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Beanstalk University Class #19

Date
April 5, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Intro • 1:50 A parameter on the BEAN:3CRV pool • 10:45 More on adjusting the A parameter • 14:35 Thoughts on integrations with other stable swap pools • 19:45 Wen BeaNFT Spring Collection? • 20:12 Tradeoffs of longer or shorter Seasons • 26:45 APWine suggestion • 30:36 Wen generalized minting • 37:45 Omniscia retainer commentary • 43:45 Timeline for the new website • 54:35 Generalized Bean Farm gas efficiency • 1:00:15 Audit results • 1:02:25 Seignorage in the Silo • 1:04:18 Rari pool suggestion • 1:06:32 Thoughts on this growth cycle vs. the last • 1:09:20 What is Convert? • 1:11:55 More on generalized minting • 1:16:55 Potential attack vectors on the TWAP • 1:19:38 Where does the Silo APY come from? • 1:24:30 TraderDAO suggestion • 1:28:55 Additional Silo whitelists • 1:32:10 More on generalized minting • 1:34:47 Fungible Silo deposits • 1:35:42 Questions about Pods vs Beans • 1:41:08 Why is Beanstalk not a ponzi? • 1:48:06 When will IRL Bean Farmers accept Beans?
Type
Beanstalk University

Recordings

Notes

What is the A(amplification) parameter in a Curve pool?

  • The Curve pool uses a combination of 2 different pricing formulas
    1. Constant product price invariant. You take the amount of reserves in one pool multiplied by the amount of reserves in other, which multiply to a K parameter. So when you trade in the pool, K is kept constant, so taking out one assets means increasing the other to keep K constant.
    2. Constant price model — what you would get if you kept a steady peg across both assets. This is x+y=K. If you take 1 out of one, you take 1 out of the other
  • In an ideal world with stablecoins we would want to use the second formula, given the steady peg (constant price). However, x+y=k has low supply/liquidity
  • So Curve uses both of these formulas — the closer to peg, the more they lean on the 2nd formula, the further, the more they lean on the 1st
  • The A parameter tunes how much the price should focus on one of these 2 formulas. The higher the A, the more it will rely around the 2nd (the constant price)
  • By increasing A, you can have more concentrated liquidity around the peg, but it runs out of liquidity more because its concentrated

Why was the A on the curve Bean:3crv pool set to 10?

  • This is Curve's recommended level for "uncollateralized algorithmic stablecoins". Given this was Beanstalk's first Curve pool (and Bean's price was much less stable when it was deployed), we felt it was safest to go with their recommendation

Do you see any benefit/downside to increasing it/ramping it up at any point? / Would there be any requirement in liquidity for us to increase it?

  • We would love to ramp it up. However, changing A after deployment requires a Curve DAO vote (15% quorum) and we don't have enough context of Curve's criteria for ramping up A. The focus is on the gauge proposal for now. Once that is passed and the Bean:3Crv pool has some more liquidity (maybe ~$20 million is a good target), we will definitely revisit this.

On the contrary why was the A on the curve Bean:LUSD pool set to 100? Why the difference?

  • To put it simply, we felt the A of 10 in the Bean:3Crv just wasn't high enough. Between the Bean:3Crv pool and the Bean:Eth pool, Bean has plenty of liquidity diversity across all price ranges. What we felt Bean was lacking is concentrated liquidity, especially given how stable the Bean price has become. Thus, we deployed the Bean:LUSD pool with A = 100.

Have you considered doing a migration to a pool with a higher A parameter? Higher A would provide safety for larger investors in the case of a panicked exit.

  • Generalized minting and convert makes doing the migration much simpler, and we would explore doing this once generalized minting and convert is out
  • One idea to increase liquidity in the Silo — integrate with collateralized lending platforms like Abracadabra to boostrap liquidity really quickly and spike demand (this happened with Anchor). Thought is to let people to take CVX/3CRV BEAN tokens and deposit something like Abracadabra and then allow these people to, through a platform like Abracadabra, deposit into the silo and issue a stablecoin against the silo deposit (essentially looping it). This would generate a ton of liquidity overnight. Have we thought about that?
    • This requires some sort of semi-fungibility on the deposit front, which is being worked on, but until then we can’t do this
    • Other issue is that we would need someone to be willing to issue stablecoin against BEAN as collateral
      • But currently people are using Memo and TIME and doge type stuff as collateral, so shouldn’t be that much of an issue
    • Totally agree this would be a high leverage thing to do to increase liquidity, should discuss this deeper

“In terms of using leverage to eventually increase growth of speed. One possibility is ApWine. This has the advantage of not involving liquidation risk. And my impression is that Bean's would best benefit from leverage without liquidation cascades. There would be a need to provide liquidity to the fyt(future yield tokens) <> bean (or bean pod) pair.” The way it would work is to deposit principle tokens (e.g. bean or pods) and they would in exchange give you a representative token for what would be future yields.

  • interesting, we will definitely do some more research on it

wen BeaNFT Spring Collection?’

  • JWW is working very hard on this, still considering what the timing will be but trying to make it happen

What would the tradeoffs of longer or shorter seasons be?

  • Why 1 hr? from a UX perspective, the longer epics from ESD seemed too long and there was too much anticipation there and it was inefficient. DSD had 30min and it felt too fast given the market wasn’t efficient enough to adjust so quickly
    • So 1 hr felt like a sweet spot, but it was more art than science
  • We don’t think we are in a place to change the season length yet
  • The tradeoffs are:
    • Shorter season allows Beanstalk to respond a little faster, but doesn’t allow the market as much time to settle. Also shorter seasons would cause more sunrises which causes more cost for Beanstalk to reward sunrise function calls (right now it’s about $100 per season).
    • Longer season is cheaper for the system and allows for more time for market to settle, but we feel an hour is long enough

Does season length expose the protocol to any type of manipulaton?

  • None that come to mind
  • But a shorter season would mean its cheaper to manipulate the pool if the pool is using a time-weighted average price
    • This also is why 1 hr was determined to be a good season length to settle on

Now that Omniscia audit is complete, when will we deploy generalized minting and convert?

  • Generalized minting and convert is the very next focus. We are working hard on it, and it is top priority. Soon.
  • Going from pool to pool in an efficient way will take more development work, but the traditional convert that exists right now (e.g. Beans to Bean:ETH LP via adding additional ETH, or Deposited Beans to Bean:ETH via BIP-7 mechanism) is easier
  • We are prioritizing safety/getting it right a bit higher than speed right now because it’s very important

What is Omniscia going to work on going forward? the last fundraiser was $250k for future work. is the plan to still use them or are we going to use other auditors as the protocol gets bigger and requires faster audits?

  • We will ask Omniscia for a quote to audit everything up to BIP-16 and see what the quote is and go from there
  • TrailofBits will audit us in a few months time too
  • If there are any other high quality audit firms people have connections to, intros would be appreciated!

What is timeline for new website?

  • There are open questions around brand to be answered first to help us scale to tens of thousands of users and beyond (e.g. the farming metaphors may strike institutional investors as unprofessional)
  • We need to answer those open questions first before we deploy the new website, but we are working very hard there
  • 2 buckets of work:
    • Current website improvements
    • Brand strategy:
      • Who is Beanstalk’s target audience in the long term and what is the best brand to capture them?
      • User research will be underway soon
      • What kind of message do we want to convey?

In a world where the generalized bean farm is live, imagine two scenarios: (1) I swap ETH for BEAN outside of Beanstalk (2) I swap ETH for BEAN all while wrapped in the farm Is (2) more gas efficient than (1)? Or is the "gas efficient" value prop of the generalized bean farm primarily the ability to compose txns together like the Liquity example in the roadmap article?:

For example, if a Farmer has ETH on the Bean Farm or in their wallet, they could deposit into a Liquity trove, mint LUSD against their ETH, trade that LUSD to Beans and Sow the Beans for Pods or Deposit them in the Silo, all in a single gas-efficient transaction.
  • Likely the straight to Uniswap DEX swap would be cheaper
  • But there are some special cases that could make swap within Beanstalk cheaper
    • If you were to trade Wrapped ETH to Beans through Uniswap you would have to approve Uniswap to approve the Wrapped ETH
    • If you were to go directly from ETH then you would have to transfer the ETH to Uniswap contract, which would then send it to the wETH contract and give you wETH which is an added gas cost
    • In the generalized Bean farm trading wETH in the farm to Beans wrapped on the farm would require no approvals and no transfers to ETH and so that would make it cheaper
    • If Beanstalk already holds wETH and wrapped Beans this could be cheaper too because in Solidity, changing a nonzero value to a nonzero value is 10x cheaper than changing a zero value to a nonzero value
    • The "gas efficient" value prop of the generalized bean farm is indeed primarily the ability to compose txns like in the Liquity example listed above

“Congrats on successful audit - looks like there were some major vulnerabilities that were caught and fixed - if we were to explain these to our moms or other potential investors, how would we do so?”

  • The mom answer is, we got basically perfect marks

“If I invest in the Bean pool or the Bean:3CRV pool, I'll be paid in Stalk and Seeds. These tokens can't be swapped currently for bean? How could I cash out eventually?”

  • 2 ways to make money here:
    • Stalk entitles you to Bean seigniorage , and when you earn seigniorage that seigniorage is yours forever
    • The hope is to make Stalk liquid in the near future so you can sell the stalk too

“Maybe having a lending silo where users deposit into it and that gets redeployed onto a rari pool or something. Perhaps with a time delay to make the pools more stable. It could then still earn some extra beans while getting extra boosts from the lending markets”

  • This is certainly possible, but longer term
    • in longer term we can make anything in the silo borrow-able against via something like Rari

“This current cycle looks different- if you look at the last growth cycle it really only lasted 11 days, and nearly doubled the supply. While this current cycle is much more gradual growth. Is this more gradual growth happening for any particular reason? and in your opinion is this better, worse, or neutral?”

  • It’s all about BIP-7. BIP-7 was not live during the previous growth cycle. BIP-7 allows Silo Members to Convert Deposited Beans to Deposited LP Tokens when P >1
  • BIP-7 allows people to access growth when there is excess demand for Bean
  • You can see the amount of deposited beans go down and down because they are being converted via the BIP-7 convert
  • image
  • This is facilitating growth of Bean supply and liquidity with less upside volatility which is better long term (you probably won’t see Bean go all the way up to 1.4 like it did last growth cycle)

What is “convert”?

  • We have 2 types of convert right now:
    1. Convert Bean to ETH:Bean LP by adding additional ETH. Matching your beans with ETH
    2. BIP-7 type
      1. Allow Silo Members to Convert Deposited Beans to Deposited LP Tokens when P >1 (without having to add additional ETH).
      2. Allow Silo Members to Convert Deposited LP Tokens to Deposited Beans when P <1, without any loss of Stalk.

“Is the protocol actually maintaining peg better right now because the 3CRV pool is not being referenced yet for minting?

  • Protocol is probably doing a worst job at strictly maintaining peg to $1 (not talking about minting, pod rate) because there are no converts available in the Bean:3CRV pool. So that Bean:3CRV pool is trading > $1 while the Bean:ETH Uniswap pool is constantly being converted back to $1 but then it’s immediately arbitraged by MEV bots to effectively sell in Curve and buy in Uniswap and so there’s a continuously excess demand in Uniswap but because of the excess in Curve and the inability to convert against Curve, the price of the Bean:ETH Uniswap pool tends to be >$1
  • If we were able to convert in the 3CRV pool, then you would imagine both pools would hold peg tighter to $1
    • The effect of that on minting is unclear

“Does this enable arbitrageurs and liquidity providers to reconcile the variance in Beans between the ETH and 3CRV pools?”

  • The answer is yes

“And would it make sense then to gradually add pools for consideration to the minting schedule as they are included in The Silo, and perhaps have a limit at some point on the number of pools that are referenced?”

  • Whatever is whitelisted in the silo is a separate decision from what is part of the minting schedule. Independent decision
  • Pools that are used for minting should be restricted to stablecoins or other strong prices sources for a dollar
    • Right now the only one really in sight is 3CRV minting
  • Not everything in the silo needs to be in the minting schedule

“Is there an attack vector of dumping in liquidity before a new season then pulling the liquidity”

  • Beanstalk doesn’t use a TWAP in the traditional sense, it uses “Time-Weighted-Average-Delta-Beans”, which means Beanstalk takes an average of the liquidity-weighted delta of beans that need to be bought or sold in the Bean:ETH Uniswap pool for the price to be returned to a $1 over the course of a season
  • This is more robust to this type of attack vector, given the delta Beans and the liquidity is taken into account over the course of the season

Where does the APY rate come from in the Silo?

  • The Bean APY is from newly minted beans, and beans are minted every time there is a time and liquidity-weighted average shortage of beans in the pool over the course of the past season (e.g. positive delta Beans). 50% of these newly minted beans go to Silo holders
  • So Bean APY is calculated based off of all the beans paid to Silo holders paid over the past 30 days
  • Stalk APY is reflective of the fact that you receive more stalk from seeds over time
  • LP APYs are higher than Bean APYs because you receive more seeds when you LP which produces more stalk which produce Bean seigniorage

TracerDAO has perpetual swap products where we could potentially use Beans as collateral there and get exposure to your choice of other assets. What do folks thing about that?

  • We will take a look

What are other no-brainers, in your opinion, for whitelisting next (similar to LUSD)? Any updates on partnership discussions or pools you are considering next?

  • Nothing is no brainer, but Bean:4CRV pool and Bean:FRAX and Bean:UST could be interesting

Does generalized minting only occur when all pools are above peg? Since generalized minting will result in more beans minted, will this also mean more soil supply in general to offset?

  • The generalized minting will function as a sum across all the pools, so as long as the sum of all pools has a shortage then it will mint
  • Very hard to predict whether this will lead to more or less minting
  • If there are more beans minted, then based on the way soil is calculated right now, it will also lead to more soil being issued
  • If we run out of deposited beans in the Silo to convert, then you can expect an increase in beans minted because there would be no more conversions to bring the price back down once its above $1
  • Is it possible to make Silo deposits themselves liquid within the Silo? I.e I can exit my Silo position by selling it to an interested buyer, grown stalk included. No liquidity has left the Silo, just traded hands.
    • Yes, achieving this is a goal of ours

Why don’t people redeem pod for bean?

  • Pods cannot be redeemed for beans until they become harvestable
  • Pods can be bought and sold in the pod marketplace too
  • Announcement: Octocave AMA in gather.town at 5:30pm PT on 4/13

Why is beanstalk and beans not a ponzi?

  • Lenders are not lending to Beanstalk under the assumption they will get paid off because of more lending to Beanstalk in the future. This is both unsustainable and the definition of a ponzi scheme.
  • By attracting lenders Beanstalk is able to create utility (in the form of Bean stability). It is the utility created by the lenders that attracts a) new use cases for Beans, b) new users of Beans and c) new Silo Depositors. New demand for using Beans is what ultimately leads to Pods being harvested.
  • This is not a ponzi, but a collective effort to create utility
  • Beanstalk is able to mint its own currency too, which means it can pay early adopters without taking the money of future adopters, which is the definition of the ponzi\

Transcript

i may have said this before in front of this group but um i had an ex-girlfriend tell me that i sounded like a particular comedian when i was in college and it wasn't flattering so i'm always appreciative of the positive feedback all right thank you to bean okay we're at a couple minutes after so i think we will get rolling here excuse me so to for kick things off actually we're talking about the dog pfp i want to give away some quick merch and i'm going to give it to so this dog pfp some of you may recognize it it is a character from a very particular anime and what i'm looking for is not the name of the dog because it's almost too easy there's a particular song for the outro of this anime and anybody who can drop the name of that song in the class discussion i will give some swag out too just want to throw that out there to the crowd so with that how's it going dumpling and publius and publius good pretty good i'm gonna answer it like publius does sometimes and say uh insert peg so it's a good day right all right so i was looking through the um the discussion channel before and i mean so again i'm always going to pronounce name wrong names wrong so i'm going to i'm going to pronounce this deckers had a couple questions um that kind of started up yesterday and ended up being a really good conversation uh published you want to walk through i'm not going to you know repeat all the questions but you want to walk through some of the the items that were talked through in this conversation between you and deckers i i mean i think for for for those who just listen uh and don't have access to the class discussion it might be helpful to repeat the questions so we'll repeat them and then try to answer them a little bit wonderful um so the first question was why was the a on the b and three curve pool originally set to 10. uh the short answer is that is curves recommended level for on their website when you're deploying it they have uh like three samples they have 10 100 200 uh 10 is what they recommend for uncollateralized algorithmic stable coins uh which i mean to be honest in the grand scheme of things you know we probably could have started with an even higher a at this point we would certainly make an argument pool could handle a higher a but nonetheless um you know we felt like we should just follow their advice now their next question was do we see any benefit to ramping it up uh would there be any requirements and liquidity for us to increase it uh not exactly sure what curves in their community or their dows uh typical uh typical standards are um you know but in short it would require a vote on their end to increase the parameter therefore you know while we'd like to do that uh it would it would require a little bit of a an effort on our part given the lack of success at least over the past day on the the curve gauge proposal think uh being stopped farms we need to do a little bit more work uh figuring out curve governance and getting stuff moved along there before we were able to move up the a parameter but uh in our opinion there's no real reason not to and then the third question they asked was uh why did we deploy the being lust pool with an a parameter of a hundred instead of ten well uh in short given that we feel like the a parameter for the b three curve ball could be higher uh there's friction on getting it higher we wanted to just start to be an l usd pool a little bit higher uh and given that the bean price has been particularly stable around the dollar we felt that was appropriate um and then furthermore if you consider that uh lusd typically trades above a dollar a little bit um or or trades disproportionately uh if you look at the liquidity pools and curve that they're in we felt like having a higher a parameter would benefit both being stock and l usd holders who are going to hopefully add lusd to the pool in the not too distant future so and uh brian followed up with some great context surrounding what criteria curve seems to use when evaluating whether in a parameter should be raised and shared some simulation software that seems to perform perform some analytics at different levels of a parameters so a little call to action to you know the analysts out there tv iq whoever else if they were to kind of reproduce this simulation on the beam three curve pool you know think the community would totally appreciate that and we'd be able to leverage that data a lot to potentially make a case to raise the a parameter if that's something people are interested in hadn't hadn't had a chance to review that data that's uh looking at it now that looks pretty cool so my friend doesn't really understand the concept of an amplification parameter could could someone could publish could you explain that for my friend so the curve pool uses a combination of two different pricing formulas the first is a constant product price invariant which is similar to what uniswap uses you take the multiple multiple of the number of reserves in both pool and that gives you a variable they called k which when you trade in the pool k is kept constant so the amount of asset you take out when you put one asset in is equal to the k you know you keep constant decay parameter [Music] the other model is a constant supply model which is what you would get if you kept a steady peg between two assets x plus y equals k so if you take one out of one you take one out of the other now in an ideal world with stable coins we want to use the second formula because it's a constant product or it's a constant price however the supply x plus y of liquidity is extremely low so what curve does is they take a combination of both these price formulas and the closer they pack the prices the more they lean on the constant price formula and they're further from peg the more they lean on the constant product formula the a parameter is a way to tune how much the price should kind of focus on one of the two formulas or weight more heavy in terms of the price so the higher the a value the more the price relies on the constant price formula over the constant product formula and thus by turning up the egg you can have more concentrated liquidity around the peg because it relies more on the constant price formula however the problem here is it runs out of liquidity faster because we're concentrating the liquidity more so those are kind of the trade-offs you should think about as we consider whether to raise the a parameter that was a really good explanation i uh i really appreciate that my friend my friend really really appreciates that well you appreciate it on behalf of your friends you're that type of guy that's what i will do i'll appreciate it on their behalf okay um anything else anything else you want to cover in terms of that conversation breen yeah dropped a bunch of really good information into the chat as well shout out to breen um dekker's thanks the group anything else to add before we kind of pivot onto the next item just uh go vote on the curve gauge proposal if if you are able to or if you have friends that are able to you should definitely harass them to do that now that my friend understands amplification factor i'll tell just time to go my guess is your friend who has the curve for convex vote understands the amplification parameter that's maybe maybe just very fast that is very fair very fair um all right before i jump to blc who i see is next in the chat kit quartz has their hand up kid you want to hop up on stage see if i can it's usually where our system falls apart and i try to bring them up and i don't have any luck we just invited you up headquarters there we go go ahead you're muted uh sir now you're unmuted we just can't hear you we lost kid quartz um feel f actually looks like they jumped from the meeting so maybe they're kind of restarting their system um i'll give the shout out oh all right how about that yeah you're good go ahead um yeah i was actually talking earlier today with someone about the application coefficient and it just seems like it would provide a lot of safety for larger investors in the case of a panic exit work at least shore up confidence obviously concentrating liquidity there always runs a risk of eating through all the three curve but rather than try and submit a new curve proposal to adjust the existing factory pool have you guys considered just doing a migration yes uh in fact uh this is something that i think will go we think will likely go hand at hand or be very much complimented by generalized minting and generalized convert uh having generalized convert makes doing the migration much simpler and having generalized minting allows beanstalk to respond to the delta in the pool without having to have volatility in the bean price itself if that makes sense so uh as we get generalized minting and convert uh shout out harry smith i'm sure we'll get to that question in a second um but that will be something that i think makes a lot more sense for for beanstalk to do and make a migration potentially easier okay yeah i just i don't know i think that uh retail and even vcs and the like or investors that i've talked to about it um love seeing that concentrated liquidity and part of it is maybe not understanding exactly how it works but that was my question so excited for that migration yeah and just to complement that but also just note that uh over the past couple weeks the liquidity as a percentage of the bean supply has started to increase dramatically it's now over like a third of the total beans or something like that and so uh in short uh having a large amount of that liquidity in a curve pool uh with a high a parameter is obviously a very strong statement about peg maintenance yeah of course i think that um well the increase in liquidity is like gotta be sort of a byproduct of they're not being paused to so well it's hard to know exactly how the flywheel inspires the additional liquidity in the silo but uh yeah super exciting cool i'll jump out of here yeah in practice just to comment on that what we've noticed and it's not to say how this will work in practice it certainly seems like the excess demand for soil then went to the question well where out what else can we do and at that point the silo became something people were interested in now as people start to understand being stuck more there may be more interest in the silo even during shorter or long-term dead cycles because of the ability to accrue stock but um at least in this cycle it seems like it was led by excess demand for soil and if we backtrack a little bit from there it does seem like the excess demand for soil was kind of led by the development of the pod marketplace and the liquidity or pods themselves so just uh yeah we'll welcome you back up here to chat about this but um definitely very interesting questions yeah it's always it's uh it's interesting to hear that that is the cause and effect in this instance i guess this is not um related to the amplification coefficient as much as it is increasing liquidity in the silo have you guys thought about integrating with some of the uh you know collateralized lending platforms like abracadabra um if you just wanted to bootstrap liquidity super quickly i mean i think everyone saw what it did with anchor and it seems like you would spike demand so much it could probably get you out of the current debt cycle yeah so the short answer is uh the goal is to deploy a variety of different stable swap pools over the coming weeks and months um there is something to be said for not overdoing it until you have some sort of convert live um you know we've we've already started to say yeah you have like a million x's on curve and it takes a couple hours for the system to deleverage from there and the you know don't want to rush it and have like a ton of different pools all launching back to back while we're still early stage but agree that that's like a high high priority oh i'm sorry what i mean is like letting people take like you know suppose the gauge gets put in the convex proposal goes well and taking their cvx three curve beam tokens you know depositing something like abracadabra and allowing people to through a platform like that which is just going to deposit the silo and issue a stable coin against it you know essentially just loop it so that you could have you know you'd generate a ton of liquidity overnight right um because like ust anchor right all that demand and anchor comes from not all of it but like a couple billion and a half of it is just ust on eth in abracadabra deposited in anchor borrowed against and then redeposited and so like some sort of looping mechanism would just create tons of liquidity overnight is is that that that requires uh some sort of semi-fungibility on the deposited front which is being worked on at the moment uh but you know until that's live it's not really possible to have that sort of uh lending or uh rolling over because of like the crates or something although i'm talking i'll hop out of here no this is great this is this is a really great discussion this is fabulous like we love these questions um go ahead publish i mean well there is a way you know with the deposit mechanism right we could just transfer deposits you know of the same c's and other input from the ui um i think the main problem is we would need someone willing to issue a stable coin against venus collateral right but i mean like the liquidation mechanisms on a lot of these platforms are like sufficiently sophisticated if they're willing to issue them against like spell or you know time or memories or any of these doshiba like if you have really good liquidation mechanisms um i don't know just it just seems like an easy next step if we can get to the convex integration to say hey you want to take this from like you know maybe at that point 50 million dollars of liquidity to a billion overnight and make everyone get paid on their pods introduce leverage into the system and let people borrow against their silo positions um is one thought i've had for how you could really increase liquidity overnight um would you recommend abracadabra for this or what other protocols would you recommend me consider i was talking to well there's some on solana that are being developed we couldn't agree that this is like an incredibly high leverage i couldn't agree more i would say um so this is just at the moment and you know over the past couple weeks there really has been an increase in legitimacy of being stock it feels like and so maybe it is an opportunity to start different conversations but thus far there hasn't seemed to be that much interest in uh what you're discussing from other protocols but maybe the time is uh the time is now so if you have any thoughts uh definitely happy to chat uh later about this yeah yeah for sure i don't want to take up too much of the time here but it just it just feels like that's a natural progression um anyway i'll hop off we could do this all day this is awesome and you feel free to hang out up here too there's no reason to hop down yeah absolutely yeah in kid quartz i'll say two things first of all you know this this form is built for really good questions and discussion so never you know no need to apologize for that the other thing i'll say quickly is big shout out and thank you for the great twitter thread about being recently too oh yeah i'm glad you read it hope people liked yeah yeah a lot of lot of really good thoughts a lot of really good traction on that platform so big thanks there and yeah feel free to hang out up here or whatever you like yeah cheers i'll i'll hop down but uh thank you guys all right next question on the list is from blc and uh the heart of his question is win dnft spring collection i'll actually take that so we got a lot on jdb's plate right now he's working like a mad bean he's gonna say like a mad man but he's mad bean um that is on the list and so we are we're considering that now and thinking about what the timing might be and um we're gonna try to make it happen by golly so all right next so um austin writes what we what would be the trade-offs of longer or shorter seasons and he quotes the road map a little bit um i won't quote the road map but we'll i'll throw the question so it's kind of a theoretical question uh which has no answer per se or certainly is much better answered with market data and the market data on like the optimal season time and the grand scheme of things is going to change dramatically as being stock scales and settles down and stabilizes and so ultimately what the season time should be it you know in the grand scheme of things is unclear um to start with why why an hour um just from a ux perspective uh it really felt like uh you know having kind of experienced esd and dsd that uh the longer epics three times a day it was just too long and there was too much anticipation uh leading up to it and that was it was very clearly inefficient and from a user experience perspective it felt awkward um and then dst was faster than esd and we thought about 30 minutes but it felt like 30 minutes was a little bit too fast and particularly given that the market certainly wasn't that efficient when it launched and still isn't particularly efficient although in the field it has started to be um you know it it it seemed like an hour was kind of the sweet spot but it was much more art than science in the grand scheme of things to date where it originally came from now to think about what when would be an appropriate time to change it uh you know we're nowhere close to that in our opinion and there's no necessarily reason to change it um now with regards to the specific question austin asked uh hold on i'm trying to find the question about manipulation yeah well it was no that was a different question i believe oh okay um the trade-offs of a longer or shorter so yeah uh so a shorter season allows beanstalk to respond to the delta a little bit faster but on the other hand it doesn't allow the market as much time to settle and particularly given that most of the interactions with beanstalk are still not automated again with like some of the exception being in the field it seems um in the sunrise function call um you know don't really think that it makes sense to have things speed up if the system became like truly autonomous there's an argument to be made to like if everything's being done by robots you can increase the time but also if you increase the time there's an increase in cost and one of the things that we did take into account was the sunrise cost of at least around a hundred dollars and so that is twenty four hundred dollars a day minimum that the system is paying just to maintain itself and so in the grand scheme of things well twenty four hundred dollars a day it's pretty minimal upkeep cost for like a a whole bank or a whole monetary system uh it is a tax on the system and the the more you increase the sun rises the more you increase the that tax on the system uh so that was something we also wanted to minimize particularly when the system was younger and you know frankly when there was so many like sunrises being worn by just like straight robots that would then dump all the beans when there was very little liquidity it was one of those things where it was like maybe we were too aggressive and the season was too too short um so the argument for a longer season is that it's cheaper for the system and that it does allow for more time for the market to settle although an hour is enough time for people to take action usually so that's why we felt like an hour was also long enough um a little bit of a hodgepodge answer there but hopefully that was thorough and i was a little bit ahead of myself so austin's question about manipulation is actually a little bit lower um i want to touch on that just quickly is it is that that seasonal length does that expose the protocol to any type of manipulation in particular uh nothing like immediate comes to mind if you had like a one block season the shorter the the seasons in in practice the cheaper the manipulation cost because if beanstalk is using some sort of time weighted average uh to figure out the delta in the pool if you want to manipulate the beam mint uh the shorter the the shorter the season the cheaper the price to actually manipulate the pool so one thing that might make sense to go hand in hand with making the seas let's say the seasons went down to 30 minutes you would probably want to introduce some sort of coefficient on the delta b calculation because if you have a delta b this may not be the case ultimately would require some real modeling and thought to to decide but if you're going to start minting based on delta b more frequently you don't necessarily want to mint the same ratio based on delta b per se and so an hour really was in a more earth than science way like the healthy middle ground where it felt like it was sufficiently manipulation resistant the cost to impact the tu off was pretty significant over the course of an hour and so it's like if you're going to buy and or or sell and affect the price for an hour that can you know that at some point an hour is real price discovery right okay and so up on stage we've got chulu i'm another name i'm going to pronounce wrong but go ahead you have a question no i i ended up adding the question into the chat all right but feel free to verbalize it yeah go ahead well i was just going to make a comment that if you were interested in trying to use the leverage to speed up growth of bean then one possibility could be ap wine because then there wouldn't be liquidation risk and that's a really nice thing when you consider sort of what happened with own price action from last october until basically now but the downside is i think that the bean protocol would need to supply liquidity for uh a liquidity pool of future yield tokens versus bean but i'm guessing that would be pretty simple to do if that was something you wanted to do where did you post this yeah i'm looking too did you post this in the class discussion can you explain that a little more what we would have to create a pool against uh yeah so the the general model they use to have it work is you deposit sort of principal tokens say bean or bean pods and in exchange for that they give you a representative token for what would be future yield so with the bean model the easiest way to make it work might be to use bean pods from the marketplace because in in a way those have anticipated future yields which is sort of the beans when it arrives at harvest and then so you would say turn in the bean pods as you're waiting for them to be for the the field to move up the market line to move up until they're harvestable and you might get paid out beans at a lower rate earlier on and so that would lead to speculation of people borrowing against future yield to buy more beans mint more bean pods etc so how would this compare to like a fiat dao scenario i actually wouldn't be able to answer answer that question because i i don't know how fiat that works sorry that was actually kind of for publish and publish i'm sorry i cut you off i i heard you start to talk just as i did go ahead yeah i mean quite frankly rex you know we need to do some more research and reading up on it to understand a little bit more about this ap one is that what it's called well you know so appreciate you bringing it up cthulhu and you know we'll do some due diligence on it thank you have a great day thank you and uh published thank you for pronouncing that correctly that's cthulhu is like a sea monster from science fiction right lots of lovecraft uh also love crafty and that's that's the word i was looking for love crafting okay and i've never actually heard that word pronounced so thank you both all right so next on the list actually cthulhu do you have anything else you want to cover cover while you're up here no that was it i'll step down now thank you so much no problem at all thanks for your question or your suggestion i should say okay next on the list we've got harry smith um knows this question has been asked a lot but now you want to come up here and ask us get on up here harry just for the meme no pressure all right he says he can't so you want to ask us the question rex oh so here's get it so okay yes i absolutely will so harry knows the questions have been asked a lot now uh but now the amnesia audit is complete when is j when generalized minting and generalize convert you you want to take this poo please or should i happy too um you know you compare where beanstalk is to a week ago you know before the audit was released before bip 14 and 15 were proposed you know we were in a much worse state and you know convert and generalize minting was a lot farther away now that you know a week later we have the audit finished we have that 1415 out and we'll hopefully have bib 16 up by the end of the night the next thing and you know that is planned to come out is generalized minting and convert you know most of that functionality is done and you know hopefully we'll just be able to get you know just wrap up the testing and but you know these things you know it's a lot of testing that needs to be done but you know know that it is the next focus and you know who knows how long it can take because it's it's a lot of work that needs to go into it but you know we're working our best and you know hopefully soon [Music] so a non-answer from pooples um you know would would just uh also comment and this is maybe a separate note not about the due date although hopefully this is on the order of weeks um you know dancing specifically you know harry it's like it's not gonna be one week but you know a couple weeks three four weeks uh you know the other thing to comment is the more we've been thinking about it convert and the potential convert functionality within the silo is likely to be broken up uh into uh into a couple different converts and one of the reasons is there's so many different types of converts we ultimately want to facilitate within the silo such that you know things can be pretty frictionless and efficient um but we also don't want to hold up rolling out generalized minting and generalize convert uh or the first version of it you know more than it needs to be and so the thought is the first version of convert will be what you can currently do uh for the uniswell pool there's the you know what we would refer to as the traditional convert which was live when beanstalk launched where you could take additional aetherium and take deposited beans and then convert your deposited beans into deposited lp with uh adding ethereum uh that's gonna be part of the initial generalization hopefully and then secondly the gen the convert that's introduced by bib seven that will also be live whenever minting and convert goes live where you'll be able to convert your deposited beans when the price is too high into deposited three curve and vice versa convert to positive three curve to deposited beads when the price is too low however going from like pool to pool in an efficient way that's you know it's just to do those types of different converts uh it's going to require more development work and so we're thinking that in order to expedite getting minting and convert live in the way that we've been discussing it we we at least you know we're probably gonna break it up into multiple dips great stuff candidly guys there's a lot of like work that just needs to get done so we're very excited for the opportunity to do it but the product that we're trying to build is something that a doesn't really exist at all in any capacity and b we really hate adding any sort of fees or frictions or any inefficiencies and so we're hesitant to roll out like crap um or sub opt even just sub-optimal stuff and so hoping that um you know hoping that that taking the time to do the do it right and get it right and as pooples was kind of reflecting like making sure that we test the out of it um you know that's that's the way we're planning on doing stuff and uh at this point there is a lot of value in bean stock and liquidity in beanstalk and uh money that people have in beanstalk and so uh it's now where things were you know six seven months ago where it's like we're pushing code uh and there's not that much money in the system uh and the system's unaudited at this point the code is audited or a lot of it is audited and so anytime we push new code we we really want to make sure that we're being incredibly careful and uh that goes with all bibs uh that are being worked on and we're very fortunate to now have a pretty cool diverse backend team that's working on a wide variety of different upgrades to the begin farm and transferable and semi-functional deposits and upgrades to the marketplace um but we've got to make sure that all of this is done uh to a really high quality standard and that's why things are not moving uh perhaps as fast as people would hope but we promise you that they're moving as fast as they can and you know this is this is this is really uh we recognize how how you know how how important it is that we get this right and so that's our focus i feel like there's a some saying in either business or in engineering that you know make your processes work as fast as possible but no faster so on that same note um so harry's got another question awesome just uh started interrupting rex no i shout out uh manny who joined the chat uh manny was uh chatting about being on twitter and we we kind of reached out to them and there's going to be a debate hopefully held uh with manny in the not too distant future so love having high quality discourse and uh welcome them to the class that they uh they're new to the discord so just excellent that's awesome yeah i saw some of that back and forth that's fantastic all right so harry had that a follow-up about omnisha so basically now that you know the initial audit's done uh we've got the retainer in place um what what's omnish's scope moving forward yeah that's a great question um well you know there there was so basically the 250 k uh that was the second pip to cover our mission was funded uh 50k of that was allocated towards completing the first audit because it the scope of it was extended um that's good harry you do only ask good questions we appreciate that um that's fun stuff so anyways um so there's 200k left uh in that budget now now that the initial initial audit is done uh we're inclined to basically ask them for a quote to audit everything through 16 let's call it and maybe even some of the other uh code that's being tested but not ready for production per se and see what they quote us on that um you know and when they can get that done um as you guys can probably tell the past month or so has really been dedicated towards like getting this initial amnesia audit out the door um and so we do want to be cognizant of like there's there's definitely a balance between continuing to just spend all of our time on audits and they will need to just go into their even do an audit of the new code as well um but the point is trail of bits is scheduled for june and with trail of bids they're a little bit they conduct things a little bit differently and we had to book time with them like six months in advance and the two weeks that they're initially auditing we booked four weeks of uh two engineers so eight engineer weeks um but the first two weeks which is what the initial audit is scheduled for um we're really gonna be that's gonna be our main focus for those two weeks like if they need anything or have any questions um really trying to just focus on that for the two weeks and then maybe a week after that and so recognizing that the question is well you know if amnesia sends us back a report uh in mid-may and now it's we're going to spend time finishing the initial audit then the trailer fits on it we're thinking maybe it makes sense given it's already april to just ask on nisha on their timing and for a quote and then reevaluate from there so don't really have a plan per se but um that now that that's done that's kind of top of mind and if anything we're kind of waiting internally to get bip 16 out and then figure out what what other code would we ask them to audit now uh to give us a quote um to continue the audit uh you know it's uh [Music] it's a little bit unclear but we just want to make sure that we're you know we're optimizing on a lot of different fronts here so we want to make sure we're doing the right thing perfect and that kind of hits just the the tail end of harry's question about other auditors i was gonna gonna ask you to give an update on trail bits that's perfect june timeline and we'll just comment you know not that we feel like audits are like the most valuable thing in the world as much as having the code out in the wild although phil omniscient did have a ton of value um at some point it's like how many audits do you need or how many auditors do you need who knows uh but very much feel like now that being stuff is a little bit bigger and more legitimate you know this is a good time to just issue another call out if there are other high quality audit first that people have connections to because if we don't have connections we've realized it's literally impossible to get an audit scheduled at all um so if people could help facilitate uh connections with high quality auditors at this point that might be a good time to revisit it we haven't done that in like six months since we set up the initial two audits so yeah that may be a good time to revisit more auditors but frankly trail of bits is like world class and we're very excited to have them audit the code in about two months time i remember when the the trailbits fundraiser razer was first proposed first of all i remember that it was funded in less than five minutes um the other thing i remember is i you know i i'm still relatively new to d5 and i thought oh i wonder who these you know who these folks are kind of did some reading on on trail bits and they they'd do like auto codes for like darpa i thought that's that's pretty damn impressive so um they literally said half of all of their engineers just work on the government stuff yeah that's that's they're real they're really real so that's cool and not to say omnisha is not real and they actually have a lot of expertise on the diamonds which was also very valuable the trail of bits is like you know they're a world-class firm so we're we feel very lucky that they're going to be auditing stuff soon yeah couldn't agree more and and agree not on this too all right scrolling down man there's tons of great stuff pouring in um so so actually so now i can say that bean profit was my friend who is asking why a means so we can we can both kind of hiding each other's faces [Laughter] that's my bean all right um ipo um asking about a timeline for the new website so it depends how you define new website so over the past week or so there's been a lot of internal discussion within pinstock farms on the brand and the visual identity of the site and whether to kind of move in the direction of the new logo on the purple or whether to stay with the green and the current logo and i think ultimately the the decision was made kind of in consensus to just take a step back on the like full rebrand per se but at the same time start to push more modular uh or maybe not modular but uh shorter smaller updates to the current website while rethinking a little bit that larger brand and the real question that it seems like uh maybe is deez here uh where's jelly bean here literally just looking for both of them pop up to just chat a little bit about this because they're not here at the moment you know there's a lot of open questions as to you know it seems like being stocks is at a place where it's attracting enough of a defy native audience where it will hopefully be able to de-leverage and scale um to the point where it is deleveraged pretty significantly but if we if we take a big step back and think about what beanstalk is trying to become uh an issue of money uh there is a lot of and it's very fair feedback that this farming theme and the whole vibe is a little bit too childish and uh not serious and it will be a turn off to larger more institutional investors and potentially not just institutional investors but you know what we really care about the farmers uh the the local farmers who are like you know is this something they can trust and so thinking about how do we scale this not just to like you know ten thousand or fifty thousand d5 users who just want yield and don't really care about whether things look professional or not as much um whether in the long term it makes sense to have a more official or it's it's very unclear what to do basically but that's that's the current problem and one thing that's nice to report is that there seems to be a really high degree of focus and high quality discourse happening and things are certainly moving in the right direction at the moment but uh no real sense on the timeline of the new website i think originally the plan was to push something this month but that's certainly been like totally next and now the focus is going to be more on short-term updates to the website to just improve ux uh in lots of different places and i'll i'll tag on first of all i will tag on by saying you're giving a huge shout out to the design team and the marketing team for the amount of work and discussion and honest feedback and really good uh input that's happened over the last few weeks have been a part of quite a few of these discussions as has publius and um there's just a lot of smart people wrestling with what we want what we want this organization to look like from an outward facing standpoint we spent so much time thinking about and working on the protocol and the underlying technical components and as we talk about what our outward face should be um there's there's been a lot of really good discussion a lot of honest conversation and and yeah i want to give a lot of credit out to to to dees to tv um to you know the other folks inside of both of those organizations both the design team the marketing team want to give a give big shout out to jay dubs on my team and yeah in fact um i think jelly bean and guava are both here um if i oh yes you wanted to hop up yeah either of you and just chat we just invited you up a little bit about uh some of the the thoughts on the brand and where you guys are at and why some of the decision to maybe not push anything new uh this month has been made and uh reconfig readjust a little bit um no pressure to come up here but if you want the you know the floor is yours as well that'd be great yep either or both hey everyone uh i think jellybean i think you have a pretty pretty good consensus about all this i i'll i'll chime in uh once once you get started unless you want me to start too then i'll be glad to um yeah i mean yeah i can start uh so i think as uh we mentioned earlier uh we recognized the need to kind of uh take a step back and really examine whether we needed to move forward with a rebrand um and so as a result of some conversations we decided to break uh the work out into two work streams so um current website improvements and then um doing a little bit more work on the brand strategy and um uh we had some really good conversations around um you know like so we're uh you know what are the business goals like what where is beanstalk right now and we were we started the rebrand project based on the hypothesis that a new brand will help us achieve our business goals of growth and you know more awareness and more conversion um but we uh are really trying to kind of dig into that a little bit more um like are we actually aligned on the business goals of being stuck right now um does our current brand actually uh help us achieve our business goals as it is um and you know who who is beanstalk's target audience um and i think we kind of figured out that it's a little bit different from who the early adopters are eventually when we do get you know we uh grow up being stuck we kind of um realized that the target audience might be a little bit different so we're trying to figure that um all of that out a little bit right now um we we're actually doing um some user research we're going to launch a survey and it's not completed yet because i do need to get some feedback from a couple of folks on what that survey uh what questions that has um but keep an eye out on um i i'm not really sure like what forum would actually be the best to kind of uh post a link um to that but anyway uh keep an eye out for um a survey link i would love to get your thoughts on um your perception of our brand and whether that is uh accurately reflecting what we want um what message we want to to convey um but yeah that's coming soon um just keep an eye out for that for um tonight or either um either tomorrow tomorrow or tonight um and then yeah happy to take any questions guava do you have anything to add to that i mean uh yeah just to like reiterate it's just um we just uh really took a step back to re um to kind of rekindle what we really want to accomplish with this new brand who the target audience is and it's a lot of push and pulls between what we want to adjust what we want to keep and everything so we are like internally we are internally at discussing and voting constantly uh throughout this week and um yeah that's pretty much it uh on design side yeah we took a step back i've been working a lot with tb on the marketing side where i've been trying to make a more consistent effort in the in the designs so that it actually does form like a more consistent brand and that's definitely one of the core values that i'm trying to push in the future but yeah pretty much what jelly said um look out for the survey coming up in the vote um and of course if you guys have any questions about design or if you guys really are interested or have any ideas like please um dm me dm jelly you know we we would love to um we'd love to hear some input from all of you guys and jelly and guava just a follow-up i think that when when that survey is ready we uh i'm pretty sure we can either put an announcement up or something something pretty widespread so that we can get as much as much participation as possible yep for sure perfect yeah thank you both um yeah more more more shout outs um appreciate your work i appreciate you um running some of the meetings that we've had over the last handful of days that you know at times are i wouldn't say contentious but you know full of a lot of folks that really care about making things work right and you know filled with a lot of really good robust discussions always appreciate appreciate the work from both you a quick note um since we have a lot of great people in the audience right now i just made a quick little survey channel in the discord under general and i'll drop a link in in the chat here in case anyone's interested in doing that survey it might be a good place that we can um jelly do you think that's a good idea yeah i think that's great thank you perfect awesome all right very cool all right jelly and dumpling you're more than welcome to stay don't feel obligated though yay so i want to be cognizant of time we were 57 minutes um obviously tons of great discussion um i guess what we'll say actually publius i'll i'll leave it up to you and there's no there's no reason to keep it short i mean if there's questions and there's stuff and people want to hang out we can go all night all right cool so uh the next question on the list is from austin who offered to come up so austin i'll give you the floor hey team um about a question a generalized bean farm question um so my understanding of the future generalized bean farm uh is a few things it'll be more tax efficient in theory uh more gas efficient and eventually be the interface through which we interact with the rest of d5 and i had a couple specific questions about the gas efficiency part so in a world where i swap ether for being outside of beanstalk versus swapping my bean farm wrapped eat for bean farm wrapped bean on the bean farm is one of those actually more gas efficient than the other that that's my first question could you just repeat the end of that question sorry i lost you for a sec austin sorry um so the quote the first question is is the simple swapping of each to bean more gas efficient when done within the generalized bean farm or is it the same uh like computation wise you're going to comment on this publish so you're on me for a sec all right we'll take that and some of my difficulties um but the question was to which one is going to be cheaper likely in this very sp you know in this specific case a straight-to-uniswag text swap will be cheaper on average but there are a couple gas considerations that you know could be you know special cases that would actually lead it to be cheaper through the bean farm um but where in you know direct swaps the the biggest gas efficiency comes is not from having to call an approved transaction in the case you just mentioned if you were trade you know if or you know wrapped eath to to beans through uniswap you would have to approve uniswap to trade your rock deep if you did the trade directly from eth you'd have to the transferring each versus transferring erc20 comes with it with an added gas cost as well so you'd actually have to you know transfer that ease to the uniswap contract which would then send it to the weak contract and give you weave which is an added gas cost that comes with swapping from eath so kind of in both cases with the generalized bean farm you would be swapping trading from you know wrapped eath on the farm to beans wrapped on the farm which would require no approval and there would be no transfers of eve so yeah there's a chance that it's cheaper also if beanstalk already holds both wrapped beans and wrapped eath then it could potentially be cheaper if you don't hold beans as changing a zero in solidity storage to a non-zero value is about 10 times more expensive than changing a non-zero value to a non-zero value okay interesting so at minimum at least the the approval step is skip that that makes sense um and so i guess then with click go ahead just said yeah oh okay sorry know kind of the gas efficiency also depends largely on the type of transaction that's occurring so right it's hard to say but go ahead i was just going to ask would you then say like the main value prop in terms of gas efficiency of the bean farm is the kind of composing transactions together like the example you mentioned the road map is you know depositing into a liquidy trove minting lusd against the eth and then trading that lusd into beans doing something with it etc all in one transaction more so than the maybe marginal gas cost of exchanging ether being on the bean farm versus not definitely um because you know in the case you just mentioned specifically right to do it without the generalized bean farm you would have to first send one transaction to the liquidity trove to create the trophy in lusd then you would have to make sure that lusd is approved for trade in the being lusd pool on curve then you would have to trade in the pool and then you would have to make sure bean is approved for use within bean stock and then you would have to call the deposit transaction so you know in that case it would be up to five transactions at least three and you know here we're able to do in one transaction no approval necessary and you know each added cost to the chain it's also more gas you know expensive gas wise there's a fixed 21 000 you know gas cost with any transaction um so you know by grouping transactions you know gas efficiency and time efficiency by not having to sit through five transactions you know going through makes sense that's super helpful and very exciting appreciate it all right austin thank you for helping up on stage i always appreciate that okay so next um ipo has a follow-up on the audit looks like things were caught and managed very well um so if we were to if we were to talk about the outcomes of the audit and and try to explain them to folks that don't have a lot of knowledge about the protocol ipo says explain these to our mobs or other potential investors how do we explain the audit outcomes of fixes well the mom answer is we got straight a's on our report card um you know if if you'd like a more sophisticated answer you know i'm sure we can we can dive into some of the the results and implications but the mom answer is you know everything everything we got perfect uh marks effective in the grand scheme of things didn't do great on the midterm uh you know didn't it wasn't like everything was perfect when we deployed but in the final report card they gave us you know basically perfect marks love it right beam profit admitting he's my friend that's frankly i appreciate that um decker's dropping some some information about stable swap which is fantastic encourage everybody to go and read that i will check that out later and yes being profit i completely agree why read when you can have published explain it uh let's see dumpling giving the shout out to kid quartz do that again um oh sweet red has sweet red called out ein which i i generally appreciate actually um i had the trivia question early on i'm not seeing not seeing the answer the real folk blues so i'm going to throw the swag to sweet red for the iron call out all right so moving down a little bit more so we've got pull two five two five two five um so they're right if i invest in the beam pool or the bean three curve pool i'll be paid in stock in seats these tokens can't be swapped currently for bean how could i cash out eventually so your stock entitles you to senior edge uh any time you receive senior rich that scene ridge is yours forever those beans are yours and so even though uh you have to forfeit your stock and seeds uh when you withdraw your beans from the silo or lp tokens from the silo any bean senior edge is yours so the the the return is in the form of bean senior rich now the hope is to make stock liquid in the not too distant future and at that point you would potentially be able to sell your stock into beans and sell those beans into other assets if you wanted to without necessarily withdrawing your assets from the silo but those would be the two ways perfect hand as usual i see a lot of helpful stuff that came up actually after paul asks this question so appreciate that from the crowd as well mr manifold hitting up kid quartz around looping good stuff there harry smith with the invite up to kid quartz i do love how we've like coined the term slapping i uh every time i read that term it always makes you laugh so um looking at the next question so man y'all got some crazy discord names zero g's thank you for writing it in the parentheses afterwards because i would have royally messed that up um struggies writes maybe having a lending silo where users deposit into it and it gets redeployed into a rory pool or something um see okay that's this so this is a suggestion to i think it may be actually looping back on um on the kid quartz discussion from earlier we were talking about um leverage so it's certainly possible and you know at some point a lending market will make sense for being stock but if we just think about in the short term the things to prioritize um over the past couple of weeks the liquidity as a percentage of the bean sci supply has continued to grow dramatically and so the hope is that all of the deposited beans in the silo are ultimately going to be providing liquidity and then at that point the real thing that's interesting is being able to add all those lp tokens to some sort of pool for example like a rory fuse pool and then having any of those assets borrowable again um but that you know that's things that are a little bit further down the road potentially now we're also very interested in having other people add beans to their raw refuse pools but that that won't necessarily be easily easily integrable with the silo at the moment perfect and zero g's thanks for the follow-up the only thing that i hate more than murdering someone's name is murdering their questions so i'm glad that i got it right okay so scrolling down a little bit more [Music] um so next question appears to be from canadian bennett one of our favorites so canadian better writes this current cycle looks different if you look at the last growth cycle it really only lasted 11 days and nearly doubled the supply well this current cycle is much more gradual growth is this more gradual growth happening for any particular reason and in your opinion is this better worse or neutral tip seven it's all about it's all about bip7 um it's very hard to understate how having the beans that are in the silo available as supply has had an effect on limiting the excess growth when there is excess demand for beans and so uh bip7 was not live during the previous growth cycles and the effects of having uh you know all of these beans and if you look at the deposited beans chart in the silo it's like just craziness honestly um the amount of bees that are deposited in the silo just continue to go down and down and down and we'll drop a photo in the class discussion in just a sec and in short um that has facilitated basically um that has facilitated the the growth of the bean supply the growth of the liquidity with less upside volatility and uh that's much more sustainable in the grand scheme because the hope is that uh if there is ever periods of time where there's excess supply for beans in the coming weeks and months which at some point there certainly will be a lot of this liquidity will then be converted back to deposited beans and so there's this dampening effect on both sides of the peg and agree more you know it makes me think um i should go back and take a look at so um so january 29th or 30th right at the end of january is when when the protocol really started to hit peg really really consistently and i've always wanted to go back when i think of it momentarily and look at the um where when bip7 when bip7 went into effect versus that date i don't know how close they were but i think they're they're relatively close i think seven was december 14th yep sounds about right okay looking down lots of good banter dumpling these questions are slapping okay okay alex alex love it um so alex alex asks a question that we talk about a lot what does this convert y'all are talking about i feel like there may be a few a few pieces to this answer so convert is a beanstalk term that refers to currently two different things um one is the both refer to the ability to convert beans and lp tokens back and forth within the silo there's two different types of converts at the moment one is where you take deposited beans and you convert them into deposited lp by adding additional ethereum and it's lp tokens for the beneath pool when the convert is generalized you'll be able to do it for other pools that are in the xylem but you you take your depositor beans you match it with if and now you have deposited lp the second type of convert which was the one introduced by bip7 is the ability to take your deposited beans and convert them into deposit lp when the price is above one without adding additional aetherium and therefore it's effectively selling half of those beans into ethereum and then adding those lp tokens to the to you know whether it's adding liquidity to the pool and then those lp tokens are in the silo and so those are the two different converts that are currently available and that's what's being discussed now uh hand in hand with the second convert is you know the flip you can't you it's not just that you can convert deposited beans into deposited lp tokens you can do the the reverse when the price is too low and convert deposited lp tokens back to deposited beans our opportunities on both sides of the peg love it all right looking again lots of fantastic banter in the chat harry smith director of slabs it's like being intern senior vice president of vibes all right let's see okay man think dropping in as always with a really good question try to do it just here so i'm just going to try to read through it um actually yeah read the question yeah yep okay okay so syncs syncs um reply to canadian bennett we'll just read write down through it so sync writes i've also been thinking about this in the context of generalized minting is the protocol actually maintaining peg better now because the three curve pool or because the three curve pool is not being referenced yet for minting we'll start the there just read the whole question i think okay all right i'll go right down through the rest of it it's really one question okay perfect okay does this enable arbitragers and liquidity providers to reconcile the variance in beans between the eighth and three curve pools and would it make sense to gradually add pools for consideration to the minting schedule as they're included in the silo and perhaps have a limit at some point on the number of pools that are referenced um the protocol is probably it's hard to say it you know definitively but it's probably if you define maintaining a better pegas the price being closer to a dollar is probably doing a worse job of maintaining pay that's different than minting that's different than the pot rate just talking about the price being at a dollar because there's no converts available in the bean three curve pool and so what's been happening over the past couple weeks is the b three curve pool is trading uh above a dollar and the usd uh excuse me the bean eat unison pool is constantly being converted uh back to a dollar uh but um then it's immediately arbitraged by mev bots to effectively sell and curve and buy-in unit swap and then so there's this continuous or there has been this continuous excess and uniswap where you have people converting or turning the price back to a dollar but because of the accessing curve and the inability to convert against the curve pool as well uh there just tends to be on average the price trading above a dollar so if you were able to convert you know against both pools it's it's easy to imagine that uh there there would be tighter peg maintenance on both pools and then the effect that would have on minting is unclear um it would probably result in less minting over time but then again uh you know we'll really have to watch your play on practice to get anything definitive because there's too many variables to model um does this enable arbitrages and liquidity providers to reconcile the variance and beings yes um right now uh you know basically so one thing to clarify this is related to your question about adding pools to the silo and the minting schedule the two are really distinct right and any asset that's included in the in the silo doesn't need to be included in the minting schedule by any means and in fact what's included in the minting schedule there really should be some sort of separation between church and state when it comes to the process by which pools are added to the white list for the silo and by pools are added to the to the mending schedule and the minting schedule is really where the oracle comes from right and so any pool that we're minting against being stuck is effectively saying we view this asset as a good price of a dollar in some capacity and so uh don't think that there are too many assets on ethereum that qualify for that um and therefore the pools that would be eligible for a minting to be included in the minting schedule are highly limited in our opinion now um the the the question about gradually adding pools in general definitely think gradual is the way to go but i think we're going to see more pools being gradually added to the silo then more pools gradually being added to the minting schedule once we have three curve minting you know unlikely to there's no immediate other minting pools that come to mind that we need off the top of our head now as as things evolve everything can change obviously but uh that would be our analysis at the current moment appreciate that info oh and uh don't think i didn't notice the thomas jefferson church and state dropped there too all right pant just again lots of really good questions and information in the chat being intern next um so in his in his uh you know thick aussie accent being intern asks hey is the amount of beans minted a t-wop of the liquidity and is there an attack vector of dumping in liquidity before a new season then pulling that liquidity so beanstalk doesn't really technically use a t-wop in the traditional sense it really uses a time-weighted average delta b and what that means is uh beanstalk takes an average of the time and liquidity excuse me the liquidity weighted uh delta of beans that need to be bought or sold in the bean eat eunice while pool for the price to be a dollar over the course of the season and so uh the short answer is that makes it highly resistant to any sort of attack vector of changing the liquidity at the time that the sunrise function is called and so both the price or really the delta b and the liquidity is taken into effect over the course of the whole season so the delta b calculation takes into effect takes into account the liquidity and therefore the it's really like a time and liquidity weighted average delta b would be the way to think about it but um you know it's very verbose i think that hit it though and i'm trying to get inside of being an intern's mind too it seems like that's that was the heart of the question all right lots of get really good banter um yeah when we go to general as minting uh the white paper is going to be updated to kind of introduce this time weighted average delta b notion whereas right now it literally says time and liquidity weighted but it'll probably honestly is it prime liquidity weighted stealth okay scrolling down through again lots of great information and and good conversation in the chat okay looks like i think our next next question is from censored user who writes excuse me where does the apy rate come from in the silo beans only versus new lp rates trying to understand their question yeah um also curious who censored you user um that would be another question we have for you um but they have another related question where do the beans in the form of the interest come from which is and i think it's related to where does the apy rate come from in the silo um so beings the bean apy is from newly minted beans and beans are minted every time there's a time weighted average excess excuse me time weighted average shortage of beans in the pool over the previous season time and liquidity weighted average excess shortage cheese louise a time and liquidity weighted average shortage of beads in the pool and so anytime there's this uh positive delta b as it's displayed on the website anytime you have an excess on average beans that need to be sold into the pool you need more being sold bean stock mints new beans and those half of new beans that are minted are paid to pod holders paid to lenders and half go to stockholders in the silo and so the bean apy is calculated based on the beans that have been paid to silo members to stockholders over the previous uh 720 seasons the past 30 days and then the stock apy um is reflective of the fact that you receive more stock from seeds when you deposit acids in the silo over time and the lp apys are higher than the being ap wise because of the fact that you receive more stock over time [Music] because you receive more seats perfect and looking down to the bottom of the chat sensor user writes first of all jack from twitter censored them sorry to hear about that maybe elon can get you uncensored i don't know see how it goes um and oh and yeah censored user you hit it so displayed apy essentially tells us what has happened and is not necessarily projection i would agree with that publius that is a fact yep just perfect okay so i'm going to scroll back up make sure it hurts the only thing just to add to clarify is it does take into effect affect the current liquidity so uh if right now the liquidity increased by 10 percent uh the apy would also increase by 10 because the liquidity is calculated based on the historical liquidity weighted uh minting and so if there's an increase in liquidity the ap wise will increase to reflect that and the reason for that is because uh being stock mints based on uh the liquidity and so it you know we felt like it was uh reasonable to display the fact that as the liquidity increases uh you know even if uh uh last month there wasn't a high amount of liquidity if this month there's significantly more liquidity that should be reflected in the apys because it's likely that there's going to be significantly increased minting as a result as well at least we lost it there just the last like five seconds or so you trailed off a little bit all right well regardless i think we can move on i apologize about that we're good okay can you hear us now yes perfectly no worries at all jdp 630 i see you there um because you say you knew the answer is real folk blues i'm going to have farmer dan cendy swag anyways um let's see even participation trophies outrex what a community leader that's right i'm just like i'm making i'm making promises that farmer dan's gonna have to keep later on so can't beat it um all right be an intern ask how can i put my hand up so i can only jump up without asking be an intern you're you just have the approvals so you're just you you're allowed to come up here yeah your discord permission so no hand raising for you sir that's right if i ask a question like this absolutely definitely yep you're good to go be an intern whenever you're ready wait sorry hello yep we can we can hear you now okay so basically um i was i've been looking at uh tracer dao quite a lot recently and they have these like perpetual swap products where you can basically use everything as collateral to trade other assets and yeah i thought it could be a pretty cool i don't know if anyone saw the olympus integration but i thought it could be a pretty cool implementation to look at in the future where basically you can provide beans as collateral uh to then have exposure to any other asset of your choosing through these sort of synthetic pools but it could be pretty cool so you can have a big pool of beans and then you can have a little like trading desk set up where you can like pick which other assets you want to have exposure to through these uh synthetic pools and initially i thought maybe it could be through the silo but then i realized there could be issues of like if your supply like if you're losing money then it means you're sort of kind of withdrawing from the silo without the lock-up period and um but yeah i thought it could be pretty interesting idea to bring up and yeah thought i'd bring it up on the call see if people have opinions of it and thoughts yeah and happy to answer questions if i didn't explain myself very well which part of poses they're called tracer at the moment they just do these perpetual pulls but they're about to launch like a trustless way that you can launch your own own pools which is what i think could be of interest to being i think it could be a little i like i don't want us to dive right into it but i just thought i'd add it to the radar of things to be looking into very cool send it along and obviously we'll take a look epic shout out to be an intern um joining the team as part of the metaverse group as well as helping out with some some biz dev so great to have you have you coming on also i saw your comment about my pfp changes and you are right there with your uh username changes so we're we're one in the same whether with the constant fluctuation yeah i've actually i'm doing a really big um rebrand soon which everyone should be uh excited for and i'm gonna like bestow the bean intern persona upon someone else um i think that it's a bit sad because i feel like i feel pretty attached to it honestly except i've got a very strong plan for having especially at com physical conferences and stuff i'm going to go really hard on branding at that and i think that it will end up being even better for to beanstalk in the in the long run because i'll be able to chill a bit harder without i think sometimes people if you like chill right away people get turned off but then you get invited to shield if you just kind of hang around and say like yeah i'm associated with these things but yeah i've got a really strong branding thing around stable coins that i'm going to push and hopefully get invited to conferences and things like that and throw parties but yeah very excited senior vice president of vibes beanstalk farms so i'm here for yeah thanks so much for letting me jump up thank you okay man we're still we're publius you good we we're good to keep going i mean sure there is nothing that could give us more joy in this world than chatting with farmers all night excellent perfect the more questions you guys have the happier we are honestly wonderful okay so being bankman refried one of my favorite names love that name so they ask what are their no-brainers in your opinion for whitelisting next similar to lusd and then any updates on partnership discussions or pools you're considering next couple comments and this is gonna make it sound like a little bit of a snob don't think basically anything is a no-brainer and don't like the word partnership um but to answer you more substantively being vague and refried um definitely agree that lusd is in the grand scheme of things a very low risk and very high reward and a high leverage opportunity and then that way could be described as a no-brainer and we may have done that uh so that might have been what you're referring to right so apologies of that for making fun of you for quoting us there uh which is possible um but in terms of other pools that are high leverage i think that the being four curve uh pool is is uh or the four pool whatever you want to call it is very interesting um as well as just like a bean frax or a bean ust pool uh one thing that would be noted is we do think that you know there is some bridge risk obviously associated with ust uh which would be new to beanstalk uh taking on some of that risk but ultimately uh one of the things we want to work on is a way to and this has to do with the gate system in the silo like create a much more flexible effectively a flexible system where a pool can be uh deprecated if there's a problem uh and so that will hopefully provide a little bit more resilience to bridge risk and other stuff and allow beanstalk to maybe take on a little bit more risk from other pools but if we take a little bit of a step back and think about where beanstalk is at um beanstalk has just started to deleverage ultimately and so when we think about risk reward uh there's the goal is to really take on as little additional risk as possible that could create any sort of black swan or tail risk event for beanstalk in the short term that would get in the way of the currency leverage and so that's why lusd is particularly attractive is because of the fact that it's ethereum native and uh has a done a very strong job of maintaining uh its peg or at least or even trading above peg uh consistently and therefore uh seems pretty low risk in the grand scheme of things and there's a lot of value out there potentially and so if we think about over time sp and stock deleverages its ability to add uh other other assets or other pools that are potentially or in reality a little bit more riskier um or in theory more risky uh or have more risk associated with them it'd be the right way to say it uh you know there's a time for everything but right now definitely still inclined to be more risk-averse on the white listing side very fair all right scrolling down morgan banter um so next delteco asks does generalized minting only occur when all pools are above peg since generalized minting will result in more beans minted will this also mean more soil supply in general to offset it so the generalized minting will occur will basically function as a sum across the different pools so if there was a time and liquidity weighted average delta b in the unesco pool of plus 10 000 and then the curve pool of minus 5000 you would add them together and only five thousand bees would be minted and if it was plus ten thousand minus ten thousand no beans would be meant and if it was plus five thousand minus ten thousand five thousand soil would be minted now uh generalized minting will not necessarily result in more beans minted but um it will likely result in uh you know it's very hard frankly it's very hard to predict now if you had morphine spin did uh based on the way that soil is minted currently you know if you if you mint 10 more beans over the next season you are going to have 10 more soil so uh from that perspective it is true that if there is more minting you'll have more soil but generally unclear whether there will be more minting of beans in the soil after generalized minting is locked at least until you run out of all the beans in the silo we should say like if you run out of deposited beans in the silo to convert um right now there's still a 25 million beans in the silo so about half the supply or a little more than that um you know if we were close to zero or in the low millions where there's no cell pressure at that point you might expect there to be an increase in the in the beans that are minted but that's more of a less a function of the generalized minting other than you could make the argument that we're more likely to get to that place where there's no or very little depositor beans in the silo because of generalized minting and convert if that makes sense but um that would be where you'd start to potentially see an increase in the mintage or at least more likely to see one all right del taco's second the second part of their question is also is it possible to make silo deposits themselves liquid within the silo i.e i can exit my silo position by selling it tune in to an interested buyer grown stock included no less yep no liquidity just traded i hope the hope is for there to be a liquid market for your styler silo closets between the stickiness from stock having to be forfeited and the ability to get a pretty good price because you'd assume there's a liquid market uh at some point hopefully there is one um yeah you'd expect that to be exactly the case all right so orbub has a question about why people don't redeem pods for beans it sounds like we're headed towards like talking about the the marketplace so pods that are in the pod line are not harvestable they cannot be redeemed for beans yet in the future when the bean supply grows those pods will on a first and first down basis become harvestable and uh then you'll be able to redeem them for beans now there is a farmer's market which is a secondary market for pods where you can list and try to sell your pods for beans but the pods in the pod line cannot be redeemed for being so they're stuck in the pod line whether or not you sell them or not hope that got your question or above yeah feel free to if you're in the app um check out the marketplace it could be what you're looking for all right austin calls out the new record i think that is right austin 50 folks in attendance 51 we just broke the record again momentarily uh yeah i think that is the highest we've ever had so thanks everybody for coming always love it yeah being stock a t its rating is going to go down for large class sizes that's right we need somebody should tell the head of community that like we need a t university t-shirts we need some tas we need to have breakout sessions it's nice 50 people in class it's like serious who's gonna who's gonna come to a lecture like that you know this is supposed to be a small discussion so uh you know grateful everyone's comfortable getting up on stage in front of all the people and chatting we really appreciate it indeed and speaking of dumpling and j-dubs are up on up on stage and you guys want to find out i'm just trying to change the ratio you know the faculty that you know um yeah actually i was just gonna make a quick plug so um i know we're not wrapped up but just so everyone in the audience knows next week we're gonna do uh an ama and it's gonna actually be the first one that we're doing kind of outside of the discord um and uh obviously everyone here is excited we're gonna drop an update for that for everyone but it would be kind of like the first metaverse ama metaverse beanstalk piece um so it should be again i'm just saying that tandem of what you're saying uh rex and puglia's hopefully we've got a pretty big turnout for that one as well next week yeah it's pretty sweet he was www was showing it to me earlier today and it's it's sweet you can customize your what you're wearing and your everything and then you can walk around and it's everything here it's everything you want as a dog can i customize my flea collar that's really what i want to know you could probably get that color going and like customize the hair but i'm not sure i don't think you can actually be a dog yet on the internet no one knows your dog now that's a great uh great plug j dubs and dumpling and i appreciate you mentioning that so that's that's the octomob ama right jdubs yep yeah so we're gonna it's gonna be a chance for us to to be introduced to them and thanks to be an intern for for connecting all of us but also it's like because it's a traditional ama like these classes normally are we used to run an ama like once everything four weeks or once every eight weeks but um it'll be kind of the same format so definitely everyone it's we're going to introduce ourselves to that community but it'd be fantastic if we could have a big presence and have people show up and and ask the same questions and have great conversation over there as well indeed jadobs can you just say again when that was when that is uh yeah so it'll be in a week from now uh 5 30 pacific uh we're gonna drop uh something like in all the threads and stuff like that but it'll be we'll drop the it's in their gather town which is called octa cave uh and we'll send yeah the link that you go to and the time and stuff like that uh just make sure if you're gonna attend that you go a little bit early so you can kind of set up your avatar pick your collar color etc and uh yeah that's it that's next week tuesday the 12th correct yep next week tuesday the 12th at 5 30 pacific 8 30. fantastic all right oh man trying to wiggle my way down through the rest of the class discussion oh wow got censored user maddox debating about tesla stock splits austin talking about notes and recordings good stuff there okay um okay so censored user asks probably one of our favorite questions why is beanstalk and beans not a ponzi well there's a lot of different ways to go about this and i think you skipped another fun question from censored users all right yeah i will scroll back and find it then we don't have a good answer for it but it's at least good to verbalize it because it's such a fun question but to answer about why is being stock and beans not a policy so a ponzi scheme is at least in the traditional sense something where you're paying newer investors with older investors and so you take in money and then when you you you basically promise to return some sort of growth on that money that you cannot return or you fall short of and then the way that you ultimately pay people back their capital with the return is with new people's money uh the main fundamental thing that makes beanstalk totally different from a ponzi is that beanstalk can mint new beans beanstalk can actually fulfill the obligation and furthermore beanstalk never actually mince beans that it's not prom you know never promises beans it only mince beans according to the bean supply it never says oh here are beans that we promise to meet you next season that never happens it only means forward-looking and so when you consider the fact that sure like the system is is reliant on the fact that it is able to attract people that will lend to it and if you're lending to be in stock today and you know i'm not going to be able to lend to be in stock forever my bags aren't infinitely deep uh i'm gonna need other people whenever i'm done lending to beanstalk or run out of the capital i'm willing to risk lending to beanstalk i expect other people are also going to be willing to lend to beanstalk that certainly exists but that idea that you know you're you're buying into something and expecting other people to also buy into it and without other people buying into it you're you're unable to make a profit that doesn't make it a ponzi scheme that just makes it some sort of collective endeavor and the real elegance of beanstalk is that it is able to coordinate independent actors to do different things to create this stability and ultimately you know if you take a big step back and you think about what are miners from crypto network they're spending some sort of capital uh in exchange for some sort of tokens that otherwise don't are not valuable other than the utility that the miners themselves are created and so if you think about lenders who are lending to beanstalk uh you can think about them serving a similar role to the peon stock ecosystem as miners would to uh the bitcoin ecosystem for example where they're expending some sort of resources today with the expectation of earning some sort of token in the future that will have value because of the utility that they're helping to create but if they're the only ones mining the blockchain then it's just a useless you know a useless uh endeavor and you're burning electricity so in reality you know the fundamental thing that makes being stock not a ponzi is its ability to mint its own currency and it's never issuing obligations or saying that it's gonna pay you something that it cannot pay um but then beyond that the structure of the network as a whole is designed in a way that is very much aligned with other successful cryptocurrency systems and so you know if bitcoin is a ponzi scheme then you know that that's a different starting point for this discussion but if we stick to the traditional definition of a ponzi scheme we're certainly not saying bitcoins is ponzi scheme sometimes our smirk gets lost through the voice modifier um but you know just want to highlight like this is this is a network that's designed to create uh positive network effects by aligning the incentives of distributed disaligned market participants it's not designed to promise hey we'll pay you back with the next buys money that's something that it does not do in basically any capacity other than the pod line is first in first down appreciate that dumpling on stage what can we do for you good night nothing nothing i'm good okay cool girls welcome to hang out so okay back to censored users fun question and i apologize for not grabbing this earlier censored user asks man start talking about symbols and stuff so i'm going to try to verbalize this is it true that yale behavioral is greater than the chicago school when it comes to explaining why tesla stock shot up on the split so we don't we're not going to speculate we weren't watching the market that closely so don't have a sense of how things actually traded uh when this happened um you know also you know not i'm not sure if we would if it's being called the yale behavioral school these days i guess we're out of touch um you know but we would think that a little interesting to juxtapose yelling in chicago and like richard thalor who's one of the leaders of behavioral economics i believe they're at uchicago um but nonetheless a very interesting question to think about and appreciate just you know love the thought shout out to dick taylor one of the most entertaining behavioral economists out there all right scrolling down through again i always love the banter man lots of farmer dan i i think farmer dan's in the crowd yeah he is farmer dan lots of lots of shout outs lots of pressure to get uh get get lots of merch rolling so we gonna do it all right looking good austin calling out 50. we got 49 now great attendance appreciate everybody hanging on through the good discussion are we wow i think okay being back and refried down at the bottom of the the chat even though there are folks still typing beanbankronry fried asks when bean payments win irl bean farmers accepting beans for beans ultimate utility ultimately when beans are buying when bean farmers are buying their beans with beans uh that will be like a mama i made it moment you know like what more could you ever ask for so uh you know it's actually great that we we finally got to the end of the class discussion line we seem to have exhausted the the questions what a great what a great way to uh to to end the discussion today what a fun class huh indeed man can't beat it really can't all right anything else everyone otherwise you're going to have to wait until next week that's right deltek i was typing looks like just dropping dropping awesome banter into the chat so i think i think with that we're gonna call it almost two hours deep impressive beautiful we we keep it going if you guys have questions we're not going to be the ones to quit that's right that's right uh that'll be like a game of chicken will you guys keep coming up you know not the best uh maybe for for our for us to start taunting everyone with this uh we certainly uh love all the questions tremendously indeed all right well um as always pretty appreciate everybody's time always love the good questions um you can keep it rolling in the chat we will if there's stuff that we we didn't get this time around we'll we'll grab it for next class this is also great stuff that we can always put on the podcast too as we continue to develop you