Beanstalk University Class #3

Beanstalk University Class #3

November 16, 2021
0:00 Intro • 0:20 What Caused the ESD Stablecoin Failure? • 8:40 Why Beanstalk Issues Debt/Soil Every Season, Regardless of Price • 13:10 Soil and Pod Clearance Rate • 20:10 Why People are Resowing • 22:20 What Are The Metrics For Adoption? • 29:00 Why Do We Need Curve Liquidity? • 32:20 Timing for Pod Marketplace? • 38:55 What Is The Benefit of Having Governance Token Separate from Liquidity Token • 47:20 BeaNFT Updates • 51:00 Has Beanstalk Looked Into Using Chainlink Oracle? • 56:30 Solana Beanstalk Implementation? • 1:02:30 Market Cycles and Deleveraging? • 1:05:00 Publius Closing Remarks
Beanstalk University



Apologies but there were no notes from class #3. Recording is above. If you want to listen in and take notes, please do and send them to us!


if anyone has any questions this is a great time to kind of ask you know there are no stupid questions so uh happy to walk people through anything p3shu welcome to class yes we're going to call you right up just invited you hello can you hear me yes great that's step one uh publius i was wondering could you just help me get a better understanding of what led to the empty set dollar blow up i've kind of just heard anecdotally that's one of yours help uh point me to where that resource might be if i'm missing it already or maybe just speak speak more about that that'd be super helpful thank you sure so psd went through basically two rapid succession growth and debt cycles and almost never actually stayed at a dollar so if we walk through the timeline of events of esd and our memory isn't perfect so uh bear with me as i try to put the story together in a way that's comprehensive but esd started where it had a predefined uh number of prints so psd had epics and in order to bootstrap esd they had a predefined number of epics where they basically said every season or in the beanstalk eastern season so i apologize but every epic the price no matter how the price is trading on esd on the market the oracle is going to read 1.4 and specifically the esd inflation formula was based not off of the liquidity pool uh but was based on the market cap uh when compared to being stuck so if the price was 1.02 the supply would increase two percent uh and so the price was 1.4 which meant that the price increased 40 every epic and long story short people thought that after the bootstrap esd was going to be worth a dollar at least for some time and if you kind of backtrack that aggressive inflation schedule of 40 every epic for a couple weeks um that basically created a huge amount of demand for esd in the short term but when the printing stopped there was still a little bit more demand for esd and then quickly it went through a debt cycle and after it went through a dead cycle um and i believe and i'm sort of making this up but if i recall correct it was around 80 million in market cap at that time uh it went through a short like a two-week debt cycle and then after the debt cycle ended the debt cycle ended immediately because again the the inefficient esd coupon model that we've talked about in the past made it so that all at once people led to esd and the debt cycle ended but once it ended then it immediately went into another massive growth cycle and it never actually hung out at one and so then after going through a quick bed cycle and it went up to up to one above one started printing again grew to a couple hundred million but never actually hung out at one and so it never had a chance to create any utility it never had a chance to demonstrate any stability and in practice it was just like a huge oscillator around one that was bound to oscillate wider and wider around one not more and more narrow around one over time if that makes sense so in practice it started off as a small wave that was set off with a pretty large bootstrap at 1.4 and then that wave was too large um such that it was it only went through really two cycles before it petered out and one thing we would want to highlight about specifically where beanstalk is in its current cycle is that basically excuse me because beanstalk is continuing to issue so much debt all the prices at one it is going to allow beanstalk to continuously grow steadily and continue to take in new demand for beans while regularly returning the price to one so even if now beanstalk goes through a pretty consistent growth cycle over the next couple weeks while the debt is really high so there's no season of plenty looming so the price might in short periods of time pump above one but after like because there are so many pods that are going to come harvestable ultimately the expectation is that beans will continue to oscillate around one even if they trend a little bit more on the positive side above one during the growth cycle continuing to oscillate around the peg is meaningful to stability and the fact that there's so much outstanding debt also means that beanstalk isn't going to go through a wild oscillation now where it's just going to grow uncontrollably because every season that beanstalk grows part of that growth comes with paying off debt that's immediate supply which can be released on the market and that can curb short-term inflation so the the expectation is that uh beanstalk is going to be able to grow in a much more sustainable uh way while the price oscillates around one uh as as compared with with esd and if we look at the record and obviously the the smaller market cap of bean stock at 20 you know the low 20 millions right now um it is much smaller than esd's market cap at a similar point in its lifetime it launched in late august of 2020 uh and was a couple hundred million esd in december uh but never re-pegged after mid-december so beanstalk just turned 100 days old uh this week and is now about a month away from being the longest surviving algo stable coin that regularly oscillates around one uh you know that is non-collateralized um and that's pretty exciting that that's that's potentially around the corner and if you compare the market caps bean stock seems to be growing uh much slower than esd but if you compare the pod line and the future market cap that is implied by the current debt of bean stock uh you know the current market cap of beanstalk as implied by the pod line is a little over 200 million uh so that is sort of competitive with esd but the important part is that the price of one penis at a dollar and that's very exciting great thank you so much that's super helpful appreciate it pleasure uh where have you been were you able to figure out uh how to unmute all right well it's gonna be a recurring bit i guess uh in today's class um we have a hand from uh uh aj here absolutely come on up all right i'm here hi hi everybody um oh thanks for doing this um i also want to say before i ask my question that i do have several questions so if you guys get for more content and no one else has questions just feel free to put me back up on stage i was wondering why is beanstalk why is it important that beanstalk is willing to issue debt every season regardless of the price of bean that's a great question thank you and welcome the the general idea behind ish being willing to issue debt every season it doesn't mean that beanstalk necessarily issues debt every season but the idea behind being willing to issue debt every season is that it allows bean stock to get a much more accurate consistent sample data or demand for soil so if we look at how the mechanism works at a high level being stock adjusts the weather every season based on the price the debt level and the demand for soil and having a consistent data sample for supply excuse me for demand for soil uh helps facilitate accurate uh strong like what is uh it allows the model to work in a consistent fashion whereas if the if we compare to something like the basis model the idea that you're only willing to issue debt when the price is less than one well it's very hard for people to price the debt uh in the case where you're not offering debt every season so in beanstalk's case if beanstalk was not if there wasn't soil every season how could beanstalk know what the efficient weather is as compared to the current weather and so ultimately if pinstock goes through extended periods of time where there's no soil and the price is greater than one bean stock isn't going to have the opportunity to figure out whether it should raise or lower the weather and you may say well given that the price is greater than one the weather should definitely come down but that type of thing should be reflected in the weather changes but in general the idea is that because beanstalk wants to set the weather or change the weather to be closer to the optimal weather every season it's important that it has access to the right data to do that and offering soil every season even if it's a small amount of soil allows that to take place and when we think about the cost of offering a small amount of soil every season especially during a growth cycle there's no harm in offering soil because it just means that there's going to be more marginal supply coming due each season because of the interest paid out on this on the soil so even if there's no pod line the soil is ultimately going to be net inflationary in a way that creates immediate supply and that should help create stability even if it creates volatility or short-term uh short-term volatility it should create stability in the long run at a in a way that is generally positive for beanstalk meaning beanstalk isn't going to have an issue issuing lots of debt sorry to say issue twice there but it's not going to have a problem issuing debt during periods where there's high demand for beans and it's growing quickly so thank you thank you appreciate that that was really informative and we'll definitely get you back up here throughout the class thank you jww we saw you uh hopped up here did you have a question yeah actually well i apologize i don't see the ability to just raise my hand to make a request i think i'm only able to jump on the stage uh maybe you guys gave me a special microphone or something um but actually police on that note could you just walk through one more time the the um ensuring the marginal supply with the soil that you were just talking about um just kind of reiterate it one more time can you just clarify what you want on me to expand on yeah yeah just expanding a little bit more on the soil the soil and the pod line relationship i guess trying to elaborate more on it would be great in general or just in the context of what i was saying there i think in general sure so what's what's been exciting to see since bip2 has passed is that there's been a massive increase in reselling so people harvesting and instantly reselling which according to bip2 was tax efficient or created a more efficient way to do that at least in theory and since then we've seen a massive increase in demand for soil uh and the soil went from uh like close to its maximum level of 5.7 or something based on the supply at that time and the supply was something like 24 million to now uh closer to 4 million maybe a little bit higher than 4 million at this point 4.2 or 3 last we checked and that's a general indicator that people that have lent to being stocked in the past are interested in re-lending to beanstalk and that's obviously a good signal but more than that the fact that soil was being eaten up and the potline is growing and while that is happening there continues to be demand for beans below a dollar if we look at what happened over the past day with eath crashing eight percent and beans basically not tipping below 99 cents at all during that dip uh because there was so much demand for beans below a dollar uh both demand for soil and demand for stock meaning demand for depositing assets in the silo that's pretty exciting so at a high level when we analyze what's going on with the pod line ultimately right now there's almost 100 million pods outstanding and 20 million circulating beans or so and we're using ground numbers but if we take into account that half of all bean mints are paid out to this to the field to pot harvest the fact that there are 100 million pods means that people lending to beanstalk are currently valuing beanstalk uh at 100 million pods times two is 200 million plus the current supply of 20 so around 220 million so uh when we talk about dean stock's growth on the debt side people are lending to beanstalk like a 220 million dollar valuation and now uh as the pod line continues to grow because there's still four million plus soil uh that will mean that people will continue to lend to beanstalk at a higher and higher valuation uh if beanstalk issues another 100 million soil which is certainly possible given the weather and the current soil that will lead to the poverty growing twice as long and that will lead to the implied valuation by the debt level to be twice as high and all that that does is it allows beanstalk to grow slowly and steadily into that valuation all the price stays at one and so the way that at least in theory and obviously this has never happened before in practice so we're talking about how the model works in theory once all the soil is gone uh it's actually a great question to answer right after the last question which is the one of the benefits of beanstalk offering debt every season once all the soil has been eaten up is that now beanstalk can start to gauge very accurately based on the small amount of soil it issues every season which you can assume will start to be eaten up because once all of the current available soil is sown the idea is that beanstalk basically will start to deleverage from there so it will have issued something like uh 200 million pods uh valuing being stock at around 400 million and then from there it will start to grow into that valuation the supply will increase the debt level will decrease and a major deleveraging begins and as beanstalk grows into that valuation it will start to pay off pods start to pay off uh stockholders and then it will use the aquarium of the demand for soil each season uh the small amount of available soil that it creates in order to determine how quickly it can lower the weather and ultimately as the deleveraging happens that will be when beanstalk is able to aggressively lower the weather so when we talk about where we're at in the soil and podline cycle if we assume that there continues to be good uh aggressive demand for beans below one meaning that beanstalk doesn't hang out below one for a an extended period of time and issue a lot more soil what we would expect to happen is as the current available soil gets eaten up the podline will grow extensively once all the available soil is eaten up a major deleveraging begins beanstalk will start to lower the weather uh and the supply will start to grow more aggressively the return in the silo will start to uh you know become competitive with the pods return as the python continues to grow and the idea being overtime liquidity will increase in the silo and the increase in liquidity will lead to an increase in the pods harvesting and the return to to stockholders and between the deleveraging and the increase in liquidity at some point a positive feedback loop really starts to take place so what we've generally been seeing over the past couple uh days and maybe a week now since the bip uh passed was uh an aggressive move in that direction that's really really helpful um and a lot of content to chew on there um can you elaborate a little bit more or just talk to you um when you said that the the soil being at about 5.7 um and i think it's a little bit closer to four you said or four two or four three right now being a good indicator that people are reinvesting can you talk through that piece a little bit more because i thought i understood the soil but i might be missing it so if you look at and this in order to kind of justify the statement it requires a little bit more on-chain investigation but if you look at just the circulating beans which now are around 700 something thousand uh when bib two passed it was over two million and maybe like 2.2 million if i recall correctly and uh based on the transactions that have taken place since then uh the vast majority of them uh were in the they were circulating beans but they were in the form of harvestable beans uh meaning the website a harvestable bean not as a pod because it's no longer debt it's been paid off but instead it's effectively a circulating being and so it's hard to speculate as to exactly why there were so many paws that weren't harvested um beyond a tax reason right which was the main reason for the bip um and we we did make right the dip you know with the community in mind because it was an idea that came to us from the community so all we know a lot of the sewers were the people that proposed that idea to us um that reinvested but basically there were a lot of transactions that uh harvested and immediately re-sowed and that accounted for a large portion of the uh the soil that was uh stone into over the past couple days about the demand side the demand for being what are the metrics we're looking for for adoption by other projects and i guess can we just get a better idea of timelines there and what the steps look like to success thank you sure so with uh and obviously jww if you have more questions we're happy to answer them at some point during the class um if when we compare sort of being stock and the current state of adoption to other stable coins or what metrics of success might look like the first thing to state is that it's still very early and beans have only really been oscillating around one for around a month and so it's a little bit of a difficult sell at this point in time uh for a lot of protocols to integrate beanstalk as a stable coin now with that said there's a lot of integrations that do make sense in the near future that can create more stability for example one thing that we've talked about in the discord a little bit is that we're considering uh and sort of working on and thinking about it a lot uh launching a bean three curve curve pool and something like that would both create a a large increase in stability because of the ability to arbitrage uh the unispha pool against the curve pool and you don't really have a loss in decentralization because at the end of the day you can still come back to the units while pool if need be and so you have an increase in stability but one thing that makes an integration like that a little bit more complex is that if being stock price oracle uh and more than just the price oracle but the the general oracle and supply increase doesn't factor in the liquidity in the curve pool you could have the price at very close to a dollar with not a ton of uniswap liquidity and accordingly uh not a lot of minting of soil or beans um that wouldn't necessarily be efficient and so one thing that especially when we're adding uh another dex where we expect a large portion of volume to accrue uh in the near future and it have a meaningful effect on the penn stock price uh we would want it we would want to incorporate the liquidity in that pool into beanstalk and that does require you know a non-zero amount of work and doing it properly uh is obviously also a little bit more of a complicated endeavor so we're taking our time to make sure that we do it properly but that's something in the short term on the integration front that we're working on and when we talk about other integrations uh and what sort of metrics for success look like i think over the next couple of weeks and months as beans continue to oscillate around a dollar uh it'll be much more natural uh to pursue integrations and various opportunities for protocols to start using beans uh once the model really starts to demonstrate long-term stability so especially has been stock t leverages a little bit uh and and really shows that this model is sustainable and it's going to go through another cycle in a sustainable fashion which would imply that over time it's going to grow to hopefully billions of beans you know at some point it becomes attractive for various protocols to be an early integrator into being stuck that can be beneficial to them as well so there's a balance between being too small where it's not attractive to them and being too large where at some point it's just not in not in necessarily anyone's interest other than just because beings are starting to be used everywhere so there's real demand for it so when we talk about integrations and partnerships and things like that um that's something that we expect will start to happen more as the price hangs out around one over the next couple weeks and months and we would add that our community has has done a pretty good job of getting us connected with various potential integrations and we would just use this opportunity to reissue a call that if there are integrations that you want to see uh or can help facilitate or both uh definitely give us a shout in the discord and this is all part of a healthy discourse and uh you know speaking factually the curve integration was largely inspired by uh mcdonald's one of our bean farmers who suggested that uh they'd be able to allocate some cage so uh these are things that we we're constantly taking feedback from the community into into account on where we should be spending our time and integrations is definitely one of them but there's a lot of different uh different different places that work needs to be done and integrations is only one of them so it's a balance of not integrating too much too quickly while being stuck is continuing to work on itself as well perfect thank you that that's a pretty clear information can you just describe uh as a following here the benefit of having the curve what could it be cool as well maybe explain it yeah i'll loosen it down a little bit more would be helpful to me thank you so much again for all this it's a very informative sure what what is it that you want explained just for my understand just so i can why did we answer your question additional so right now if you kind of look at the development of amms over time one thing that is has to be given there has to be an immense amount of credit given to the x times y equals k model and uniswap is a really elegant implementation of that but at the same time it's not capital efficient and accordingly there's a lot of uh price movement uh on even relatively small trades in the b unit swap v2 pool and uh uniswap v3 has sort of a unique way of approaching this they say that anyone can add liquidity at any point on the price curve that they want but ultimately then there are some drawbacks like for example the liquidity tokens for uniswap v3 are non-fungible and the price oracle that's uh native to unisquad v3 is a little bit less reliable and more manipulable because anyone can add liquidity at random spots on the curve and then with a like a publicly knowable amount of capital immediately drive the price to that place on the curve and sort of create artificial prices uh in many cases and so uniswap v3 isn't uh necessarily the best place to construct uh the the core price oracle to be in stock at least at this point in time and so at this stage of the game one of the things that is essential is that beanstalk continues to improve its utility and uh in addition to just stability utilities and part of the ability to actually purchase beans at or around a dollar and curve and specifically curve stable swap allows a much more efficient a way to do that where you'll have much less slippage on transactions of similar sizes in a similar size liquidity pool and that should result in bean stock trading much closer to a dollar and then the arbitrage opportunity between the being eve a unisua pool and the being three curve curve pool uh will allow uh the unison pool to trade much tighter to a dollar as well which should create more stability and more utility which is generally good and then on top of that when we talk about integrations curve sort of introduces being stuck to another massive pool of capital potentially and there's all sorts of derivatives and complex financial instruments built on top of curve that once you have a being three curve pool lots of different uh sophisticated players can start to get involved in various capacities and that's also very exciting potentially i saw a couple hands raised before i brought bernard up on the stage what's up bruno lee bean i like your your username thank you very much uh so my question was on the the timing for the pod marketplace uh because i was just specifically thinking of how uh you know creating an after market for pods you know probably might help end the first death cycle and that it's going to be a lot more attractive to sell if uh if there there's less of a lock up implied with those so it's just kind of uh curious uh what the progress on that project looks like and if there's any sort of uh expected date for for that to launch well uh not to put you on the spot but in the spirit of decentralized uh maybe we could get bean joyer who is one of the leaders on the pod marketplace front uh which to date has been totally community-led uh maybe beanjoy or if you don't mind kind of coming up and giving a status update to the community on where things are at uh but if if you don't have a mic or don't want to raise your hand you know we're also happy to give people uh an update ourselves all right so uh p enjoyer if you want to hop on feel free to raise your hand but uh we'll start talking so totally agree the community has expressed real desire in a pod marketplace there's sort of a basic v1 which we're working on as we speak and specifically the community is really leading the way and we're doing our best to guide them but there's active development happening and anyone who is interested in working on that i should definitely come hang out uh in the dev pod marketplace lab or dev pod market lab channel or anyone who's working on the pod marketplace can chat and the general idea behind the v1 is that there's going to be basic exchange functionality people can list an offer for pods so if you if you have plots you can list them for sale at a given price and if you want to buy pods you can issue a standing offer for a place in line at a given price uh or any place further up in line so you kind of can input your max place and line demand uh as a bid and that's just going to be a basic v1 that allows people to exchange their pods in a decentralized capacity but over time the hope is to develop that into a more sophisticated pod marketplace that allows for more efficient uh sophisticated uh bids and offers like if you wanna list your plot right now it has a certain place in line but as it moves up in line the price that you wanna list your plot for by change and so you should really be able to enter a function in theory it should really be an arbitrary function or a close to arbitrary function on how you want the price to change over time and uh and things like that where you know added sophistication that should make for a much more efficient liquid pod marketplace but and obviously you'd be able to input a bid in a similar capacity but things like that take a little bit more time to develop and on top of that one one feature that we want to have that is difficult to do in a decentralized capacity is if there's a plot listed in a bid listed that as the plot line moves up sort of overlap they weren't overlapping before but now as the plot line is moved forward start to overlap we do want to have some sort of decentralized clearance system so that even if the buyer or the seller isn't live or watching the market other some incentive to clear that trade at the most efficient uh price for both uh buyer and seller so things like that we're actively working to figure out uh and we'd love to have more people come and participate on working on the pod marketplace uh so anyone who's interested definitely give us a shout but in general this is something that we're working on and it's hard to give an exact deadline but uh hopefully by 2021 you know by the end of the year we'll have a very basic uh decentralized pod exchange going at the very least awesome thank you and can we just uh dm y'all to get added to that channel definitely great thank you yeah yeah sorry i'm in transit right now so it makes it it makes it a bit difficult to speak um but yeah i didn't mean to put you on the spot i know i'm on a bike but i can chat really briefly so there there will be a basic v1 uh hopefully in the upcoming weeks and well that will just entail is the ability to list a plot um and so just post a plot listing with some expiration date whether that is a time or a place in line so say 2 million pods have been harvested then that will expire automatically and so i we would love feedback as to whether time or pods like what people would prefer for an expiration date um on the plots they'd like to list and then obviously the ability to buy and see the the plots that are listed though it still makes sense to handle over-the-counter transactions in the discord because you don't want to waste gaff with singer plots and then having them knock as cold so there you should still it'll just be a verifiable way to settle transactions because there they'll be officially listed so that's all i want to say yeah any solidity devs or anybody that wants to help out in any you be capacity for that update so anyone else who's on stage uh if you have questions feel free to check chime in or uh all right thank you um so uh let's see i have a bunch the whole list so i was wondering this is totally uh being related it's a good question i think um and it is not related to anything we've been talking about what is the benefits of having a governance token separate than the liquidity pool token in this silo and i'll follow that up by saying because it seems to me that by having the liquidity token contribute be the only way to to gain stock that would help increase liquidity in the liquidity pool and that's my question thanks for letting me out so in order to answer this you have to put beanstalk in the context of what it's trying to do in the grand scheme of things and if i have us dollars in the form of beans the most simple use of my us dollars when i'm not using them is to earn passive interest in the silo and if there was only the opportunity to earn passive interest by depositing lp then anytime anyone wanted to deposit their circulating beans in the silo they would either have to match it with eath uh or sell half of their beans into eat and that creates cell pressure so the idea is in order to offer just a basic passive us dollar deposit account where anyone can hold beans hold their dollars and earn interest in order to do that you basically need to offer stock available for bean deposits in addition to lp deposits that makes perfect sense and that was a super easy answer thank you i had a quick question yeah go ahead um i was wondering where the i was looking in the in the white paper and i didn't see it maybe i missed it but um where i know that we've had a very you know very fair launch and we don't have a lot of you know and there's been some discussion of uh fees or taxes on transactions to try to add to a treasury that have been nixed because we want to keep everything as um you know as fair as possible which i totally get and and the more that i've thought about it i think the the better the better that is um the question i had was where does um the the the treasury that you know um money that comes to uh to reward the season the calling of the season and for the small things like for example our t-shirts where does that money uh come from and can you talk about the those kinds of budgets and and that sort of thing great question so the money for sunrises is very different than the budgets uh new beans and it's not a predetermined number of beans fermented every season to incentivize an efficient sunrise call so you can kind of think about the cost to encourage people to call the sunrise function every hour on ethereum as a cost of doing business almost like a net burn of the system and if you say roughly the cost is a hundred beans or 100 an hour we can even bump it up a little bit maybe say 150 and there's 24 seasons in a day we're basically saying 3600 beans minted per day and then there's 365 days in a year so around a 100 thousand beans uh sorry around a million beans a year is the is the emissions of the system uh and in general when you consider the burn on you know the operating expenses on a bank like uh you know any of the large banks today a million dollars is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of our operating expenses so that is just the net emissions of being stock to to run itself um that's kind of a running cost and when it comes to the budgets all of the money is part of any of the budgets that are currently listed like on the website is budget beans uh in total so far 200 000 beans have been minted for budgets those were approved to be minted not according to the normal supply issuance by the silo by all of the stockholders and in practice uh you know those beans were just minted out of out from the bip and the reason this model of creating beans once uh is in our opinion the best way to do this is because it obviously at the time the beans are minted there's an increase in the supply so in some regards there's dilution of the bean supply but it's important to realize hey that dilution is approved by the stockholders who are entitled to earn beans from future inflation so they're diluting themselves uh and they're delaying a pot harvest slightly at the margin but the reason it's an elegant way to do it is in practice it's a one-time cost and there's no other cost ever borne by the system other than things that are approved by stockholders so if you compare this way of creating uh funds for budgets is something like you know one percent of all withdrawals are kept by beanstalk uh in a treasury or something like that it just creates a drag on the system and it creates friction within the system that is permanent and the reason that the budgets are not deposited in the silo is if you mint one percent of the bean supply which two hundred thousand penises close to one percent of the bean supply you deposit all that in the silo there's like 20 million beans deposited in the silo right now you're basically diluting all the stockholders permanently uh by one percent and then you basically have a permanent tax so instituting a tax at the protocol level is de facto the same as minting beans one off and then depositing them in the silo so the way that we'd like this to be done and ensure that there's the minimal amount of inflation to pay for things from the dow uh exclusively uh is that you know any any beans are minted once through a bit that is very specific as to the use of the beans okay wonderful yeah that's uh great that's exactly what what i uh wanted to hear that's a really good answer thank you thank you for the question and you know we would just use this as an opportunity to encourage everyone to ask you know weird questions too like that one that uh might not might not uh seem to be appropriate they're perfectly appropriate so anything that's on your mind this is a great opportunity to ask it and as we have a couple more minutes here until we uh wind down class uh you know we would use this uh opportunity to encourage anyone to ask yeah one more uh oh yeah we have jww and then we're gonna invite uh just use a pen as well but j dubs what's up yeah my apologies didn't mean to jump uh jump the line but really quick can you just give an update uh i haven't been able to follow the discord how the nft conversation is going i know there was something there was chatter about like a maybe an lp sign for the winter or something like that i don't know if there's any kind of an update that uh you can share if that's just being driven by the community so we had hoped uh and this was kind of the running bit about where have you been not being able to speak for some reason uh but they were supposed to be here at the beginning to kind of give a little bit of an update but uh we've spoken with them and they seem to have a couple really good ideas about the bnfts and uh our interest there seem like a little bit more on the art side and the game side of the bnfts and obviously we understand the protocol side of it and they've expressed an interest in leading the charge there and the last we heard from them they were drafting some sort of proposal um but we don't have much more substance there i know that idea being discussed is that there would be uh you know similar to sewing beans last time uh in this case it would be uh probably some sort of incentive for sewing lp uh and the hope would be for how to have the bnft winter event coincide with uh the addition of a bip uh for pol for protocol on liquidity where people can start to sew lp to beanstalk in exchange for pods so that's an idea that we've been working through and think it's generally pretty economically sound and will create more efficiencies for being stuck and pol seems like in general the way that e5 2.0 is going and we don't think that there's any problem with a pol in this case and our original objection was our concern that if the pol had stock and seeds then it would be a tax on on people as we were sort of just discussing but the idea here is that the pol would not own any stock and seeds and would just be permanent liquidity so uh not sure if i have much more to add on the dnfts but that's uh that's sort of where our head is at and hopefully uh we hear more from where have you been and maybe we get a proposal from them soon obviously you know the holidays are around the corner so this is something that we want to get a move on sooner rather than later and you know on the artist front uh the artists who did the b f t v ones who thus far would like to remain anonymous uh uh has you know they've been working on the website and so our hope is to hire them to do uh the p f t v twos as well uh and we will probably be proposing a a a marketing proposal or maybe a development proposal shortly uh to hire that artist to work on sort of a next version of the website uh which they've been doing and we want to continue to have them doing in a more efficient you know more full-time capacity and then additionally as well hopefully funding their work on the being ftv2s through another proposal so that's a little bit about what's going on uh wendy what's up nice to have you here hey thanks for having me just got a quick question about your oracle situation uh have you ever looked into using your chain link oracle considering what happened to maker and compound and bzx with their exploits well there there's there's a lot to be said about chain link the short answer is over time as beanstalk moves across chains there may need to be a need to leverage chain link but at this stage of the game the fact that beanstalk is native to ethereum and is able to construct an ethereum native price oracle means that there's no need to add chain link in the middle and in the case of chain link your specific oracle is only as decentralized as uh the number of nodes that are supplying data on your on your data point and in the case of the beanstalk price oracle at this point in time it's much more decentralized just to query the bean price from the decentralized exchanges on ethereum where beans trade but um over time as we move to a cross chain uh implementation uh you know we may need to start to leverage channeling but it's it's much less decentralized than just doing things uh you know directly through ethereum certainly yeah awesome so no chance of flashlight attacks with this one well there's a couple things to keep in mind here one is the there's a couple different flash loan attacks any flash loan that happens over the course of one block uh or even two blocks for three blocks is not going to have a meaningful effect on the t-wop price and specifically the bean bean supply and soil supply has changed every season based on the t-wop bean price each season and it's very difficult to manipulate the uniswap v2 t-wap through a flashlight attack in general and uh other thing to note is as protocols start to integrate beans into their protocol that is actually a different question and one thing that we might want to consider doing is through a bip adding a couple of different uh bean price oracles sort of native to the beanstalk contract so that other protocols can query the pin price in the most decentralized way where uh even a flashlight that drives the price of one being up to ten or a hundred dollars one block a doesn't expose other lending protocols so uh ultimately those would be issues with the lending protocol but the way to ensure that they integrate beans in a way that is resistant to those types of attacks can be facilitated by being stock adding sort of integration friendly oracles which is something we're actively thinking about and working on internally and thinking about what are sort of the best oracles we want to promote other people to use for various use cases so one reason why the current beanstalk price oracle isn't sufficient is it calculates a tea for each season and so at the very beginning of each season right after the sunrise function is called uh if a lending protocol is valuing the price of beans based on the seas and t-wap well the season t-up is highly manipulable at the very beginning of the season which doesn't affect beanstalk anyway because it uses the t-wop over a full season but could affect a protocol that was using the season t-wop in real time so these are real things that need to be considered and we're certainly actively considering them and working on uh you know not necessarily fixes but more solutions to these uh issues that are very natural to to d5 but they're top of mind and uh they become more complex as stock and seeds become liquid but all of that is you know all of that is going to be handled and figured out in due time but this is one of the reasons why it's important that there's a lot of time energy and resources spent on developing beanstalk because there's a lot of work to be done on this front awesome thanks so much for that glad to be hanging around glad to have you here just use a pen welcome to welcome to welcome to class and maybe you'll be our last question since we've already run a little over an hour yes and apologies for coming late um i just wanted to because when i had brought up earlier in the day the salon implementation a number of people had different kind of thoughts on that in kind of different forms that i'm in and i just figured since we were already talking about it and if you had any thoughts that you could share and if you already talked about it in this classroom don't feel the need to rehash it because of me no it's no problem and we haven't uh spoken about a salon integration so for a context i just use a pen hit us up today and from your question it seems like we're we're also chatting in in in the chat about this uh which i guess we missed uh but the chatter in the question was about have we considered a solana integration so in order to answer this first we have to kind of put this in the context of our thoughts on a layer 2 uh integration and cross chain integrations so we've been thinking about how to add beanstalk contracts on other chains and layer 2 chains that are not competitive to the main bean stock and instead are able to leverage the current credit history of beanstalk in order to have the same stability the original beanstalk and beans on the main chain and a couple of economic principles that will facilitate that are that the beans are fungible across chains so one being on one chain is the same or can be exchanged for one being on another chain and uh that rule in and of itself uh effectively creates an arbitrage opportunity where now the value of one being on any chain is ultimately dependent on the credit of the main chain and the way that it being stock will work on multiple chains is that you can deposit assets on into the silo on any chain and you can sell assets in the field on any chain but the weather and the interest rate paid out to stock uh are going to be constant across different chains and so on the one hand that becomes a very economically compelling solution that is scalable to l2 is scalable across other chains um but the complexity that comes with that is you do need to have decentralized bridges that allow you to go back and forth between uh different chains and have the various beanstalk contracts on different chains speak to one another and that is not trivial to do and it's certainly not trivial to do across multiple chains so it is going to require a significant development effort to make that happen but in general it seems like the economics of l2 are more or less figured out and the main hold up at this point in time is really just resources and developers to actively kind of start building bridges that are necessary to facilitate that and do you think solana is like a good first option to go after or have you had other other thoughts on that well salon is a great option mainly because it's a very different pool of capital than aetherium and i think you could make a compelling argument that if pinstock and become the leading albos stablecoin on ethereum and solana it's very well poised to also become the leading algo on any other blockchain that sort of takes takes a lot of user adoption or has a lot of use for adoption in the future which is very exciting but at the same time solana is particularly complex uh because you can't compile the solidity code for solana and basically it would it's not trivial to implement beanstalk and rust and it would require a significant development effort and so this is something that will definitely be working on in the future and as being stuck grows uh but it's definitely not the easiest uh layer two or cross chain integration because it's uh not so simple to do to do it in to to do bean stock or to implement bean stuff on solana at this point got it thank you so much for uh addressing that here and uh yeah we'll talk more about it our pleasure so maybe uh if there's any lingering uh quick questions uh we'll take one or two more if people have them that are urgent uh or otherwise we will encourage everyone to uh we have one more question and that'll close us out and then we encourage everyone to come to the dow meeting uh that's basically two days from now so aj aj cool yeah it's close it's pickle um cool yeah it's not a real name it's anyway um have you written so you talked a little bit about um your kind of your vision for what the market cycles might look like and and like you talked about the leveraging and then you also talked extensively tonight about uh i think it was called and this is new to me a flash loan problem and um you know if you've written about those things in any blog post or if there's any other resources where you've sort of either outlined your vision or talked about this pressing pressing issue that being stock faces i would be totally into reading about them um or if you know if there's other sources that are good to read about that'd be cool and i mean obviously that question is for anybody who is knowledgeable about those subjects but yeah just great question we would just use this opportunity to highlight at this point in time there's not any immediate vulnerabilities to be in stock certainly like that's just on the on the flash one side of fact because the there's no lending protocols that currently have beans so the mechanics of a flashlight attacker that someone can borrow a large amount of assets from a lending protocol and as long as they return the same amount within within the same transaction they can do whatever they want with them because beans are not on any lending protocols today there's nothing to worry about on that front but in general beanstalk is already resistant to those types of attacks uh the concern would be protocols that integrate a bad oracle on top of being stock um that might have issues um but definitely important to keep in mind and that is top of mind on our end and read more reading materials there's a ton of uh helpful links in the start here channel and i believe being merchant has been putting together some sort of faq or something somewhere so maybe uh he can direct people to that as well at some point uh but there's lots of materials and we're having weekly discussions like this so people can continue to learn about how the system works um so this is uh this has been an immensely successful class glad to have more people hanging up hanging out in the speaking room and participating it's very exciting to see such a thoughtful curious intelligent community sprouting around beanstalk and everyone who wants to get involved definitely come hang out in the beanstalk farms category in general dower your skill sets and skill set volunteer and we're just getting started so this is all very exciting thank you everyone for coming and we'll talk to hopefully some of you on thursday for the dow meeting and otherwise hopefully we'll see everybody next week for class