📖

Beanstalk University Class #39

Date
August 16, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Introduction • 0:49 What has been happening with the protocol in the last week? • 5:01 Are Stalkholders an important part of peg stability? • 5:45 Is a Dutch auction a good solution for Beanstalk? • 7:44 Publius’s thoughts on the current status of BIPs • 13:00 How does the A parameter affect delta B? • 16:00 How will the delta B calculated in the BEAN:ETH pool? • 16:40 What is the Beanstalk DEX? Any updates? • 18:25 Any Root updates? • 20:25 How is the Halborn agreement going? • 22:32 How many devs are there currently working for the DAO? • 24:04 When will there be a vAPY on the website? • 24:25 What is convert? • 26:17 Why award Unripe assets with grown stalk? • 27:43 What is the relationship between FERT and BEAN:3CRV pool? • 29:00 What are Beanstalk Farm’s priories? • 33:10 Will Beanstalk become cross-network? • 34:00 Discussion on prediction markets built onto of Beanstalk? • 37:09 Why are some contributors paid and others not? • 38:27 Why are Unripe assets allowed to be converted? • 39:44 Why is there a big jump in the amount of Pods? • 40:45 How can we reduce Beanstalk’s debt? • 42:03 Why does it seem like most of the business development team is outsourced? • 44:56 What effect does the Ethereum upgrade have on Beanstalk? • 46:09 Does Beanstalk have any plans to get more liquidity? • 46:36 How does the delta B work? • 47:26 Ideas on reducing Beanstalk’s debt • 49:50 Closing thoughts
Type
Beanstalk University

Recordings

Notes

What has been happening with the protocol in the last week?

  • BIPs 22 & 23 appear to have hit quorum.
  • The joke going around Discord is that the stablecoin is too stable.
  • There is some friction around maintaining a perfect peg due to the fee in the 3CRV pool.
  • The deltaB has still been very close to a dollar, basically every season. It's been a very low volatility few days.
  • One exciting event was that there was a large withdrawal of about 2.5 million BDV, most of it in liquidity, from a single wallet. That was money that had come in after the replant.
  • The price went down to around 92 and half cents because about 1.3 million beans were sold, causing the deltaB to go to negative 1.2 million beans.
  • It was quickly converted and brought back to peg within 15 minutes, which was exciting to see.
  • The system did mint around 200k soil, and it was quickly sown. But since the price had already returned to a dollar at that point, the system probably didn't need to issue that much soil. That highlights a potential efficiency improvement.
  • Since then the price has stayed close to peg, and the reality is there aren't too many other assets to be sold, given that most of the assets are still unripened.

Are Stalk holders an important part of peg stability?

  • Normally you think of the pod holders or lenders as the ones creating the utility, because that's where a lot of the stability comes from. But now with convert having such a meaningful part in peg maintenance, stockholders are also starting to create their own utility.

Is a Dutch auction a good solution for Beanstalk?

  • At the margin, it can help minimize the amount of debt Beanstalk takes on.
  • It seems that temperature is too high currently, and needs to come down.
  • A dutch auction could help, but wouldn't be gas efficient.
  • Not a priority, but something to think about.

Publius’s thoughts on the current status of BIPs

  • It's important for systems creating money to be resistant to change.
  • The 50% requirement is a way to ensure that a majority of the value is aligned with changes.
  • The goal is to make changes difficult to make. There needs to be compelling reasons.
  • We're hesitant to encourage delegation due to the centralizing effect, but we can't prevent somebody from doing it.
  • Participation hasn't been a major problem, as most BIPs have passed.
  • Maybe certain changes could require lower thresholds. Whitelisting assets might be one such case.

How does the A permeameter affect delta B?

  • A high A parameter means the price is calculated closer to constant sum, which means the price will stay closer to the peg.
  • With a lower A parameter, for the same imbalance, there will be more deviation from peg.
  • There was a lot of discussion, and an A parameter of 1 was selected which is slightly more concentrated around the peg than is a constant product pool, but not by much.
  • In practice, that means there is a decent amount of BEAN price volatility for a given ratio or imbalance in the pool, and the fact that the BEAN price has been so close to the peg despite having a relatively low A parameter is very encouraging from a peg maintenance perspective.
  • A higher A parameter would have resulted in less deviation from the peg after the large withdrawal, and it might not have been as attractive to convert.
  • Having a low A parameter and more volatility can help offset the friction from the fee, which helps Beanstalk oscillate the BEAN price above and below the peg.

How will the delta B calculated in the BEAN:ETH pool?

  • It will be a similar calculation as prior to the exploit. It will look at the ratio of BEAN to ETH relative to the ratio of USDC to ETH in another pool.

What is the Beanstalk DEX? Any updates?

  • It will be a liquidity vacuum, because there is so much friction around fees that doesn't need to exist.
  • Development is underway on a constant product pool, which will be BEAN:ETH.
  • Thinking of calling them wells instead of pools, continuing to play on the metaphor.

Any Root updates?

  • Will be proposing a BIP on fungible Bean deposits. It will likely be BIP-24.
  • BIP-24 will be audited prior to proposal, thanks to the Root funded retainer.

How is the Halborn agreement going?

  • Two different aspects of the agreement
    • Retainer
    • Seraph agreement
  • Making good progress, still some things that need to be worked out on the Seraph side of things.
  • Hope is to have the UI audited and start a full reaudit of the protocol.
  • Pod marketplace upgrade will be ready for them to start auditing in the next couple weeks.

What is convert?

  • Changes the ratio of your position of Beans and LP tokens within the Silo.
  • When the price is too high, you can convert your Beans into LP tokens, which has the same effect as selling BEAN because it has the effect of lowering the deltaB.
  • When the price is below $1, BEAN is removed from the pool and the deltaB increases.

Why award Unripe assets with grown stalk?

  • They should continue to function as normal deposits, with the exception of not allowing them to be used as exit liquidity.
  • No reason to additionally penalize them for having assets in the Silo when it was exploited.

What is the relationship between FERT and BEAN:3CRV pool?

  • The amount of Fertilizer that can be sold changes.
  • The system is looking to recapitalize to an amount of LP tokens in the 3CRV pool.

What are Beanstalk Farms’ priories?

  • UI is improving, and will be audited and open-sourced.
  • Starting work on the DEX
  • Integrating Seraph
  • Coordinating with various participants like Root and Bean Sprout
  • Bean Sprout will work on business development

Will Beanstalk become cross-network?

  • Development will continue to happen on Ethereum mainnet.
  • Some assets may be bridged to layer 2s, but the focus is on the main protocol.

Discussion on prediction markets built onto of Beanstalk?

  • Experimentation should be encouraged.
  • The ability to use existing Silo positions is attractive.
  • Prediction markets typically have liquidity issues due to the opportunity cost of supplying liquidity, but since the Silo deposits continue to earn seignorage there is no opportunity cost.

Why are Unripe assets allowed to be converted?

  • The underlying assets will remain in the system, and the interests of Silo members with unripe assets align with the need for peg maintenance.

Why is there a big jump in the amount of Pods?

  • The removal of liquidity caused the deltaB to be -200k, and a lot of soil was issued.
  • Highlights a potential efficiency improvement in soil issuance, since the peg had already been restored.

Can pods be traded for stalk as a way to reduce Beanstalk's debt?

  • Not currently, because stalk is always associated with a BDV deposit.

Why does it seem like most of the business development team is outsourced?

  • There are many independent entities working to build on Beanstalk whose interests are aligned with Beanstalk's success.
  • We want to work with many businesses and teams

What effect does the Ethereum upgrade have on Beanstalk?

  • Not too much, especially with no BEAN:ETH pool.
  • If there is a fork, Beanstalk will continue on whatever chain 3CRV has value on.
  • Somewhat unfortunate to be at the mercy of the decisions of centralized entities, but hopefully as Beanstalk scales stalkholders will have more of a say

Does Beanstalk have any plans to get more liquidity?

  • Continue to create utility by staying at peg, and inviting businesses to come take advantage of the positive carry of BEANs.

How does the deltaB work?

  • The deltaB is time-weighted over the course of the season.

Would it be beneficial to reduce debt through something like a buyback?

  • If Beanstalk has to borrow Beans as a result of paying off pods, the total debt level could increase.
  • There is no reason to do so because the pod debt has no maturity date.
  • Might be interesting to have a buyback price relative to the current temperature. Needs more discussion.

Transcript

how's it going publish it's going mod it's going uh feeling excited about uh the status of bip 22 and bib 23 which both seem to have hit quorum in the past couple of hours so that's exciting and they only have like two two and a half hours left so uh down to the wire but uh cool stuff yeah i'm glad to hear that and see that as well and i guess maybe bit participation would be one of the topics that we can discuss today as well as always everything is on the table sounds good okay before we start off with questions and we already have a few of them in the town hall chat and to everyone who's joining us now please feel free to drop your questions there can we maybe look into a quick summary or a brief summary of what happened the past week on the protocol level so the joke on the discord that you know the stable coin is too stable uh and and that's what we have seen uh uh on you know uh good good to hear uh as well we had an incident uh once where we there was a relatively large exit uh uh you know that that left uh left the protocol and we also saw uh how being stock handled that can you maybe take us through the week and and that specific incident as well sure so two stable is uh probably not the case uh the you know in terms of good better best the thing that's staring us in the face is that because you have a fee in the bean 3 curve pool that there is some friction around maintaining a perfect peg so while the delta b has been very close to a dollar basically every season within a couple thousand with the exception of that one season uh that you mentioned uh it's been it's been a low volatility couple of uh days and nonetheless the bean supply has continued to grow slowly but steadily there have been mints relatively consistently and i think generally low volatility positive carry is the name of the game so an exciting week overall and as we've spoken about the the the longer the contracts are up and running the the better we can all feel about the model and the security of it but this is a long-term game so we're only about a a little over a week into this collectively now there was one exciting event which was that there was a large withdrawal of around two and a half million uh bdv most of it in in liquidity uh from a single wallet that was that the money had come in after the the replant and so there's a couple things that are noteworthy one is that the price went down to 92 and a half cents or so uh because there was about 1.3 million beans that were uh sold or cell pressure in practice so the the delta b went to negative 1.2 something million beans and was quickly converted and bought back to peg within i think it was like 15 minutes or so which was pretty exciting to see the convert in action and that that was a in and of itself an exciting event now the the reality is that the the system did mint like to 200 000 soil i think it was and we saw that soil quickly get sown but the reality is that since the price had already returned to a dollar the system probably didn't need to issue that much soil and so that's one place where there's a potential efficiency improvement which is that if not the using the minimum of the current delta b and the time weighted average delta b because that can be manipulated perhaps using like a five block average right before the sunrise or some something like that where uh if the price is returned to the peg at the end of the season beanstalk doesn't need to issue as much soil but that would be the only inefficiency that was really on display in that case and generally thought the system performed pretty well given the circumstances now since then the price has been pretty much steadily at pagan the reality is that there aren't too many other assets to be sold uh given that the the most of the assets are still unripe and the chop percentage remains pretty high so that's a brief overview of what's been going on over the past week or so and generally pretty excited is this a good example of showing uh um that's how stockholders are providing utility in the protocol where they're not just like staking their tokens they're actively participating in peg maintenance definitely and whereas normally i think you think of the pod holders or the the lenders as the ones creating the utility because that's where a lot of the stability comes from now with convert having such a meaningful part in peg maintenance stockholders are also starting to create create their own utility because they obviously have been exposure to some capacity so it's creating utility by providing uh peg maintenance great all right uh what wanted to discuss a little bit one of the topics that are being discussed under the governance channel which is uh now is being called the dutch auction for soil and we've previously touched on on this idea before which is on the start of every season the temperature would start from zero to the current temperature and there would be you know an auction on whoever buys soil first at the lowest temperature uh gets it what are your thoughts uh on this being a priority to being stuck with this right now save uh you know that to beanstalk or it's not really you know where we want to put our focus on so at the margin that is probably somewhere that the amount of debt bean stock is issuing can be minimum so at the moment the temperature is like 50 400 percent uh and it's it's coming down and has been coming down for a couple of weeks if you go back prior to the replant but nonetheless remains pretty high and if you look at the the implied temperature based on the price of the beans in the pod marketplace it does seem that beanstalk is overpaying somewhat significantly uh in order at the moment and so the concept of introducing some sort of and i think a dutch auction generally works as a structure uh is an interesting way to minimize the cost of len beanstalk borrowing beans but it's not it's not so gas efficient to implement and so implementing a an on-chain oxen every hour is you know it's it's interesting but probably not probably not a priority at the moment but definitely something to think more about it's an interesting concept all right let's talk a bit about the beps uh and i'm participating in bibs in general since on pause or even before that let's say since maybe even before exploit beanstalk has a lot of bits that gets you know proposed and so far uh the bip for a bib to uh to pass it needs you know a relatively high quorum which is fifty percent four uh and most or uh say all bips have passed uh in general but we've seen lately that might what we might think or see as like a voter fatigue what are your thoughts in general about how bips are right now um there have been some ideas uh you know proposed such as vote delegation another thing that we can do maybe as a reward you know voters so if you vote you get some sort of reward maybe change the voting system completely someone posted on the governance channel an idea about you know a different sort of voting called the parent consensus and we can talk about what that is like what are your thoughts general on our current system uh the participation and if it needs any amendment or changes so in general it's important that systems that are trying to create money like beanstalk are not easy to manipulate or change the the money policy the monetary policy if you want to call it uh of the system the goal is to have beanstalk be difficult to change and the concept of a fifty percent uh requirement of voting in favor of a change to the protocol is is not a requirement per se but is certainly a way to ensure that the majority of the value held in the system or at least in the in the silo is aligned with the direction of the changes of the protocol and to some extent whether a third would be sufficient as opposed to a half maybe but again the goal is to make beanstalk difficult to change and so unless the proposed changes to the protocol are really attractive it's the goal is not to have beanstalk be easy to change so there needs to be compelling reasons to change the protocol now delegation reality is that there's nothing that you can do to prevent someone from at some point creating like a rapper such that there is delegation but that is is one of the places where i think we were very hesitant to encourage that in any capacity because at some point then you do have a centralization and decision making and while it may encourage higher participation in terms of total stock it's likely going to encourage much lower participation in terms of uh users and significant stockholders that are paying attention to governance closely so historically uh perhaps with the the exception of a couple of bips uh it doesn't seem like participation has been the main issue and having people actively vote at the threshold of 50 stock and the fact that the vast majority of bips have passed that threshold don't think it's fair to classify the dow as have no participation issue in any capacity so recognize that the votes are stressful and there's a lot of work that goes into this stuff and if if they don't pass it can be like well what the are we doing here you know like why why is anyone working on developing the stuff if then the dow is not going to just vote for it but at the end of the day making sure that the dow is comfortable with with the changes is essential and uh what that threshold of approval is perhaps can be changed depending on the type of change right over time uh maybe adding a token to the white list is it requires a different threshold than changing a rule of the monetary policy so there's no right answer but think that in general keeping with a higher threshold is gonna help ensure the integrity of being stock and of beings as money what about rewarding those who vote can we think of you know voters as also like you know participants and and the protocol would reward you if you vote is this something well there's a couple problems one is if if you have permissionless governance where anyone can propose a bip now anyone can propose a bid and then vote for a bip or vote against a bip and collect some sort of reward from the system so the question is well what bips are entitled to rewards and that's where you start to lose the permissionlessness so not sure that's so easy to do that's a very good point all right we can start with some of the questions uh and we have a comment on an earlier uh thing that we discussed which is i think the the gas and how intensive a dutch auction would be and alex proposes a solution that the function can just read you know the time of the season so it doesn't have to like actively calculate okay excellent asks do you have you know like a simple explanation of how the a parameter and the curve pool impacts the delta and how that would impact also minting sure so the in practice the a parameter determines how close to a constant product or a constant sum the the invariant on the curve pool is and the higher the a parameter the closer to the constant sum uh formula the pool is and what that means in practice is that when you have a higher a parameter given a an imbalance in the pool as a percentage of the pool the price is going to be closer to the pec and for a lower a parameter given that same ratio in the pool you're going to have a price that's further from the peg and so the question is how how to have the price change in line with the the ratio in the pool and whether you want the price to be sensitive to changes in the price excuse me changes in the ratio of the pool or not and there was a lot of discussion that happened around what was the appropriate a parameter for the being three curve pool and an a of one was selected which is slightly more uh concentrated around the peg than is a constant product pool but not by much and in practice that means that there is a decent amount of bean price volatility for a given ratio in the pool or imbalance in the pool and the fact that the bean price has been so close to the peg despite uh having a relatively low a parameter is very encouraging from a peg maintenance perspective so if there had been a higher a parameter uh when that two and a half million dollar withdrawal of lp came a higher a parameter would have resulted in a lower deviation in the price which would have made converting less attractive so one of the benefits of having a lower a parameter is that converting is attractive for stockholders and there is a way to make additional stock by participating in peg maintenance actively and as we were talking about earlier when you consider that there's a fee in these pools uh having a lower a parameter where you have more price volatility can help offset the the fee the friction from the fee around converting and peg maintenance so a lower a parameter is helpful for a lot of different reasons particularly when you consider that beanstalk is trying to oscillate the bean price above and below the peg not have it just stay flat slightly above or slightly below the peg like a lot of other stable points okay harry asks a few questions maybe we can take them one by one starting off with the with the being eath pool when that is introduced how will the delta be calculated or drive across you know the different ports so it's likely to be a similar calculation to the one prior to the to the replant for the beanie pool which is the ratio of beans to eat relative to the ratio of usdc to eat in another pool and that will be the way to figure out whether the price of bean is too high or too low relative to eat and and by how much in the pool okay second question is about the beanstalk decks so last week we had a good overview uh um head is asking um if you can like you know summarize that again and then include if there have been any new developments to the bean salt decks so at at a high level the dex is going to be we think a liquidity vacuum within crypto and the reason for that is that there's so much friction around trading at the moment as a result of trading fees that don't need to exist and when you consider that beings due to their positive carry are the most attractive stable point to have different assets fighting against when you combine liquid pools with zero fees using the beanstalk native decks uh becomes quite attractive so there's not too much to to give in terms of an update development is well underway on the first pool which will be a constant product pool uh of being being eth and from a lingo perspective uh thinking of calling them wells in strip instead of pools and the concept there is that wells constantly replenish and particularly replenished when there's rain and when when there's rain there are beans minted and the beans are constantly replenishing the well so that would be the only update and it's not really a substantive one but but uh nonetheless we we like uh continuing to play on the metaphor i i look forward to how well becomes you know a coin in in defy any updates on root mr manifold you're in the audience if you'd like to come up and share that let's see how are you manifold i'm doing good mod how are you what's up bubblies how are you all as well here yeah i'm sure gm brother uh so on the root front it's looking like root is going to propose a bip uh within the next week or so one of the things that we want to be able to facilitate is a fungible deposited bean and in order to do that there are some upgrades uh and updates we're going to kind of need to request uh from beanstalk uh and so that is probably the most important update on the root end and something uh harry to keep an eye out for uh in the coming days it'll likely be bip 24. thank you very very cool that there's now you know a private company starting to work on code for beanstalk and propose it as a bip then one thing to add is that root has been generous enough to fund a six month agreement with beanstalk with hal born to continue to audit beanstalk and the result is that uh bip24 will be audited by hal born prior to proposal is our understanding might might be a conflict of interest there publius we'll see brother with regards to uh root funding the halborne retainer that's more inside joke sarcasm sarcasm oh apologies i'm uh i'm out of touch with the inside jokes i guess i think that's the the next question was uh how's the hellborn agreement uh and i i believe uh published you just gave a summary uh where uh manifold uh you you had a call with hal burn today um maybe you can give an update if there's anything else other than what publius shared sure so you know there's there's two different uh do two different um you know aspects of the hal born agreement one is the you know retainer um to continuously audit um any new code um and another is the serif agreement and so we're making good progress there um you know in particularly on the serif agreement side there's still some open questions um that you know we're working through and hopefully we can get uh cleared up in in the near future um but it's a it's a new you know it's a new product it's a new service from hal born um and you know it's it's the first of its kind so you know typically when you're working through legal documentation for something that's new and novel um there are some sticking points that you know you've got to sort through and so we're kind of in that phase but hopefully within the next day or so we have it cleaned up inside thank you manifold for the update and to add to that there's so much that once halbourne is retained for them to work on so there's a couple projects one is uh what manifold suggested with bip24 uh the hope is to have the ui audited such that it can quickly be open sourced after the the ui audit is complete and then we'd like to also have hal born uh start a complete re-audit of beanstalk from scratch uh as sort of a continuous uh auditing process so uh there's lots of good activity for them to be working on and we're excited to get that uh relationship uh back up and running after a brief reprieve since they finished the audit yep on the front end uh going open sources is a big step um for the protocol in general next question is how many devs are currently working uh for the dow it's it's a bit uh unclear to give you an answer now just given that there are still people are contributing to being soccer aren't hired but officially the only ones who are hired right now are the ones who had uh proposals passed uh now that the budget is passed expect that we will have like more more contributors uh being onboarded uh next question is um and i'm probably just feel free to add then um anything there yeah i would say as a great example of that had a nice call with maltese and bean joyer today and they've been hard at work uh upgrading the pod marketplace and think that another thing that uh will be ready for halbourne uh in the next couple of weeks for them to start auditing will be some major upgrades to the pod marketplace and think that that the structure of the pod marketplace as it's being worked on is uh really cool in general and god willing will be a template for uh lots of different other markets that are built on top of bean stuff so very excited for the work that they've been up to and uh it's hard to define are they working for the dow are they you know what what are people's relationships to the dad hard to say but lots of different controls on all different parts of the stack at the moment so uh pretty pretty incredible the the amount of output happening from lots of different places like the root developers are also separate so very cool when can we expect a variable api on the website uh don't think i'm the right guy to to end chad feel free to answer it if you if you'd like to i have not been okay next question can you explain how convert works what happens when you convert when the price is above one or or below one so in practice the way convert works is it changes the the ratio of your position of beans and lp tokens within the silo so lp tokens are a portion bean and a portion of acids that are not beans whereas deposited beans are entirely beans and so when the price is too high you can convert your beans into lp tokens which are part beans and partner beans in order to get the part that's not beans beans are sold so when converts happen above the peg beans are sold and by the protocol and converted into lp tokens whereas when the price is below a dollar beans don't need to be bought and in practice the thing to note about curve is uh curve supports adding lp tokens adding liquidity on either side so it's not that beans are actually sold into into non-beans in this case three curve but in practice the conversion has the effect of lowering the delta b in the pool so in practice the beans are just added to the liquidity pool and then vice versa when the price is too low uh beans are just removed from the pool so you have these lp tokens that are a ratio of beans and three curve and when the price is too low that means there's too many beans in the pool and so when you convert lp tokens to beans beans are just removed from the pool so at its base level a convert is just adding beans to the pool or removing beans from pool all right cha kitty asks the idea of having grown stock is to retain um or to introduce an opportunity cost for those who want to exit the silo given that android assets are anyways invested and have high a high penalty why still reward them with ground stock so the concept is that unripe assets should continue to function as normal deposits with the exception of the goal being to prevent them functioning as exit liquidity so the top uh percent is designed to highly align the incentives between those purchasing fertilizer effectively recapitalizing the unripe assets and those with unripe assets where if you have unripe assets the value of the unripe assets may be increasing as fertilizers sold but you're not able to sell against those people to be capitalized until they have been paid back as fertilizer fertilizes sprouts so it's a question of incentive alignment but there's no reason to additionally penalize those at those people with uh with revitalized stock and seeds and unripe assets because of the fact that they uh had assets and being stocked before the the exploit next question asks what's the relationship between the being three curve pool and the amount of fertilizer sold why why does the amount of fertilizer uh changes uh when there are changes to the being three curveball so it's not that the amount of fertilizer sold changes it's that the amount of fertilizer that can be sold uh will change now the the concept is that the the protocol is trying to recapitalize the 77 million dollars in liquidity that was stolen from the protocol but in practice the way that it was implemented is that it's uh looking to recapitalize a fixed amount of uh lp tokens now the amount of lp tokens that uh the amount of fertilizer that needs to be sold in order to create the right amount of lp tokens changes as the ratio in the pool changes does that make sense yes and if that wasn't clear please like ask us and we'll follow up or expand on the answer next question asks what are the priorities for the beanstalk for beanstock farms and maybe beanstalk the protocol in general for the next three to three to six months so there's lots of different good stuff going on and recently had a call with a lot of the people at beanstalk farms to try to to try to get an understanding of that as well and it seems like there's a lot of different work happening on the ui to get it fully up to speed and add all of the functionality uh for the new version of beanstalk and similarly getting the subgraph up and running to support the ui and having both the subgraph migrated to the decentralized graph uh network and having the ui code open sourced after an audit those are major projects happening at the moment additionally there's a lot of work happening for protocol development at beanstalk farms uh particularly the the the starting to work on the decks the converts associated with that and all of the necessary support around that and then there's a lot of different work happening to organize with hal born the the seraph bip uh putting together the the playbook as seraph calls it around that structure and getting that up and running and then as well trying to coordinate a lot of different stuff with the the different participants in the the beanstalk ecosystem like root uh like uh something some of the permits that hopefully bean sprout is gonna work on uh a lot of different stuff for beanstalk farms to sort of coordinate to make sure that everything is up and running and that the the ui is functioning as well uh with all these changes happening so lots of different moving pieces to coordinate and perhaps i'm not the best person to to speak on this perhaps some of the people on the beanstalk farms council want to come up and talk about what they view as the priorities for beanstalk farms a photo up to that question is in specific what about business development i think root has a lot to do to add to that i think bean sprout is really going to hopefully continue to be the hub for that and function as a seed or incubator for lots of different projects and businesses to start to build on top of beanstalk so uh root was a great example of the success of beansprout last uh i almost said last year but prior to the the exploit and prior to the replant and root continues or has started to really pay dividends uh for beanstalk and is is evidence that the funding of beansprout is has been very productive and hopefully uh other projects will start to grow out of out of beans brown as well totally and i can i can add a little bit to that um at a more grand euro level so you know there's there's really i i like to bifurcate it in terms of you know on-chain and off-chain development um and what i mean by that is you know we are certainly looking for entrepreneurs and developers who are looking to build protocols or additional utility on chain for beans um that's that's incredibly healthy and it's it's needed to drive demand um but also equally as interested in the development of a bdv economy that you know potentially has real world assets or underlying cash flows for businesses that are off-chain uh in which these assets or businesses you know operate a portion or all of their books hopefully in beans um and you know i think both of those things are equally important and so hope hopefully over the next you know three to six months we make significant progress there um and can fund and support and provide resources to teams and individuals um who are you know entrepreneurial and want to go out and and you know operate within a bdv economy and and that's really in my opinion what starts to make this economic engine really tick thank you manafort any plans to make beans cross chain so thinking the thinking at the moment is that the development of beanstalk will continue to happen on ethereum mainnet for the foreseeable future uh the concept is that over time we could see being itself or a version of a fungible deposited asset being bridged to ethereum layer twos but beyond that uh no plans at the moment the cross range stuff is really difficult and at the moment focused more on on upgrading and continuing to improve the the main economic model of beanstalk amir huddleberry asks um so he's a bit wary or not sure about pursuing a prediction market and hops that we have you know more discussion uh about that um so the prediction market will be run by root which is you know a private and independent uh company but maybe maybe publish you can share a bit of your thoughts on what the prediction market would be like on bean stock and then manifold you can also talk about you know how independent that is from from being stock so there's a couple things to be said one is that there's no reason to be wary of pursuing anything on top of being stuck i think in general we should be encouraging of experimentation and development and uh in development in a transparent way and the hope is that the cream will rise to the top so in general i think being wary of development is not not not the right attitude now with regards to prediction markets in particular uh we do happen to think that it's a very attractive thing to build on top of being stock in the short term because people already have silo positions collecting yield and then the ability to use those silo positions to bet on different things whether that's being stock interest rates or sunday football that's a very compelling thing to do given that there's no opportunity cost associated with participating in those markets so if you look at the current structure of on-chain prediction markets their main problem is a lack of liquidity which we believe is from uh opportunity cost associated with providing liquidity but if you create the prediction markets on top of the silo there is no opportunity cost associated with markets and therefore it should be able to attract a significant amount of liquidity and that's that's also why the pod marketplace development and starting to develop really sophisticated order books uh is is is an exciting piece of development as well because there's going to be lots of different sophisticated markets hopefully built on top of this thing and and you know agree with all that hodelberry a couple comments that i would add is that you know we're we're dealing with permissionless on-chain technology um and so you know kind of like publius mentioned uh really anything can be developed by anyone on top of beans um and so you know there's nothing really stopping anyone or any entity from from pursuing or developing a prediction market um and so you know again we think that it's it's something and you know uh worth pursuing for for all the reasons that publish mentioned but also notable is that you know beanstalk farms or beanstalk isn't investing anything into it from a development perspective from a financial perspective the sole purpose really of these prediction markets at a high level is you know to facilitate demand for beans because we think it'll be a good product um so hopefully that you know helps ease some of your concerns uh but just thought i'd add that thank you for the answer excellent uh asks if there is like a default day rate uh or a fee for contributors uh thinking that why why would we have some contributors like paid and others who who aren't yet so right now one is is is paid uh excited the the proposals that have passed were passed uh for the for the vinson farms committee uh where anyone anyone can you know propose to be on the bench of france committee but the idea of the committee is for it to be able to then hire uh contributors so now that the the uh budget uh passed expect you know everyone was not yet two and a half more two and a half well two more hours just under two more hours but hopefully they will yeah when if it hopefully uh or when the top of the passes uh then uh bean sock farms will be able to on board you know the other other contributors so that they're all all paid so right now no one is is being paid but in the future hopefully everyone contributing to being stuck will be paid with regards to a grant there is a community grant program that uh hopefully will also be introduced on on passing off the of the bip and then that will be you know uh uh have more of that of that free let's say fee or data rate based on like on on basis projects let's say a question on why are android assets allowed to be converted the concept is that the liquidity in the unripe assets is locked within beanstalk it can't be withdrawn or sold or the vast majority of it can't because of the top rate but nonetheless it's either liquidity or beans and the people that are uh let's call it stuck in the silo those people are highly uh incentivized to help maintain the peg because the more that beanstalk is able to maintain the peg the more likely it is that they get paid back so it's it's highly aligned for those converters to be able to help participate in peg maintenance so chad asked answered i mean the earlier question about having a valuable api on the ui and his answer is that generally speaking the minimum number or days that we want to show an average for is 30 days so just given that you know bin stock on pause we don't have that that much data to to show so after 30 days we might hopefully see an api on the on the ui binology asks why did the pod line go from 690 a million to 745 on april 9 because he didn't see a big price that or anything like that he feels like he missed something and i think you did indeed miss something we analogy we kind of touched on it earlier on but publish you might give a quick answer so this was the result of the season where there was uh the lp removal of two and a half million beans or so and the result was that the time weighted average price for the season was significantly below a dollar and even though the price wasn't significantly below a dollar the delta b was something like minus 200 000 and therefore there was a significant amount of position uh that that goes to our comment from earlier that perhaps uh using some sort of minimum between the current delta b or something close to it and the average over the season is a better way to to issue soil benjamin asks and this this is more of a topic that has been discussed you got to finish the name it's a great name come on benjamin stoken it is uh it is a good name so uh benjamin stoken asks uh and that's that's a topic that has been discussed in other channels which the overall topic is how can we reduce uh bean stock's debt and in this example it says what we can do is have pod holders exchange you know their pods for a certain amount of stock that's you know minted minted by by the silo let's say or the protocol what do you think about that obvious so as a principle there's no stock that's ever issued without beans associated with it and therefore probably doesn't make sense to do that uh separately the it is interesting to think about other ways for beanstalk to minimize its current ascending debt obligation but it's hard given the nature of the first and first out structure to really do that and uh trading trading pods for stock isn't very because of the fact that stock is currently only issued if there's underlying pdb discussed two follows up on his business development uh questioning he says that it seems most of business development is outsourced or aspirational so there is sorry go ahead sorry sorry to cut you off there mod um so i guess what i would say that discos do is you know uh when you refer to outsourcing um you know what what i uh in my head imagine is you know independent teams and entrepreneurs building on top of beanstalk and or denominating portions of their balance sheets or all of their balance sheets and beans you know consider the us dollar you know there's healthcare businesses running on u.s dollars there's real estate businesses running on u.s dollars there's agricultural businesses running on u.s dollars and all these businesses are privately owned entities and entrepreneurs that are independently uh incentivized and and aligned uh to build um and so you know when we talk about building a bdv economy uh it's certainly aspirational you know uh in my opinion i think beanstalk is the most aspirational product project in crypto today um and and so you know i think you're spot on it's absolutely aspirational but you know we're trying to merge you know aspirations with reality here um and that's really the only way that you know beanstalk which is a credit based issuer fiat money is successful in the long term and grows sustainably with real underlying cash flows with real on chain usage um that that is sustainable um and so you know in terms of the biz dev strategy you know any entrepreneurs businesses or teams that want to work on top of beanstalk build businesses that denominate you know portions of their books and beans etc are all welcome with open wide arms you know we want to work with you our message is clear uh you know we we want you know hopefully by this time next year you know there's a hundred independent teams working in and around beanstalk hope that answered it answers that discus too and and feel free to follow up on that if if it's not excited asks question and i'm not sure if i understand just a real quick based on the the chat i was mistaken and the the withdrawal of lp of two and a half million was not on august 9th uh it was after august 9th there was a separate period on august 9th where the the the delta b was negative and beanstalk issued around a million uh new soil based on the chat but uh we got a got a little confused with the dates their apologies for that that would be me too because i i thought he was referring as well to to that incident excellent asks and i'm not sure if i understand you correctly which is what impact does the ethereum upgrade have on on on beanstalk as far as we understand it not too much particularly given that there's no being eath pool perhaps it would be a little bit more interesting if there was a beanie pool and then beans on the the fork the proof of work version of b of ethereum had uh had some liquidity against it but it seems like the beanstalk uh that will thrive will be whatever chain uh the three curve has value on so therefore uh the assumption is the proof of state chain will will be the one with value and it is just worth saying that it's a sub optimal situation to be in uh that the chain that beanstalk lives on is sort of at the the decision of other entities and centralized entities but uh over time perhaps as beanstalk scales stockholders will have more of a say in these types of decisions tyler asks if beanstalk has any plans to attract more liquidity well i think beanstalk and in general the plan is just to continue to create utility by being at peg and over time hopefully businesses are attracted to start using and building on top of beanstalk uh because of the positive carry of beans so slow and steady wins the race here nasdaq wanted to follow up on the on how you know the delta b works uh so the delta b is time weighted uh and given that we you know and in some seasons we'll have peg towards the end uh of the season yeah so delta the delta b for the minting of beans and soil is time weighted over the course of the season yeah i'm not sure if if there is a question and as jack but yes it is at this time waiting okay i think we are at the end of the the town hall chat questions if anyone else has another question or any question that would uncover please feel free to drop them problems i wanted to go back to their earlier question which was you know reducing that uh or the idea of reducing that so maybe maybe reducing that through um stock is not a good idea what what about reducing that in general or or having like some that buyback program is is this is this beneficial to being sucked do you think or you know vinson doesn't care just given that the debt is always you know doesn't have a maturity date so in theory it's it's good to reduce debt but in practice not sure how it would actually be done so the main issue is that the pods are redeemable for one bean each and so the question is if if beanstalk is going to now borrow beans to pay off pods beanstalk if it borrows more than if it has to issue more than one pod to borrow a bean i.e pay any interest then its total debt level is going to increase and given that none of this debt has a maturity date there's no reason for being stuck to really roll that over so perhaps the the only thing that might be interesting is if beanstalk had some sort of bid uh on the pod marketplace where it was always willing to buy pods at some sort of uh premium relative to the current temperature so you know let's say right now the temp is something like 54 100 percent therefore beanstalk is willing to buy beans on the secondary market back from anyone for less than one and a half cents which then one and a half cents uh per of beans per pod which therefore it's like and perhaps beanstalk would only be willing to do that when the price is above one so therefore beanstalk is uh maybe it doesn't even need to happen only when the price is above one but the concept is that would be a way for beanstalk to reduce its debt level but uh other than that not sure not sure uh what there is to do there okay and this idea can continue developing maybe as more and more people discuss it we might come up with a better version of okay i think i think we're at the end of the of the tunnel questions publius as always thank you for your time answering all of these questions and thank you manifold for coming on stage and also you know answering and taking taking on these questions thanks for hosting mod thank you thank you guys for uh everyone for joining and see you next week