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Transcript

obviously the topic on everyone's mind is that about an hour ago we paused beanstalk and we didn't do this with any pleasure certainly but we felt like this was for a couple different reasons when you look at the cost and benefits uh it seemed prudent to to take swift action so to give first a little history on how we've handled things like this in the past because there have been the date or other instances where we've had to push code uh to fix bugs to the beanstalk contract and each time we announced it as soon as we made the push and explain the issue and in all of those instances while we were working on the fix we never paused being stuck and just to restate because this is important and maybe we should have led with this but beanstalk is designed to run in a fully decentralized fashion today beanstalk is still in what we would call an infant stage and when you're dealing with infants they need a lot of neck support and you've got to hold their head and for better or worse there are still to date other than the issue that has become evident today all of the other issues were on the order of 1 000 beans give or take and it could be a little bit more it could be a little bit less but in each of those instances it didn't seem like it was a substantial amount of beans being misallocated and therefore instead of pausing and you know we've we debated whether it made sense to pause at that time we decided given the small magnitude uh we felt it was okay uh for us to work on the fix while there was the issue and it's important to note that in basically well in all four of those other instances there are much fewer beings being minted at the time we were aware of the issue and the important thing to note is that the magnitude of the issue or at least the extent to which it is realized is largely a function of how quickly being stuck is growing and in the past we were made aware of those issues when beanstalk was growing either much much more slowly and consistently or not at all and that made it a much more comfortable environment to work on the fix without having to pause being stuck in this case and you know this makes the the need to pause uh even more unfortunate uh beanstalk was growing rapidly uh over the past day certainly and uh specifically over the past at like six hours and we were we were made aware of the issue around that time and once we verified that there was something going on given the magnitude of the beans that were being printed and it seems like the magnitude of the misallocations on a wallet to wallet level uh you know if beanstalk goes on to mint 10 million beans in the next day well this issue is not correct you know we could be looking at instead of 10 000 beans being misallocated like had been the case in the past uh you know potentially million beans or more and that seemed to us to be a significant uh cost now ultimately the benefit of stopping that uh has to be weighed against uh and we were sent at least one message uh saying that they strongly disagreed with the decision the unilaterally pause beanstalk uh given that being stuck is supposed to be decentralized and we recognize that this is sub-optimal and ultimately while we can recognize that the long-term goal is to have beanstalk be a hundred percent decentralized have multiple development teams working on being stock have been stock contracts running on independent blockchains uh and have uh obviously have uh ownership privileges removed from puglius's wallet um so that no one has unilateral control over the beanstalk contracts um but we would note that the this unilateral privilege can be removed at any time by a bip and we are hopeful that beanstalk continues to develop such a strong community an active community around it such that uh in the not too distant future that is possible one thing that will go a really long way to helping alleviate these issues is getting an audit and audits are expensive as is evidenced by the two proposals uh big four and dip five which we've uh put drafts of in their respective channels um and have been receiving feedback from the community and uh you know we're gonna hopefully make uh either one or both of those proposals in the next couple days uh and get those audits going because getting being stuck audited by really high quality auditors and amnesia is fabulous and was very impressive to us and trail of bits is the gold standard for smart contract audits and really blew our socks off um we think we'll go a really long way to alleviating the need for some of these privileges and obviously these issues become more apparent as being stuck rose and so to some extent beanstalk has benefited from being small and now as it appears being stuck is growing much more quickly which in general is a great thing uh these issues are presenting themselves in slightly larger fashion and so one thing we'll definitely be interested in is feedback from the community on the decision to pause it uh the alternative would have been to propose a bip deposit which would have taken at least 24 hours to pass with a supermajority and ultimately that is you know in 24 hours that would have been a big issue potentially and in terms of the magnitude of the misprint so that was the choice whether to propose a bib to pause or to just pause it ourselves and given how how many beings were potentially being disallocated given how quickly beanstalk was growing today uh we wanted to pause it now just to talk a little bit about what we're thinking going forward because the goal is to get beanstalk unpaused immediately and to that extent you know i'm here but publius usually there's there's two of us two accounts live like we're working our assets off to get this resolved uh in general the mechanism to the the cause of this complexity which has been the focus of all of these bugs that we've had to push is that you want to make beanstalk support automatic compounding and so when you have farmable beans we want farmable beans to have a grow farmable stock and we don't want just the we don't want people to have to farm every season uh and it's important to note that the original bean stock implementation supported 100 auto compounding and there was no grown stock at all uh which obviously your everyone here is familiar with like what's grown stock uh it's a it's a remnant of bip zero which uh had to be implemented because uh the cost to update your silo was increasing linearly over time and based on the way we had originally implemented the the code to facilitate automatic compounding uh without needing to farm any stock at all and it ultimately led to way way too high gas costs uh to update your silo to a prohibitive extent and so so that was why we proposed changing the model to grown stock and uh since then uh since making that change where the you ultimately need to farm your grown stock which grow from your seeds that you've already farmed uh you know since we made that change uh there's been a couple of issues and uh to date they've all been very small but uh this one seemed to be uh significantly larger and so we wanted to we wanted to make sure that if you know and it seems like there are going to be millions of beans minted in the near future um we wanted to make sure that that was done properly and so uh just looking ahead a little bit uh and then obviously we're happy to answer any and all questions there are kind of two options one is uh we can temporarily make it so that uh your farmable beans do not grow farmable stock and again that was the automatic compounding element that we left in so that there was still some sort of compounding uh after bit zero and ultimately what this will lead to is just uh your grown stock uh will accrue faster and you it'll in practice it will make sense for your for you to update your silo more frequently um which is obviously a pain in the butt given gas cost um but that that is a much much simpler implementation and it will it would facilitate us to get a working implementation you know ready to go live in the next hour or two like a hundred percent or at least tonight you know in the next six hours we could have it rigorously tested and ready to go and another question for the community is whether we should just push the fix or uh unpause or propose a bip on pause which then would take uh 24 hours to be approved by stockholders and so that's another thing we have to weigh here and other than uh again making it so that your farmable beans do not grow farmable stock uh in order to keep the mechanism as it works currently that would require uh a lot more work on our part just in the next couple days to make sure that it's implemented correctly and that that would imply that being stock is going to be paused for longer than a couple hours or a day and that's probably not ideal in our opinion but uh we are very uh interested in hearing what uh everyone else thinks so that sort of what's going on uh we just want to reiterate you know we don't necessarily know that pausing beanstalk was the right decision uh but we are doing our absolute best to do right by our like members of the community and we felt like people especially when beanstalk was really starting to grow rapidly we felt like it was wrong for there to be large misallocations to farmers and maybe just a last note before we open up to questions is this doesn't if we kind of think about where beanstalk is before it was paused and after from an economics perspective it will be in the exact same position with the exception between now and when it's unpaused there is an opportunity for potentially more people to buy or sell beans if they have circulating beans or want to buy beans with other assets um and so you could have some price discovery here but given the discrete nature of the system and the way it progresses every season we sort of have an expectation that a lot of that has already happened uh at least on the sell side and therefore the only thing that could potentially happen is a little bit more demand for beans uh which would just mean that once we unpause the system prints a little bit faster than it otherwise would but that seemed to us to be a marginal cost relative to potentially lots of bean farmers getting uh you know like totally incorrect allocations during this growth cycle and uh we really we really didn't want that to happen so that was sort of the that's a summary of our decision-making process and we hope that we hope that it is acceptable to you guys and if it's not we will accept that as well and change our process going forward and you know with that in mind if anyone has questions uh you know feel free to raise your hand and we'll try to get to any everybody you just sent you an invite pull market i yeah i was um so what exactly happened that that led to to the issue do you know and then secondly i think that absolutely in this situation you guys should be able to shut down positive beanstalk because um you know it's not at a point really where the rest of the community could have done anything to stop this quickly but really what i'm curious is what what uh what do you guys think led to this issue what exactly was that issue besides the misallocation so one of the reasons we decided to pause in stock is because we don't actually yet know exactly what is causing the issue but the first thing that we wanted to understand was the magnitude of the issue and it seemed to be again significantly larger than previous issues so we basically as soon as we verified that there was an issue and it was uh likely much larger than previous issues we decided to pause and now we're digging uh deeper into the cause and you know we we will certainly be providing more information uh in the near future but in general it's a continuation of the other issues where we've had to push bug fixes to the contract uh this one just happened to be uh of a larger magnitude yeah and just to be clear um and we're happy to go into more detail into the structure of the contract but speaking at a detailed level is probably not the most constructive thing at the moment because that would require us to sort of walk through the entire mechanics of the beanstalk contract and that would take an extensive amount of time and we you know that's probably not the right setting for this and for that we would also want uh sort of all of us to be here um to make sure that we were giving everyone sort of a complete breakdown um but if if and we're happy to do that you know at some point in the near future if people feel that's appropriate or desired all right no thank you um again i think you know we're all invested in this ideally the situation we get and it doesn't really seem to be a way that it would get fixed without you guys stepping in and pausing it so i appreciate what you guys put together here thank you for your question and thank you for your support we really really appreciate it and we are committed to fixing this as soon as possible hey there can you hear me yeah he can hear you how are you i'm well i'm well um so yeah i guess i would just um i i i respect the decision of course to pause the uh beanstalk but i think it would be um just because we're starting to get momentum i think probably it not being paused for you know trying to minimize the amount of time it's paused that would be my biggest concern is just try to you know solve the problem uh we can always give a breakdown later and should try to push the fix as soon as possible as soon as you guys think is reasonable that would be my input we appreciate any and all input from the community and you know we would just reiterate the trade-off there is there would be a slight modification and functionality and to date we have not pushed any changes in functionality as a publius push all of those have been through a bip um but if we propose it through a bip even if it passes with a super majority it will take 24 seasons uh to be approved and you know candidly that's something we should probably revisit um [Music] in terms of governance mechanism we're all learning here in practice uh but in general that that's just an explicit trade-off we would want to highlight as people continue to weigh in last thought on this would be in this case would we consider how would we feel about a snapshot vote just to reduce the amount of time maybe ever drafting a snapshot proposal but then class started and we obviously didn't want to be late maybe in this case other people could chime in to see if they think a snapshot proposal would be sufficient or if we should do a bit and then we could you know maybe if we have if we think we have a quorum here it's for you know maybe we could decide if a snapshot is good or if a bip should be should be used and the various tradeoffs i'll hop off the stage you can also feel free to hang out if you want like everyone's welcome to come up here and participate i think the dumblings point uh maybe even just a quick uh snapshot just to you know proceed um and then maybe later on a bit if we really need to rectify it um i think that's that's a good thought dumpling because i think we all want to obviously make the adjustment as soon as possible and then publius i was wondering too just because i know that before this all happened i'm sure we all saw the the big liquidity push um and i think uh someone just clarified in the general um thread that it wasn't just a liquidity push there was also some sewing on top of it my only um thought and or concern is um if that now farmer siloer joined the protocol and this all happened and then it froze my only concern would be if that obviously was a red flag um an internal larger liquidity withdrawal and then in turn you know we the potential for a for another start of a debt cycle um and so i don't know if there's a way i mean outside of discord for us to kind of provide notification or something like that or if it's even needed just to kind of you know keep tempers calm i think within the discord channels we've been trying to have a lot of conversation around it but obviously this is just one avenue for conversation candidly yeah you're totally right this sucks this totally sucks and you want to get it back up and running as fast as possible and we acknowledge that this sucks well i got called up on stage so i guess i'll speak thanks thanks for addressing all these concerns foolish thinking about whether or not doing a bip or a snapshot which would allow us to stop um stock to pause being stock and in the meantime we would continue running bean stock as if you hadn't executed your executive privilege as far as the solution goes is working on the i guess the somewhat acceptable short-term fix which would be pushed within the next six hours anyway and then you would uh be working on the um optimal effects which you think is going to take a few days honestly if we if we did the quick fix we would we would then re-evaluate we would then kind of ask the community whether they want that mechanism or whether they would prefer we spend time kind of working on continuing to add functionality to beanstalk because it is a marginal cost and this was sort of like a good better best we wanted no one to have to transact with beanstalk to compound their stock automatically anytime and uh then once it was live it became impractical due to gas costs uh and accordingly this problem has sort of manifested from there but this is certainly not something that we this wasn't in the original version and it's sort of been we've been playing catch up since then and we can nip the problem in the butt by disabling the the feature but you know it's a question of what people would prefer so in the short term we can disable the feature and get it live and then it's a question of should we spend you know two weeks of dev time internally adding the feature back correctly this time or should we you know in a similar amount of dev time we could do a lot of other things so uh there's a an opportunity cost to everything and we're we're we're at this we're at the the service of the community so we're very interested in hearing where people think we should be spending our our energy thank you for clarifying that uh and publius sorry i'm just a little scatterbrained myself but if in terms of removing the feature can you just reiterate again what that would actually look like for us on uh on the protocol side on um i guess on the ux side so the short answer is on the ux side i think we lost you oh we really lost you oh yeah that was a bold bold choice um well well while we've lost him uh maybe we should just chat a little bit amongst ourselves until we get him back um would people it sounds to me like maybe we should just try to get a snapshot vote up just so that we can quickly get you know get the train back on the rails and then they can take their time to work on this new feature what do you guys think let's chime in one by one perhaps and then we can decide if we should do a snapshot or a bit all right thank goodness i you know it's one of those like moment of truth you know where did i go it was horrible uh but we were able to get it back up we apologize for that um this is just a bad technology day on our end i guess so the only change in functionality is that currently when you have right now your farmable beans have farmable seeds and farmable stock and those farmable seeds are growing more farmable stock every season currently if you have not farmable seeds if you just have seeds in your wallet those seeds are going growing grown stock so there are two different seeds there's farmable seeds and there are seeds in your wallet currently the farmable seeds yield stock that is automatically compounded currently if you have seeds in it that are not farmables just normal seeds those are yielding grown stock which is not auto compounding and needs to be farmed so the difference is the amount of grown stock would increase because now your farmable beans excuse me your farmable seeds would start yielding grown stock as well instead of yielding farmable stock which is yielding interest at that time if that makes sense so it would just decrease the extent to which beanstalk is compounding a little bit further now we would reiterate there is still a compounding element where any beans that you earn farmable beans get farmable seeds in farmable stock and that varmable stock is earning interest so there is still a compounding element to it it's just a step down in the compounding and honestly as we explain it to you now it doesn't seem like that significant of a marginal cost and you know it probably does make sense to remove the feature for now and revisit it you know in the future or we're adding a lot of talent to the back end solidity team are hoping to to make some proposals to do that in the very near future and that will really help us uh you know look into adding this feature back and also maybe allowing us to spend more time on this feature if people really felt like it was important uh or maybe trying to you know there's a lot of different ways that we can play this but at this point in time it does seem like a marginal cost and it probably is best to get it up immediately but you know we're thinking about this in real time along with all of you and considering your feedback well you hopped off uh there publius we were just i was just um i brought up to the community and said maybe everyone should just chime in one by one what they thought just uh very quickly and then we could maybe make a decision i i certainly side with with you uh that removing the feature for now and just getting everything back up would make a lot of sense but i wonder what everyone else thinks i'm on stage so i'll just chime into if i if i was at this point worried about the control that you have over uh the beanstalk protocol i would have already been organizing um a bit to take that control away from you so i mean is now i mean and if someone you know is going to complain about it now i wish they had kind of noticed you've mentioned it pretty much in every announcement and had said something earlier so we could have played around these contingencies is all i'm going to say i'm fine with the situation and the way you've chosen to handle it could you just restate that one more time we didn't quite fault what would be the alternative action you would have taken if i had a problem with the authority i know that right now that you can basically i don't know how the mechanics work but you publish can submit the what is it the um the contract owner or the original contract deployer can submit a bip and make changes unilaterally right now and that at some time in the future and at some point in the future you expect that privilege to be revoked if i had wanted to revoke that privilege not you know choose this moment right now to suddenly care about it i knew you had that privilege aware of it i figure i've been thinking well at some point that privilege needs to be revoked and you know now is not necessarily the best time to be making leadership shuffling decisions when we're in a crisis if we want to change the way the community is organized it's better to do that when we're in a law it's just that's just my opinion like we're in a crisis right now it's not it's not exactly the best time to start see [Music] we appreciate that feedback aj uh p3 shoe welcome up here there just just thinking about the lens of potential users and future doctors of bean i think it might be interesting to remove the future and keep it live because i do think it is a marginal future and i agree with your assessment there so i just wanted to throw that was my two sense of trying to think of future when history looks back here i think keeping online is important unless it's a critical issue that's my two cents but uh good good luck and thanks for keeping a level head through all this just to clarify you're saying you think that in the short term it makes sense to take the future away to get it back up and running but you agree that in the long term this is a valuable thing and you know we've been fighting to good fight to say i i yes i think in the short term i i think being uh up network is important in the long term i feel like this will be valuable and maybe we should let the community decide but i i don't think this is worth the network being down over and i'm curious other people's thoughts there yeah i'm actually on the same page as uh p3 it sounded like p3 was actually suggesting as well to just keep it running the back end um and removing it from the front end to start publius but to echo aj's point i mean you've uh actually made it abundantly clear for anyone that is a newcomer within the past 24 hours or 48 hours even the past week they may not have heard you say but you've definitely made it clear for a long time that you guys are looking to kind of pull publius away from this quote-unquote executive decision maker um that you're in and obviously make it much more decentralized um that yeah again it's been very clear from a lot of the conversation that anyone that might be new may have not heard but um any conversation you would have heard in the past classes that's clearly the the goal of what we're trying to get to but given the urgency of it it makes sense uh i think um keeping it live and then passing it passing a a snapshot per dumplings recommendation is a great idea and i actually also follow your lead on this as well publius i really appreciate that and ultimately it does seem like the community has grown a lot over the past week and this isn't a great first impression so jw's you know you've been a long time community member so uh we appreciate that and we we are very serious about the importance of removing this executive control from bubleus for a lot of reasons uh you know it's ultimately a vulnerability to being stuck and the real question is you have to weigh the benefit of being able to step in and pause or fix the situation in a matter of hours at this stage of the game before beanstalk is audited uh versus not having that ability and not having the you know the vulnerability and the centralization of having one wallet but potentially able to modify the contract unilaterally so we couldn't agree more and were that's like our main from a macro perspective that's our main focus is getting beanstalk to a place where it is sufficiently decentralized and has a sufficient community uh that's deeply invested in being stuck in its long-term health that there are other that it's not necessary for for a for the contract owner to be able to unilaterally modify the contract and b when there are issues like this it will be more than just publius who's able to fix it so uh this is still very again beanstalk's incredibly young uh it's doing amazing things uh but it has issues and uh we're trying to fix them as as quickly as they come up and uh you know we understand that this this totally sucks and you know we're gonna try to fix it as soon as humanly possible head to lincoln's point of view are you able to hear me yeah go ahead i just want to echo um a lot of community members earlier at stated that you know they prioritize just getting things back online and i know that's going to be you know the probably where we spend most of tonight's conversation but what i wanted to see is if there's time i was really excited to see how much it's grown recently um and i wanted to know if you'd be able to comment on how beanstalk was handling everything from like a weather perspective a debt level perspective and it'd be interesting to know if there's you know any surprises or has everything pretty much been behaving as expected so what an incredibly welcome reprieve from the current conversation uh the maybe we can do a couple walkthroughs of some of the charts on the site because beanstalk has been going through a lot more growth recently and uh it is very interesting to see how it's handling it and in general it's all incredibly exciting and you know just for just to restate we're not big fans of uh we don't want to make statements on on our subjective opinion about the state of being stock um but obviously it's important for us to comment on how the system is behaving um so you know without venturing into the land of giving any sort of financial advice um there is sort of a couple of things that we look at and are you know very pleased by the the extent to which beanstalk is growing so uh if we pull up if everyone just pulls up the website and heads down to the to the charts area um i think the i mean obviously the undertone in all of this is the price chart um which if we go i think probably the best time horizon for this analysis is a month um and so if we start with about a month you can see that over the past 10 days or so there started to be larger oscillations above a dollar and for western when you see larger oscillations above a dollar is well how quick are the oscillations below a dollar and one of the one of the things to compare is what happened in the last uh growth cycle which was more of a pump and dump whereas this does seem to us to be much more organic growth in the community is the the length and specifically the debt level so during the first growth cycle there was no outstanding debt and accordingly when the price went too high there was basically no supply available once the circulating supply was exact like a was a was exasperated i'm losing my mind here today guys uh once this excuse me once it was exhausted there we go so once the circulating supply was exhausted uh there was no sellers effectively because of the 24 hour withdrawal time coupled with the season of plenty uh which because there was no debt uh immediately once the price was above one the rain started and the 24 season timer started so there was no reason to withdraw because you would have lost out to the sop and accordingly there was no there was no cell pressure so that that growth cycle lasted about 10 days or so and it's important to note that this growth cycle has already lasted a similar amount of time uh but at the same time uh it's been a much more moderate growth in the sense that it's had multiple returns to a dollar without a season of plenty uh it started to pay off a lot of debt which is generally a very positive sign towards beanstalk being able to generate a strong credit history and specifically the thing that you would look at and say well is this um is this a pumpkin number is the sustainable is the soil and so last time uh there was no debt and there was no soil there was no debt because there was no soil and there was no soil because beanstalk had already been sort of growing steadily at that point and didn't hadn't gone through a mini debt cycle at that point and so at this point in time because there is so much soil and so much debt um we actually have a nice way for the system to continue to deleverage and that has evidenced itself by the price returning to one without a season of plenty uh multiple times so the last thing we would say is because there's so much soil or there has been so much soil like the the not there was a 90 each so today uh which is probably the largest transaction certainly since the pumpkin dump uh and uh it was just a cell so it's not like that was a a deposit in the silo that can be withdrawn immediately and dumped instead those are pods that are going to harvest uh in the future when feedstock has a 300 million dollar plus market cap and will be in a very different situation so just looking at the price chart uh there's a lot of uh there's a story here that is very exciting and not to be sour but to be honest you know that is one of the reasons why it sucks so much that there's this issue and we hope to get it back up and running immediately so the fun can resume uh the the next thing we would look at which is very encouraging is the liquidity and separate from the actual liquidity in the liquidity pool which is a little bit skewed because of the high price what would be an even better metric for that is if you look at deposited lp in the silo and that has started to increase significantly as well over the past couple of days and in part that is from uh people uh basically taking their harvestable pods and converting it to lp uh so that's uh you know leveraging the efficiency of bip2 in order to take your harvestable pods and turn them into lp which lowers the price and increases the liquidity which increases the speed at which beanstalk is growing so uh it's it's exciting to see that people who are harvesting their pods are mainly reinvesting uh in the field reinvesting in the silo or selling above one we've seen very little harvesting and selling below one which is all generally positive in terms of looking at what is being stock uh entering a growth cycle or entering a dead cycle it seems that things have shifted in a more positive direction and then obviously if you look in the field and at the harvested pods that's where you start to see a real growth over the past month uh that has ticked up over the past week so that's all super exciting for us that bean stuff is starting to demonstrate that it's a good place to lend money and uh you know that's reflected in the the rapid growth of the podline as the pods have been harvested so it's a it's the start hopefully of a positive feedback loop and obviously getting being stuck back up and running immediately is important to making sure that the positive feedback loop continues awesome thanks that was really encouraging and it's great to hear that there is a fix that would be able to you know get beanstalk back up and running and i don't think it from what it sounds like that fix would impact any of these you know positive developments that we've seen recently we appreciate your contributions to the discussion be mac if anyone else has anything they want to add or ask or comment uh feel free to raise your hand uh we'll definitely keep this going at least another 10 minutes and maybe you know if if there's no other questions use this opportunity to do a little other housekeeping or answer any other questions that are not related to the pause but if anyone has anything else they want to add feel free to raise their hand so i guess where we'll end the conversation on that front is just to say we will uh write a snapshot proposal laying out the two options but it will be very difficult to do justice to the extent of the analysis we're able to give in long form uh by speaking uh especially given that we we want to be all hands on death testing this uh fix and getting it out but we totally agree uh it's essential to get input from stockholders and we'll make a a short proposal uh that is a rough outline of just the important changes in the implications and we would just ask that those of you that are here uh you know can help answer questions for those that were unable to become and hopefully we can have a high level of voting on the [Music] on the proposal so we can we can all feel like this is um being decided upon in in a more decentralized fashion than the pause was implemented but obviously uh you know it's good better best and at this point we're trying to do our best but we're gonna we're gonna make sure that at the very least the way we do this is good and uh over time we hope that this process gets a lot a lot better but obviously you know this is still very early uh so with that if anyone has anything else they wanted to talk about other than this or if you changed your mind and wanted to talk about this as well you know feel free to raise your hand before just before we end let me know and i'll talk about what i'm going to do afterwards you know before we end uh thanks publius for hosting this discussion um i'm new around here but intuitively i think your explanation uh makes a ton of sense for for pausing it um i'm curious i know it's probably not the head space you're in at the moment since you don't know exactly what the issue is but in the future one day i'm curious what you think what conditions would have to be true or maybe it's a broader question for the community also for you know a bip to be proposed in past that would would remove these unilateral privileges that's a great question and step one would be getting beanstalk audited and hopefully having it audited by multiple parties and in that spirit we're you know we have two drafts of proposals for two independent audits we're hoping the community will approve and we think that will go a long way to at least facilitating that discussion at that point i think the main the main question that should decide it is effectively the main test of any open source decentralized protocol with money on it is how resistant is it to attack when there's value on it and on the one hand there are uh technical exploits which is what we hope the audit uh will find and on the other hand there are economic exploits that can come about if there's a an improper integration uh and in most cases an improper integration would probably affect the protocol that is doing the integration directly but in certain instances it could also either directly or indirectly affect beanstalk and so these types of these types of considerations are an open discussion and things that will make us feel much more confident that it's uh appropriate to relinquish this these privileges would be that there's a lot more value on the beanstalk platform therefore making it a much higher value target uh and therefore in theory over time should become should demonstrate it's much more resilient uh and more immediately hopefully having multiple independent audits performed on beanstalk uh will at least uh make it reasonable to start to have that conversation about what is the right amount of value on beanstalk to to potentially do that but we like like we said we really want that to happen and one of our main overarching goals is getting being stuck to a place where that can happen and we hope it's evident in our conduct across the board thus far but we think that doing things the right way is the best way to put beanstalk in a position to become the behemoth decentralized protocol that we want it to be but in the short term that requires uh that does require a little bit more head holding and neck support and you know we're happy to provide it in the short term but we totally recognize that that's not that's not what the optimal situation is and we're committed to getting beanstalk there awesome thanks that makes sense anyone else and actually aj just after you wrap up i'm gonna say one other piece too okay aj i'm gonna this is so this is a little off topic actually just related to other bdps which are considerably less relevant frankly than what we're talking about um but there was a little chatter which was kind of baby talk compared to what we're going through um you know all the interesting stuff today uh i threw up a different uh bdp today for looking at being nfts i've been working on actually for a couple of weeks and just didn't have a chance to kind of finally formalize it um not directly competing against uh where have you been who i've not seen in the chat um definitely just trying to put more timeline um and clarity around actual deliverables um to help the team kind of the community feel a little bit more confident of where we're going how quickly we're going to get there and what the output will look like i realized uh his is uh nearing completion in the next 24 hours and this one's just started uh and so i'm we're going to loop back and talk about what it would look like but in the meantime that one is listed um and yeah so we're he and i are going to discuss if there's some kind of overlap but i just want to bring it to you guys attention that it's uh listed up there so uh worst case scenario uh we have more clarity of i mean there is basically no worst case scenario i think we're just getting more clarity on where we're going with being nfts and there's just another bdp to represent that direction so completely tangent of what we've been talking about thank you uh aj maybe you want to close this out and then we'll make maybe a just a quick closing remark if we're wrapping up then i'll just say so yesterday i taught a class on or i tried to teach class on the introduction an introduction to frequent frequency analysis we can use that to help improve beanstalk some technical difficult a lot of people came if you were one of the people that came thank you for coming i do believe it's important i've been busting my butt to produce this material um i had technical difficulty yesterday and it was the first time doing that i've basically written a textbook i mean not a textbook but i've created a large document um that included the graphs and math that i wanted to show as well as the uh concepts so i'll be distributing that there's going to be a class in this again after after this um [Music] this i forgot what we call this dow talk a university class there'll be another talk about frequency analysis and i'll be supplying the documents written for for materials for the class and then probably tomorrow i'll submit materials for people's review in in the chat generally well i just i just wanted to say that and if you're if you're interested in in learning about how different ways we might be able to improve beanstalk or different ways to look at beanstalk from a technical standpoint please come to i'll be in the barnyard after this university class because that's where i handle these community classes and thank you thank you for the people who came yesterday unless there's we'll give it like 10 more seconds if anyone wanted to raise their hand or add anything else um otherwise we'll just we'll just close this out real quick and kind of set an agenda for what you guys can expect from us in in in the near future so no hands so we are we're working on getting the short-term fix which is the would basically mean that your farmable beans do not yield farmable stock they yield grown stock which again we think is a marginal change uh and the benefit is getting beanstalk back up hopefully immediately and uh so the we'll propose a snapshot proposal which is either going to be a binary maybe have three options which will which will be whether or not to do the the grown stock farmable stock change brew poop loses ownership privileges to do it through a bip which will take 24 hours or to leave being stock positive until we can return to the current mechanism uh and kind of see what what stockholders want obviously from this call it seems like the first option is more most likely and we would support that but we recognize that uh you know it would be better to do that with community support so we're going to get a a brief snapshot proposal up shortly and you know we'll let everyone know when that's up and we'll go from there uh last thing we just want to say is thank you guys for coming and discussing and uh and asking questions and voicing your opinions uh we understand that this sucks and we're working to make sure that it gets fixed as soon as possible and in the best way possible for the community with the long-term interest of being stock in mind and we appreciate any and all feedback including criticism that that we are doing things improperly uh perhaps especially criticism that we're doing things improperly so uh we encourage people to continue to voice their their opinions uh both in in discussion uh maybe we'll we'll open up a channel uh to discuss the pause and the pause proposal and uh you know we'll do that right now and hopefully everyone can can kind of direct their conversation there so we can have a concentrated place to address all of this so thank you everyone for coming uh and we uh you know we're incredibly grateful for for what's going on with being stuck in this opportunity to build something that can really change e5 and change the world and uh we're sorry that there's this issue but we are we're gonna make it you know we're gonna fix it and get this thing back on chugging uh thank you guys for coming and we'll talk soon