📖

Beanstalk University Class #30

Date
June 14, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Intro and Replant LP pool proposal • 3:05 How are the audits going? • 4:03 Can we vote again on BFP-75? • 5:55 Why should we start with BEAN:3CRV? • 9:00 When will Root launch? • 11:40 What happens if BIP-20 doesn't pass? • 15:23 Would BIP-20 not passing delay Replant? • 17:47 How do you feel the ETH dip would affect Beanstalk? • 20:13 How long would not choosing the BEAN:3CRV pool delay the Replant? • 22:16 Can we add additional pools after Replant? • 23:15 Was the BFP to pick the pool at Replant? • 26:00 Any feedback on the FRAX proposal? • 27:28 Is Publius concerned about Tether within 3CRV? • 29:50 Are there additional funds for more audits? • 30:48 Thoughts on adding additional tokens for the oracle? • 35:28 Which liquidity pools can be rolled out more quickly? • 38:28 How's the team holding up? • 39:50 Have we reconsidered Pod Line haircuts? • 43:21 Are we finna make it or nah? • 44:11 What keeps Publius up at night? • 47:57 Any progress on tracking the exploiter? • 48:34 Revoting on the 3CRV pool • 51:39 Minimum Fertilizer sales to get to Replant • 55:18 Outro
Type
Beanstalk University

Recording

Notes and Questions

How are the audits going?

  • Going well, plenty of discussion with both Halborn and ToB

Can we vote again on BFP-75?

  • There has to be another vote at some point and think 3CRV would have to be in that proposal
  • although in theory you can propose the same proposal again and again, but some more discussion should be had

Why should we start with BEAN:3CRV?

  • there’s infinite options in theory. BEAN:ETH was the first pool at initial launch due to decentralization
  • Liquidity prior to the attack was heavily weighted towards BEAN:3CRV
  • for simplicity, we should just launch with 1 pool

When will Root launch?

  • hopefully late Q3

What happens if BIP-20 doesn’t reach quorum?

  • Honestly it’s not totally clear, as in this case Beanstalk doesn’t continue if BIP-20 doesn’t pass
  • If push came to shove BF would probably propose a BFP to get the work done

How do you think the ETH downturn would have affected Beanstalk?

  • It’s impossible to know for sure, but Beanstalk performed pretty well during ETH downturns in the early half of the year
  • Unclear how many Farmers would have viewed Beans as cash or went for liquidity

How long would not choosing BEAN:3CRV delay the Replant?

  • Probably a month at least

Any feedback on the FRAX call yesterday?

  • They don’t seem very interested in Beanstalk honestly
  • even though a FRAX model using Beanstalk’s debt to back the governance token would be quite elegant

Does Publius share concerns about the risk of USDT in 3CRV?

  • There’s always risk when it comes to centralized stablecoins
  • Tether in particular is more opaque than USDC, but Tether is older and there’s endless Tether FUD that runs in cycles and it’s hard to evaluate how serious it is
  • hard to analyze the Tether risk as being serious, especially at the current state of Beanstalk

What keeps Publius up at night?

  • if Beanstalk is the main use case on Ethereum, and Beans derive most of their value from trading against ETH, there could be a negative feedback loop where the demand for Beans decreases which decreases the value of ETH. That’s something we’ve been thinking more about, how Beanstalk will work at the largest of scales

Transcript

all right publicly's back on stage good to go publius someone booted me rex man the nerve oh um so we've got right now we just have one question the chat anything you want to kick off with publius before we before we get into that first question first so there's i mean there was some for the first time one of these bfps in the unpause failed uh which it opens a lot of questions as to what to do going forward so the bfp i'm trying to pull up which number it was but uh the one to launch with the being three curve pool uh failed by a marginal vote and so the question now becomes what to do going forward and in short the the question is you know whether there should be another pool that is launched what pool that should be what exchange that it should be on in terms of a decentralized exchange you know the the real thing that will be i think uh crux of the decision going forward that the community needs to make is the the functionality uh to launch with a curve meta pool is the only thing that is currently being audited or has been implemented under the new implementation of beanstalk and so there's you know there's a lot of options in terms of in theory what can be done but that will have to come at a you know a cost of time and perhaps that's something that needs to be discussed and debated within the community as to what the the right course of action is there but that kind of becomes an open question for all of us to to start to talk about now that that vote has concluded uh don't have any real thoughts on the on the matter at the moment other than in general think that the being east pool is likely to be the the centerpiece of the system for the foreseeable future and the question of restarting with a beam 3 curve pool is the result of a couple different things but it's obviously you know something that uh received some votes against and there wasn't that much participation in the vote but nonetheless uh the vote was the vote so we'll see what happens basically but that's the starting point and we'll see what happens fair enough all right jumping into the chat uh first question is from teraboy asking how are the audits going any updates so audits are going well um you know kind of have had you know discussion with both auditors how born and trail of bits you know within the past couple of days um you know how born is making good progress you know they send us an update have a few more files to fix or to finish checking but will be you know they said they'll be able to finish on time which is awesome um on the trail of bit side of things uh you know we sent them over some you know some updated documentation that they really liked and you know hopefully we'll get them going um but you know they've been doing great so far and you know also hopeful that they'll be able to end on time but you know so far the adults are great and you know feel good about the quality of the auditors great to hear okay next in the chat we've got nasjack asking can we vote again on bfp 75 seems like a lot of people didn't vote because it seemed like he would go through until the very end well the short answer is there's gonna have to be another vote at some point and it's very likely that at least one of the options revolves around the being three curve pool again so there will be some vote again but don't think it would be reasonable to just simply repropose the same bfp although the way beanstalk governance is constructed in theory you can constantly repropose the same bip again and again so there's nothing wrong with it per se but definitely think that there should be a little bit more community discussion had and perhaps this is a good forum you know people want to come up and voice some of their opinions the people that voted against it uh and we can talk about you know potentially different options in the way the austin benefits the the main cost likely being time uh until being able to read plan beanstalk but you know that's you know you can always just re re-vote uh on something that was voted against in terms of any action that needs an affirmative vote for you can just vote again and again but to some extent there should be some more discussion in our opinion going forward all right so um i guess to that end if anybody wants to come up and talk about bfp7575 or any other items feel free to razor and i'm not seeing a lot of questions in the chat right now so kind of leave it open for the moment um [Music] if folks can feel free to raise their hand or see nasdaq is typing in the chat okay nasdaq asks can you give us a pitch as to why you think three curve is better than other options for the people that voted no well it's not about better better than other options there's there's a lot i mean there's infinite options you can do in theory uh beanstalk was originally launched with a bean eat pool because eath is the most decentralized uh censorship resistant onset on the ethereum blockchain the recurve is a significant step down from that however the the concept is that the liquidity prior to the attack was heavily weighted towards being three curve liquidity as supposed to be liquidity and it's somewhat strange to force the protocol economically back to a being eve pool uh and so the thought is really just for simplicity we really shouldn't launch with more than one poll once you try to launch with relaunch with more than one pool it's like it becomes a [ __ ] show uh it's much easier to add other pools immediately after relaunch and so uh our intention and i guess this wasn't uh maybe it was or wasn't included in bfp 75 uh was to propose a bean or deploy a bean eat pool immediately or shortly thereafter replant and then propose a bib to add it to the white list such that uh you know the economics of the system can play out and frankly think that the more reasonable conversation to have is uh around whether or not being east should be more heavily incentivized than being three curve whereas prior to the attack they were treated the same from beanstalk's perspective and in terms of seeds per bdb per deposit so ultimately we can we can relaunch with with a variety of different options if the goal is to relaunch with a completely audited code in a timely fashion being three curve or another uh another curve metapool will be necessary we could do like being two pool uh but that's that's got no liquidity so it's not really frankly but there's lots of different there's lots of different things we can do here from our perspective being really more and more when you think about it has to be the centerpiece of the system or one of the core centerpieces so it's just a question of whether to relaunch with it or to deploy the pool immediately after launch and then the the more important question is how to price it from beanstalk's perspective in terms of seeds okay yep looks like you got nasjack's follow-up question um so next question in the chat is from harry smith who asks will root labs launch at the same time as replanting you boot it again publius can you hear me now yes sir so not sure if mr manifold uh is in a crowd and wants to hop up and talk about that there he is yeah hey guys gm um so probably not at the same time as the beanstalk restart but hopefully not too long after um you know i think the main thing to just keep in mind is you know we're going to be lagging beanstalk when it comes to audits and and you know i don't think root is going to launch without having audited by at least you know one firm so um that could very well become you know the rate limiting factor but you know hopefully you know latest sometime in q3 uh of this year but you know hopefully on the early end of that well it's almost q3 already that sounds pretty soon perhaps it's uh well i mean we're talking crypto timelines right so yeah it depends on your perspective i guess fair enough sometimes it's hard to realize that beanstalk is only like 10 minutes old time of so so fast jesus all right got a few folks typing in the chat warthog and kobe in the meantime any thoughts on celsius oh man i think publicly has got got bumped again no i'm still here oh okay okay so next question from my was it is what happens if bip 20 doesn't pass slash reach quorum [Music] it's a great question don't really have a good answer for you it's it's one of those things that we're kind of in a weird spot right now given the nature of how governance typically works where it's totally autonomous whereas now there's some human input that's required and at the same time this is a particularly unique case where whereas normally if nothing happens beanstalk continues in this case if nothing happens nothing's gonna happen so it's like something has to happen and the goal is for the dow to approve whatever happens uh yes so it's a little bit weird to know what should happen if this if this isn't approved now just speaking off the cuff here uh all of the barn raised plans were done via a bfp so that was beanstalk farms saying this is what we propose and from that perspective you know and even the bcm related stuff all that has been beanstalk farms proposal so you know i think the spirit of proposing bip 20 as a bip as opposed to another bfp uh is that the goal is to move back to a more uh resistant to change governance structure sooner rather than later and contract changes should be voted on by the doubt with a 50 quorum but at the same time uh you know i i don't think it pushed him to shove and there was really no quorum reached and maybe maybe there was a second vote and there was still no quorum reached uh at some point it becomes reasonable for beanstalk farms to propose it as a bfp with with either no quorum or a much lower quorum and beanstalk farm saying well this is how we intend to continue and you know one of the cool things about the the structure of the barn rays and replant is that people that don't like the state of the system that we're in before can take their can can can take their unripened assets and uh you know basically claim claim the the underlying whatever's accrued and leave the system so that will happen over time and the people that are unhappy can leave but obviously yeah it's a very sticky weird situation i think you know the goal is between now and replant to use bips when necessary but at the same time if there's never going to be a quorum reached again that's a big problem so i think we'll have to evaluate that if if that happens but we'll just use this opportunity we never encourage people to vote one way or another but just encourage people to take a look at at the proposals and consider it uh and you know you can only vote in favor so we wouldn't say vote and then not tell people which way to vote if you say vote kind of like voting you know voting one director so we don't advise people whether they should vote or not but uh it's definitely a proposal that people should spend some time considering and looking at and it realize the implications of uh if there's not a quorum reach that were in a very weird spot collectively before i go back up to kobe so my was it essentially asked later on would it delay replanting sounds like you've hit that pretty well anything else you'd want to add well the the i mean hard to know if it would delay replanting in practice the the main obstacle to replanting is the the audit but probably uh in reality it would probably push things back at least a week or two you know we the goal is to wait until the seven day period is done and assume that the vote has passed um and well actually i mean thinking out loud here i can you unvote on snapshot i don't know if that's true or not but if you can't does anyone know if you can unvote or not does anyone know if you know maybe you can just chime in in the chat yeah i believe so it sounds like austin and jay dubs do too so i get the fact the voting system does mirror the same system as before so from that perspective yeah it does make sense to seven days and you know and basically hope that in seven days it's approved if not there's likely gonna be at least a couple day period between whenever the act that would have been taken upon uh passing of the death versus sorry to interrupt but you're breaking up pretty bad let me switch to a different device no problem can you hear me now yes much better there you go good to go all right let me let me know if that changes apologies no no worries at all so yeah it was yeah it's just saying that it would likely delay things at least a little bit all right okay to jump back up to kobe uh kobe asks how do you feel uh the recent downturn in eth would have impacted bean if it was up and running well it's it's impossible to know and that's one of the tragedies of beanstalk not being on in this incredibly crazy time but at the same time if we look at how beanstalk performed particularly once the bean price was stable during eat drawdowns the bean price was pretty uncorrelated at least over slightly longer intervals perhaps over the minute to minute the price remained correlated because of the eath exposure although that was also down because of the high amount of liquidity in the bean three curve pool so it's unclear how much exposure would have been just from the eat coming down although there was some then you also have to factor between the terra collapse and people this liquidity crunch let's call it where people wanted cash uh on the one hand perhaps people viewed being stuck as cash and safe and a place where there was yield in the bear market uh which would have been true or perhaps there was a significant amount of capital that was in beanstalk that reevaluated the risk uh in general on the entire repricing of the market and left and so at the end of the day the state of beanstalk is purely a function of supply and demand of and for beans and it's impossible to really forecast that now uh we tend to think that the model was performing in a state such and it was really in a high positive feedback loop where you would probably expect it to be pretty strong during this downturn uh you know it's a bummer that beanstalk's not on i think a lot of people are looking for yield right now and beanstalk was certainly offering yield and during a bear market right the bear market didn't start a month ago or two months ago it's the eath has been on its way down from us for a significant period of time and beanstalk had already started to demonstrate its ability to keep the peg even during an extended eat drawdown so har you know beanstalk's not on so shoulda coulda woulda but you know we were glass half full on this one okay next in the chat warthog asks if a different lp was decided on that's not a curve pool how long would it delay replanting and was it made clear before the vote that a curve pool was required for on-time replanting probably a month uh at least and i unclear frankly have you know other than class and the down meetings have not been in super in the weeds on communication and so it's hard to know it's hard to know how well it was communicated or how how much voters understood that now going forward whatever uh opportunity there is to vote on a bfp on a pool going forward i think it will be very clear in that case that people are voting for a delay uh but we can we can you know that perhaps it was a communication issue all right seen lots of good chatter in the chat not a lot of questions to ask if anybody has any questions drop them in or raise your hand they are talking about the bfp to bring back the voice mod though probably is hey you know if my voice is annoying you can just say lay it on us every once in a while for old time's sake all right warthog is typing in the chat okay warthog asks if we vote for three curve for lp initially could we add additional lps a month later yeah or less you can there could be a bit to add add another pool to the to or another lp token to the white list immediately after replaying all right back to the bottom of the questions still good chatter going on in the town hall chat okay so disco stew asks so the bip wasn't three curve or not but three curve first or not so clarify clarification uh so the bfp is more so for how what in what form is the funds raised by the fertilizer distributed you know we're you know basically issuing fertilizer in exchange for usdc we're going to take that usdc you know mint beans against it and add some form of liquidity between bean and a non-bean asset the vote is in that liquidity is what will be distributed to those who have the unripe lp token and the unripe lp token will be distributed to all of those who had lp tokens before the exploit so what we're voting on is what lp tokens did the people who had lp before the exploit get which will also serve to be the majority of liquidity for beanstalk for at least the short term but after the fact we can you know create and white list whatever pools we want in terms of the additional work needed for pools you know the work we've done so far specifically for curved metapools on curve there are kind of there are different types of pools metapools are pools where one of the lp tokens in the pool is the lp token of another pool so three curve is the lp token of the three curve pool so a being three curve pool is a meta pool between being in the three curve token on curve you also have plane pools the bean lusd pool was a plane pool where it was a pool between just two stable coins being in lusd now those pools uh you know will need kind of different logic for convert minting um you know whitelist is easy for the silo but for convert and minting they'll be slightly different work needed for unit swap pools like the beneath pool that will also require a bit of custom logic for convert and minting now a lot of this code is already written it would just need to be you know because we had it before it would just need to be re-added tested and audited before we would be able to add such pools most likely obviously unless the dow votes differently thank you for the additional color publius all right back into the chat so kobe bean asks uh have you received any feedback about the frax call yesterday yeah they i don't think they like being stuck very much now i don't think they're very receptive and i i would just comment you know it's funny and i i understand you know beanstalk's a risky risky proposition at this point in time but at the same time there's really something nice about a frax model where the main backing of the governance token in if assuming it was like a frax fork the fxs equivalent was bean stock credit right so you have some portion of usdc and then some portion of uh beanstalk credit backing the rest of it and i mean the frax model you know we've been kind of blunt about it in the past that it has its issues but at the same time you know there's there's certainly some something there so it's a shame that they they weren't very interested but you know to each his own fair enough all right next question in the chat warthog asks uh does publish share uh any concern about the risk of the usdt within three curve so this is a great question on the one hand there's always risk when it comes to centralized stable coins and that's one of the main reasons for a decentralized stable coin among others particularly high caring costs but the tether in particular is more opaque than usdc so it's not unreasonable that the market perceives it as more risky uh in general or from time to time however tether is older and you know there's endless tether fudd that runs in cycles and it's very hard to evaluate how serious it is other than you know [Music] over time we would hope that the industry moves towards stable coins that are more transparent uh but i mean it's just hard to analyze the [Music] it's hard to analyze the tether risk as being serious frankly uh particularly given the current state of beanstalk so when beanstalk is at scale perhaps it's something that's more reasonable to worry about obviously if tether went to zero and three curve is the only liquidity against beans that becomes a major problem for beanstalk and the price of beans would go to zero so that is a major issue but um [Music] yeah it's it's just hard to imagine that happening frankly definitely over the next year let's call it maybe maybe maybe that's a horrible take and they're they're they're next but we don't really view that as a serious concern [Music] hey next in the chats teraboy asks hypothetically if we needed more auditing are there funds available for this or would this be an issue so with the case of trail of bits there's actually been extra audit time already paid for and in the case of hal born believe that there's a little bit more funds in the money that was returned from the ukraine to pay for security and stuff so if there was any extra needed i think that would be coverable so in the goal is to not be limited in any way by funds on the audit front and think that well that will be the case certainly until replan after replant uh it's likely that there will be more more funds that need to get allocated towards security but assume there will be a a bip for a budget shortly after replay [Music] okay next breen asks currently we view it we use usdc to find our delta what are your thoughts on adding additional tokens later and aggregating them to find delta for instance using an e die in addition to eusdc so the problem is the goal is to have the most reliable oracle possible and there are very few stable coins on the ethereum blockchain that you can make the economic argument should be constantly being armed back to the price of a dollar within a very tight range based on the various frictions of performing the arbitrage and usdc as a function of being the most transparent and second largest but growing very quickly stable point is sure we view the the price reliability of usdc as the the the the best in class uh by a wide margin if the goal is just to find out what's the price of a dollar on chain and the from a censorship resistant perspective uh think that as long as usdc trades in any amm even if it's like a kyc amm as long as that amm is on chain such that beanstalk could query a t-wop or query information from that amm then and the amm was liquid enough that it was resistant to manipulation uh the then beanstalk can can use usdc if there's no amms with no liquidity that usdc trades in then it's not possible to use usdc but otherwise think that usdc is by a wide margin the best asset to use as its peg now frankly it's worth noting that the goal of generalized minting and launching with the bean 3 curve pool actually means that the price of uh the price of a bean is not just relative to usdc in fact it's re it's based on three curve which has exposure to die and to usdt and so and there's an assumption around the stability in the price that goes into the valuation there so to some extent launching with uh or using at all generalized minting in the curve pool that is that is in some way moving off of the pure usdc peg now it's probably it's probably a marginal thing particularly given how three curve is right now the the the the most liquid and most uh traded stable coin on x's at the moment that may change and in fact if we if we take a little bit of a step back and think about beanstalk governance the goal of beanstalk is to to exist in perpetuity and there is the this risk of various other stable coins and other assets uh collapsing under various instances there could have been a bean 4 pool what happens if tara collapses and there's a b4 pool that's getting minted off of beanstalk and governance needs to be able to move very quickly to prevent problems and the previous governance structure did have a 24-hour holding period before any changes could be made and certain things like that perhaps need to be reanalyzed so there's a lot of things that can be improved to to limit the risk associated with individual other currencies that beanstalk has exposure to but in the short term there's nothing wrong with per se using dye or tether as well as usdc as a an oracle for for for the bean price or as part of the oracle for the bean price but at the same time uh it is just worth noting that being eth comparing to the usdc eve pool that was how beanstalk launched because of the the fact that we view usdc as the best source of the price of a dollar on chain and die much less so uh much less so so usdc then usdt and then die of those three if you wanted a ranking this gustu has a it's a comment slash question so i'm going to run through it um stay right so if it's merely a question of sequence of lps then it feels like the prioritization should be primarily technical which can be rolled out with more speed and stability should probably go we should probably roll out first is that correct well that's the thought behind the beam three curve pull now the [Music] if pri if a month ago the decision had been made to launch with the unisra v2 pool again instead then there wouldn't be any any delay associated with it it's just a function of that that hasn't been implemented or audited at this point um but in terms of price stability this is the other thing so launching with a i mean one of the other open questions is what a parameter to launch was assuming it is a curve meta pool and one of the things that we really liked about the x times y equals k from unit swap v2 is you have a lot of volatility now the issue is that from a utility perspective people want to be able to buy and sell beans at tag in size and that's the really nice thing about stable swap so it's it's hard to to discount the fact that everyone was using stable swap and providing liquidity in the stable swap pools at a much higher rate than in the union swap pools and that was we're going to guess really understated by the fact that there wasn't even the ability to convert into curve lp at the time so everyone wanted to be in the curve pool it's hard to understand exactly why everyone wanted to be in the curve pool uh but that was the case uh perhaps it's the impermanent loss uh but in general that's the market pricing things and and saying there's demand for the three curve pool so from beanstalk's perspective if beanstalk really over values more the bean eath pool which i think is very reasonable for beanstalk to do then it probably has to pay a higher premium for the for the bean eath pool lp than it does for being three curve which was not the case prior so this is another axis that the dow needs to be able to vote on in a way that's not so arbitrary but but but does offer some flexibility such that beanstalk can can can move exposure from assets that it wants to to decrease exposure to as as a collective but this is i mean it's a very from a social economics perspective it's very sophisticated right the concept that the dow can vote to like downgrade an asset and if beanstalk is really uh at scale a large player in d5 then the downgrading of that asset could be really substantive right so that's when i mean it's a fascinating fascinating concept all right next in the chat jams asks how's the team holding up in general uh well there's lots of uh i see silo chad reacted with a like a crazy haha face so uh perhaps he's doing worse than uh we are on this end but we're having a ball uh we've been quite thrilled with the response from the auditors so far uh there haven't been any major problems that have been found uh or at least you know things that would cause a delay so it's like that's all that's the only thing we've been like holding our breath for and so far so good obviously there's a couple weeks more left in the audit so we're still still holding our breath but that's been nice and otherwise we're here working on the white paper uh we it's a lot of work to be done on the migration i mean there's a lot of stuff going on but at the same time it's very you know there's nothing we'd rather be doing than working on beanstalk so it's unfortunate that beanstalk gets an on during the bear market to really show how good it is but we'll we'll hopefully find out soon or not bet in the bear market's not going to end uh just yet probably pretty safe um all right next in the chat so long live bean asks have we reconsidered haircuts for podla for the pod line given recent crypto market movements since initial replay the initial replanting proposal since beanstalk relies on new creditors for its price stability a larger than 700 million podline seems quite long current market conditions well the dow can do whatever it wants but frankly have some updated thoughts on this uh it probably would have been a real a real mistake for the dow to vote to to cut people's pots it says in the white paper we've been working on it says it right there beanstalk will never default on its debt and to haircut the debt would have been some form of default and at the same time perhaps that does result in the collapse of the entire system an unwillingness to give haircuts to to creditors uh or default on certain debt results in a collapse of the system but at the same time the the the calculus on lending beans to beanstalk uh is that you can know your exact return and you have to discount uh the the risk associated with that but that's a cleaner economic calculation then well what if i get a haircut as well so i i'm glad that the dow went the opposite direction uh and going forward uh you know don't think we will be advocating for cutting any debt at any point i think it would have been a mistake at this point all right jws is typing in the chat definitely want to invite anybody else to type in or raise their hand and come up on stage looks like we got i'm going to say this is pronounced 30 30 also typing 33 jdubs the anticipations killing us anything else you want to cover for a moment probably is all we've got folks typing in the chat no class is a class is a time for questions only so much we can uh get on our soapbox fair enough ipos we finn to make it or not uh so we it depends if you're still uh buying in and you're not gonna haircut your your ripening assets and get out quick uh betting the over we're very excited about the relaunch you know we'll see what happens but at the same time we have a lot of optimism about seeing the model shake out and frankly think that you know again the strategy of throwing it out to the wolves and such such brutal market conditions that's exciting so uh we'll see what happens all right random tasks a random task asks as we approach the v2 launch what keeps you up at night what's your primary concern and how can we activate the community to support you in that area well we'll just speak personally but the stuff that i'm spending more and more of my brain power on and dreaming about is really trying to understand how beanstalk would work as a credit based issuer of money at scale and what are the at scale what are the big problems and particularly the the thing to think about is during the the the the value of beans are derived from the assets that it trades that beans trade against in various amms and so you can think about that value as exogenous value but that value uh its values derive from there being a bid on those assets and in a bear market what we're seeing is that the bid disappears and the price of those assets collapses and so even if there's nothing per se that has changed about beans or demand for beans just the fact that the price of these other assets goes down let's take ethereum as the the main example that that decreases the demand for beans apples to apples as beanstalk views it and so the question is well let's say beanstalk is the main use case on ethereum and that there's a lot of demand for ethereum because of demand for beanstalk uh and beanstalk has been accumulating or incentivizing the accumulation and holding of ethereum in its lp pools the question is well what happens if there's a catalyst that causes a deep egg in the price of beans which causes a decrease in the short-term expected value of ethereum because beanstalk is going through a bear cycle in and of itself and that results in a major collapse in the value of ethereum which creates this negative feedback loop where the price of a bean is derived from the value of ethereum but the value of ethereum is derived from the value of beanstalk and then even though ethereum is in theory exogenous value you still really have this like negative feedback loop that existed in tara where the thing that you need a bid for is a fungible asset aetherium uh which you know it's that's an ugly position to be in so trying to think through different ways to manage that risk at the protocol level and figure out it you know in a 80 90 95 drawdown of the eth price assuming that being stuck is the main like most of the value capture on the ethereum blockchain is in being stuck in some capacity and that the value of beans are derived primarily from the price of ether uh as opposed to other stable coins for example uh the that that's really the main question what happens in a crazy bear market so you know yeah it have some have some have some ideas on on answers to that uh but those are the types of questions that that that plague plague us uh in our sleep at the moment all right harry smith asks any progress in tracking the exploiter uh not not really frankly uh we'll i mean yeah it's been kind of like we're waiting for the the next steps from the government and other than that nothing really to update on it's hard to i mean there's nothing substantive all right so next in the chat so i've got 33d and jdubs that that kind of talk about two similar ideas so i'm going to do my best to combine them in a way that makes sense so um really comes down to this idea of re-voting on the three curve pool and um so uh 33d recommends that we do so jdubs talks about this idea of a a multi-option bfp where multiple pools could potentially be voted on um publish you have any thoughts on utilizing a multi-vote bfp for this well in general you know not so in favor of multiple options uh as that you know this is again we go back to the sticky sticky area between should this be a bip or a bfp and what's a quorum it's hard to know and you know there's really no right answer here so the situation is that being three curve is the one that will be the fastest as it's currently being audited in theory you could do with with another being uh metapool on curve but other than that anything would cause a delay so you can have an option to do being three curve uh do b metapool or have a delay uh or you could just do being three curve and have a delay which would probably be the most reasonable and then if there's a delay then people can decide what what are the other pools to vote on but it's like if anything the vote is whether to delay to do something different okay we're at the bottom of the chat um certainly want to invite anybody else that's got more questions we've got about eight more minutes for the hour um so a little bit of time to to talk left we also definitely want to welcome anybody who wants to hop up on stage can do so all right couple folks typing in the chat random task as question is there a minimum amount of fertilizer sales needed to get to replant one dollar or one usgc i guess looks like we cleared the bar loving the barn rays thus far okay so random tasks has a clarification uh says they say i'm at like sales minimums overall seeing about 12 so far is there a magic number no so apologies for the short answer before but the concept is if beanstalk raised no money in the barn raise it would be the equivalent of basically relaunching but with all this prior obligations so the concept is apples to apples there is probably a sweet spot the full 77 million might actually be too aggressive uh particularly given current market conditions but at the same time you know the the what is it nine million already purchased uh if it were up to us you know if the audits were done we would just turn it back on right now so uh there's no minimum there's more than enough to restart the protocol don't think that will have a substantive effect on the likelihood of a successful the success of the replant is unlikely to be related to whether it's 10 20 30 million dollars that ultimately comes in when it's all said and done nine million sixty three thousand five thirty five okay down to the bottom of the chat not seeing any hands up four minutes to go uh oh harry smith is typing all right harry did not have a question well what do you think biblica you want to wait out the last four minutes or call it a little bit early let's spare everyone the uh uh let me spare everyone and maybe awkward silence yeah we'll get one around 30 more seconds and then call it uh sure call it a day see at least someone's typing and yeah you know it's it's good to be exhaustive so if there's anything on people's mind but otherwise think uh yeah i think let's call it now but you know just wanna just want to say that at the end of the day recognize the desire to get this thing back on quickly but i kind of do want to push back on the notion of the right thing to do is to just rush forward with the beam three curve just because of the delays let's get this thing right like collective decision making is really hard uh there's a lot i we spoke that we don't think the tether risk is uh reasonable but being three curve isn't as good as being eth as a corporal it's just worth having the honest discussion about everything not just this one issue and frankly i'm thrilled that the dow voted against it temporarily and let's have a better discussion let's be more clear let's let's weigh this all out so this is all part of a healthy discourse and we're uh we're very very grateful to be a part of it so thank you all we'll you know talk talk in the discord yep thanks everybody and actually so random task is typing i'm gonna let him finish out and if he doesn't have a question up just saying have a good night all right so with that we will cut everybody loose thanks for joining us and yeah we'll see in the discord you