convert, and Sowing when price is low

Re NFT sale and gas fees: Is Beanstalk farms worried about the volume of the NFT sale?

  • Publius dreams of this
  • Nothing could be more bullish for Beanstalk

When will the OTC deals close?

  • by June 6, but if interest is there after will find a way to accept the offer

Why not use a lower price for the NFTs?

  • at some point the NFTs will be worthless

What attack vectors should Beanstalk look out for from the UST collapse?

  • It was a economic attack
  • someone started a bank run
  • Beanstalk incentivizes users to keep their money in during a bank run
  • It is very important that the DAO does not approve every and all asset to the silo
  • More liquidity = more stability
  • Very hard issue to solve

How would the old Barn Raise (bid your Weather) work with a Unpaused Beanstalk?

  • How do you price the Weather? This is a very hard thing to price in
  • The protocol takes a very conservative approach, would rather over pay than under pay for debt
  • No maximum or use the actual Weather as a maximum
  • Bidding below the Weather is an interesting topic
    • Beanstalk does not care about this though

What is the vesting schedule look like for the NFT sale?

  • No vesting for the NFTs, yield will be paid by Bean seigniorage
  • Vesting apply to the recapitalized assets
    • Vesting will be a function of the percentage that has been payed back to the NFTs

Do we have people who have marketed to the NFT community?

  • Beanstalk Farms is all ears when it comes to this

Will there be a new BIP to reduce the length of the Pod Line during times where P > 1?

  • Pod Line length does not matter to Beanstalk
  • The Pod Rate matters to Beanstalk
  • but it’s something to consider

Why not add an auto pause feature when the protocol detects suspicious activity?

  • Publius would hate this
  • If people want to sell their Beans when P < 1, so be it

Do you think the market is hungry for dollars? if so does Beanstalk fixes this?

  • This is more of a macro issue
  • The whole world is hungry for dollars, especially for on-chain dollars

Any updates on Root Finance?

  • Started writing smart contracts
  • hoping to launch 1-2 months after Beanstalk Unpauses

How would you dispute claims that Beanstalk needs growth to be stable?

  • Unless the Weather is 1% there is some implied growth in Beanstalk
  • Theoretically there’s infinite demand for something like Bean

Any closing thoughts?

  • Thank you!
  • Publius is feeling very inspired
  • Publius knows something is here

Transcript

awesome we can go ahead and get started um thanks everybody for joining uh similar to last week I think what we'll do here um is spend you know just a few minutes kind of going over what's what's going on with it being stock farms and I think can spend the majority of the time uh having Publius walk over a bit of uh what's going on with respect to the nfts and we can answer some some questions so as always please post your questions in town hall chat or raise your hand and I'd be happy to bring you up on stage with respect to Beanstalk Farms Lots going on so on Monday we officially started the halborn audit and have been working with them um you know sharing code and And discussing things back and forth so they're Off to the Races as a reminder that's going to end sometime near the end of June trail of bits will also start around the beginning of June and end near the end of June so both of those audits are expected to be done sometime around the end of June outside of that the main focus of Beanstalk Farms the last a couple of days in particular has been on shifting our efforts towards the nft drop so we can talk a little bit more about the mechanics there if you haven't seen already we've just posted a snapshot for this in the announcements Channel going over some of the mechanics um how it'll work with respect to Rarity and artwork and other typical nft components but happy to dig into that discussion here so maybe Publius if you want to take it away kind of giving the the overview of why we're headed down this route um and talk a little bit about where we're headed next sure so there's been a lot of chatter about the best way to make this as accessible as possible to the community and uh with good reason and ultimately what's been settled on and is now being put forward for a formal vote is to instead of do a fungible token issuance to do an nft issuance and the main uh thought behind using nfts instead of a fungible token is that the the liquidity for a fungible token would be very difficult to implement from a development perspective because these fungible tokens will be entitled to Bean mints and so if you deposit your fungible token in an amm like curve or uniswap that contract will actually start accruing your being senior Ridge and so there would need to be some sort of additional code written and development work done in order to facilitate the proper distribution of The Bean mints and the goal is to keep any additional development work to an absolute minimum at the moment and in short if you use an nft Marketplace like openc for example where you just list or bid for nfts then you don't have any issue where the the nft is being deposited in another contract and therefore there's no problem with the bean mints so in short the the and furthermore well I guess it you do have to deposit the nft in a contract to list it but the concept is it's still much easier to facilitate the distribution of the mint thereafter as opposed to in an ammo so uh functionally it's much simpler to do that and that's the main benefit now then the question became well how how cheap or expensive for the nfts and how to make the you know the nfts as accessible to everyone as possible so for that perspective the original thought was you know a normal nft sale is typically like 10 000 nfts that's like the normal round which would put it at 7 700 uh seventy seven hundred dollars per per nft but uh there was some feedback that that was too high of an amount and so uh our understanding is that there's going to be a hey an issue and stuff I think let me confirm I don't actually know the exact number the number is 15 400 right now at five thousand dollars print ft great that makes a lot of sense uh I just wanted to confirm that before I stated that to everyone on record so yes uh fifteen thousand four hundred nfts for five thousand uh usdc a pop uh very clean and simple and hopefully that maximize this participation as much as possible and creates a really simple elegant structure to relaunch this with minimal development overhead so that's the that's the plan uh the snapshot proposal was posted a little bit earlier today and you know happy to answer any and all questions awesome yeah in terms of some of the the more specific mechanics about you know how Bean mints are distributed and those sorts of things uh recommend that everybody check out the the snapshot for those details so it's pretty exhaustive on that front um yeah I suppose Publius you want to talk a little bit about about the the timeline for this and how it'll relate to the unpausing of being stuck briefly sure so the capital needs to be in the door uh prior to the the unpause and so the thought is to end the nft Cell at the latest on June 27th according to the proposal and then uh start that three weeks prior so it would start on a Monday and run for three weeks [Music] awesome and just um I know we've discussed this internally but just to help kind of share with the community what's the the reason for having the barn raise end prior to unpausing [Music] so the short answer is the state of Beanstalk needs to be set it needs to be scaled based on the funds that are raised and therefore the funds that are raised need to be determined prior to the unpause and it's uh much simpler to do it with a little bit of time between when the fundraise is complete and when the protocol is unpaused as opposed to doing it instantaneously awesome thanks for the answer so I know that this nft pivot of sorts or I guess extension of the original plan is uh is something pretty new and there's been a lot of really awesome discussion going on in uh in a couple channels throughout Discord so we'd love to get some questions and discussion going here please feel free to raise your hand and I'm going to be watching Town Hall chat now to start pulling some questions up for Publius so we'll start with one from crabs crabs asks will listing the nfts on an exchange such as openc cut into profits profits for whom I uh crabs feel free to to clarify but I assume for for people trading this after the fact to be clear crabs uh the the process of obtaining the nft will not occur on open seat it'll be through a barn raise specific interface we'll move on to here then can Circle back to that one so Hugh asks has there been a drop in OTC interest off the back of the Terra collapse great question so shockingly there seems to be significantly more interest in being stuck in the past 48 hours so we'll see what that turns into I don't have really any more additional Capital commitments over the past 24 48 hours since uh since class to to comment on a report on but generally it's kind of mind-boggling [Music] maybe an extension of this to discuss and I know it was discussed a little bit in uh in chats of the past couple of days but you know how does the how does the Terra collapse affect Beanstalk well someone texted us well there goes your biggest competitor um you know that's probably the right attitude generally to us and maybe this is wrong but it's felt like being stuck has been an uphill battle the whole way because people have been burned by so many outgoing stables in the past and while people may at this point in time want to Loop Beanstalk and UST together they're totally separate in different models Beanstalk is an innovation on the ESD and basis model or even basis cash which has now been in the news as opposed to a mint and burn model so the concept that they're the the the fud around Tara May extend to Beanstalk that's obviously the case to to some extent but that's likely going to be the case with with uh ignorant uh capital and frankly one of the things that Beanstalk is most afraid of is ignorant Capital so if you're telling me that the main result of this is that uh Capital that that is easy come easy go is less likely to come into Beanstalk in its early stages we would say that's fabulous foreign thanks for that answer uh Krabs was clarifying the earlier question um he says the question was regarding any listing fees or fees Beanstalk would have to pay in order to list the nfts so the the listing fees crabs are paid by the the listers whoever acquires one of these nfts when they go to re-list uh that's the when the fees will be paid at the time of minting it'll be in a separate spot awesome okay moving on to a question uh from jams how do we mitigate crazy gas prices during the mint like the other side mint I can speak a little bit to that and then if Publius wants to hop up and talk about the dev side please feel free um so we're using a pretty standard contract setup for this um I think other side had a you know a a different sort of contract going on that was much less gas optimized so uh this should be just like you know any other ethereum um ethereum and so I wouldn't expect anything crazy here obviously gas speeds are up a little bit right now due to lots of traffic on ethereum in general um but yeah don't don't foresee anything crazy uh please feel free to hop up if you want to add anything to that all right so uh Publius is too humble to do this but I will do this uh they sent us the numbers for a cost to minting at yesterday's gas prices one nft should cost 7.63 cents to Mint 100 nfts should cost 26.74 cents to Mint and if you minted all of the nfts it would cost 2871 that was at yesterday's gas prices so I don't know what what that was in terms of way but uh pretty fun yesterday I think pretty cool so it'll be cheap as one thing worth noting actually is that Publius is a Savage gas Optimizer so I think if there's one thing we don't need to worry about it's uh it's high gas fees I think if gas fees are high on on Beanstalk you can you can bet they're going to be as you know High everywhere uh he's done a really great job of of keeping the gas fees low tell me the last time you heard of 15 400 nft mint that could be done for 2K in gas if only you guys knew how hard Publius Works to minimize gas fees like literally just uh he he does it for y'all I promise you it's like and she's like oh I can just endless endless try gas savings [Music] awesome we'd love to get some more questions rolling um or feel free to to raise your hand he's also he's on a plane right now he's not on this caller otherwise he'd be texting like shut the up because he he hates uh getting any credit yeah actually while we're getting some more questions rolling in I'll another shout out and a little bit of a forward-looking um concept or thing that may will roll out sometime here in the near future so Publius has been working on what we're calling um the farm which I and uh you know naming TBD but will be a component of Beanstalk that I think it's pretty clear the name is the farm chat come on um but this this component of Beanstalk will allow will basically allow you to call arbitrary functions within Beanstalk um in a sequence and the what that really means is that you can reduce gas while doing uh pretty complicated things so I know Publius you have some favorite examples of things that you can do with that functionality do you want to give a quick example sure so our favorite example this probably won't be live upon relaunch uh but it can be added shortly thereafter uh but the idea is if the if liquidy were integrated into Beanstalk you can use the farm functionality to take your b instead of harvested uh sell them into eth deposit that Ethan a liquidy trove meant to LUSD against that Trove and then add LUSD to an LUSD Bean pool on curve for example uh add that LP token that you receive into convex for convex LUSD bean and then deposit that convex LUSD being in The Silo assuming that convex LUSD Bean has been whitelisted for for deposited in The Silo so all of that would be possible in a single gas efficient transaction due to the farm functionality assuming liquidy were integrated now at unpause the farm functionality will probably just be Beanstalk specific stuff so the ability to harvest trade deposit and stuff like that as well does withdraw your assets and trade them without necessarily taking delivery but the ability to interact with other protocols as well can be added shortly awesome a question from just a bean any comments on dokwan being behind basis cache our first stable coin so uh uh I don't know you know what's there to say [Music] awesome uh quick shout out so we just uh we just had Phil core who's a new member of the Beanstalk Farms team helping us out with a mixture of things from operations and and design and Beyond uh drop a quick a quick sketch of what we're thinking about for some of the nft artworks so I've been super excited to uh to just you know start sharing some of this with the community um and I think it's pretty exciting to see what's going on foreign up on stage barud how's it going thanks for coming up oh no thanks uh thanks for having me out um quick one I think there's like some general uh shakenness with you know kind of the unraveling of Luna and like kind of you know the bank run scenario and I think there's like um there are questions I like paid this out in in my head a few times with with being stuck and seeing like weather or you know similarly if it could work in in an analogous faction or if in any way there could be a similar unraveling um and the only kind of scenario I've come to you so far is like you know say like being goes below Peg and you know there's like Soul Supply increases but no one is no one is buying pods which which seems kind of unlikely but but it is a possibility right in like and in like a a Cascade like we've seen over the last like week I guess so I mean what are some scenarios that you guys are thinking through um regarding you know the potential fragility of a beanstalk and like how do we work to like make a beanstalk like more anti-fragile I guess um I know it's a pretty broad like question and probably a bit unfair um no it's perfectly Fair it's perfectly Fair it's a great question the hmm the starting point is that everything you said is correct the death spiral scenario for Beanstalk is the scenario where it is unable to attract demand for soil and you would you would expect if you go from a period of growth where there's excess demand for soil to a period where there's not excess demand for soil and the system may be trading beans may be trading below a dollar so now you've you're in a debt cycle uh the important thing to note is that Beanstalk vary explicitly does not move quickly and does not make any promises to keep the being price at the pack and in fact as anyone that's used Beanstalk knows the price is in fact never never a dollar ever it's either above or below a dollar and it's constantly oscillating above and below and in addition to the soil mechanism which we would argue at at the macro level is a much more sustainable and anti-reflexive mechanism than Luna being the collateral for UST at least comparatively there's a couple of other [Music] really important parts of Beanstalk that make it substantively different uh we'll we'll try to summarize a couple of them the first uh that that to me is go ahead viru do you have something you wanted to say oh no I just accidentally unmuted myself sorry um the first is that if you compare UST and the peg maintenance model to USD it was convertibility uh that created the peg stability and though the users of UST and the people participating in the yield of UST in the form of anchor uh they were not uh participating in Peg maintenance if you will and therefore when there was a d-pag on curve there was this prior expectation of oh someone just handles Peg maintenance and convertibility and as soon as there was a d-pag there was very clearly a loss of faith in the system because Oh I thought I thought someone was doing that and clearly there's now a problem and even though at that time there wasn't really a liquidity problem in the system it was just a short-term outflow that caused that d-peg because of the throttle limit between uh conversions between UST and and Luna uh it was there's really the main issue was a behavioral one in practice and that was what created the run on the bank if you compare that with Beanstalk and The Silo it is all of the users that are participating in the senior rich and the growth of the protocol that actually do the peg maintenance that's what convert actually does right and as we've seen in practice the vast majority of beans that have been minted in senior age ultimately get converted into LP that's why the liquidity to being Supply ratio increased so dramatically over the couple of weeks prior prior to the attack and similarly whenever the price was below one we quickly saw in practice someone was converting back up above one and so this convert functionality the fact that the users are the ones that are incentivized to sell high and Buy Low Buy Low sell high and do it again and again and that's how you can maximize your returns and your senior age from being stocked in theory that should condition everyone to be much more comfortable not leaving at 97 97 cents but just hitting that convert button and one thing that's really important to note at a high level I know we've said it before but we'll say it again Beanstalk doesn't try to prevent a bankrupt in any way all it tries to do is minimize uh how big the bank run can get if people want to leave because they're fearful or they need cash or they don't understand the mechanism or for whatever reason there's nothing being stuck can do to prevent them from selling their beans at a discount all they can do is incentivize the people that are still in this system to convert their beans back up to buy beans below a dollar and lend them to the protocol and to do other things that return the price to the peg as opposed to following the other people at the door and if we look at at the margin how Beanstalk creates those incentives it comes from a couple different places in addition to just convert the first is stock right so you don't just have the individual opportunity cost from the stock that you've received but as people start to leave The Silo as there's a run on the bank as the indenominated value and the silo decreases people are burning their stock and they're not just burning their stock they're burning their grown stock and therefore from an opportunity cost perspective the value of that grown stock relative to the total Stock Supply becomes more valuable as more people leave the system and so if we think about how the opportunity cost at the individual level should affect people it should be increasing over time the more people leave the system so that's where you'd expect at some point someone to say you know what I'm not going to follow the next guy at the door and sell my beans for 50 cents I'm gonna buy and convert up right yeah yeah no that's great I I mean like yeah it's just like an open question I really appreciate like thoughtfulness that went into that answer I think I've sort of came to perhaps less fleshed out conclusions um yeah I mean it's great guys uh thanks so much yeah I mean I think there's there's a couple other places that Beanstalk uh adds further anti-reflexive mechanisms like the fact that when you buy beans at 50 cents and lend them you're basically doubling the weather you receive and yeah there's other pieces like that that make it such that at lower and lower prices it's more attractive to stay in the system or buy into the system yeah so again this all plays into you got to have a well-educated user base you need to have a user base that's been through lots of oscillation and at the first sign of oscillation is not going to all run through the exits and that's something that can only be built through through practice yeah I mean I mean for the record I I would pause at like uh 75 cents or whatever so I I like I agree with you I just um being encouraged to rethink um just like rethink everything from the events of guns today but um yeah I'm entering crowded place so I'll head off and thank you guys awesome thanks so much for root um we've got Alex who's raised their hand to come up on stage uh Alex invited you up hey guys uh I was just typing this question but I'm going to just say it here so uh related to the nft sale and the earlier question about gas fees I understand that you guys optimize the code to make you know the actual ethereum transaction as gas optimized and as cheap as possible but there's another problem here which is the volume of people that are going to be hitting this thing at the same time right so on every popular nft sale that I've ever been part of what happens is it ends up being a total show when you have five ten thousand people trying to hit the ethereum network at the same five minute five minute period right it's going to congest it's going to cause gas prices on the network to Skyrocket people's transactions are going to fail and you're going to have bought an automated accounts sniping everything because they're just going to be automated and just perform better that that's just what happens right every time this happens people always end up salting they complain it's just a shitty shitty atmosphere all the way around um there was only one time where I saw this thing mitigated and that was with like a pre-sale or a white list right where only people that had a white listed account could go in and just claim an nft at any point throughout a 20 24 48 hour period but if you have the scenario where you open up the gates and you you say go and you have ten thousand people five thousand people however many racing to like hit the network it's going to be a show so I'm just curious like are we okay with that or do we want to medicate I hate to say it what you're describing is like the scenario I fantasize about uh so they know that's good for the network it's good for Beanstalk because obviously we're going to hit our thing right but that's it that's like that's all that's all that matters you know if if this thing is that oversold you know everyone will be better off for it frankly uh like nothing could be more bullish for being stuck than people burn and eat for these nfts that would mean that the round was overpriced and the weather was too hot foreign sounds good great thanks for your question Alex thanks and apologies for missing it uh earlier didn't realize that's what you were referring to that that scenario is just uh you know hey we hope it happens but that that isn't uh what we're optimizing for at the moment if you will like that would be that'd be crazy but hard to hard to like plan for that if that's if that's what our problems are that's a very small problem if you know what I'm saying as opposed to everyone having to way over pay to Mint their their bnfts sorry one quick follow-up do we have any idea of like ratio of pre-sold nfts to the VCS and all the OTC deals versus what's going to be actually available so it'll be anything that hasn't been sold OTC prior to the start will be available and we don't we don't know how much that'll be at the time do you know but by what date will will the OTC effectively close by the 6th June 6 when this thing starts or is there like a an earlier cutoff date no it'll be June 6th but in theory if someone wanted to buy some OTC after June 6 we would try to facilitate that as well somehow but June 6 is probably the cutoff okay thanks great thanks for the question Alex um keep an eye on Town Hall chat so please feel free yeah and you're always typing in the chat you should just feel free to come up here anytime totally all right let's see neurovirus asks any chance the nft price could be lower 5000 seems high why not do one thousand but at some point the nfts are going to be worthless if you have infinite nfts yeah there's another dimension here which is that um you know to at five thousand dollars we're already doing uh fifteen thousand four hundred collection um so you know go to one thousand dollars you're now talking like 75 000 nfts uh there comes a point where you're probably moving a little bit too far away from how other collections behave um as well as gas implications right also I think you skipped just a bean let me jump back Justin what if any learnings or potential attack Vector should be in stock look out for from the USD collapse so this was an economic attack assuming that someone initiated it I mean it seems that someone did uh now the whole point is that it required somewhat minimal amounts of capital to start the bank run and the bank Runners will kill the system and so again this goes back to our core point that all you can do is try to minimize the bank run the extent of the bankrupt now one of the things that very clearly exacerbated the bank run and the extent of it was The Leverage in their ecosystem and there is sort of a I don't know what I don't think it's a catch-22 as much as just something that's tricky to navigate which is that if beans are to become a primitive the expectation is that beans may be used as collateral or uh leverage may be issued on top of beans in a variety of different capacities but that is substantively different than leverage existing under being right so it would be like if you could uh take your take your I mean there's so many different ways to to add leverage to the system but the short answer is a simple example previous some of the previous things we've discussed is the concept of a stock Bean pool and the ability to wrap your deposit your stock being and receive more stock which is in some ways leverage now honestly I'm thinking out loud and in real time but the concept is the Leverage is in the form of more stock so when people would unwind that leverage they'd be unwinding they'd be they'd be selling stock and that would actually uh exacerbate at least in theory exacerbate the anti-reflexivity here because the total Stock Supply would be going down as people left the system now a way to further make it uh what even less reflexive would be instead of having a stock Bean pool to have a stock eat pool for example and instead of incentivizing a stock beef hole with more stock you incentivize a stock eat pool with more stock and so if that pool starts to unwind and you have a radical decrease in the supply of stock that would contribute to uh the anti-reflexivity during a bank run as opposed to if it were built on top of stock being now you have to sell the stock into being effectively uh [Music] you know there's there the point is how you build the core of the model and what assets are whitelisted in The Silo it's very important that the Dow is not aggressive and doesn't just green light you know in the interest of infinite growth 10x levered products in The Silo and instead the hope would be to have assets built on top of the Silo and on top of Beanstalk but not not in a way that contributes to a core Levering of the system and what's the best what's the best measurement of this right to us we would look at the liquidity to be in Supply ratio as the main indicator of the in addition to the Pod rate which is the the explicit leverage of the system but the the liquidity to supply ratio as sort of an implicit uh leverage of the system whereby as there is more liquidity trading against beans the less and less risky it is to hold beans because the only thing giving them value is the liquidity the more liquidity there is compared to each being the the more likely it is you'll be able to trade your bean for value and the concept is if you have stock trading against eth then there's actually a higher than a hundred percent uh liquidity to be in ratio possible whereas at the moment in the current implementation it's only a hundred percent so if you allow stock and maybe other we were thinking about even like the root token you could do like root eth deposited in in The Silo as well where now you have lots of different Beanstalk related assets trade and I use eth as an example but it could be three curves uh the concept is now you have additional liquidity for the system to trade out of and against in the instance that there are Bank runs so if you compare that to the liquidity in the system for UST uh hundreds of millions of liquidity on EX on dex's for a a almost 20 billion Supply stable coin uh that was a really tight door to for everyone to try to squeeze through whereas in the case of Beanstalk there's been very clear product Market fit in its ability to widen the door as the protocol grows as opposed to having the door stay the same size or Shrink so lots and lots of lessons here I mean it's really the best data you could ever ask for from our perspective and yeah it's it's very evident to us that you know this is the the hardest problem to solve if you will from an economics perspective that you can try to solve and the cost of not not not doing a good enough job is I mean What's the total loss of value over the past couple of days 60 billion or something something insane and it's just important to realize that this is an experiment everyone here is all contributing we're all trying to figure this out together but it's a very complicated problem with with no right answers only a ton of wrong answers and this is a a reminder for everyone that we should all stay humble and we should not you know this is an experiment this is all an experiment so UST was the biggest stable coin to date and it failed colossally in practice uh but was it was it a total failure it depends when you got in and when you got out right so uh ultimately ultimately think there's a lot to be learned from them I think there's a lot to be said for their success and their failure the fact that it was mainly due to inorganic demand from anchor and heavily subsidized that's another major lesson to be learned in terms of subsidies and also a data point that Beanstalk is significantly more likely to succeed given that it's had no subsidies to date so endless thoughts frankly this is the this is the only thing on our mind at the moment other than capital [Music] thanks for that detailed answer I I want to move on to a question from from Justin Bean uh that raises um or sort of resurfaces a an idea that was brought up yesterday that's really interesting he asks um as a thought bubble how would the old barn raise bid your own weather uh the old barn race bid your own weather system work for for the protocol once it unpauses people could bid lower than the existing weather and would it would avoid the bot sniping and also save the protocol some debt in Good Times while still able to max out quickly in The Bad Times bids could get locked in and clear out every minute or so or every season perhaps [Music] the the hardest part for everyone including Beanstalk including all the participants is how to price the weather or how to price be in stocks debt and Beanstalk takes an incredibly conservative approach to pricing the weather in general whereby it would rather be protocol overpay and issue too many pods on average than it could if it were uh issuing debt perfectly efficiently but the goal of the protocol is to minimize the amount of time that or the amount of Seasons that all of the debt issues doesn't clear and in short while the ability to bid on soil each season May result in a decrease in the interest rate the protocol pays in certain periods we would think that whenever you have a substantive change in the state of the market at that point in time it's very hard for the market to price lending to the protocol and so there's really two ways to do it you could have no minimum or no maximum weather excuse me or you could use whatever the weather of the protocol would otherwise be as the maximum think the latter case is more reasonable to consider in the former case if there's no demand for soil during a season someone may bid a billion percent and make that may clear I guess you could put a maximum but that's the main issue with bidding and you could do bidding below the weather and then clear People based on how low they're willing to pay that is somewhat interesting uh then the question becomes I mean yeah that's an interesting idea I'd have to think more about it but it's a in theory the only thing I would comment is that it doesn't really matter to be in stock you know like I guess it would rather lend for a cheaper amount but at the end of the day it's not really substantive from the protocol's perspective at a macro level at micro level it's great to save pods but at a macro level it's unclear whether that would improve or decrease uh the efficiency of the of the soil Market but it would have to think more about it I think it's a very interesting ITN frankly I've been thinking through a little bit of it on this end as well it's uh yeah the pardon race was a very cool mechanism all right next up uh from RG RG asks what does the vesting schedule look like for those participating in the nft rates it's the same as the barn raise whereby the percentage of the re so a there's no vesting for the nfts the the yield will be paid out based on being senior Rich the vesting applies to the recapitalized assets which are the beans circulating beans depositor beans LP tokens uh stock uh all of those assets that are being recapitalized uh I guess not stock technically um they are the ones that are subject to the vesting schedule and the vesting schedule will be a function of the percentage of the interest that has been paid back to the nft so really the same structure awesome mod asks if if it was doe behind bates's cash do you find it surprising that they pivoted from a credit based model to one like UST Luna nah I don't know what to think about that [Music] cool all right we'll move on to NASDAQ do we have people in the community who marketed nft mint projects before seems like this is doable with good marketing but the nft community might be different than stable communities so need to figure out how to Target them um quick comment and then Publius would love to hear your thoughts as well if folks in the community uh you know have experience on the nft front you know Beanstalk Farms is is all ears and would love to collaborate with you on this so we've got a great team steaming ahead on it right now but you know ideas and and collaboration is much appreciated so I'm sure there's a couple people floating around who've done this before please feel free to you know ping us in one of the channels or you know message me or anybody else on Beanstalk farms and we'll get you routed to the right spot Google there's any thoughts on on your end from from that perspective with respect to marketing I have almost no no nothing to add on the marketing front I'd say I'm quite ignorant cool well I guess to to expand a little bit for you NASDAQ so obviously like we're we're working on a couple different you know marketing options here I think mod can probably speak the best uh to that at this stage but we do have people on the team who've worked on on nfts and some more things before so I think like you know we've got some expertise with which to to push forward um as well as have you know the team itself has done too over the past couple of months so all right moving on to American pharaoh just wondering when generalized minting LOL [Music] I I just think it's funny how many hosts American pharoah is going to get with this one did we lose Chad I think we lost Chad yup still here uh looking for questions so let's see another from NASDAQ will there will there be a new bip to slowly start reducing the total length of the Pod line like if we could slowly decline the length of the line to 100 million so the length of the Pod line doesn't matter to being stuck what matters is the Pod rate now the long and the short of it is there's really two things that that make sense along the lines of what you're suggesting nasjack the first is that the soil if the if the Pod rate were less than five percent being stocks should be always willing to issue debt up to five percent uh so that it always retains a pot a minimum pod rate in theory uh or be willing to now the the thing that's more related to what you were saying so the or what you were suggesting perhaps is that the currently the number of after bit nine the number of PODS being stalking shoes every season is the or is willing to issue every season when the price is above one is based on the number of PODS that were harvested at the start of the the last season and they're equivalent therefore the Pod line stays the same length uh there is something to be said for decreasing the Pod line to uh decrease the Pod rate faster uh and so you could add a multiple uh to that whereby uh instead of minting a hundred percent of the pods that you harvested at the start of the season during the season you do 50 of that or something so it's very easy to to add a multiple to that and decrease the powdery that way that probably does make sense [Music] awesome uh a question from from East wallet a little bit earlier that I missed sorry you thought what do you think of adding an automatic pause functionality of the protocol in in the event of suspicious movements which could look like a liquidity attack from a big player or a simple Panic within the silo during a bear Market would hate that more than anything basically this goes back to if the if people want to sell their beans let them sell their beans at a discount you know the idea that there's going to be some sort of uh pause on the run on the bank uh no let let them flee let them flee this thing the whole point is that everyone just needs to go through enough runs on the bank to realize I'm not selling this one you know like the the volatility on the bead price is built in it is built in so if you don't have faith that beans are going to recover the cheaper you sell your beans the better for the long-term health of the ecosystem it's as simple as that foreign another question from Mr manifold do you think the market is hungry for dollars if so is being a good solution to this problem this may be more apropos to the macro market right now but I guess it applies to crypto cryptos somewhat affected by that as well clearly at the moment uh but in general the whole world is looking for dollars uh and dollars on chain remain a hot commodity so Beanstalk and its ability to issue dollars on chain we think is the we just can't wait to get it back up and running awesome I've reached the bottom of town hall chat so yeah feel free to drop more questions or raise your hand if you'd like to come up on stage we've got about 10 more minutes here so happy to to dig into whatever's on on the brand a couple people typing next question from from tur boy any update on route from Mr manifold manifold I don't know if you'd like to jump up on stage or give a update in chat but feel free to hop up we'll move on to the to the next question from Austin how would you dispute claims that Beanstalk must grow in order to sustain its price saw a question the other day questioning if the Beanstalk model had problems when it completely saturates its addressable Market foreign I just hit my microphone can y'all hear me yes so the the question is to Beanstalk must grow ultimately the unless the interest rate the weather is one percent I guess even if it's one percent there is some implied future expected increase in the supply of beans however you don't necessarily need to expect the total supply of beans to be higher than it is at the moment that you're lending to the protocol to get paid off uh per se uh but that's certainly a reasonable assumption to make when you're lending to the protocol now the the good thing here is that this type of asset particularly a a medium of exchange uh like beans are in theory in it of infinite demand and that is the real concept here or by if beans become the main liquidity provider of defy whether they're denominated in dollars or something else the concept is that the there will always be growing demand for beans at scale so in between now and scale there's growth to scale and then once you're at scale there's a there's an at least in theory ever-growing demand for beans in the form of other assets that it will trade against so while you are betting on the growth of the bean Supply uh the the amount of the growth of the bean Supply that you actually need is is very different depending on the state of the system great thanks for that people yes uh we've got Mr manifold on stage so manifold I'll hand it off to you to give an update on root okay um so a few things here um you know we've started writing our smart contracts and we've actually contacted halborn um to get ahead of um the lead time right now uh for Auditors uh such that you know we hope to launch you know a month or two after beatstock restarts so not too far long after so we're kind of just preparing for that um but you know internally we're we're working towards building and launching and then on the on the race front um we are we're pretty thrilled with how much interest there is in the round and you know to be honest there's there's more interest than we initially allocated for so uh that's a good problem to have and you know we still have a few more new investors that you know just learned about the opportunity and would love to have uh on the cap table frankly um so we're kind of just working on uh closing out the round uh hopefully in the next next week or so um but you know all good signs um and and we're just continuing to build but uh we'll keep you guys updated as as there's more to say awesome thanks manifold let's see uh from from neurovirus we got a few more minutes left so we'll keep going not sure if this has been discussed in other calls before but do you think uh ampl can have long longevity how do you think it'll suffer giving everyone rebases instead of just lpers debtors in beanstalk's case [Music] you mean ample fourth like I mean that's been around for so long so it's just a question of not really of utility it seems like they that protocol does oscillate above and below pay it's a question of frequency of the oscillations and uh the nature of their mechanism doesn't doesn't contain enough incentives to oscillate the the price above and below the peg fast enough to create utility but it's I mean very cool model very clearly where the use of the quantity theory of money came from for ESD and and the like that's it is to some extent a predecessor of being even though Beanstalk doesn't use the quantity theory of money but it's uh you know big fans of ample example fourth also didn't they just change aren't they now pegged to some sort of like a CPI adjusted dollar or something I'm pretty sure that's the case so uh that also at least at the moment tends to limit their utility [Music] awesome well uh last call for for questions are folks to come up on stage awesome uh Publius any sort of like closing thoughts you'd like to add in here while we still have a minute or two uh uh I just want to say thank you you know this is like I don't know guys we're feeling very inspired we're feeling very inspired it's it's been a a crazy month or so since the attack a crazy week with what's going on in UST and we know that there's something here and we don't know if Beanstalk is going to be the long-term solution like the the stable coin issuer uh it's a really hard problem to solve but we're very confident that being stuck is by orders of magnitude the best attempt so far we're very excited at the opportunity to continue working on it we're very excited at the opportunity to hopefully see it continue to play out in the real world and we're betting the over you know we're betting the over so excited to get this uh bad boy back up and running uh soon enough [Music] awesome well thanks everyone for coming and asking great questions uh we'll be here next Thursday as well for the for the weekly meeting um and yeah please keep dropping questions or Thoughts with throughout the community uh just to repeat if if anybody's uh you know interested in in collaborating on the nft front or just like has ideas for Beanstalk Farms you can always tag us or our message in a channel message me message any of us would love to hear what you have to to say so thanks

  • 53:21 Closing Thoughts