- How does the Convert functionality work?
- How would Bean gauge work?
- Wen generalized minting/Silo?
- Will CRV liquidity data be added to the subgraph so that the analytics can be updated?
- If demand for Soil stays high, will the Pod Line will not decrease in length? Of course Pods would be harvesting at the front, and the Pod Rate is the important metric to see decreasing as the Bean supply increases.
- Could you outline how the composability aspects of the protocol will look in the future once other whitelisted tokens are allowed into the Silo? More precisely:
- Does gauge mean other protocols will pay Bean holders to provide liquidity for their tokens?
- We all know Beanstalk is an experiment, will Beanstalk ever not be an experiment? if so when would we know?
- Question: given it will likely be some time before ownership of Beanstalk is ready to be transferred to the null address, thoughts on adding additional people to the ownership multisig in the interim, to increase decentralization?
- Basic question: when I buy pods from ETH, does that ETH buy BEAN from the ETH:BEAN liquidity pool and then burns those beans?
- Thoughts on continuing to sell soil when available soil is 0 in a currency other than Bean. POL not to maintain peg but to measure demand for soil and avoid inorganic demand for Bean.
- Do you see bean as THE dominant or a dominant stablecoin. I ask because as time develops we could easily see governments like the US developing their own stable coin supported by the Fed and while that is far from the narrative of decentralization, it might provide more safety to institutions seeking an asset pegged to USD.
- How long until $BEAN becomes the standard global currency?
- Question (for the end after the substantive questions are done): who has the best discord username that uses ‘bean’?
- Does Publius have any new thoughts on the Beanstalk DEX? The last time they talked about this, I know they were still playing the idea, just wondering if they have any new thoughts.
- Does the beanstalk DEX mean you’ll be able to trade from stablecoin (bean) to Eth and back, tax free? Such that not trading in the Beanstalk DEX is inefficient, possibly to the tune of 50%.
- In this edition of Beanstalk A&T, we cover topics like:
- The generalized Silo and minting
- Should Beanstalk have a treasury? (no)
- Decentralization of the Beanstalk contract ownership
- What a Beanstalk-native DEX would look like
- and more...
- Snapshots up! For funding, hiring, etc
- New podcast coming out, first episode with Publius and Rex. Stay tuned
How does the Convert functionality work?
- When P > 1, you can convert your Deposited Beans into BEAN/ETH LP tokens, without burning your Stalk in the process. And you get additional Seeds.
- When P < 1, you can convert your LP tokens to Deposited Beans (capitalizing on the opportunity to buy Beans when P < 1). You’ll burn some Seeds in the process.
- This will be possible with the Curve LP when generalized Bean Farm is complete (BIP soon)
How would Bean gauge work?
- It would make it much easier to add tokens to the Silo whitelist, rather than doing so via BIP
Wen generalized minting/Silo?
- The only pool that determines the minting of Beans/Soil right now is the BEAN/ETH Uniswap pool.
- hopefully Omniscia will have their audit report done in the next week or so, which will help with Beanstalk getting approved to be part of the Curve gauge
- after that it will make sense to get the generalized Silo/minting BIP over the finish line, hopefully in the next month
- It will be great to have a public audit report out there, along with the fact that the contracts have been out in the wild for 7 months.
- This will ship at the same time as generalized Convert functionality
- Hopefully this will all happen in the next 4-6 weeks or so
Will CRV liquidity data be added to the subgraph so that the analytics can be updated?
- The middleware team is working on it, along with an open source SDK for building on top of Beanstalk
- Upgrading a subgraph is a pain and expensive so we’re hesitant to push upgrades constantly, so it’ll likely come with a larger upgrade
- Hopefully in the next 2-3 weeks
If demand for Soil stays high, will the Pod Line will not decrease in length? Of course Pods would be harvesting at the front, and the Pod Rate is the important metric to see decreasing as the Bean supply increases.
- BIP-9 made a substantive change to Soil issuance
- let’s say 10,000 Pods harvest — over the next Season, based on the current Weather, Beanstalk is willing to ming up to 10,000 Pods
- The length of the Pod Line stays fixed and the Bean supply starts to grow. This means the Pod Rate (debt level) comes down
- We would argue that the Pod Rate is the main indicator of the health of a credit based system
Could you outline how the composability aspects of the protocol will look in the future once other whitelisted tokens are allowed into the Silo? More precisely:
- 1.a) If we have a whitelisted token, (e.g. gOHM) that itself pays out rewards on a regular basis, how are rewards in Beans calculated?
- The amount of Stalk and Seeds you earn is basically earned at the time of deposit, but you earn Grown Stalk and that grows continuously. When P > 1, you’ll earn Bean seignorage and that is calculated based on your Stalk ownership
- 1b) Are the bean rewards from 1.a above withdrawable without penalty?
- Yes, only the Stalk and Seed are burned upon Withdrawal
- 2) If the 'experiment' fails and Beanstalk is no longer a going concern due to lack of uptake or some other reason (aside from smart contract failure) are our non-Bean/stalk assets in the silo returnable?
- If Beans de-peg due to some smart contract vulnerability or something like that, all those assets would be drained, and there wouldn’t be any liquidity. If the experiment failed, all of the assets would be worthless (like an LP token that represents assets in a Bean traded pool)
- The tokens in the Silo would be LP tokens containing Beans, because that’s what the Beanstalk DAO would vote for
- 3) A lot of people in DeFi have mixed views on 'insurance' providers that have popped up in the DeFi space over the last couple of years? Does the protocol have an official view? An unofficial view....
- Insurance would actually hurt the protocol, in the same way that if Beanstalk had a treasury, like something backing the protocol. Then ultimately the credit isn’t the thing that people have faith in. Hiding behind a treasury, or something like the Luna Foundation Guard, would be counter to the credit mechanism.
- It would be impossible to insure Beanstalk when it gets to billions anyway
Does gauge mean other protocols will pay Bean holders to provide liquidity for their tokens?
- The Beanstalk gauge will be a system through which Stalk holders will vote on whether to allow assets to be deposited in the Silo or not and how much Stalk and Seeds that token should get by Bean Denominated Value
- These additions to the whitelist would not require BIP like they do today
We all know Beanstalk is an experiment, will Beanstalk ever not be an experiment? if so when would we know?
- That’s an impossible question to answer!
- No money has really lasted as the dominant money for more than 100 years and Beanstalk is really an experiment in money 🙂
Question: given it will likely be some time before ownership of Beanstalk is ready to be transferred to the null address, thoughts on adding additional people to the ownership multisig in the interim, to increase decentralization?
- Don’t have a strong opinion one way or the other
- Currently a 3 signature wallet held on hardware wallets in different places
- If the community felt this was important to happen in the short term, this could be done
Basic question: when I buy pods from ETH, does that ETH buy BEAN from the ETH:BEAN liquidity pool and then burns those beans?
- Yes, you are buying Beans off the market and lending them to Beanstalk. Then Beanstalk removes them from the supply by sending to the null address
Thoughts on continuing to sell soil when available soil is 0 in a currency other than Bean. POL not to maintain peg but to measure demand for soil and avoid inorganic demand for Bean.
- Given that your issuing debt, you’d rather have that debt turn into demand for Beans
- Even if there’s excess demand for Soil and P > 1, due to converts and arbs and SOP, we think that inorganic is handled fairly well
- We think this would be suboptimal
Do you see bean as THE dominant or a dominant stablecoin. I ask because as time develops we could easily see governments like the US developing their own stable coin supported by the Fed and while that is far from the narrative of decentralization, it might provide more safety to institutions seeking an asset pegged to USD.
- If you consider the case where a government issues a Fed Coin, there’s likely to be a lot of them. But if you think of DeFi and its importance as decentralized, open-source technology, we don’t think Fed Coin really has a place in that world.
How long until $BEAN becomes the standard global currency?
- It’s more about enjoying the process!
Question (for the end after the substantive questions are done): who has the best discord username that uses ‘bean’?
Does Publius have any new thoughts on the Beanstalk DEX? The last time they talked about this, I know they were still playing the idea, just wondering if they have any new thoughts.
- What is the Beanstalk DEX: The main thing that is difficult to do as a DEX is to attract liquidity. The Silo naturally attracts liquidity because of the seignorage you can earn. Thus Beanstalk could one day support its own native exchange with zero trading fees.
- But no “updates” on this per se
Does the beanstalk DEX mean you’ll be able to trade from stablecoin (bean) to Eth and back, tax free? Such that not trading in the Beanstalk DEX is inefficient, possibly to the tune of 50%.
- Not tax advice! But in theory if the tokens don’t hit your wallet you don’t trigger capital gains
okay so uh to give a little bit of context uh dumpling was specifically asking uh because we were talking with the own community a little bit and they were interested in potentially uh creating a g geom bean pool and then uh proposing a bip to add that pool or the lp tokens for that pool to the silo which is pretty cool and dumpling who's uh a self uh confessed omi was saying well so how would it work for me as someone who has beans in the silo and has geom and would want to potentially add liquidity to this uh white listed token or lp token this liquidity pool without burning my stock and so uh one thing that might not be made clear and we apologize that the ux doesn't currently do a good enough job of making this super clear that you can do this but for the being east pool uh you can effectively uh add there's two ways to convert one is the bip seven convert which everyone should you is probably more more likely to be familiar with where when the price is too high you can convert deposited beans to deposited lp tokens without forfeiting any stock so you're in practice selling beans and lowering the price so anytime the price is too high you can convert your beans into lp tokens gain more seeds start accruing more stock um without burning any of your stock for making that conversion and then vice versa or similarly maybe is a better way to say it when the price is too low uh you can convert your deposited lp tokens into deposited beans without obviously you have to burn the extra steeds but you don't have to burn uh basically any stock uh the change in stock is actually uh there's a slight change based on the change in the value of the lp token since you did it but the idea is you don't lose any of the grown stock or the stock from seeds that you've received for your time in the silo and so in practice what that allows you to do is to potentially buy beans in effect when the price is too low by converting your lp tokens to deposited beans uh without any loss of stock so that's bip seven convert now the other convert that uh dumpling was asking about was uh currently if you have ethereum that's circulating in your wallet uh and then you have deposited beans you can actually convert your deposited beans into deposited lp tokens by adding additional eath so it's not a convert where you're selling it's a convert such that you're adding the equivalent amount of ethereum uh to match your beans based on the current ratio of beans to ethereum in the pool and there's no loss of stock associated with that convert either and that was the convert that was there originally but it seems to have been gotten lost in the in the fray a little bit and so wanted to just highlight that when the generalized uh bean farm is complete such that you'll be able to seamlessly uh interoperate with various assets and protocols across d5 you'll be able to effectively convert your other assets into lp to match your deposited beans and when we talk about product market fit everyone that has lots of deposited beans in the silo those beans are going to be really attractive to other protocols to try to get those those beans into liquidity pools providing liquidity uh to their assets and so om may be hopefully the first of many different protocols that are going to be interested in attracting the beans that are in the silo to providing liquidity for their tokens and the very the two different converts are designed to make that uh as simple and uh clean as possible from a ux perspective obviously we could do a better job of displaying it and making it clear but that's the good thing is there's a whole ux team now that's working on revamping the whole user experience and interacting with the protocol to hopefully make everything much more clear and that will that will obviously go a long way and then i just saw a comment come in about the being gauge from being profit and that's totally right one of the main goals uh of moving to a gauge system for uh stock rewards is specifically to minimize the amount of friction necessary to have different pools added uh to this stock system such that you don't necessarily need a whole dip the goal is to make it a little bit simpler for different protocols to propose adding various uh tokens lp tokens and other assets to the silo so uh just wanted to make a note on that because that's a particularly pressing comment there from bean profit good stuff first of all want to shout out to the omis i feel like we have over the last just over the last week or so the om community started to take a lot of notice we've been having some really great discussions with with folks in that community in the discord so excited to have them you know interacting with our group interacting with the protocol super exciting um police do you want to is there anything you want to talk more about when it comes to the generalized silo at this moment i know that you that everybody's still in in a planning mode is there anything else you want to cover since we since you just kind of touched on it quickly well to expand a little bit uh and there hasn't been too much of an update uh on the development side other than uh you know development is is is happening as fast as possible over the past week it's taken a little bit of a back seat to uh working closely to with omnisha to finalize uh things so that hopefully in the next week or so maybe maybe yeah a week is hopefully a decent guess we can get a public report from omnisha which would then facilitate uh the gauge proposal going forward on curve and uh because that was kind of the main hold up on the curve gage proposal there was a comment uh on the proposal basically saying well uh don't you think you should wait till there's a at least a few public audits and i think one is reasonable and so the idea is to to we've been really focusing on getting that uh ready to go as quickly as possible so uh once that's done uh then we'll hopefully be able to turn our attention to finalizing the next stages uh of the generalized silo which goes hand in hand with uh the curve gauge proposal obviously because currently uh there aren't really any opportunities to add interest from other protocols or yield from other protocols uh for beanstalk related assets but the addition of the bm3 curve lp tokens to the gauge would would be the first instance really of interest from another protocol potentially assuming that some gauge was allocated to the pool and that is when it makes sense to uh to move forward with the next silo generalization dip which will facilitate the distribution of rewards from other yield from other protocols to silo members based on their specific deposits and so that you know there's the reason to prioritize the initial audit is because until the initial audit goes live uh we don't really want to move ahead with the curve gauge proposal and therefore there's no real reason to push ahead with the silo generalization so people were asking when's generalized minting coming uh when's when's the next stages of generalized convert uh and the next stages of the generalized silo those are all hopefully going to happen in the next month or so but uh you know the past week and the next week are really focused on just getting uh the audit ready for and the code ready for the release of the public audit which is very exciting so uh that's that's a little bit of an update on the silo but obviously then gave a slightly related update to the initial audit which is maybe why the the current silo bib uh hasn't been been released just yet that's uh that's great information frankly i'm admittedly i don't know if i'm as excited about the amnesia but i i am excited about it because it'll be um an excellent tool as we kind of navigate this process of showing the amount of the amount of of underlying work and let's say safety and security of the protocol itself and i know that we're getting in a lot of a lot of discussions on twitter and other platforms you know about um whether or not there's you know some type of issue lingering or you know everyone's always asking the question you know with with this kind of of percentage yields for things like pods like is this a rug and so to be able to turn around and say well you can look at our audit and you can look at the open source of the code you tell me that makes me really excited i feel like that's going to be a really powerful tool both with other groups we're looking to partner with and with the public in general yeah and transparency is the name of the game and so getting you know while we've had the content from omnisha for a couple weeks and have been starting to make the changes necessary that they've requested uh you know and in our opinion none of them have been uh too serious such that it's like you know cause for a pause or any real scare nonetheless in the spirit of transparency it'll be a huge deal to get a public report out there and uh you know given that beanstalk has been alive for a little over seven months there is reason to feel good about its resilience out in the wild but nonetheless getting that uh you know public stamp of approval from a reputable audit firm is uh a big step in the right direction and does mean things in the context of other integrations across d5 completely agreed all right so we've got a ton of really good questions in the class discussion we will do our best to get to them all i'm going to start so austin dropped some stuff in a little earlier on this afternoon um i think so we talked about generalized minting or no no we didn't talk about generalizability we talked about the generalized silo you want to talk about generalized minting quick sure so the the generalized minting is one of the upgrades to beanstalk it's not exactly an upgrade to the silo in the sense that uh not every uh asset that's whitelisted to be in the silo has to be included in the minting and vice versa not necessarily every minting pool has to have an lp token that's whitelisted for the silo so it's not technically a part of the silo upgrades but it is part of the upgrade to generalizing beanstalk and when you think about how beanstalk currently works from a peg maintenance perspective the only pool that determines the minting of beans and the minting of soil is the bean eath eunice swap pool and specifically uh as it compares to the usdc una swap pool now there's a lot of liquidity and volume now in the beam three curve pool and given that three curve uh functions as a decentralized uh you know is in a similar way that beanstalk can determine the price of a dollar by comparing the bean eath una swap pool to the usdc east unit swap pool beanstalk can use the three pool and the virtual price of the three pool to infer the value of three curve relative to a dollar uh and therefore can infer the value of beans relative to a dollar and by using a similar logic can effectively start to mint beans not based just on the bean ethereum swap pool but on other pools and so the generalization to the minting will start with the bean three curve pool but will uh will be potentially expandable to other assets as well or other pools as well now it's important to note that convert which we were just talking about before is currently only supported for uh the being eat unison pool and while bip7 convert has had a really meaningful impact on peg maintenance we think it doesn't especially because of that it would be a bad idea to have generalized minting in a pool where a pool is supported fermenting where you don't also have conversions in that pool and so the idea is to have generalized minting and generalized conversions happen in the same bip and that's also hopefully going to happen in the next uh four to six weeks or so right thanks for that okay um next question from austin so how's progress coming along for adding c crv liquidity data to the sub graph so the short answer is not sure if eth wallet is here but eth maybe you can call it if eth wallets here or thunderbroker is here maybe they want to hop up and chat a little bit about how the sdk development is going uh but in short uh beanstalk farms has a whole middleware team that's working on upgrading uh and basically developing an open source sdk uh to support really easy development for other people to start to integrate and build on top of beanstalk now that sdk is going to involve both an upgrade to the [Music] to the sub graph and also a wide variety of non-subgraph related stuff because ultimately let's say the decentralized graph network is down the sdk ultimately needs to be able to process things even without the sub graph and so a lot of that development is happening in tandem so the other thing to note is when you upgrade a subgraph it's pretty expensive and it's kind of a pain in the butt because uh all of the indexers have to re-index the entire history of the protocol basically and so we're a little bit hesitant to just constantly push upgrades to the sub graph but the short answer is development to the subgraph is happening uh and development to an overall middleware suite is also happening and uh you know you'll start to see a lot of those uh results hopefully in the next two to three weeks i would say and yeah just to touch that a little bit more you know we've been working with eath wallet to get um you know kind of a minimal upgradeable product for the bean sub graph specifically to fix issues like you're saying where you know the price and liquidity is not being accounted for um and you know really hoping to get that up as soon as possible and you know the majority of the code is in place all right good stuff next um i will try i'll read through this relatively quickly so um austin's last question his group it has it's someone around um bip9 so reading the questions section basically uh someone asked um let's see [Music] so based on the information of bip9 so beanstalk being really willing to dissu or to issue um bean sauce willing to issue debt every season to mince soil every season without increasing the number of unharvestable pods during periods of access to major soil beanstalk will issue at most same number of pods for each season as became harvestable in this at the start of the season so bip9 um does this mean if demand for soil stays high the pod line will not decrease in size of course i mean the pods would be harvesting it at the front but the pod rate is important an important metric to see decreasing as bean supply increases yeah so specifically that's and just to summarize because i think for newcomers it would have been really hard to follow you there rex um bip9 made some changes to the amount of available soil particularly in the instances where there was excess demand for soil every season so beanstalk in order to properly adjust the weather looks at the the price the debt level and the change in demand for soil over the previous two seasons in order to look at the change in demand for soil bean stock needs to offer some amount of soil every season and accordingly the question is well how much soil should be offered back in november when beanstalk went through its last growth cycle prior to the past couple weeks there was way too much soil available even when there was uh the price was above one and there was no reason for beanstalk to attract credit other than just to measure demand for soil beanstalk was still issuing like 30 000 soil a season or something because it was a a percentage of the total bean supply now bip9 made a really substantive change such that uh when you have seasons where the price is really high and there's excess demand for soil in practice what happens is as follows uh let's say at the start of the season 10 000 pods harvest but over the next season the most beans being excuse me the most pods being stuck is willing to issue based on the current weather is 10 000 pods so over the course of the season the total number of pods should basically remain fixed now what that means is the total pod line the length of a pod line will stay the same length while the pod line starts to churn and the bean supply starts to grow now as the bean supply starts to grow and the amount of debt stays constant the debt level of the system comes down and so we would argue excuse me about that we would argue that the the debt level the pod rate is one of the main indicators of the health of a credit-based system and the current soil parameters make it such that the pod line can churn while it remains the same length while the pod line starts to decrease and if you look at uh over the past couple of uh days uh the pod line has basically remained flat or more or less flat while the pod rate has started to come down really significantly and so that's an indicator that the new soil parameters as structured by bip9 are having a really meaningful effect on beanstalk's health during this growth cycle all right so um next question and it's a it's a small group of them from series 13 i will again i'll do my best to do them justice without just reading them really really fast so sirius says good evening few questions could you please outline how the composability aspect of the protocol will look in the future once other white listed tokens are allowed into the silo more specifically 1a if we have white listed tokens such as geom that itself pays out rewards on a regular basis how are those rewards and beans calculated so the amount of stock just this is the way basically rewards work in a generalized way the amount of stock that you receive for depositing let's say a g ohm b and lp token is based on the beam denominated value of the lp token at the time you deposit the lp toke now uh even if the geom increases or decreases in value the amount of stock you you have earned on top of that asset is is effectively earned at the time you deposit it now in short you start to receive grown stock from the seeds for that deposited asset so the amount of stock you have grows continuously now on top of that let's say the bean price is above one over different periods of time while you have that asset deposited in the silo and own stock you will earn bean seniority those beans are immediately deposited uh in the silo the rewards and beans are calculated based on your stock ownership as it compares to the total stock ownership so let's say you have point one percent of the bean supply if the bean supply increases ten thousand beans you're entitled to ten beans those beans are immediately deposited in the silo and earn 10 stock um and so your uh you your beings start to earn compounding interest that's basically how it works does that make sense and to answer 1b the beans from 1a that you just got paid they're withdrawal they're withdrawable without any penalty there's no tax on withdrawing your beans other than just like any other withdrawal you have to forfeit the stock and seeds associated with that deposit but in terms of the beans itself any beans that you earn are yours to keep and you can withdraw them or convert them or do whatever you want but once you get paid being seniorized that's yours and in regards to rewards that are allocated from other protocols eg you know you deposit a beam3 curve lp token that receives curve and convex rewards those rewards are distributed based on your collective ownership of the being three curve lp tokens in the silo so the goal is to mimic the rewards um in the same way that it would be as if they were not in the silo good addition there so sirius's next question is if the experiment fails and bean stock's no longer a going concern due to lack of uptake or some other reason aside from smart contract failure are our non-bean or non-stock assets in the silo returnable well it depends what what failure looks like but in short failure in the case of a depending whether that's from the protocol having a vulnerability or it being the smart contract having a vulnerability in practice that looks like the bean price collapsing and if the bean price collapses to near zero that means that any liquidity pools in which you trade against effectively have no acids in them other than beans and so in that instance you'd probably own a ton of beans and they'd probably be worthless because you wouldn't be able to trade them for anything so when you say your non-bean assets will be unrecoverable in practice that's the it's a truism right uh the experiment failing is the same thing as all of the assets that being trade against effectively being drained whether that's from a run on the bank where there's so much supply and cell pressure that the the bean price starts to collapse which again is defined by an absence of liquidity with against which being trade so it's a little bit of a truism but uh yes it's very important to acknowledge that if the experiment failed you wouldn't you know you would all of the assets that you you know that are non-being they they would not be in the silo or be trading against being so in practice your beings would likely be uh worthless yes it almost seems like the the assets in the silo the non-bean assets would no longer exist in the silo because part of that process process that run on the bank process would be removing those assets correct individuals that had them would remove them for the sake of protecting their interest that's not quite true um it's just more so we don't imagine that any assets that don't directly support beanstalk's peg maintenance would not be whitelisted by the being stocked out to be deposited into the silo and thus the majority of tokens will likely be liquidity tokens containing bean liquidity tokens specifically are valued based on the underlying assets beneath them if the bean price were to crash in a liquidity pool that you had liquidity in the ownership of your pool would likely will will mostly contain bean instead of the other asset that it's paired with eg in the beneath pool if the price of bean crashes your lp will consist of mostly beat and not very much eve in the case where we as the beanstalk dao decided to whitelist a token that was not a b nope token or the bean then that asset would still maintain its value say in the future we allow you to deposit curve tokens into the silo to accumulate gage vote if the price of being crashed that curve would still exist and you would have the deposit slip to then later withdraw that curve so your assets in the silo are not going anywhere that's i really appreciate that additional explanation that is exactly hinting at what was going through my mind i think it is probably a good thing for individuals that are in the audience to know is that yeah that if there is a non-being associated asset that it would maintain its value and be withdrawable but those assets that are that are directly associated with bean would lose their value due to that yeah and that's a great clarification publisher if anything the key thing to note uh what you did is that the liquidity pool tokens are likely to be the ones that are added to the white list by by stockholders and while there may be exceptions like uh curve tokens uh it's likely that the vast majority of assets that are added to the silo certainly in the next couple of months are going to be liquidity pool tokens and therefore that you know that was where we were coming at it from that it concides with an overall d pegging event event but pulis was totally right that uh in general if it's uh a non-beanstalk related asset where there is no exposure to the bean price uh with the exception of uh the protocol getting uh hacked in some way or the silo uh being exploited uh you know that that wouldn't that would not be the case so you'd you'd still retain uh and be able to withdraw any of those non-being exposed assets perfect all right so uh cirrus's next question and this is something that's come up before in discussions in ants um question about uh insurance providers and basically sirius is asking if we have an official or an unofficial position on insurance providers in the dec in the device space yeah so definitely the short answer is with what beanstalk is trying to accomplish insurance in a counter-intuitive way actually hurts the protocol in the same way that if beanstalk had a treasury uh the idea is well if there's some sort of thing backing the protocol ultimately then the credit isn't the main thing offering security or providing the thing that people have faith in and given that the goal is to provide as much faith as possible in the credit of the protocol if anything we think that the credit should be highlighted and hiding behind like a treasury or something like the luna foundation guard or an insurance fund ultimately in a counter-intuitive way would probably hurt beanstalk and so uh the protocol shouldn't have any sort of uh native uh treasury or native insurance uh while individuals may want to go seek out insurance for their specific bean exposure that's fine but particularly when you think about the scale that beanstalk is hoping to to achieve uh frankly it wouldn't really be possible to ensure the protocol as it reaches billions and hundreds of billions and ultimately hopefully trillions of beans that's really hard to ensure in any real meaningful sense so the goal is instead of hiding behind something that seems like it might work uh to really just highlight the credit of the protocol appreciate that and that kind of hits on that the fourth question serious head as well about a particular insurance strategy um so lots of comments comment from austin about dumpling getting swole to which i replied with the dumpling emoji because it's hilarious um so um looking at looking down the list so being profit um he asked a little bit more about or look for a little bit more let's say a little bit more clarity around being gage and his what he wrote is does that mean other protocols will pay bean holders to provide liquidity for their tokens and compared to like the curve functionality uh the short answer is the beanstalk gauge will be a system through which silo uh members stockholders can vote uh on whether to uh allow for assets to be deposited in the silo and the amount of stock and seeds to reward those assets per bean denominated value the the the the short answer is we don't have any finite plans on how the gauge system should work or any opinions on how it should work at the moment like anything strong worth sharing we're still thinking about how it should work because one thing to note is that currently stock is accumulated linearly and that has a really meaningful done the overall decentralization of ownership of stock and so we want to make sure that the gauge system enforces similar distributions of stock over time and uh still thinking through the best way to to make that happen but in the coming months the idea would be to move the system through which assets are added to the silo whitelist to a slightly more flexible system than requiring a full bip per se uh if hopefully that clarifies things okay so next a question from canadian ben and admittedly one of my favorite questions really enjoyed seeing this is we all know the beanstalk is an experiment will beanstalk ever not be an experiment and if so when would we know well that is uh that's an impossible question to answer you know uh you know in a schrodinger's cat scent it's like uh you know you can you can call it not an experiment but that's uh not sure that's actually something you want to do or if uh if calling it not an experiment actually changes the state of beanstalk as an experiment ultimately there's nothing to say that i mean when you think about the history of money no money has really lasted as the dominant money for more than a hundred years so from that standard money in general is an experiment and beanstalk is an iteration on money so i don't think we can ever really weasel our way out of being an experiment part of the reason i like the question because i feel like it's you know one of those big philosophical you know insights and discussions all right so quick apologies to and i apologize if i mispronounced your name alice saras um accidentally missed your question i was just running through the list a little bit too quick okay so alasair's question is given it will likely be some time before ownership of beanstalk is ready to be transferred to the null address what are your thoughts on adding additional people to the ownership multisig in the interim to increase decentralization uh don't have a strong opinion one way or another if that was something that felt strongly about would basically be totally supportive of that currently uh it's a three signature wallet uh held on you know different hardware wallets in different places uh but if the community wanted to expand that to more signatories uh you know more signatures that would be uh perfectly appropriate in our eyes uh you know not opposed and uh you know appreciate that question and frankly we don't we don't view our responsibility as publius as anything other than uh you know ensuring that the protocol is safe from any any anything malicious and you know we've only had to use ownership privileges once in the case of the pause uh you know and we'll we'll uh likely do it again to implement the changes from the omnishave uh to to make them once and then from that point i think there might actually be a conversation we would probably say there's a conversation worth having on whether it's time uh to transfer ownership of being stuck to the null address or whether to wait for another audit the trail of bits it's going to happen in the next couple months so that's another interesting question worth happening but certainly not opposed to it and uh you know we'll just be curious on what the the community would would like us to do basically all right thanks for that and um i will say this to the audience if there's ever anything i miss do not hesitate to dm me while we're talking along serious did it say hey you know looks like you missed my question please don't hesitate to do that i am the most human of all humans and i will miss things and and accidentally not see stuff or i'll read things wrong please don't hesitate to shoot me a message and be like hey yo what's going on here so never hesitate okay so see if i can find my place down here all right okay so so aspie i think put a b in front of his name for this um for to be in uh in in the in the uh in our beam discord um so asphy i'll try again sorry i murdered your name um so ask the basic question when i buy pods from eath does that mean or does that eat by bean from the bee the eat bean liquidity pool and then burn those beans that's exactly what happens exactly and when we think about the goal of soil it's specifically removing beans from the beneath pool and so that's exactly what beanstalk wants to happen and that's exactly what happens in practice i feel like this is you know one of the continued ongoing discussions one of the things that we will probably just never be passed is the question of like is this a ponzi scheme and whenever i am having a discussion with someone about that a lot of times on twitter i feel like my answers come back to this the idea that when beanstalk is taking on credit it is not using that value to pay off old debt it is using it to take beans out of circulation so it's a different process than what and what would be considered a ponzi scheme because it's it's using that value to reduce supply and thereby increase value so this is i mean this is such an important point it's something that i think we will probably repeating for hopefully years to come but yeah great question really appreciate that and looks like there's actually a ton of really good discussion below that in the class discussion and i'm going to try to go through here and see where the next question is again if i miss somebody's the next one i'm seeing is ours question and if i missed something in between please don't hesitate to dm me so our asks can you randomize the time within seasons when soil is available uh the short answer is anything's possible but this would be sub-optimal because a the goal is to have as efficient demand for so a market for soil as possible and you don't want to make it unclear to people when the soil will be available you want people to show up and be ready to buy it uh and furthermore uh to actually issue the soil would require uh like a sunrise functional or something similar to change the state of beanstalk and uh you know the goal is to minimize the amount of cost to maintain beanstalk so would probably you know there there's no real reason to do that but you could do it all right mods got a question and mod you got to help me with the acronym i like so pol i'll read through the question protocol on liquidity thank you thank you okay so uh mod's question is or uh mod asks for thoughts on continuing to sell soil when available soil is zero in a currency other than b protocol owned liquidity not to maintain peg but to measure demand for soil and avoid inorganic demand for bean so the short answer is you could do that but given that you're issuing debt you'd rather have that debt turn into demand for beans so that ultimately that debt is paid off and you would assume that uh even if there's excess demand for soil and the price is above one due to converts and the natural arbitragers uh playing the bean price you should still have bean peg crosses and so in short anytime you're issuing debt you really probably do want to attract demand for beans although it's a very interesting thought and would have to give it a little bit more consideration before you know really having an opinion but my first instinct would be uh would be that that's not optimal right okay king arthur asks do you see being as the dominant or a dominant stable coin um they ask because uh as time develops we could easily see governments like the us developing their own stable coins supported by the federal reserve and while that's far from the narrative decentralization it might provide some more safety for institutions seeking an asset pegged to usd well from that perspective if you consider something like jp morgan coin where they claim to be using a blockchain to handle some of the internal accounting on their end and you say well that's that's a stable coin well then you know it's hard to say one way or another uh and particularly if you consider the situation where the government is issuing some sort of fed coin uh in that case uh yeah there's likely to be a lot of fed coins uh trillions of fed coins um but with that said when you think about defy and the growth of decentralized uh open source technology don't really think that fedcoin has a place in in there frankly and when when we talk about being as the dominant stablecoin which we would say that's the goal uh talking about that more in the context of uh decentralized finance and while one day d5 may be significantly larger than the current financial world uh and hopefully beanstalk is a driving force uh towards that uh happening uh ultimately if there's a fed coin there's going to be trillions of fed coins so uh you know then it's just questionable what do you mean by dominant and uh you know what's the point in getting into semantics i'd also be interested to see how um the public would and will contain will continue to view uh coins issued by s by government entities i know that you know so china is working on their um their cryptocurrency program um you know and certainly based on the uh executive order that was just recently issued here in the u.s um sounds like there's a lot of discussion here and a lot of a lot of thought at least at this point didn't see a lot of action out of that executive order but certainly a lot of report requests and a lot of consideration and it'd be interesting to see um how the public will react to the potential of a government-issued coin in terms of control and privacy um and you know i feel like that's a really strong argument just drop a fun argument a fun uh article uh in the class discussion for people if they're uh in the mood for a fun read yeah it's so yes that is uh i would say that that's probably the article you just dropped probably talks a lot about the thoughts that i've been having um in this exact space so and this writer's pretty good i enjoyed their style it was fun nice all right i'll have to read that okay oh man party the soil sniper has he how long until bean becomes the standard global currency uh internally we're constantly texting each other when being stuck so it's kind of a meme like there's lots of work to get done and at some point it's all going to get done and it's all going to happen so uh you know when isn't really the point it's more about enjoying the process and uh you know once it happens it's just gonna be uh something we're all nostalgic about so for now enjoying the uncertainty enjoying the opportunity to build uh enjoying the community that's forming and uh enjoying the roller coasters so uh how long who can say but uh you know hopefully one day soon right it's funny um i guess it was in the the twitter army the open chat the other night on tw um i was uh we were talking about something and i dropped in you know just this idea that someday probably not long from now you know the protocol be minting you know 50 or 100 000 coins per season you know we will be connected to four or five different liquidity pools and we'll be talking about we'll be talking about this period and we'll be referring to it as like back in the day there's a great kanye lyric you can still be who you wish you is it didn't happen yet and that's where the tuition is right then i think it also could be it ain't happening yet and that's what intuition is and either way it's a world-class lyric and maybe it's meant to be ambiguous so you know whatever that just enjoying the process could have that um put in like uh have that cross stitched and put it over top of the the desk oblius in your office fun stuff fun all right so let's see i'm seeing what sink dropped in so i think um so sink was replying to barty the soil sniper sync's all about man he's like he's like the red he's like the resident philosopher i when when i think of sync we talked about it before him like sitting with a pipe just thinking big thoughts um ipo and chill always down for good stuff too question [Music] okay um okay yeah that that is a good question so ipo and chill wants to know who has the best the best quit discord username that uses beans so the best bean pun well we oh we could that could be a competition we could we could do pf drake write that down it's not a competition guys it's bean tovan that's just that name is is it's as good as it gets so strong you know or if if people want to throw their hat in the ring they're gonna have to do some serious uh thinking there because that's that's pretty good stuff king of the hill that's great um austin had a reply for the ponzi scheme which i always appreciate thanks got more good feedback man okay um [Music] looks like the next question is by the way i will say this again i love the fact that there's really lively discussion even in the class discussion channel i don't mind having to like you know kind of read through what's going on i love to see the discussion here i'd love to see it in the general chat okay um looks like our next question is canadian bennett and he's asking does pubelius have any new thoughts on the beanstalk decks last time i talked about this i know they were still playing with the idea just wondering if they have any new thoughts uh you know uh nothing too substantive frankly on this end i don't know puglis you have any thoughts yeah i i i mean maybe i'll often but uh that has not been something we've given too much brain power to i mean some of the things that we're looking at are you have to look at uh what and just to stay forever what's the point of the beanstalk decks if you haven't taken a look at the roadmap well ultimately the main thing that uh is difficult for decentralized exchanges to do is attract liquidity the beauty of beanstalk is it naturally attracts liquidity now currently all of the dexes that being straight on are other protocols and there's fees being paid to those uh governance token holders or liquidity providers that are not in beanstalk and so the idea is that because beanstalk has its own native ability to attract liquidity beanstalk could hopefully uh one day support its own beanstalk native decentralized exchange with basically zero trading fee where liquidity is simply attracted because of stock now it's really important to note that in order to preserve the decentralization of beanstalk and being any minting pools would have to remain on other protocols because if you had like the uh the well not necessarily but most likely uh it would make a lot of sense to keep a lot of the minting pools on other protocols so there's never going to be a a lack of reliance or interdependency on other decentralized exchanges but the main benefit of a beanstalk dex would be that beanstalk could attract liquidity and retain it without having transaction fees and obviously a raise to zero on the dex market would be one if someone could actually provide zero fees zero trading fees and that's something that bean stuff could in theory provide so uh don't have too many thoughts on the specific structure of that necessarily thinking about uh i mean there's a lot of different uh dexes out there band course doing some really cool stuff uh and we're starting to study how their structure works but don't have too many thoughts on how the beanstalk decks will work and that's you know that's a project for a little bit into the future that's pretty exciting i'm i'm excited about what that will look like down the road all right look at that you guys are awesome look at this look at this class discussion thread if no one is in the class discussion this is this is sweet stolen hamburger tom published out as a kanye stan i'm going to i'm gonna i'm gonna say that as well for myself i've been around since college dropout and uh when when when i saw this stolen hamburger all i could think of was changing the lyrics to gold digger to bean farmer uh i'm sure that bean tubing can work it out it'll probably come out on the second lp we're getting ourselves into some trouble here folks [Laughter] connie is looking for a decentralized uh financial protocol to partner with we our dubs are open um all right looks like more and more good stuff don't spill the beans from drake don't spill the beans these breeds aren't good um okay so mr manifold all right so this is also about the decks um but i'll throw it out and we'll see if it if it adds any to the discussion so mr manful asks does the beanstalk decks mean that you'll be able to trade from stable from stable coin bean to eat and back for to ethan back tax-free such that not trading in the beanstalk decks is inefficient possibly to the tune of 50 percent all right so this is not tax advice folks um in any way uh however uh you know bip2 introduced a potential tax efficiency in the form of going from if you have pods that are harvestable and you intend to deposit them in the silo instead of harvesting your pods turning them into beans taking delivery on those beans which is probably a taxable event because you're receiving assets into your wallet that weren't there before um you know now beanstalk can just deposit those assets in the cylon your behalf and you never need to take delivery now the generalized bean farm not even the beanstalk decks which is a little bit down the road but the generalized bean farm which is four to six weeks away let's call it um that will facilitate wrapping tokens into beanstalk so let's say you have beans and you trade them into ethereum you will be able to elect whether to take delivery on that ethereum or whether to leave that ethereum wrapped within beanstalk and so you'd in theory be able to go from beans into ethereum not take delivery in the future trade that back into beans never take delivery so the idea is with the generalized bean farm you'll never need to take now we have no opinion whatsoever on whether that has tax implications or not but various community members have reached out to us and said you know that would be beneficial to them so want to enable that for people that uh you know for whatever reason they think that would be beneficial from a tax perspective but again you know we have no opinion whatsoever on appreciate that and mr manifold just said it in the bottom of the chat not financial advice do your own research we're literally just legumes we're just chatting here folks this is just a place for everyone to learn and ask questions but ultimately there's no right answers and as we were talking about before this is all an experiment so yep uh completely this is this is fun for us all to to to come to uh some some some things together austin that's uh you know that's again not do your do your own research folks always do your own research um so uh nasdaq said it in the chat and i will say it in front of the crew here um you know obviously we've been going through the class discussion thread um but traditionally and here as well if someone wants to come up and ask a question we are more than happy to do that raise your hand uh we are actually we're at 8 30 um or i should say we're at one hour or 8 30 eastern time um but uh if anybody has any kind of last last items they want to bring up his questions or thoughts before we cut everyone loose we you know would definitely want to entertain that whoever just bought sold 420 000 beans nice holy crap it was a buy and sell it was an art but still hilarious that's awesome fun stuff good transactions actually utility moving all right so um one last quick thing is um so i think some people know some people don't pf drake is our new um events lead in the community team uh one of the things we wanted to do uh just for fun is we're gonna do some just do some giveaways for folks that happen to be in the crowd tonight i'm gonna try to hook you up with some beanstalk swag um so pf was searching through the uh just looking through who is in attendance tonight and i think he's gonna drop a couple names into the classroom discussion and we will reach out to you to try to figure out a way to get that to you and of course you know if if um you know for for uh personal information reasons you don't want to do that certainly fine just want to make that available to say hey thanks for thanks for coming and we'll we'll continue to do that uh every week for class just kind of i think we're going to kind of look at like who's asking really good questions and then who's new and try to you know maybe get one one individual from each of those crowds so always uh come and bring your good questions bring your friends you never know when you might end up with a beanstalk hat or t-shirt too in addition to all the really good discussion that you got over the last hour all right looks like we are just about done um so that will uh we'll start to cut people loose uh publius any other thoughts before we let you go just want to say the past week has definitely been exciting uh to see all this excess demand for soil and see the effects of bip six and bip seven and big nine in practice and uh very enthused by the growth of the community and want to encourage everyone to continue to ask questions and uh raise concerns and uh you know just one of the things that's made beanstalk so great so far is the community and everyone's willingness to kind of ask questions and work together to figure things out and just want to say that as we grow want to want to do our best to preserve that environment so i think our community is very committed to that but i want to encourage all the newcomers here to really just ask questions and uh you know we'll do our best to answer them uh you know collectively in a way that's truthful and uh you know as transparent as humanly possible so welcome to all the newcomers and very excited for uh the continued growth of beanstalk in our community completely agreed all right thanks again everybody for your time and we will see you next week if not before thanks again everybody talk to you later