📖

Beanstalk University Class #46

Date
October 11, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Intro • 0:17 What happened in 7563? During this season there was a peg.  What happened to cause the price to change abruptly? Overall it seems the protocol is good at preventing deflation, but not as good as preventing inflation? • 6:25 After the repeg convert, there was a negative sentiment towards those who convert above the peg, and why not have a group mentality where all of us wait and have the protocol keep minting? • 13:15 Do seeds only play a role when entering the Silo or do they play a role when you are in the Silo? • 16:00 Publius explains why a Stalk that grows through Seeds plateaus at some time. • 21:39 Are there any updates on the Wells? • 22:47 Any idea why the available soil was bought at the same time as Bean re-pegging? • 25:28 What do you think about Beanstalk offering Beanstalk loans? • 28:57 Has Publius looked into Chicken Bonds and if they are applicable to Beans? • 30:58 When will the voice mod be back? • 31:44 When does it make sense for a protocol or marketplace does it make sense to denominate things in Roots vs Beans? • 34:17 Do we need to find a coder for the rebalance unripe assets seeds project? • 35:45 If you denominate a bet on root with Beans, how do you benefit from the positive carry of Beans? • 36:34 What are Roots? • 37:04 If Roots are the only way to use deposits in the Silo and the majority of Beans are in the silo, then would you expect protocols for using the positive carry? • 37:54 How will the price of Roots change? • 41:27 How revitalized Stalk and Seeds are calculated? • 45:11 Closing statements
Type
Beanstalk University

Recordings

Meeting Notes

What happened in season 7563? During this season there was a peg cross. What happened to cause the price to change abruptly? Overall it seems the protocol is good at preventing deflation, but not as good as preventing inflation.

  • The reason for the repeg was because someone converted.
    • In addition to the field, the SIlo has been upgraded by the DAO to be a part of peg maintenance. The biggest upgrade for peg maintenance is convert, allowing farmers to convert LP to Beans when the price is too low and Beans to LP when the price is too high. This has been a major driver of the decrease in price volatility.
    • It is very easy for any protocol to prevent deflation, all you have to do is print more of it. It is much harder to prevent inflation. Beanstalk could be better at preventing inflation. This is just the nature of the beast.
    • There are a ton of tools to use if you are not familiar with blockchain analysis, such as the discord bots. It is very hard to tell when it makes the most sense to convert, that is up to the individual farmer.

After the repeg convert, there was a negative sentiment towards those who convert above the peg, and why not have a group mentality where all of us wait and have the protocol keep minting?

  • In general, Beanstalk creates peg maintenance assuming there are a lot of independent competitors that are competitive with one another. Beanstalk should also be able to create price stability in a condition where there is widespread coordination to de-peg Beanstalk upward or downward. Unsure what the optimal inflation rate/ Silo APY Beanstalk should target. Currently, Beanstalk is natural on incentives to convert above and below the peg. Publius does not have a strong opinion on people trying to group up and not convert. Farmers should be unbiased as possible regarding what they think is best for them. The DAO should improve the peg maintenance model, this will be a continuous process. There is a difference between farmers coming together and not converting and passing a BIP to pay everyone. BIP only needs 50% of Silo users whereas not converting would need 100% of Silo users.

Do Seeds only play a role when entering the Silo or do they play a role when you are in the Silo?

  • It plays a role all the time, you are always making decisions when in the Silo. Unsure if Beanstalk should be used to create improvement in peg maintenance. Hoping to start a gauge system for Seeds sometime in the near future. Hoping that the way Seeds change over time is very flexible.

Publius explains why Stalk that grows through Seeds plateaus at sometime.

  • Currently, Stalk grows linearly, which happens over time because everyone’s Stalk grows linearly the relative benefit of depositing earlier decreases relative to other farmers. From an opportunity cost standpoint continues to increase. Publius thinks that there is enough of a benefit to converting for the price and not Seeds. Beanstalk optimizes around the price currently. Beanstalk should optimize around not just the raw values but around the time and magnitude of deviation along the price and the debt level axis’

Are there any updates on the Wells?

  • Lots of work is happening, but there is no rush to implement the oracle so they have as much generalized utility as possible.

Any idea why the available Soil was bought at the same time as Bean re-pegging?

  • Publius would guess once the price is converted to peg, there would be less Soil the next season. Maybe there is a need for real-time Soil adjustments based on converts.

What do you think about Beanstalk offering Beanstalk loans?

  • A lot of thoughts, but not really well formed. Publius is doing their research on how loans on or around Beanstalk should function. This is a huge economic question. It is impossible to prevent these things from happening. Money markets and loans should all be secondary to the peg maintenance model.

Has Publius looked into Chicken Bonds and if they are applicable to Beans?

  • Has taken a brief look at it, thinks it is cool, and uses similar incentives structures as the Silo. Things like this are cool when implemented permissionless, but no real thoughts on how it could be used for peg maintenance.

When will the voice mod be back?

  • Pain in the ass to carry around, so it probably won’t be back.

When does it make sense for a protocol or marketplace does it make sense to denominate things in Roots vs Beans?

  • At some point, it makes sense to have a Bean:Root pool, and then you can price everything in Beans. Does not think Root will be a massive part of Bean's liquidity but could be totally wrong. Once there is a liquid Stalk it will be much easier to denominate your deposits in BDV. Makes sense to denominate in the stablecoins itself.

Do we need to find a coder for the rebalance Unripe assets Seeds project?

  • Yes if you know someone please reach out to the team. Publius is happy to help with this, but think this is a short-term fix and it would be great for people to focus on a long-term fix.

If you denominate a bet on Root with Beans, how do you benefit from the positive carry of Beans?

  • You would not. You would denominate it in Roots in that case. You might want to bet your deposits (BDV, Stalk, Yield).

What are Roots?

  • Roots are a fungible deposit in the Silo. You can use Roots elsewhere, to start you can use them in the Root protocol.

If Roots are the only way to use deposits in the Silo and the majority of Beans are in the Silo then you would expect protocols who want to use the positive carry?

  • Correct, until there is a way to easily use Deposits it makes sense to use Roots.

How will the price of Roots change?

  • The current version of Roots is so that you can deposit any deposit, and the root tokens you receive are a function of the minimum change percentage BDV of the contract, the percentage of Stalk, and the percentage of seeds. The value of Roots is equal to the number of underlying Deposited assets plus a premium because of the additional Stalk and Seeds that are leaked on mints. Silo rewards sitting on the Root contract can be claimed by whoever.

How revitalized Stalk and Seeds are calculated?

Transcript

how's it going Publius quite well mod how are you I'm doing well thank you okay we can start um the first question is in the questions um Channel and that's by Alia sector from pronounce that correct correctly and he's asking uh basically about you know what happened in season 7563 and I believe he's referring to the recent uh not not the recent uh pack but the one that just happened before it um and his question is the following what made the price abruptly returned to pack for a while after the days hovering slightly under Peg and trending down and the soil accumulating in the field overall it seems that the protocol is quite good in preventing deflation and by deflation means of the price you know the pegs upwards but not as good in preventing inflation which is one if the price is below one going back to one um the answer this course is convert but do you want to maybe summarize that produce on on how convert works sure so in addition to the field which functions as the credit facility of Beanstalk and the primary from a macroeconomic perspective the primary creator of long-term stability and being price because as long as Beanstalk can borrow enough beans from the market over time to remove enough beans from the supply to return the price to a dollar it can create price stability uh The Silo has also been over time upgraded by the Dow to also become a major part of Peg maintenance and uh the introduction of conversions within the silo from uh beans to LP when the price is too high and from LP to beans when the price is too low have created a way for particip Farmers that have Silo exposure that don't intend to withdraw uh their Silo exposure to also participate in Peg maintenance by effectively buying and selling beans uh when they're too high and too low respectively and so convert has since it was introduced in December of last year been a major driver at least in our in our opinion and if you look at the data we think it reflects similarly uh a major driver of the decreased in price volatility of beans since it was introduced in December and so that's maybe to answer the first question now with regards to the comment about it's the protocol is good at preventing deflation but not as good at preventing inflation well that's I mean that's of course that's true it's very easy for any protocol to prevent deflation all you got to do is print more of it so that's a really easy thing to prevent uh in general the the thing that's much harder to do uh is preventing inflation so in general we agree Beanstalk could certainly be better at preventing inflation but think that and it's also not as good at everything you say is true it's not as good at preventing inflation it's deflation but that will always be the case and so uh that's kind of like a truism in the case of a system like Beanstalk without collaterals so from our perspective the goal is always to try to figure out ways to further improve beanstalk's ability to prevent unwanted inflation uh but otherwise this is kind of just the the name of the game or the structure of of a system like being stuck where you don't have there's no collateral and therefore it's very easy to prevent deflation but very difficult to prevent inflation that's just the nature of the Beast okay so being was back to Peg because a participant or maybe a group of participants converted and brought the price back to one by converting LP tubing is that a reason why that happened in a specific time or the answer to that depends on the participant themselves so you know every person will have will decide by their own when do they think it's worth their while to convert well a couple things one I think one of the things that's relevant here is that in their comment they said they don't know anything about blockchain analysis there are a ton of tools that are available that are are designed to make it as easy as possible for everyone whether they have technical experience or not uh to try to understand what's going on within Beanstalk so there are lots of bots in Discord and uh within the Beanstalk Discord and there's also telegram Bots uh where you can track all of the events that are happening within Beanstalk and think that that's generally a very helpful resource that people should reference if they're looking to try to follow things and make sense of what's going on uh in general it's very hard to I think in some cases it's it's easier to tell oh like look this wallet continues to do X Y and Z or this bot is doing uh a b and c but in the case of the convert that we saw this week in particular there wasn't any sort of there was one big convert that we all saw that brought the price back generally to the Peg and then there were there were still some sales and then a couple more converts and don't think that although I'd have to confirm this I don't think that the the second set of converts came from the same wallet as the first set of converts uh and the maybe well I guess the first wallet that converted not sure if it was the same as the wallets that converted later on uh or how many while it's converted later on because frankly haven't been following it that closely uh uh the this afternoon we noticed the or at least I noticed the the repeg this afternoon and then uh Publius mentioned that we'd actually been printing all evening so uh hadn't even been tracking it that closely on the sensor don't have any any real insights on what what what what led to the repeg in particular okay after uh that incident uh happened there was a bit of a discussion in the in the general uh chat or on Discord uh and there was a little bit let's say of a negative sentiment on those who converted uh when the price of being was above one and the thinking behind that was why convert why not have a group mentality where all of us wait and let you know the protocol to keep on printing ornamenting that sort of reminded me of the 3-3 you know mentality uh um which is you know if we all coming together we will not we will let the protocol you know print and print and print and then all of us will accumulate like more beans what what do you think about about that in general uh uh Publius well in general Beanstalk is designed to create Peg maintenance assuming that there are lots of independent actors that are competitive with one another and at the same time Beanstalk could also be able to create uh price stability in an environment where there is widespread coordination to try to de-peg Beanstalk whether that's upward or downward and the reality is that the the upward and downside volatility in terms of the incentives of convert can be further improved or refined where they're probably there probably is some healthy rate of inflation of the being Supply where it isn't advantageous for Beanstalk to incentivize converts above the peg uh to the earlier comment from Elias sector uh relias Alias Hector uh it Beanstalk is probably uh uh incentivized to pay a premium to minimize downside price volatility uh and and is to some extent less concerned with short-term upside price volatility from a peg maintenance perspective which would be in stock pay a premium for to prioritize certainly minimizing downside price volatility from our perspective so there is a question as to what's the what's like the the optimal in either an inflation rate for beans or an optimal Silo apy that Beanstalk should Target uh currently being stocked as totally neutral in terms of its uh incentives to convert above and below the Peg and think that that's something that can certainly be refined perhaps in terms of some grown stock bonus perhaps as well as the stock age system that's been discussed previously uh but some sort of variable grown stock bonus Depending on time above or below Peg uh that could potentially be used to further refine the ability for Beanstalk to encourage converts when it wants uh not sure whether we have a strong opinion on whether the converts uh you know whether it makes sense for people to try to unite to prevent Converse don't think it's really possible uh given just the the large amount of farmers it would be hard from our perspective to expect uh people to just stop converting that doesn't really make sense given that there is an incentive to convert for individuals now at what price it makes sense for individuals to convert that's kind of up to the market to decide we saw it took a little bit of time for Price discovery on converting back up and think think we also then saw some price discovery on Cell pressure below the Peg and at least for the moment it seems like all of the being Supply that was willing to be unloaded below a dollar has now been unloaded and so now there's some price Discovery around people selling their beans above a dollar and that can be from converts or that can just be from people selling beans for whatever reason so that doesn't necessarily just extend to The Silo in this case and it'll be interesting to see now that again at least for the time being the price has returned to a dollar whether what what type of Supply there is or marginal supply at given prices and what what type of uh convert demand there is it's just interesting from our perspective to watch but not really I mean we're never going to come out and give give a recommendation on what people should be doing instead we think it's much more imperative that the economics of the protocol are tested out in the wild and totally unbiased by any sort of recommendations on our part so it's certainly not gonna we advise people on whether that makes sense or not but at the same time think it's it's certainly interesting and as people do whatever they do based on what they're incentivized to do the Dow should probably continue to improve improve the peg maintenance model but it's it it's that that's a continuous process at least for the time being there seem to be a lot of different pieces that can be improved to to further refine the the convert incentives a little bit more a little bit more specifically and one open macro question is is there a a Target apy that the system should Target perhaps uh maybe it's the risk-free treasury yield for example right if beans are paid to a dollar uh it's hard to justify holding beans as opposed to dollars if the risk-free rate uh is is higher than the rate in beans uh so there's some question of competitiveness and whether the system needs to care about that or whether the system can afford that these are open questions that are on our mind at least is there a difference between farmers coming together or uniting and you know deciding for example not to sell to keep the protocol minting versus passing a bip and just you know minting and and paying everyone yes certainly because in the case of a bip there's you simply need a majority of stock whereas in the case of not converting you would need every single participant not to do that so to a large extent it's easier to do things via bib all right continuing I guess from from that discussion and it's kind of uh related to it and we're talking about seeds now um and as we know in today's model LPS have four seeds and then just holding beans you have two seeds what is the thinking between having LP being four C's is it only that when new participants come in they have a choice to either just buy beams or buy LP and then you have an incentive to go for an LP because there's four seats or it's also that while you're in the silo you know converting uh audit impacts basically an incentive to convert uh this is a question do seeds only play a role when you're entering the Silo and by seeds I mean the difference between LPN beans or it also plays a role while you're in the silo already well it obviously plays a role all the time right that you're constantly making decisions if you're a farmer in The Silo whether or not you want LP or beans and to that extent it's it the the main question that becomes given that that is a factor whether or not it's a factor that Beanstalk should use to create uh some sort of improvement in Peg maintenance and as has been often discussed by the Dow uh and as far as we understand it is now started to be in in development it's still probably you know this is now do one hopefully but uh at some point the hope is to implement a gauge system for for seeds where the amount of grown stock from a given deposit based on bdv or in practice the seeds for a given deposit uh fluctuates what that will fluctuate based on is unclear at the moment but at least the architecture uh to have changing seeds over time uh that's being developed as part of a uh you know the next upgrade or part of the next upgrade to The Silo and that that it should be implemented in a way hopefully that the the way that stock excuse me the way that seeds can be changed over time is generally very flexible and then that's a separate economics question that the Dow can answer all right last question about seeds um that comes from zero G's um and maybe the question kind of fully answered uh to it but I couldn't find the graph that supports it and that is um about you know stock accruing through seeds Through Time plateaus eventually the populist can you maybe help us with the photo mode even if you I remember seeing that graph somewhere if we can drop it to show that with time eventually the stock accrued Through Time plateaus or maybe without showing the graph just take us through the understanding of it why is it that stock plateaus stock accrued or growing through seeds that was through time all with time So currently stock Rose linearly in perpetuity so it doesn't tail off in terms of the grown stock however what what currently is the key and that may be something that should change over time uh where the amount of grown stock is no longer linear and older deposits get less of a bonus however the effect that is already in place but could be improved by changing the stock to no longer be linear but the decrease in the amount that has grown over time is the effect that if I deposit today and X time goes by and then tomorrow you deposit or X time goes by and then you deposit the same bdv mod uh I will have some grown stock corresponding to X time however when another X goes by so now we're at 2x from when I deposited uh I the amount of grown stock that I have is 2X and you now have X and when another X goes by it's worth 3x I'm at 3x and you're at 2X and therefore because everyone's stock grows linearly the relative benefit for having deposited earlier uh decreases relative to other Farmers but on an individual basis from an opportunity cost perspective continues to increase and so there is some reason why the grown stocks should continue to grow from seeds in perpetuity but there's a question as to whether or not background stock needs to grow forever uh or or not well it should probably grow forever but whether it needs to grow linearly forever or whether it should decrease and to that point uh while there is an open question as to whether grown stocks could be used as a bonus in some way to encourage additional conversions it should probably be factored in that uh at some point that may favor certain participants that can convert faster or have some some sort of execution improvements over over everyday farmers and and in that case if the way that growing stock is rewarded is not done uh in a way where it isn't basically the punch line is you can't you can't have it such that any individual participant can accrue too much grown stock from their participation in Peg maintenance so it needs to the stock system needs to continue to be generally decentralizing in ownership over time and that's something that should should be a consideration as all of these different additional bells and whistles to Peg maintenance can be added or thought to be added foreign do you think there is an argument to be made that conversion there's enough incentive for conversion through the price and and you know not seeds so when when you convert you're converting by arbitraging the price of being and that's enough of an incentive yes I think that argument is perfectly valid uh from a theoretical perspective think that the real question becomes what is Beanstalk really optimizing around uh currently Beanstalk optimizes around price and it optimizes around the Pod rate and it it optimizes around whether or not the price is above or below a dollar but not really the magnitude in any way uh purely just whether the price is above or below a dollar and with regards to the Pod rate it does optimize slightly around magnitude because you have multiple uh different classifications for the Pod rate or four different ones as opposed to just two for the price but nonetheless there's no there's no action that beam stock takes to like exigently lower the Pod rate again it's not focused on the magnitude of the deviations of the Pod rate per se uh in an explicit way nor is it focused on the time of the deviations of price or you got a call can you hear me I can hear you now uh where did I lose you that as that was it doesn't optimize or it doesn't look into the Pod rate anymore the the the the concept is that it doesn't focus on uh time uh or magnitude it's purely just focused on the values themselves at the moment and there is a question as to whether the protocol from a theoretical perspective should start to optimize not just around the raw values but around uh the time and the magnitude of deviations along the price and the debt level axes those are like philosophical questions around the model okay okay harrismith asks a question of when if there has been any updates or any developments on the wireless so there's lots of work happening but uh and maybe if Publius wants to come up and chat about it feel free but the I mean two two minutes before class started mango markets were hacked and it was a problem with their oracles and so from our perspective there there is not there's no rush to to implement the oracles the focus is to do them properly so that they have as much generalized utility as possible and really just want to get it right so uh while we appreciate the the question this is not gonna you know we're not rushing it so don't have any updated timeline there's a lot of work happening on on that front but they're it's a work in progress okay we're at the end of the Town Hall uh chat questions so let's give it some time and see if folks have other questions and all questions are welcome whether it's something that we've already been discussing or you know we haven't we haven't I think there was another another question from Elias Hector in questions Channel right okay so he asks any ideas why the available soil was bought at the same time Bean was returned to Peg you know in those seasons well I I was again I wasn't paying that close attention but I can I would guess that once the price has been converted to Peg uh the the expectation is that there's going to be less soil The Following season and therefore someone shows whereas before if the price is is below Peg there's an expectation that there's no rush to sow because there's some active price Discovery happening and therefore there was no rush to sell and there is something to be said for perhaps there does need to be some decrease in the available soil in close to real time based on converts because it's not necessarily efficient for being stuck to lend beans at that point I'm also not sure if that was the case but if I was to take a guess maybe that is some bot or or a soil Bud that looks at a certain um and prices one of the inputs to it again I'm making it up so I I wasn't paying that close attention but that would that would be what makes sense me neither um I'm not sure if it was about or not okay we'll give it we'll give it some time and and folks please feel free to drop your questions up and down in the town hall chat cool also just while we have everyone we're just kind of shout out there's lots of like Dev work that can be done and so if you're a like a Dev or no really high quality Dev that wants to work uh on or around Beanstalk like definitely reach out to us or mod or chat or anyone because there's lots going on so uh we're really excited about it and think there's lots there's lots of jobs on the bean farm at the moment as we understand it so I want to help uh just make a shout out and facilitate that and that's across different skills whether it's front-end back end and so on video production all sorts of definitely video production if anyone if anyone knows or anyone does videos reach out to me all right Tyler B asks what do you think about Beanstalk offering Bean loans is this something that is possible to be to be done in the future so I have a lot of thoughts but they're really not well formed and currently I think we're just doing our research basically on how this should how how loans on or around Beanstalk should generally function or how we think they should function I think it's it's a huge economics question and as we've always said this is an economics experiment and I mean to be perfectly Frank this was one of those questions that went originally designing the the core Peg maintenance model it was like well this is one of those questions that you hope to be able to at some point spend the time to answer because it's so it's like the it's like the next question after you have some decentralized non-collateralized stable coin it's like well now how do you have uh derivatives in lending more importantly a money market on top of it it's it's an incredibly fun question to be thinking about and we we're we're doing some reading and homework and we're excited to hopefully within the next couple months be able to talk about this in an eloquent or thoughtful manner but at the moment really just feel like we're still doing our homework and don't have any any strong thoughts but one thing that is for sure is it's impossible to prevent these prod you know these things from happening and therefore it's just a question of what if anything should be a part of Beanstalk or how should things be built in such a way that uh it's as as likely as possible that Beanstalk can over over the long run create Peg maintenance but the point is the core Peg maintenance model is the focus and derivatives and and money markets and all sorts of other uh and I say that uh you know with a smile on my face that that it should really all be secondary to to the peg maintenance model and therefore from our perspective we're more inclined to uh work with others that are going to build this stuff on top of Beanstalk and try to try to encourage them to build stuff that is permissionless and zero fee and think Root's doing a great job of that uh to kind of leading leading the way and bean sprout has accelerated that a lot and we we're very thrilled with all that progress but in general from our perspective right now a lot of our brain power is still on let's just make really trying to get to the bottom of some of those theoretical questions around what should Beanstalk be optimizing around and what are the right tools to do that and then how to create a scalable architecture that can facilitate that and uh these are all open questions so the money market is it's a major one and it's a different question it's uh my bedside reading at the moment is is about money markets just personally so it's something that I'm thinking about Lots but it's it's not it's not gonna happen anytime soon that I at least I don't think we'll have any any particularly eloquent thoughts in the next week or two I I I'd be shocked uh But continuing to think about it constantly the next question comes from uh Cryptid Earth and he asks phobios has looked into chicken bones and whether that's it is applicable to being to be in stock uh uh took a brief look at it uh yeah I thought it was cool it uses a lot of the similar incentive structures uh as the I mean it to some extent has some I I'm not remembering whether it was the silo or the field uh but it had some beanstalk-like elements I think it was The Silo uh and I could be wrong about that I'm making it up I shouldn't talk if I'm just talking out of my ass but uh at the time thought it was pretty cool and it's it you know I can I can maybe help for the Refresher yeah help me out man if you the their idea was that um people coming together and then you know they all accrue whatever yield is there but if someone leaves uh before a certain time period Then they just leave with their principal capital and they leave their yield to others so you know if you check it out I mean from our perspective things like that are just they're cool uh in theory you know when implemented permissionlessly and believe that the chicken Bonds were they can be done as like a wrapper on top of beans uh in a pretty easy fashion probably uh maybe maybe on top of roots in a really easy fashion because roots are an erc20 token so that could be like a fun a fun thing that could be done but don't really have any thoughts as to how it could be applied to the pay maintenance model or or the money market per se on creditors we uh the bean pod had or we did a podcast with the chicken bonds or the liquidity team um so that that could be something for you to listen to if interested cryptoders asks when will the voice mod be back it's just a pain in the ass to have to carry it around like this huge microphone so it probably won't be there we're really committed to the anonymity guys we were we're in it for Beanstalk you know so uh to some extent it's like at this point there's so much pretense around going back to the voice and what it's like you know what are we doing so I appreciate the the the spirit of it I'm sure you guys are sick and tired of hearing my voice so uh certainly uh I'm sorry about that but uh you know what are you gonna do um definitely not Austin asks theoretically when does it make sense for a protocol or a Marketplace to denominate things and beings versus denominating roots assuming the truth is fbdv FDB well that's a great question I think you'll probably have it's a great question at some point it probably makes sense to have like a Bean root pool of some sort and then you can have everything priced in beams because at the end of the at the end of the day you probably want although I could be wrong on this you probably want like the Pod Marketplace and the deposit Marketplace and the fertilizer Marketplace all of those to be priced in beans and not not instead of roots that that would be what I would think would that depend on how big is the the market cap on on my market cap I mean the amount that it's liquid so it depends on the size of the beans that are available to be used or you know the roots that are available to be used yeah and I mean frankly don't think it's likely that root becomes like a huge part of being liquidity although maybe we're totally wrong on that front uh maybe we're totally wrong on that front uh but hopefully things are are built in a way where deposits and plots are sufficiently easily integrable such that you don't need an erc20 wrapper for everything uh and you can just use your deposits and use your plots uh and then everything just is denominated in beams and once you have liquid stock I think it's also much easier to denominate your deposits in bdb because you have some premium of stock which you could liquidate or you can always withdraw the beans so there's probably going to be a deposit Market I mean at the end of the day it makes sense to denominate things in the stable coin itself whereas root is going to continue to increase in value over time uh it probably makes sense to denominate things in beams which is what people still care about dollars so beans are packed to a dollar probably makes sense to denominate things and and B Amia asks um and he I guess he has he's bringing up the idea of the thought of changing or rebalancing the Android asset seats and he asks if we need to find a coder to implement that and that is correct jonio and if you can recommend or find or know someone that can help with that please reach out to the team so from our perspective we're more than happy to help with that process but it's implementing like a short-term change to the seeds uh that's that's not a focus of ours we're obviously happy to help anyone that wants to work on that but that's not something that we're gonna do ourselves uh however as part of the general upgrade to The Silo that hopeful should be ready in q1 or sometime that Beanstalk Farms is working on at the moment uh that should facilitate uh the a change in the in the seeds for bdb so at the moment you could say that is in development but for some time late q1 probably uh and if someone wanted to work on that as a short-term fix uh we'd be happy to help facilitate that type of bit uh but but uh aren't aren't currently working on that so to answer you explicitly yes uh it would be great if if someone wanted to step up and try to Dev that themselves and we we'd obviously help out thank you Austin asks if you denominate a bet on a root Market in beans rather than roots how do you benefit from the positive carry of goons uh you wouldn't per se uh you denominated in in Roots in that case that's the reason to implement Roots uh the thing that that you might want to do is bet your your deposits and then you can dep like that the the underlying pdv you can bet the stock in theory you should be able to bet the the just the yield during the time that things have been bet there's lots of different ways that you could want to bet things in a fully composable universe but certainly to start in order to get the yield in an easy way it makes sense to to use roots Johnny asks what is roots Roots is is a fungible deposit so now that you have beans deposit in The Silo um you can transfer them in the future uh hopefully to a root contract and then you would get you know a fungible uh FDB or what we call as roots and then you can use that you know elsewhere to do other things uh starting with uh doing things in the in the root uh protocol or that would uh Market so going back again put this to that then if fruits are the only way to let's say use um deposits in The Silo and then the majority of beans uh are in The Silo then you'd expect protocols that want to utilize that to denominate in in Roots and not in beans does that correct until there's exactly until there's a way to easily use deposits it definitely makes sense to denominate things in Roots all right okay um we're at the end of the Town Hall questions uh or chat again so let's let's give it some time and if others have more questions on what we've been discussing or anything else feel free to drop it there maybe Austin follows up and he says that he's not sure how stable the road price would be do you want to comment on that probably is how how would the price of fruits change or how do you expect it to change sure so as we understand so Roots currently being audited and that that version of the root token basically makes it such that uh you can deposit any deposit and the root tokens that you receive is a a function of the when you when you mint the root tokens anyone can mint them anyone can redeem them uh when you mint the root Tokens The Roots tokens that you receive based on the deposits that you uh give to the contract to Mint Roots is the minimum of the change in percentage bdv of the contract the percentage of stock and the percentage of seeds and therefore unless you're adding uh deposits at the exact ratio of bdb to stock to seeds that the contract currently has uh and it works similarly on the Redemption you're basically leaking value anytime you meant a redeem to the people that stay in the contract uh the result is that you'd expect root because Roots also earning being yield that the root token would would basically trade where there's some base bdv of the contract below which it wouldn't trade below so the value of roots would be some equivalent to the beans that are underlying it plus some premium you'd expect because of the additional stockers seeds on that bdv that have been leaked by by people on mints or redemptions now you can Envision a world where Roots trade at a discount to the bdv uh very briefly but because of the ability to redeem uh you wouldn't really expect that to happen uh for an extended period of time because you you could redeem an average at at the exact ratio and then sell for being so you you wouldn't really expect it to trade at a discount per se because there's some some Arbitrage there but uh because of the the illiquidity of deposits right now there's no deposit Market where you could really get liquidity without burning the the stock maybe that wouldn't be the case so uh maybe maybe you could have a situation where the root token traded at a discount to the bdb but uh you'd probably expect it if things were were healthy to trade at a slight premium and also follows up how would Silo rewards be claimed for a deposits sitting in the root contract uh anyone can call the earn function on behalf of root and then root just earns its beans and it's basically distributed across all of the root tokens and there's no increase in the number of root tokens but there is an increase in the bdv per root so that that would result in an increase of uh in the beans per root in terms of price and then you can claim basically that that root for the underlying beans what you would expect it to be more than than one or more than one beam problems um can you help us understand how revitalized stock and seeds are calculated so when when the price of beans um or the price of being was below one Farmers noticed that revitalized stock and Seed increased can you help us understand the relationship on on why why did that happen or why does it change basically I'm going to ask that Publius hops up here and and helps me if possible because I don't want a bunch of this okay I think um he's not with us so maybe we'll ask we'll ask that question or get that answered um at another time yeah uh apologies I didn't have a chance to really look into the answer there uh since it was asked but know that it was answered and so just just haven't had the bandwidth apologies for that that's fine all right we will give it a few more minutes if others uh have other questions and once again it can be about anything uh whether we discuss it or not all right so I'm looking at the white paper and the the thing that changed is the percentage of fertilizer that was sold because of the converts as I understand it so perhaps next time uh publics can give a more thorough uh either I'll do it or they'll do it uh but the the punch line is that there was a change in the percentage of fertilizer sold which is a function of the number of LP tokens that there are and or being three curve LP tokens that there are and because there was a an unripe conversion that changed the the the percentage of fertilizer that was sold such that there was a change in the revitalized stock and seeds that is also my understanding because it looks it looks at the the value of the of the lp token or the bdv of it and that changes but we'll wait for the for the answer yeah this is section 7.3.1 and 7.3.2 in the white paper for people that are interested just that it's it's so hard to read that you know I gotta read it before I I talk about it apologies even though I wrote it so it's like a joke but it's just uh too many variables yeah I think there'll be a few Smiles there if Publius is uh thinks that about the white paper then no hard feelings to others it's not intentional it's as simple as humanly possible but it's like you know yeah it's very painful this these formulas were so complicated to write properly so you know now it's like this was months ago and kind of out of the brain so sorry for having to review it quickly but think that's generally how it works and if uh I mean we can give a more thorough walk through next class if people would find that helpful definitely shout out in the in the town hall if people want that okay we'll see also suggests or things that would be cool to have a format of the white paper where you can click on Hover on variables and then learn what that is rather than having to scroll all the way down to the velocity definitely that's a great idea okay I think we're at the end of the questions for today's class thank you everyone for joining us on Publius as always thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions thank you man take care bye-bye