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Beanstalk University Class #17

Date
March 22, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Publius thoughts on ETH Merge, PoS, and what it means for Beanstalk • 3:55 Generalized Convert and Beanstalk Dex • 8:30 What keeps Publius up at night • 13:40 How does $BEAN compare to Luna/UST • 21:20 What does the market cap of $BEAN need to be to clear the podline • 24:00 Origin of the Beanstalk logo • 25:15 How will generalized minting impact $BEAN volatility? • 30:35 Difference between collateralized vs credit stablecoins • 36:25 Is BIP-14 just a quick fix?
Type
Beanstalk University

Recordings

Notes

Summary

  • In this edition of Beanstalk A&T, we cover topics like:
    • The generalized Silo and minting
    • Should Beanstalk have a treasury? (no)
    • Decentralization of the Beanstalk contract ownership
    • What a Beanstalk-native DEX would look like
    • and more...

Q&A

What does Proof of Stake mean to Beanstalk?

  • It’s unclear whether movement from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake is the right decision for ETH, but also no red flags as to this being a mistake
  • For Beanstalk, doesn’t present any substantive changes that immediately come to mind

For the Beanstalk DEX, will users be able to swap between ERC-20s that are in pools within The Silo? For instance, Eth > LUSD once that pool is up?

  • There’s a short term upgrade to the Silo which is called “Generalized Convert” which will facilitate converting various assets in the Silo to each other, allowing for more arbitrage
    • Should be up within the next month or so
    • Right now you are able to convert between Deposited Beans and Bean:ETH LP. Generalizing this will facilitate very flexible movement of capital and efficient arbitrage across any asset in the Silo (when we incorporate new assets into the Silo down the road)
  • A high-level goal in the longer term for Beanstalk is a native DEX with no fees whatsoever
    • Incentive for providing liquidity is stalk rewards
      • Attraction for users is the lack of any fees whatsoever
    • Decentralized open source tech can bring fees down to 0 (it’s a race to 0)
    • Actually offering 0 fees would be massive and would create the ultimate DEX
      • This is theoretically doable using stalk rewards
    • A DEX allows for cross-chain bridging with minimal cost. This way, a Beanstalk DEX could create a hub for Defi across any chain
    • The idea of a Beanstalk DEX is very nascent but it’s very exciting

What keeps Publius up at night about Beanstalk or crypto?

  • Right now Publius is sleeping pretty well these days. There’s a lot of work to do but nothing that causes anguish or suffering or anything that really worries Publius about the future of the protocol
  • A few months ago this same question was asked — back then the major worry was potential exploits in the code. Seems like we have improved here especially with the Omniscia audit.

LUNA/Terra has been making waves recently w/ recent announced BTC reserves. In general, how does Bean compare to LUNA/Terra from both an ability to scale perspective and from its ability to generate returns for investors?

  • Most fundamental difference between Terra and Bean is that has no protocol native utility — the yield on Terra is primarily from Anchor
    • In the Terra ecosystem LUNA holders receive 100% of the upside from the growth of the protocol
    • In Beans if you just own beans you can participate in the growth of the protocol via the Field and Silo
  • Right now LUNA/Terra has worked well because every $ in demand for Terra has created >$1 of demand for LUNA in the market
    • So what Anchor has turned into is a way to create inorganic demand for Terra. In the short term this has created some product market fit
    • Confusing to us what the long term strategy for LUNA/Terra is because it seems they are concerned about the growth of the ecosystem and demand for Terra, as evidenced by the decision to propose changing the Anchor yield to a variable rate depending on the reserves
    • LUNA/Terra, in our minds, is the only other stablecoin besides Beanstalk to provide a credible solution the the collateralized stablecoin problem
      • The ability to have LUNA float freely and serve as collateral was a real innovation. The fact that they are backtracking on this totally LUNA-based collateral model and that they are concerned about growth in demand for Terra demonstrates the fundamental problem when there is no protocol native yield for Terra itself (growth becomes a problem because it is hard to sustain the yields)
      • In contrast, because you have positive yield on your Beans, in reality, if you were to offer something like a stable product on Beans (an equivalent to Anchor), if you assume the deposits/loans are denominated in Beans, then the only thing you need to do is match the person who wants the stable yield with the person who wants to take the other side. However, the Silo will yield more than whatever the stable yield is. And because the Bean themselves have a yield associated with them, the yield doesn’t come from some external subsidy (as it is in Anchor/Terra) , there’s much more of a natural financial market that can be built on top of Beanstalk where fixed rate loans can be supported.
        • So when people think about what protocol to build financial products on top off, the fact that the stablecoin has positive yield offers many benefits

The current pod line is about 680 million, does the market cap have to be at 1.360 billion to clear the line based on half going to silo half going to field? Or how is market cap correlated to silo/field ?

  • Bean supply will need to grow by 1.360 billion
  • Market cap has no effect on the distribution of new bean mints
  • Every time there is a new bean mint, 50% to field and 50% to silo

When we start calculating bean prints off of the deficit of beans of both Uniswap and Curve, how do you anticipate that affecting volatility? And will that be the sum of the delta of the two pools, or the average?

  • Answer to 2nd question: it will be the Cumulative sum of the minting pools
  • The key thing to highlight is this will go live with generalized convert so the market will get even more efficient across pools because generalized convert offers the ability to arbitrage. This will moderate excesses in other pools (like where we see the curve pool having 30k excesses these days), but this could also accelerate minting, but we will need to see.
    • We do expect it to further decrease volatility around the peg
  • Announcement: Weather just went below 6900%!

For those who are newer to the protocol, can you explain the difference between collateralized stablecoins and credit based stablecoins? What is usually used as collateral and what advantages do you see to a credit based model?

  • collateralized stablecoins require some collateral to be locked. An increase in demand for stablecoins means an enormous amount of collateral needs to exist. The problem is there just isn’t sufficient collateral (on-chain as well as off-chain) to meet this demand.
  • The lack of collateral means that there is a huge shortage of stablecoins in DeFi today compared to the demand. Basic economics tells us that when you have a shortage of supply, you get a higher price. That “higher price” shows up in the borrowing and lending costs which are now almost 10%(!) and rising.
  • In essence, the lack of collateral restricts the scalability of collateralized stablecoins. This phenomenon has resulted in limited supply and high borrowing and lending rates.
  • Now, imagine a scenario where an algorithmic stablecoin maintains price stability through a credit-based model as opposed to the existing collateral-based model
    • This is Beanstalk — this eliminates these problems that arise because of collateral

Is BIP14 a quick fix and we’re still rethinking the model or do you think this good enough for now?

  • BIP14 will be substantive step towards improving the system, and once it’s implemented we’ll see how things respond and iterate from there (if iteration is needed)

Can we get a bit more detail on those Bean Sprout initiatives on the docket?

  • The Saloon (now called Root Finance)
    • High level — we observed product market fit for Anchor/Terra, in large part due to high fixed yields, so we put our heads together on how Beanstalk can also offer a fixed yield product
    • Aims to create an attractive and sustainable source of fixed yield that will compete with Anchor — has potential to offer highest fixed yield in Defi. This will also make it easy to participate in Beanstalk without having to understand all the complexities of Stalk and Seeds and Sowing etc.
    • This will create a 3rd way to bet on the success of Beanstalk outside of the Field and Silo
    • We view the importance of stalk growing super quickly as Defi wakes up to the advantages of parking liquidity in the Silo.
      • The Saloon can influence stalk governance with the reserves it would have
  • To be clear, the Saloon is an incubated product — standalone protocol outside of Beanstalk that leverages Beans

Drake decides to enter the silo for $10m or Kanye guarantees to talk about Bean (positively) every week but doesn’t put in any money - what do we choose?

  • If you had asked us a couple months ago when the peg maintenance was weaker, we would have taken Drake
  • Now, we would take Kanye

I see OHM mentioned here frequently, has there been any collaboration with that team?

  • A few ideas we are chatting through:
    • 1.) gOHM:BEAN LP which they’re going to seed and we’ll push to add to the silo once it has 1-2M in liquidity
    • 2.) Add Bean as an asset type to the OHM rari fuse party pool
    • 3.) Olympus launch Bean bonds
    • 4.) Beanstalk Farms pitching the OHM Treasury on creating Bean pairs with LUSD, FRAX, and DAI

Would there be opportunity for Beanstalk to buy-out any of the developing stablecoins or be bought out by these protocols?

  • Because Beanstalk is uninhibited by collateral and can mint an arbitrary amount of beans, we don’t think a buyout in the traditional sense applies here. This also makes Beanstalk a positive sum participant in the ecosystem
  • In the immediate future, Beanstalk is trying to attract some LUSD from the LUSD:Stability pool ahead of the halving in their rewards that is occuring on April 5. Beanstalk is seeking to deploying a Bean:LUSD Curve pool and whitelist it for the Silo to offer Beanstalk native awards for LUSD holders.
  • This is an example of Beanstalk creating yield opportunities for other protocols for providing liquidity to Bean and this creates a positive feedback loop where Beanstalk is supporting other protocols and providing liquidity for them while also benefiting Beanstalk
  • Not a negative sum game where we are trying to buy out other stablecoins — we can help each other out by pooling and providing liquidity. Beanstalk is uniquely able to do this because it is positive carry and there is no supply constraint

Will any/ all bean LP token that is in the silo be apart of the minting schedule?

  • No — whatever is whitelisted in the silo is a separate decision from what is part of the minting schedule. Independent decision
  • Pools that are used for minting should be restricted to stablecoins or other strong prices sources for a dollar

When will convert be available for Bean to Bean:3crv within the Silo?

  • This will happen when generalized minting goes live — BIP for that should be ready in <1 month

What downsides/hang-ups do you see of retailers accepting Bean as a form of payment?

  • 3 that stand out:
    • 1) Stability and liquidity needs to be more proven out
    • 2) Gas fees are expensive and Bean is not yet on any L2s
    • 3) Crypto payment rails are not the smoothest
  • But we’ll get there

Transcript

so i'm looking through the class discussion and i'm not seeing a whole lot of questions yet i'm going to give a couple extra minutes for folks to start to add those um but i'm i'm actually going to ask you a quick question to start us off publius and um it's really um i mean it's being stock related but it's a little bit more broad so reading more and more things about the ethereum proof of stake the merge that's happening just wanted to get kind of your thoughts about the emergent general what does you know what does proof of stake kind of mean to you and then what do you think it means for beanstalk well in the grand scheme of things the transition from proof of work to proof of stake is it's unclear to us whether that will ultimately be uh in the long run the right decision for ethereum for a variety of different reasons uh but but you know tech tech is constantly moving forward and don't don't necessarily think that there's any any apparent red flags that would cause us to be hesitant that this is a mistake for ethereum uh there is some concern as to in the long run the potential centralization of ownership of ethereum but frankly don't haven't spent too much time thinking about that in earnest so that's more just like something that could be an issue but we have no sense of whether it is or not um but in the grand scheme of things are very excited to see where it goes and then to answer your second question about how it affects beanstalk the short answer is uh it shouldn't affect being stock uh too substantively uh from a user side and you know don't have don't i mean frankly this is it you know just hasn't been one of our foremost concerns so we prefer not to speak too much on something we haven't spent our time thinking about how what if anything be in stock we'll need to change but don't think that there's anything substantive so uh the short answer is uh we will you know we'll get back to you but but don't think that there's anything that comes to mind uh immediately sure and perfectly reasonable and like i said i mean i know it's not real specific to beanstalk the i feel like the articles that i've been reading have generally been um and positive specifically in terms of things like energy efficiency which seems to be some of the uh the broader questions that governments are asking and then potentially gas fees as well and um you know i think about how it might affect beanstalk you know i the transactions that are happening to be able to perform those with lower gas fees obviously seems like it'd be a boon but um yeah just just kind of an interesting thing that's out on the horizon i want to say that um i think it's supposed to be taking place sometime in the june time frame but i suppose we'll see how that rolls out all right looks like ah mr manifold dropping a good question to to formally kick us off into the chat so mr manifold asks um or says for silo swap will users be able to swap between erc20 tokens that are in pods within the silo for instance eth to you or to lusd once that pool is up so don't exactly know what silo swap refers to uh but in short uh once generalized convert is live uh oh the beanstalk decks well the beanstalk dax is act so this is one thing i think we haven't done a great job of clarifying which is there's like a short-term upgrade to the silo which will be generalized convert uh which will facilitate converting various assets in the silo from one another into one another it with pretty with a wide range of flexibility to basically arbitrage the pools together in short um and arbitrage the bean price to one uh that's that's like a generalized convert that should be live in the next month or so hopefully but then the beanstalk dex is a fundamentally different thing and ultimately the idea behind the beanstalk dax is that uh because beanstalk will be able to attract liquidity uh hopefully just through stock allocations uh there's no need to use another dex for a lot of different pools where the dex is charging some sort of rent or fee and so at some point the hope would be that beanstalk farms or another you know group of developers develops a really flexible dex that sits on top of beanstalk and earns stock rewards uh but you know like this the short answer is there's the the short answer is that there's the the silo convert which is why when you said silo swap thought you might have been referring to that but that's uh going to be happening in the in the nearer term and just to expand on how that will work a little bit so currently you can convert uh there's two different converts that beanstalk currently supports uh one is you can convert deposited beans into deposited lp tokens for the being ethereum swap pool by matching your beans with additional ethereum and specifically uh you know that convert has been live since beanstalk launched then there's the second type of convert that was introduced with bip7 which is the ability to convert lp to beans from the prices below one and beans to lp when the price is above one and so the idea behind generalizing convert is that pools will support both the first type of convert where you can take your deposited beans and match them with whatever other assets beans are trading against in white listed assets without losing your stock on deposited beans and also the ability to convert between different pools that are mispriced so if you have a pool with two assets uh that are trading at a different ratio in short uh b that have a different price uh you will be able to arb convert liquidity from the higher price pool into liquidity for the lower price pool uh to arbitrage the difference and uh the idea is that that should facilitate pretty efficient arbitrage between the different pools and then obviously there's also the ability to convert uh beans into lp when the price is above one and convert any of those lp to beams when the price is below one and the idea is that all of these converts are going to facilitate really flexible movement of capital within the silo uh in the not too distant future so when you say silo swap if anything that could refer to something if you know what i mean uh but but the beanstalk decks is something that's a little bit further down the road all right good information okay so uh next so canadian bennett writes uh with regards to beanstalk and crypto in general what keeps you publius up at night wow what a question uh good one we'll speak just for ourselves uh you know what keeps us up at night um i mean the short answer is sleeping pretty good these days um but the problems that are approved is just a message the fact that the bean logo doesn't actually look like a bean yeah that was pretty traumatic for us honestly when a couple of the design team told us that um it doesn't look like a b we were quite uh quite broken up about that um so yeah publish harps on the smaller things like that uh on on our end oh you know really just focused on uh there's a couple there's just a lot going on you know and so if anything it's like the real-time optimization is uh it's all consuming uh it's a mental problem that's very rewarding so the thing that keeps us up at night is just there's a lot going on there's a lot of work to do we're working all the time um but don't necessarily feel like there's anything keeping us up at night in the proverbial sense that's uh causing us anguish or suffering for uh i mean in in many respects this is living the dream and so uh very excited for what beanstalk has in front of it and uh you know the only report from this is something we were saying a silo chat earlier the only reward for hard work is more work and that's something we really live by and uh are very excited to the peenstock is working sufficiently that we can continue to work on this and we feel like the stuff that being sprouted is putting together is really cool with saloon like there are projects that are going to be built on top of beanstalk hopefully in the near future that are just really cool and uh ultimately there's a lot of work so the work is what keeps us up in reality but uh you know just an exciting period of time so it's funny um i remember a number of maybe another number of months ago now i actually asked this that same question that canadian bennett just asked and in in one of these ants and so i was listening to hear what he had to say and then the answer was you know the the only thing that kept you up at night was or major major worries had to do with um you know potential um you know problems in code or or opportunities for exploitation or whatever and so when i think about you know how things have developed since then and also how your answer has changed since then i like i really appreciate that because i feel like the you know the things that have happened over the last you know even just over the last two months or so getting the amnesia audit information back making you know preparing for relevant changes like it seems like all of those things are kind of moving in tandem and everything seems to be moving in the right direction along with frankly a fantastic um peg maintenance since the end of january it does seem like all the pieces are moving pretty well yeah i mean with regards to the omnisha audit and maybe that's why we're not as worried about the code at the moment uh you know the hope is that they'll publish their public report in the next week or less we sent them the final commit a few days ago and they said it would be about a week or so from when we sent it to them and uh you know assuming all everything checks out which we haven't heard any issues from them since we sent it uh hopefully there will be a public report soon so uh that will facilitate the moving forward with the proposal to add the b3 curve port at the curve gauge and hopefully that's also gonna uh [Music] move things along towards silo generalization too so there's lots of interrelated uh pieces that are all moving together and uh all of them are uh individually exciting but when you take a step back and realize that there's a whole ecosystem that's slowly being created uh it's uh it's really it's wonderful completely agreed all right so ipo writes luna has been making reef or waves recently with recent announced bitcoin reserves in general how does bean compare to luna from both an ability to scale perspective and from its ability to generate returns for investors and let's say he made the modification basically how does it compare to luna slash usd so tara okay so this is a loaded question but we will try our best to answer it in full so the the most fundamental difference between terra and bean is that terra doesn't have any protocol native utility the yield on terra uh is from anchor primarily and we'll talk about anchor in a second but in the case of beans uh if you just own beans and you deposit them in the silo which is the protocol itself uh you can participate in the growth of the protocol and so whereas in the terra ecosystem the luna holders are the speculators and they they receive a hundred percent of the upside in the growth of the ecosystem in the terra supply uh in the case of beanstalk because you have the field where there's a lot more room for true speculation where you're not sure when you're gonna get paid back but there's uh eye-popping returns potentially and you also have the silo where there's protocol native utility for beans that's for the fundamental difference between uh beanstalk and terra lives and uh we would remark that the luna and terra system has worked remarkably well particularly because the marginal demand for each tara creates more market cap in luna if that makes sense because uh every dollar of demand for luna on the market actually creates more than a dollar worth of uh market cap for for luna and so what anchor has ultimately turned into and you look at how uh in various ways there have been major subsidies from luna holders to anchor protocol to basically create some sort of pretty inorganic demand for tara some sort of inorganic utility for terra where they can just participate in the yield that is subsidized from the lunar holders uh ultimately that has resulted in a a decent amount of product market fit at least in the short term but and this is kind of where things get a little bit for confusing for us uh as to what their strategy is ultimately it seems like as evidenced by the decision to propose changing the anchor yield to a variable rate based on the reserves that uh luna or or those that are responsible for governing that ecosystem are concerned about the growth of the the ecosystem further the demand for terra if it continues to grow and particularly demand for terra in anchor continues to grow that potentially presents a threat to the ecosystem or one can infer that based on their actions and fundamentally that's really interesting because from our perspective luna ortera is really the only other stablecoin protocol besides beanstalk to have a real solution to the collateral problem the ability to have luna float freely and have that serve as the collateral was really a major innovation from our perspective and the fact that both their backtracking on that totally luna-based collateral model and also concerned about the growth in demand for terra demonstrates the problem with fundamentally the model where there's no protocol native yield for terra itself and so when we if we just take a a little bit of a step to the side here and now think about how beanstalk works and how a stable yield protocol on beanstalk might work and this is something that beansprout is starting to work on and maybe if uh people have more questions about it we can even get manifold up here but the idea is because you have positive yield on your beans in reality if you were to offer something like a stable product on beans the equivalent of anchor for uh the luna ecosystem because if you assume that the the the deposits or the loans are denominated in beans the concept is effectively uh that the only thing that you really need to do is to match the person that wants a stable yield with the person that's willing to take the other side of that that the silo will yield more than whatever the stable yield is over the period of the loan and because the beans themselves actually have a yield associated with them it's not just that the yield for depositing comes from a subsidy from somewhere else there's actually much more of a natural financial market that can be built on top of beanstalk where there are fixed rate loans supported and things like that that's just one example of when you think about where you want what what protocols do you want to build your financial products on top of or even non-financial products on top of the concept of having positive yield associated with a stablecoin when you play it out in practice and and run it through how would this model work like anchor for example how would this model work in the case where you actually have a stablecoin with a positive yield things are really exciting and beansprout is doing a great job of developing some of those ideas and hopefully we're going to see over the next you know six months a couple different protocols launch on top of beanstalk that are leveraging this positive carry that's really good and uh and a really good explanation i feel like um i feel like i am learning more and more about tara and luna as we go along especially through these discussions and it is interesting to juxtapose the two knowing that you know that that two coin system is is seems to be the most successful of its type and yeah it's probably the probably the most legit or legitimately comparable system to what we have here but at the same time to your point seeing some of the um some of the some of the potential difficulties with that model and now seeing how how that team is starting to address them there's no doubt there's been immense value and product market fit for their ecosystem through anchor but by the same token the fact that growth is a problem that's a you know a classic indicator that there's some sort of uh fundamental limitation in the system all right next man i am gonna murder this name it's just i'm gonna say db d diebermeyer jr i apologize sorry about that um so the question is uh the current pod line is about 680 million instead of does that i'm sorry the current pod line is about 680 million does the market cap have to be at 1.36 billion to clear that line based on half um half of new beans produced going to the silo and half going to the field or how's the market cap correlated to the silo slash field so the you're generally in the right direction but would just clarify it to be a perfectly accurate sentence to say with the current pod line at 680 million the bean supply will have to be it's actually a little more than 1.36 billion because you have to factor in the current supply the bean supply will have to grow by 1.36 billion but because there's already a 40 million being supply give or take it's a little more than that the total bean supply or the market cap if beans were trading at exactly a dollar would have to be 1.4 billion to clear the end of the current pipeline so that's exactly right and the market cap or the it had has basically no effect on the distribution of new minted beans to the silo in the field uh anytime new beans are minted uh half of new bean mints go to the silo and half go to the field all right so i see publiuses mention about the bean logo from that we were talking about earlier and as we were talking about it earlier went through what went through my mind was i could see inside of deez bean's head at like one of the first meetings of the design team and him just sitting and thinking okay step one make bean logo look like bean which if anybody has seen the uh the uh the design material the design team has put out they've really put together a fantastic uh uh set of information that uh is gonna be a really useful tool as we go forward with with future branding so shout out to them nasdaq still likes the logo which is cool i admittedly i do too big fan of that yeah what okay so for what it's worth like what is i mean so the the green logo i mean i just was it i hate to get off track but what was the origin while i'm reading through these next set of questions you know man we basically it's funny right jesus was like you know whatever graphic designer you use to make the logo and we're like jeez what graphic design what are you talking about um and so you know without getting too specific we have a friend who went to art school like we're math nerds you know like how many art people do we know so we have a friend that went to art school and we harassed them to to help us you know figure out some logo so basically all of the all the logos the original logos for paws and stock uh and seeds and beans that was all they're doing basically we you know went through it and we harassed them to do a bunch of iterations they're like what can i put this on my portfolio and we were like uh no sorry so they just did us a solid but uh that's where it comes from that's great love it all right dumpling is up you wanna you wanna walk through your questions dumpling i thought i just yeah i just thought i'd read mine uh let's do it okay so i wanted to know when we're calculating like new bean prints off i know it from the last season's average um and like the deficit in the unit swap pool when we start to calculate it off of the curve pool and any other pools is it gonna um first off how do you anticipate those extra beans affecting volatility like do you expect us to dip uh below peg more often and to kind of be it seems like we've been hovering above peg you know most of the time now uh that's the first part of the question and the second part of the question is is that the sum of the two like the sum of the delta of the pools or is it average or how exactly is that going to gonna work so the answer ladder question because i think that will help frame the the former uh it'll be the cumulative sum of any of the minting pools so the delta b in the minting pools will just be summed and we'll start with two minting pools so you'll add them together um with regards to how it will affect the beam price and beam printing and volatility the key thing to highlight is that the minting will go live hand-in-hand with generalized convert and so our expectation is the market will become even more efficient although pretty recently it's become pretty efficient um sometimes you have some imbalances between curve and unit swap but the idea is you like there have been 100k access on curve from time to time over the past couple weeks or 200k you wouldn't really expect to see that as much because of the ability to convert into the curve pool as well straight from the silo and so you know wouldn't expect the minting to like go insane immediately that would not be our expectation um but at the same time uh you know there may be some slight acceleration in minding just because uh the the price difference in the curve pool can be really close to a dollar but still have a delta of you know 30k even or 50k so who knows in practice we'll have to see what you know what the market participants and converters ultimately do so but ultimately would expect it to further decrease volatility around the peg um yeah so covered both questions i think and do you expect that we'll spend more time under peg after this or do you think we'll kind of bop up and like expect it to start well that's really more of a function of like being stuck whether there's excess demand or not for beings and that that has less to do with the the mending schedule would be our perspective like over the past couple weeks the main reason from our perspective the price has been trading above the dollars because there's been excess demand for beans people buying and adding liquidity to both pools um in addition to sowing every season any available soil so that's where like there's very clearly excess demand for beans at the moment and that's why you have the price on average trading above a dollar but if that changed you know then that would not be the case so it has less to do with the mint now would expect somewhat less of downside volatility uh that's probably a reasonable thing to expect given all of the curve liquidity like there is you know three and a half million dollars worth of recurve at this point in the pool effectively and so there is a decent amount of convert power in that pool as well to maintain stability on the downside so we'll see but uh it'll be interesting to see how how it actually plays out in practice good stuff so um looking through the chat uh the weather just went uh finally below 6900 that's sick just saw that how about that and the other thing that maybe the last time oh man can you imagine the jokes are there though unfortunately the protocols are not francis uh nice pleasure anymore all right um oh so yeah so thank you mentioned in the chat beans do split while soaking to which sweet red said count on sync to know this i could not agree more again with this idea that sync is just sitting somewhere he's i feel like sync is the uh physical manifestation of those memes that you see on the discord every once in a while where like someone is like carrying around their giant brain like things just like that like just absorbing knowledge from all places and then talking about um talking about underlying value of nfts all right um looking down through the list okay so pf drake has the next question and um fundamental one um for those who are new publius can you explain the difference between collateralized stable coins and credit-based stable coins what is usually used as collateral and what are the advantages of a credit-based model sure so traditional stable coins whether that's usdc tether your classic first generation stable coins they use off chain collateral and they basically claim for every dollar or every stable coin they issue on chain they hold a dollar worth of value uh in a bank account somewhere now uh in that case you have two problems one it's really hard to hold a hundred billion or a trillion dollars in a bank account uh and b is centralized uh because you need someone to actually hold all that money and issue the stable points then you have second generation stable coins which use on-chain collateral something like dye or you know we would consider mim a second generation stable coin as well and the general idea there is to use on-chain collateral uh in order to issue stable coins where the protocol maintains at least a dollar worth of value for each dollar of stable coins it issues now uh dye uses usdc as collateral and uh therefore it also has some centralization to it mim has a much more decentralized uh collateral set and so it doesn't have as much of a centralization problem but it still has a supply problem which is it's really hard to accrue 100 billion or a trillion dollars of assets into a smart contract uh on youth mainnet in order to issue enough stable coins to meet demand and in short the problem with collateralized stable coins even though a lot of them have strong peg maintenance models manifests itself in high borrowing costs so because you have excess demand and supply can't meet demand even though the price stays the same the excess demand results in high borrowing costs on stable points and high borrowing cost makes using stable coins for lots of stuff really impractical because if you think about it well i could do this or i could do that with my stable coin and at the end of the day if one of those things that you can do is passively earn ten percent by just lending out your stable fund there's not a lot that you're gonna wanna do with your stablecoin and so in short the the collateral shortage manifests itself in lots of cool stuff in d5 that you might potentially be able to do become economically inefficient uh or very hard to justify actually doing in practice and so that's where the idea to say well what if we can get rid of the reliance on collateral or remove the collateral supply issue and in the case of credit uh again we talked a little bit about how luna works and the fact that they have figured out a way around the collateral problem by allowing the value of luna itself to float which is a protocol native asset and then using luna as the collateral to back terra but again there's no shortage of supply because the marquee cap of luna can grow in theory infinitely the problem with that model is that the because all of the upside in the system goes towards uh supporting the growth of the collateral base uh you know which in theory supports the stability of the stable coin which is great uh it takes away from the ability to have some sort of stable coin protocol native yield uh or protocol native utility and that creates uh some some inefficiencies in and of itself and so when you switch to a credit-based model that allows for a lot more flexibility both in terms of you're totally untethered by the available collateral because you're just using the credit of your system and you can issue as many beans as you want totally independent of the available collateral the only limitation to the amount of beans bean stuff will issue is demand for beans itself but then the other advantage is that because you don't have this opportunity cost associated with locking up all this money in a bank account or a smart contract and you combine the fact that there's some protocol native yield associated with beans you have a really competitive product market fit stable coin i guess it's not a product market fits difficult it's a stable with product market fit um and that's what we're starting to see with the silo and the continued generalization of the silo is going to really facilitate the demonstration of product market fit for a credit-based stablecoin which again the switch to credit really is what facilitates that positive carry from a protocol native perspective really good i appreciate the walk through it's funny you know when when i see questions like that you know i it always gives me an opportunity to pause and think yeah you know there are probably folks that are either either here in the audience or potentially listening to this in the future that may not have had that you know that component talk through or that you know this this comparison so really really good stuff and uh yes so i did skip mod and i do definitely do apologize it was a mistake on my part um and actually i hit him in the chat too to apologize to so we'll get i'll get mod right now so mod's question is is bip 14 a quick fix and we're still rethinking the model or do you think this is good enough for now in in other words how the model is or how the protocol is reassessing um weather changes over time well one of the philosophies we live by is good better best meaning things are good hopefully you know you can make them good the goal is to always try to make them better in a continuous way to get to a place where it's the best it can be but recognizing it's probably never possible to actually you know get to whatever the best is so you're always trying to get better and in the case of the demand for soil this would be one case where on the one hand it's probably not the best system we that possibly exists but at the same time where where what the you know the the demand for soil changes present is a really substantive improvement to the system so in short it's unclear whether that will be the final iteration for demand for soil whether it's sufficiently uh good at measuring change in demand for soil whether uh the the model can be further refined uh that is an open question and to say things are done and final is probably not appropriate at this time uh with regards to much about the protocol uh but but at the same time uh you know that's uh we think that 14 uh you know the soil changes is going to be a really substantive step towards improving the system so the idea is to make hopefully make the change we'll propose the change hopefully the dow will approve it and uh once that happens we'll see how how the system responds but we think this will be a really substantive improvement to the current system all right and sorry about that a second ago i said weather when i met say soil um so next oh um so eriel asks question can we get a bit more detail on the bean sprout initiatives on the docket and i guess i'll throw that out too i see mr manifold um mr manful would you be willing to hop up for just a second and give us a quick overview what would you guys have brewing yeah totally um hey everyone so you know i guess i'll i'll talk about the saloon just because um you know that was brought up earlier during this uh class um so you know high level like you know we've definitely observed like real product market fit with anchor into tara's ecosystem um and we obviously think that has a large that's in large part due to you know really competitive attractive fixed yields and you know whether these fixed yields are sustainable or not is a different story but started putting our heads together on you know what we can do at being stock to offer also offer a fixed yield product um and so you know we've been going through some exercises and various models in the past few weeks um and we think we're king on some keying in on something that's actually really interesting um for a few reasons one is we think it has the potential to offer the highest fixed interest stable coin rate in d5 another really interesting reason we like it is we think it's also sustainable um and a third really interesting reason we like it is um you know we think it has the ability to capture a different you know subset or demographic call it retail call it you know just capital that's looking for you know some type of fixed rate that they can count on versus you know diving into the details and nerding out with us in class over stock and seeds and you know the nuances of the native pro bean stock protocol um and so you know we're still refining the idea but we're really excited about it um and so that's you know one of the primary use cases for saloon is to uh offer that fixed income product for depositors um you know a little bit of a tidbit on you know where we might see the saloon token itself going um is effectively you know a third way to bet on beanstalk you know right now you have you know the field you have the silo uh which are terrific um but we think we can kind of expand um on ways to bet uh on the growth of the protocol and the salute token would hopefully capture that um you know going one more step further on that thought you know we we view the importance of stock growing fairly quickly um in the coming months as crypto in general wakes up to the advantages of parking liquidity within the silo um and so you know we think the saloon could potentially also you know with its with its reserved and deposits be positioned to have a significant influence on stock and on governance of the protocol um and so you know those are all things that could potentially drive the value of the salute token um as you know protocols participants and whatnot um you know one to drive influence within the silo so you know hopefully that's um interesting um definitely still have a lot to do um and a lot of steps to put together but uh yeah we're really excited about it we're working hard on it you had me at um fixed income and highest yield in d5 those are two pretty compelling compelling characteristics yeah rex we we we think so too um we're really excited about the direction um and you know it's it's fun because we know we have such an amazing community we can count on too to spread the word so it makes our jobs a lot easier hey sorry can i just ask a follow-up question absolutely so just so i'm clear so the saloon this is like an incubated product or is this an existing product that would be integrated within beanstalk yeah so it's it's a uh it's i guess you can call it a incubated product it's a standalone protocol outside of feedstock that is leveraging the silo and and some other components of beanstalk that's awesome thanks appreciate it yeah for sure thank you mr manifold appreciate it anytime guys all right next question on the list ipo and chill so with with the with the uh the deep philosophy mixed with with the wrap reference drake decides to enter the silo for 10 million or kanye guarantees to talk about being positively every week but doesn't put any money in which do we take publius well this is a fun question so we'll take it lightly uh you know if you had asked us a couple months ago when the peg maintenance was pretty weak we we we'd have had to accepted drake's capital but i think uh the community knows at this point where our allegiance lies in that i guess now uh settled beef so uh the kanye bean discussion would probably uh you know be more fulfilling than the the capital investment from drake although uh you know hard to hard to complain about either case uh and uh you know shout out ipo for the fun question indeed it's funny um i know that farmer dan was talking with um a group of clothing designers here over the last week about you know just some ideas they were throwing around and they were talking about customized shoes can't imagine can't imagine having yeezys with uh with beanstalk vines hand painted on be pretty awesome all right so next question from our um so ours says i see oh mentioned here frequently has there been any been any collaboration with that team in fact see a couple of of the homies and wag me uh capital people here uh in class which is cool uh over the past two weeks or so there's definitely been a noticeable uptick in uh interest from the own community and beanstalk and inflow into the discord and they're very active which is fabulous and they're the be in stock farms biz dev team has been talking with the omis about a couple different potential uh integrations where ohm could issue bean bonds and start accruing being in their treasury and then potentially deposit those assets in the silo there's also a discussion about uh having been included in uh one of the one of the pools on rarity so one of the raw refuse pools uh that oh manages uh and you know there's a couple other places where ohm seems to and the own community seems to be really interested in being high leverage additions to the beanstalk community and so uh you know maybe that would be a thing that they would like to talk about themselves more but very excited to have you know a lot of the homies taking an interest in beanstalk and uh you know ohm taking bean into their treasure would obviously be pretty cool that may be something we could facilitate in the future too and i know i know that we're talking with we've had a number of discussions with different groups and i know we've done some twitter spaces with different folks so maybe that that might be a an option that we could look into all right next question from pf drake would there be an opportunity for an opportunity for beanstalk to buy out any of the developing stable coins or in turn be bought out itself so don't think that a buy out in the traditional sense applies here for a couple different reasons but most notably because beanstalk is uninhibited by the available collateral and because it can mint an arbitrary amount of beans it really is a positive sum participant in the ecosystem and so one of the things that beanstalk farms is working on in the immediate future is trying to attract some of the uh lusd from the lusd stability pool ahead of the halving in their uh liquidity rewards that is occurring on april 5th and so beanstalk farms intends to deploy a being lusd curve pool and proposed a bit to whitelist that pool in the silo to offer beanstalk native rewards for lusd holders and that's a perfect example to where uh beanstalk is now creating yield opportunities for other protocols for providing liquidity for bean and that becomes a very uh positive feedback loop where now beanstalk is now supporting other protocols and providing liquidity that benefits those protocols and also benefits beans and beanstalk and so that's where the fact that there's no collateral and there's no shortage of beans but the positive carry really starts to manifest itself in in a million different places and hopefully over the next couple of weeks and months as the silo uh continues to be generalized to support yield from other protocols and the generalized bean farm goes live such that you'll be able to interact with other protocols via beanstalk uh it's gonna become easier and easier for other d5 users that don't even have beams currently to start participating in beanstalk native yield and uh adding value to the beanstalk ecosystem so it's not a negative sum game where the goal is to buy out other stable coins basically at all it's funny is uh as you're talking i was thinking about pf's question and thinking about some some of my past experiences with buyouts and uh having been on the buying side of of buyouts usually you know when when i've been part of those discussions they've been around and you're either buying you're buying revenue for cash flow assets for value or functionality and when i think through those three pieces i feel like beanstalk is in a place where each of those three components there is you know is either fundamental to the protocol in terms of its its ability to increase and grow or there is a group of people actively working to address those items so it's a really exciting place to be because you can see the growth without the necessity to acquire yes uh the growth can certainly be described as organic which is cool yep it's not it's not going to be artificial or subsidized it's truly like a market-based uh organic growth all right let's love for sync in the chat scrolling down canadian bennett has a follow-up question to dumpling um will any or all bean lp tokens that are in the silo be part of the minting schedule um and give something short answers no so assets that are whitelisted in the silo are it's totally independent from what pools are included in the minting there obviously will be some overlap but they're totally independent decisions and our expectation would be that the pools that are uh used fermenting are restricted to stable coins uh or or really strong uh price uh sources for a dollar or whatever assets beans are pegged to so uh less inclined to start just using like random assets and pools to mint and really keep it restricted and recognizing that with the generalized convert live there should be a pretty efficient market such that uh if you have enough minting pools with enough liquidity in the minting pools uh you know it shouldn't be really an issue in terms of being stock responding too slowly all right good stuff i'm so scrolling down through a little bit further i realized we're getting close to a half hour and it does look like we are getting getting down towards the bottom of the questions so um farmer joe's being emporium always a favorite um not sure if i missed this but when will the convert be available for bean to bean three curve within the silo that'll happen at the same time generalized minton goes live which we hope to have you know be able to propose in less than a month or so so four weeks or you know that's a rough rough target good info okay dumpling showing some sync love sweet red shawn love the mr manifold again yeah can't tell you how much i appreciate mr manifold and the work that that group is doing really really interesting stuff um makes you think of some of the discussions we're having even around the metaverse in utility of bean um all right next question and i don't think i missed anybody next question is from jdubs um so question is what downsides or hang-ups do you see of retailers accepting bean as a form of payment [Music] the three that stand out are the bean is still not the most stable asset or liquid asset uh two that each gas fees are incredibly expensive and b it's not on any altitudes at the moment and three crypto payment rails still aren't the smoothest that that probably is the one that's most solved at the moment um but you know those would be the things that stand out at the moment but we'll get there indeed all right so it looks like it's the last question in the chat unless i missed something and again anybody can call me out if i did it's from snaked and the question is what does publish think of andre cronier if i'm pronouncing that right uh respectfully have basically no thoughts about them i am with you just simply on the fact that i recognize the name yeah they're uh they've done a bunch of stuff with uh urine and uh phantom so lots of stuff all right okay looking like we are oh j dubs that's a really that's a really good question we're 29 um i always want to open it for at least just second um before we go but j dubs asked a really good question on a lighter note was there another pseudonym that is considered short answer is no because the starting point was that we had the epitaph the quote at the top of the page at the top of the white paper uh that was like something that we had in mind from the very beginning and then when we were thinking about the pseudonym once we thought of publius like in the fact that it lined up with the epitaph it was like too good so there wasn't really any any second choice once once that came to mind [Music] good stuff that's a that's a really it's a really good question jadebs one uh i wish i thought of myself um all right so we're at 30 but i do want to just give one more opportunity for anybody anybody in the crowd to either throw one last question into the chat discussion or to hop up on stage always more than welcome and ask a question before we go all right hearing none um so one oh these just got up go ahead these hey rex yeah uh sorry just a quick announcement then before we wrap up um also a question for the community um yeah so we're as we're kind of finishing out the uh website redesign we wanted to do some some user testing and so if there's anyone here in the crowd that's that's new to beanstalk preferably you haven't done any transactions yet you've been in the discord uh or you're pretty new to this discord yeah and you'd like to kind of help us out and see some things as far as um some of our new user flows we'd love to to have you in and trial the flows so uh yeah just shoot me in the dms and uh uh yeah we can get you started thank you so much these would you take referrals from like you know let's say that i had like a friend that i knew would give good feedback but you know if i said to them you know hey let's do this thing for beanstalk they would say what is beanstalk is that an acceptable um in type of individual to reach out to as well preferably we either want them to know what d5 protocols are or um you know if they've participated in one d5 protocol that'd be great but if this is also kind of their like they're interested in d5 and this is their first time getting into d5 uh those would be great individuals as well so great questioning and uh we absolutely took recommendations fair enough all right well since we're a little bit over um we'll start to let everybody go with one last mention if you want to hear publius and i talk more you can actually now find us on uh an array of podcast platforms um the the pod the first episode of the bead pod which is the beanstalk farms podcast uh first episode dropped earlier today and uh yes you can find that pretty much anywhere that you'd get your podcasts and more episodes to come with that and more good stuff to come in general here on the farm so um publius will hand it over to you anything to to say as we part would uh would just say that there's a lot of stuff happening at the moment and if you want to be a part of it and you're not currently a part of it just make it known and there's definitely stuff for you to do because there's so much going on so people are bringing their unique skill sets and perspectives to be in stock farms and uh everyone's lots of cool stuff going on and uh yeah this is just i mean it's crazy right the system's over 50 million tvl now so uh it's all it's all very exciting and uh you know thank you everyone for coming [Music] yep thanks everybody for your time have a good you