📖

Beanstalk University Class #43

Date
September 20, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Reintroducing the original convert • 3:25 How can we improve the incentive to convert below peg? • 10:50 Is there any worries about the length of the podline? • 13:44 Struggling to find unripe assets • 17:21 Will there be an auto-convert feature? • 21:56 Publius’ thoughts on Vitalik’s blog post • 23:26 Updates around BIP-24 • 25:04 Closing statements
Type
Beanstalk University

Recordings

Notes

Reintroducing the original convert

  • The question asked if there could be a way to deposit liquidity into the Silo by depositing a whitelisted asset and pairing it with an existing BDV deposit, without losing the accrued stalk from the existing deposit.
  • That is how the original convert worked when it was introduced, and was not implemented as part of the replant because the goal was to get Beanstalk replanted sooner rather than later.
  • This feature should be reimplemented when the wells are introduced.

How can we improve the incentive to convert below peg?

  • There is still a lot of friction around conversions due to the trading fees in the Curve pool and that should be removed entirely by the wells implementation.
  • The UI is a bit confusing when converting unripe assets.
  • The implementation of a Stalk and Seed gauge system where the system can target an optimal balance of various Silo assets should improve incentives.

Is there any worries about the length of the Pod Line?

  • It’s a good thing to be worried about. The one way Beanstalk fails is that the Pod Rate is too high, the Pod Line is too long, and there is no willingness to lend to Beanstalk at a reasonable rate.
  • In the current situation, the temperature has come down significantly since replant, and there has been willingness to lend to the protocol. It’s not clear exactly what the optimal temperature is, but it is probably a bit higher than it is now. But given there has been willingness to lend, it is hard to know where that level ultimately is.

Struggling to find unripe assets

  • Any pre-exploit participant now has unripe assets. If you had them in the Silo, they have been automatically deposited back in the Silo on your behalf. If they were in your circulating balance, you will have to Pick them in the UI and then they will be in your wallet.

Will there be an auto-convert feature?

  • There’s nothing stopping someone from creating a wrapper around deposits and converting them at the same time. In practice, the better way to do this would be with a convert order book, where farmers can input a price at which they are willing to convert. That is going to be something that is facilitated by Tractor, which is effectively a generalized permission system, such that farmers can authorize smart contracts to convert on their behalf.

Updates around BIP-24

  • Final report was submitted today. Hope to have a draft of the BIP today, which will include all information relevant for discussion.
  • Two other BIPs are in the pipeline: the Immunify bounty program, and the Q4 budget.

Transcript

so we started the question from Brian and his question is about you know when when the Beanstalk decks uh is out and he's thinking about motor that's the ability to add maybe one-sided liquidity so let's say that you already have beans in The Silo and then you have you know any asset that's traded against beans so in in today's case let's say you have some three curve tokens in the future you might have some Eve and you would like to be able to deposit that into The Silo and combine it basically or pair it with the beans that you have in decided to create an LP token um can you share some thoughts on that well not sure exactly what what the question is to be frank is it maybe I should just read what Brian wrote hold on I'm just going to read it out loud for everyone but problem I have once the Beanstalk decks is out say that I have naked being in The Silo as well as eat outside of The Silo I am bullish being and want to pair the Bean with my eth to make beneath LP currently I would have to withdraw my bean re-lp it and redeposit in order to gain stuff currently I would have to withdraw my being re-lp it and redeposit in order to gain stock There's an opportunity cost associated with this as I have grown stock from the naked Dean deposit while I am able to convert Bean into beanies LP when Delta B is greater than zero I'd like to have a way to introduce each Capital without being restricted on Delta B conditions uh so the his proposed solution is to allow Farmers to pair their with the beam to create beneath LP without losing stuff in short uh this was actually a convert feature that existed as part of the original convert once convert was introduced uh and it may even be older than that uh it may even be older than that but the the point is this was just something that wasn't part of the implementation around replant because the goal was to get Beanstalk replanted sooner rather than later and that's sort of a bell and whistle but absolutely a fan of re-implementing that feature okay great maybe I'm just going to summarize the question again um because we spoke a bit about it so if I have an asset that is traded against beans and I have beans inside The Silo hopefully in the future I will be able to directly pair it with you know the binders in The Silo and create an LP talk in this and decide is that correct correct now in practice you'll be able to add I mean I understand what he's saying because he wants he wants to be able to convert the being in The Silo into LP independent of the price so this would be a different this would be a different convert which uh was not was not included in the replant version of Beanstalk but could be added for for sure okay and and yes we have also pulled this commenting that that makes sense to be re-added in the future uh or when the walls are released all right the next question is from NASDAQ uh and he asks on how can we improve the incentives for converting when we're below pack he observes or sees uh that you know some participants may not want to convert uh just given the amount that stock that you would win or the amount of stock that you would gain um is is not enough to the amount of seeds that you will lose in that conversion and then he you know recommends the things that a solution could be that when you're converting below tag you retain your four seeds and then you know maybe maybe you can go back from there any thoughts on that and and we've briefly discussed these uh points uh before I guess so there's a lot of friction uh below around conversion still uh from our perspective it seems like the largest friction is around spreading fees in the in the curve pool and that that should be uh removed entirely by the the well implementation with zero fees so that's one thing that can be done and is being done uh in order to make converting above and below pack more attractive now one thing that seems to I I forget where we we were pointed to it from but it seems like the the website doesn't do the best job of showing uh the convert between unripe assets and given that the vast majority of uh the vast majority of Assets in The Silo right now are unripe assets and the convert below Peg is from on ride P3 curve to unripe Bean uh there there's a in short each unripe being three curve uh doesn't correlate to one being three curve LP it it correlates to about 0.99 being three curve LP and so when you're converting to 0.99 being three curve LP to unripe beans uh that's why when on the UI you see it when you're converting it seems like you're losing unripe assets uh it seems like it's a little bit confusing for some people now nasdaq's point that you're not gaining a lot of stock for the convert uh that's primarily a function of the trading fee in the pool and the fact that you're you're paying like four bips uh in addition I mean that that's pretty costly when we're talking about uh right now the price is trading at uh not 0.9932 so if you're going to start buying beans back to Peg and you're paying uh four basis points that's uh eating significantly into your convert uh Arbitrage bonus or whatever you want to call it so that I think that's the the first thing that can be done uh beyond that uh the implementation of the stock and Seed gauge system whereby the bean stock system can Target an optimal a balance of various assets uh that will obviously have a maybe obvious isn't the best word but uh that that system should have uh a a system where it scales up and down the seeds for beans based on the price over time uh such that if there's a a need to increase the the bonus for converting uh in terms of seeds that you have to Forfeit that that is something that can become variable whereas right now it's fixed so that would probably happen as part of the stock age system but in general the the concept that it's a problem that being stuck is issuing debt in order to clear some of the the negative Delta B not sure that's really a problem in practice uh it it's the weather's excuse me the temperature is still pretty high so there are a lot of PODS being issued when people sell but nonetheless it hasn't really affected the Pod rate significantly and while the goal is to maximize the effectiveness of convert there's nothing wrong with uh there's nothing wrong with a delay in the converts and not being the the most efficient such that someone who's trying to dump you knows that they're going to just get to sell all of them at a dollar because there may be there may be some unwillingness to convert for a period of time and that's totally okay so uh it feels like being stuck has come a long way or the question is how to make it more stable uh and make make converts more attractive when the price uh hasn't created more than a cent in the past couple of weeks but nonetheless as as you all know we're big fans big uh of good better best and uh while the system is getting better and better uh it can continue to be made uh better and better it's maybe the better thing to say uh so yeah lots of lots of improvements on the on the on the convert both on the upside and the downside that can be made okay let's see if we can summarize a few of these points so to start off one Android LP token does not equal one LP token so it like initially this this might cause some confusion so when people are about one Android Beam is equal to one right being so um or one being so when people are converting or even participants are converting from Android to right and then they see that the amount of tokens are like reducing that is not really that is more of like it is not cleared on the UI itself that's the first point probably is correct correct all right then the second point is the amount of stock that you are gaining when you do that convert and right now it may not be a lot because most of uh you know the gain uh is is being taken or distributed in LP fees so hopefully when we move to our own Wells and we have our own amm the amount of stock might be you know more just given that most or all of the uh uh the spread is going to go towards the arbitrager or the person who's converting then lastly as the amount of seeds that you're losing in that convert and in here I guess is we're thinking about what is what is the Improvement but given that when uh if we or when we move to engage uh like system then we'll have more freedom or the way to uh let's say get around that uh point of friction or improve it in order to be able to make convert uh more let's say direct or seamless did I miss anything else Publius uh that's correct now there are probably more things that can be done but those are the ones that come to move it okay all right let's see the next question the next question is one that we might have addressed a few times before but no harm in an addressing again and that has to do with the length of the pot line like I guess the question is always the same you know are there any worries about how long the pot line is or how long will it take to clear the pot line well on the one hand it's a good thing to be worried about right the the one-way Beanstalk fails is that the Pod line the Pod rate is too high the Pod line is too long and uh there's there's no no willingness to lend to be in stock at a reasonable rate so that should always be a concern now what is the the current situation uh well it seems like the temperature has come down pretty significantly since replant and over the past day or so since the the slight d-pag there hasn't been a significant willingness to lend to the protocol there was for a bit but there hasn't been since and uh in particular not a lot of the the willingness to lend the protocol actually created demand for beans and in short it's unclear at what the what what the efficient temperature is right now uh such that it would start to attract a significant amount of lenders at this point but it's uh it's probably a little bit higher than it currently is but uh given that there's been a willingness to go into the protocol over the past couple of weeks it's unclear exactly where that efficient weather is uh again because of the small size excuse me I didn't say that before but uh the the small size of the amount of soil before compared to the the relatively large amount of soil available right now so well it'll be interesting to see where that temperature ultimately Settles but uh you know no real comment on the the Pod line or the Pod rate at this point yep and I guess when um one that is more soil available all of all of these things will solve itself and then we'll be able to accurately tell what is the right temperature out of the temperature is at the right level um Rose I see as you asked or you raised raise your hand I invited you up on the stage to speak so feel free whenever you want to come and ask your question okay um Bros sent me a question um we can maybe quickly take it in here so she's asking about she's saying that she's struggling to find her Beanstalk assets since replant and it's asking for some help to direct that I think we can we can send you some documentation rows that might help with that but just briefly answering that any pre-exploit participant now have unripe assets um if you had them in The Silo they should have been automatically deposited for you or on your behalf uh in The Silo so if you if you just connect to the binsock app using your wallet and and check your salary deposits you should see some underwrite assets there if they were in your circulating balances then it should be in your in your you'll have to pick them in the UI and then they will be on your uh or in your wallet okay um Katie I can hear you okay so I actually did try that I connected my wallet um I was doing defy quite regularly up until the mishap happened with bean and then I have been on the height I was away in Europe and came back and just been busy with other stuff um but one thing I did try was to go into my account and look for the unripe beans um and I didn't see I was not successful I followed the steps I read the entire instruction that was sent to me and so I feel like maybe offline not on this call but this was my best opportunity to jump on and get some attention um I would really appreciate some one-on-one help I feel like that I went through depths and there is my assets were not I wasn't able to see them I wasn't able to pick them according code I'm not sure what that means sure thing um if you can DM me I'm gonna we're happy happy to give you or look into it uh um one-on-one um I'll director as well to to some farmers who can help you sounds great thank you I'll message you another time thank you all right um the next question probably is asks before we move on just want to shout out that in the town hall track Cthulhu uh introduced the concept of like a like a a Delta P bonus during seasons based on the t-wop uh or the Oracle price uh maybe the Delta B it depends on who you want to think about it but where during Seasons where the prices particularly High the the the Delta be paid to The Silo can be distributed more to LP token holders for example in order to incentivize conversions from Beans to LP and you can have a like a vice versa type of situation where when the price is too low more of them more of the Delta B is distributed uh to to billions but obviously when the Delta B is too low there there aren't any distributions to being so it's interesting to think about how that would work uh on the downside per se but uh yeah interesting idea yeah I think there are a few ways to tackle to tackle the on this problem and this is an interesting one all right the question was um about Auto conversion so um there has been some some talks on maybe uh there were a bit of a of a discussion on the details of it but we can just like look into the to the overall or the general idea uh and the general idea is auto convert so you know the way that it was presented that there's going to be some sort of a pool and that pool has Auto conversion in it and then participants can can you know um um deposit or or fund that pool irrespective of how how is it done what do you think about Auto conversion Publius so the short answer is that in this short term there's nothing that can stop someone from creating a rapper uh uh around deposits and then just you know converting all of them at any given time now in practice uh the the better way to do this is really a convert order book where people can farmers who have deposits can basically input a price at which they are willing to convert uh their LP tokens and their opinions uh and that should be facilitated by what's being called tractor which is effectively a generalized permission system such that uh farmers can authorize smart contracts to convert on their behalf at given prices such that you can have a convert order book in practice that's just uh probably a couple months away but in the short term you know there's nothing that can stop it from happening but it's probably not not great for the health of being stock in terms of Peg maintenance do you think it's problematic to have those conversion points uh public so there's a difference between not knowing when people you know have the appetite to convert and it's like an order book there's nothing wrong with an order book okay so you think there's nothing wrong in knowing I guess an order book can be can be updated uh which which takes effect on it but what about you know some sort of a pool where you already know how all of that capital is going to behave and at one point yeah that's the difference right so if it's like an individualized order book where you have some sort of Market curve being created that's fundamentally different and if you have a pool that's just a mass convert now in practice again there's nothing that can really prevent prevent that from happening but uh the more composable the tech stack on Beanstalk such that farmers can retain their own uh their own assets the more likely it is that that doesn't that doesn't get get uh get significant in terms of Silo uh exposure and effect being stocks Peg maintenance but it's certainly uh one potential tragedy of the commons issue around being stuck and it's one of the reasons why over time it does make sense to make stock liquid to make seeds liquid to build out a full deposit interface search that protocols can interact with being stocked so an example of where this becomes a problem is like the fungible deposited being how to handle converts of all the silo assets uh how to handle uh governance around uh those assets that are now in this wrapper contract so uh lots of technical short-term problems to solve around even a basic rapper such that you have an erc20 version of a bean if uh but the hope is over time to to to have a full a full interface for deposits such that there's no need to wrap them and then that that solves a lot of the issues all right and on the Royal side of champ uh posted some uh some sort of uh like an instruction set on how how to claim your assets and he also asks you to reach out to him by DM if if you need further help um sorry who who posted that you'll find it on the town hall chat so the channel goes right right above us or where we at right now Silo child right yep okay sounds great okay thank you you're welcome okay the next question comes from Canadian Bennett probius and he he shared um an article that's uh or a blog post uh by vitalik I think that went out today and you know that that article discusses a few topics about governance and you know press articles as well and and he had some thoughts uh or questions about it not sure probably if you're aware of it and if you got the chance to read it if not maybe we can summarize some of these points and and briefly discuss them uh I have not had a chance to read it okay I read it quickly as well so maybe if I summarize these things I may not do it accurately but we try we try to discuss honestly I'd rather not I'd rather not discuss something I haven't read sure thing okay so Canada maybe we can have have that answer uh or that question uh answered later okay we're at the end of the Eternal question uh tunnel chat we can give it a minute or two if anyone else has other questions terrible asks what the deal with better is we had Smoky on our Discord a few hours ago and I think we had some sort of uh it was like an introductory code it was a bit um productive there is a recording to that coil I'm not sure if it's out yet or not but you can listen to it and um catch up there third boy hairsmith asks when is bip 24 any updates there so uh it took a little longer than we had expected but the final report from halborn was submitted today so the hope is to drop a draft of the we were speaking to Mr manifold about it earlier today the the hope is uh to for them to drop a a draft of the bip today uh and include the halborn report and the code and uh all relevant information around the bip for discussion and then uh that'll that'll hopefully last for a couple days and then there will be a formal proposal so that's the timeline there and then there's actually two other bips that uh we're aware of that are in the pipeline one is the the uh the Beanstalk Bounty program The immunify Bounty program bip uh that's that's almost ready to go as we understand it and then there's uh the Q4 budget dip as well that uh should also probably uh a draft of that should be proposed pretty soon as we understand it so uh 24 25 26 those all hopefully will go out sometime this week uh so lots lots of stuff happening yep and Kenneth Bennett said that the recording from beta the better code will be up after but after class okay I think we're at the end of the questions here probably is as always thank you for your time and everyone else thank you for joining and we'll see you next week thank you man