- Quick Summary
- Announcements and Updates
- What does Publius think about developments in the past month?
- Saw that the Gauge proposal went out, what are the next steps from here?
- Could Publius go into more detail on the convert+mint feature?
- “I've heard on a couple occasions Publius say that it would only take 1-2M of capital into Beanstalk to kickstart another growth cycle. Do you think that's still true and could you talk about why that is the case?”
- How do we get back to those November days where we were seeing ~0.5M pods harvested every day?
- How has the pod marketplace performed in Publius’s opinion?
- Who has Publius and the team been talking to to get the word out?
- With regards to exploits and manipulations, are there any core concerns Publius has over the next 30-60 days?
- Does generalized Convert functionality reduce the value proposition of a protocol integrating with the Silo to create a "blackhole" for their token / LP token?
- “I have noticed some confusion with the "Farms" in our branding misleading people to think of us as a typical yield farm, which could be putting off some people, that do not yield farm. Thoughts on branding changes to put the "stable" more in the forefront and not leading with the "Farms", for eg. the BeanstalkFarms twitter handle.”
- “Is it possible to release Omniscia report when completed/vulnerabilities are addressed?”
- Could Publius speak to the integration with FiatDAO?
- In this edition of Beanstalk A&T, we cover topics like:
- Marketing Update
- Publius’s thoughts about developments in the past month
- Gauge Proposal
- Thoughts around weather
- Getting back to the minting rate that was present in November
- and more...
Announcements and Updates
- Today we signed Serotonin, a PR/Marketing firm. They asked to get paid in Beans!
- Rex is here to be our new Community Lead!
What does Publius think about developments in the past month?
- Really impressed with Beanstalk’s performance in the past month, especially during the broader crypto market drawdown
- Peg has been tightly maintained
- Debt level has stabilized since Jan 1
- Both of these things are happening while ETH has drawn down a ton
Saw that the Gauge proposal went out, what are the next steps from here?
- Will reach out to the different DAOs who have influence in the Curve Gauge to let everyone know this proposal is out and ask for comments, and the incorporate
- Then we will formally propose onchain that the pool gets added to the Gauge.
- If the pool is added to the Gauge (pending vote), LP token holders for Bean:3CRV pool can choose between earning Gauge rewards vs earning Stalk+Seed rewards
- While this is ongoing, Beanstalk is working on another BIP that will facilitate the deposit of Convex:Bean:3CRV into the Silo so that you can receive both boosted Convex rewards and Stalk+Seed rewards at the same time
Could Publius go into more detail on the convert+mint feature?
- The roadmap is a lot about the generalization of the Silo and the generalization of the minting schedule
- 2 steps that need to happen in conjunction with one another is:
- Once generalized minting goes live, we want to make sure there are conversions allowed in the Silo for that liquidity pool (right now can only convert between Bean:ETH LP and deposited beans)
- If we have minting without convert, then we go back to a world where convert doesn’t really exist. Vice versa, it’s weird to have convert on a pool that isn’t a minting pool
- We could think about changing this in a BIP. The most quick fix is basically changing the following chart in the whitepaper. In the top right of the top chart below (in coordinate (2,-1)) you can see a 1 where the rest of the row is 0. We could change that 1 to a 0 to implement this suggestion.
- Making this change will push is in the right direction
- The goal is to create an efficient market for soil. How can we measure soil properly? This is a tricky problem because there's a minimum threshold of available soil where it becomes not worth it to sow because of fees
“I've heard on a couple occasions Publius say that it would only take 1-2M of capital into Beanstalk to kickstart another growth cycle. Do you think that's still true and could you talk about why that is the case?”
- Not sure Publius has said exactly that
- Back in November the growth cycle was kicked off by about 1M capital, so that may have been true back in November
- Right now we are closer to needing $5-6M demand to kickstart a larger growth cycle
How do we get back to those November days where we were seeing ~0.5M pods harvested every day?
- Getting generalized minting going in the Curve pool will be a big deal
- There was someone who bought 500,000 pods on pod marketplace and they bought 40,000 beans on Curve to facilitate that. So for a few minutes there was a big shortage in the Curve pool. If the Curve pool was incorporated into generalized minting, this would have caused more mints (assuming this held for the whole TWAP)
- If we generalize minting, we could see hundreds of thousands of Beans minted even if price is very marginally above a dollar
How has the pod marketplace performed in Publius’s opinion?
- Hard to qualify the performance of the pod marketplace given few data points
- Next steps to improve the marketplace (much of which was highlighted in the roadmap)
- The biggest one is to allow listings and orders to have a dynamic pricing curve (allow for bids and asks to be different at different places in the pod line)
Who has Publius and the team been talking to to get the word out?
- Did a podcast with Brad at Mission Defi last week
- Had a call with Tally Wallet folks
- DefiDave podcast
- FiatDAO Twitter spaces
- A lot more opportunities coming to get the word out there
- Beanstalk has a great community and we are all thankful to be a part of it and work with such smart, dedicated people all unified around our central goal
- On Twitter random people are complimenting the Beanstalk community
- Great sign that this is real and we have a great future
With regards to exploits and manipulations, are there any core concerns Publius has over the next 30-60 days?
- Already learned a ton from the ESD model to build a more robust system from the outset
- Feeling pretty good about the next 30-60 days, we should be good
- Initial report of the Omniscia audit is coming soon
Does generalized Convert functionality reduce the value proposition of a protocol integrating with the Silo to create a "blackhole" for their token / LP token?
- Publius thinks it actually works in the opposite direction
- Let’s say there are a ton of deposited Beans in the Silo that people want to take advantage of
- By integrating, a protocol can take advantage of all the deposited beans to use as liquidity against the other side of the protocol’s token
“I have noticed some confusion with the "Farms" in our branding misleading people to think of us as a typical yield farm, which could be putting off some people, that do not yield farm. Thoughts on branding changes to put the "stable" more in the forefront and not leading with the "Farms", for eg. the BeanstalkFarms twitter handle.”
- Open to name changes
- Making a clear brand is essential. Deezbeans is the man to talk to about this
- Open to branding Beanstalk and Beanstalk Farms differently
“Is it possible to release Omniscia report when completed/vulnerabilities are addressed?”
- Getting them to audit all the changes as the code rapidly changes is tough. We ar pushing code so frequently it’s a bit hard for them to keep up
- Thus there is some ambiguity around what exactly will be published from Omniscia
Could Publius speak to the integration with FiatDAO?
- Tomorrow, FiatDAO twitter spaces meeting on this
- With FiatDAO you could take out loans against your pods which would be huge. Having the ability to take out leverage aginst a pods is a big step in becoming a primitive for defi
all right well welcome everybody to beanstalk and t i'm rex i am um the i don't know i'm with the community team let's say i'm one of the community team here at beanstalk and um kind of settling into my new role and as part of that role helping out to run these classes and take a little bit of take a little bit of responsibility off of dumpling shoulders has been been doing this for some time running these classes want to tell you quickly doubling how much i appreciate the uh the work that you've put in and the amount of time so happy to happy to help out in this way so um as we were talking about if you've got some questions you know obviously i think most folks kind of know how this um how this session works i will have published kind of kick things off with just um let's say opening thoughts or any new updates that they want to cover um and then we'll probably kind of kick it over to um to the group to see if there are any specific questions that want to be covered um we are we've got a few ways that people can can get involved in the meeting uh one was what we were just talking about you can post a question to the class discussion um or you can just request to be brought up on stage and i can talk about your question or give your question directly with that publius is there anything you want to particularly cover uh to get us kicked off tonight just want to say welcome rex happy to have you it's great to be here actually so um if there is at least um would it be all right with you um and actually i gotta check who's here if we've got oh we've got is do i see tb yeah uh tb you want to talk quickly about the serotonin stuff yeah sure can you hear me yeah you're good to go awesome yeah i mean it's it's great news serotonin is a content um and pr and marketing agency really that we've signed today so the contract is done um the payment's about to get go out and actually it's really cool because they they are a vendor um who has asked to get paid in beans uh which is you know here's to many more such payments happening uh globally all over the world uh where beans are uh are what is being exchanged in terms of value so very happy with that uh serotonin is a premium crypto agency they worked with you know several big brands including like ample force um which is also a stable coin uh an algorithmic stable coin so just very exciting they've worked with a lot of big brands and we're very happy to be able to associate and have a partner like that who's functioned at such a high level and we're going to kick things off this week um i think thursday is when we have our kickoff call uh we're just excited to see you know what what value they can bring uh to beat stock and uh if if they're if their client um their past clientele their performance history is any sign um i think good things are coming so that's that's all we'll say about that great stuff all right so um without getting too far off into all the different things that are going into uh going on in the different groups so um wanna so usually the beanstalk ant is set up in something like a q a or ama style i want to kick it as quickly as possible out to the group um any any thoughts questions anything that the group wants to bring up to talk through with publius or with another member of the another member of the team actually i'll ask a question while i'm here on stage awesome um i think we would love to hear at least i personally love to hear how it's been going you feel in terms of the latest ups and downs uh in terms of east and how you think beanstalk is doing just would love to get a general idea of how you think the past month or so has been in your view for being stuck so the past month has been and we said at the risk of sounding like we're shilling we're not uh we're just answering honestly the past month has been really exciting and a big part of the overall proof of concept for being stuck which is even with eth generally trending downward and over the past couple days it's seemed to have broken out of that trend at least for the time being the price of a bean has continued to oscillate pretty consistently above and below a dollar during this time and peak to trough is now down over 40 percent or or was uh down over 40 percent uh and despite that beans uh really stayed at a dollar and stayed oscillating at above and below a dollar when you had really short periods of time where each would dip a few percent uh that did manifest itself in some t-waps uh below 99 cents even one or two below 98 cents uh but in general between converts and arbitrages that are seem to be maintaining the peg at a decent rate uh there was not a lot of volatility in the bean price as compared to the eath markets or crypto markets in general and that's very exciting now the thing that i would look at as the other major thing to keep an eye on is beanstalk doesn't just optimize around price it also optimizes around debt level and the fact that we've seen the debt level start to stabilize significantly since january 1 it's the rate at which the pilot has been increasing has decreased significantly and that continues to flatten out and despite heath continuing to come down so in general you would expect during a market drawdown the beanstalk debt level might have to increase but that that has not even been the case so just in general uh an exciting couple of weeks from a proof of concept for beanstalk you know that's not to say that uh everything is made certainly not uh but it is important to just take a little bit of a step back and appreciate when things are going uh well and the past month is certainly a meaningful data point on the in the grand scheme of things awesome thank you all right um thank you tb so we've got a question in the chat from silo chad said he just just saw that the gauge proposal went out and is wondering what the timeline is from here so the next steps will be in the next couple of hours we're hopefully going to ping or drop some messages in the relevant discord communities the curved out the convex dao yearn uh stakedown and if anyone else has any other relevant ideas for dows that have large influence uh in the curve gauge that we should reach out to uh let us know uh i don't i don't believe there are any others uh but one basically we're gonna let everyone know that this proposal draft is live and then we're gonna wait a couple days to see if there's any comments or anything that needs to get changed or added and then uh at that point we're gonna beanstalk farms is gonna formally propose on chain to have the pool added to the gauge uh and at that point we'll see how the vote goes now uh there have been for the most part not a lot of hiccups for protocols getting added to the gauge but you know we're not going to count any chickens until that happens so after that happens that's where things get very exciting so if the tool is added to the gauge at that point lp token holders for the bean 3 curve pool will be able to choose between earning gauge rewards and earning stock and seed rewards from beanstalk however uh in the meantime while this is ongoing beanstalk farms is working on another dip that will facilitate the effectively the deposit of convex being three curve into the silo such that you'll be able to receive both bean stock and boosted curve rewards via convex at the same time and so that is like the next step in the well the next step in the silo generation is the generalization is convert and minting but uh the next thing beyond that will be uh the convex boosted rewards and that'll be done in a general way such that the silo facilitates uh a reward distribution for a variety of different assets so that's that's what the timeline looks like for the next month plus let's call it on the curve integration so would you um would you go into just a little bit more detail on that convert and mint component so uh the road map talked a lot about the continued generalization of the silo and uh also the generalization of the minting schedule so the silo generalization has to happen in steps but one step that it's important to happen in conjunction is two steps that are important to happen in conjunction with one another from an economics perspective is that when uh generalized minting goes live such that any pool could be added to the minting schedule in this case it'll start with the bean 3 curve pool we want to make sure that there's conversions allowed within the silo for that liquidity pool so right now converts only work for the bean eat unit swap v2 pool within the silo but obviously we want to generalize that to support any lp tokens or any assets that are in the silo in a modular fashion such that you'll be able to go from deposited lpa to deposited lpb to deposited beans to deposited token c potentially without any loss of stock or with minimal loss of stock and so that will continue to almost create a silo effect within the silo but uh it's aptly named right uh it will create uh reasons for assets to remain within the silo now the reason the minting and convert need to happen in tandem is that if you have minting without convert then we kind of go back to a world where convert doesn't necessarily exist and you could roll out convert beforehand but it's also weird to have convert in a pool that minting doesn't actually take place on particularly at this stage of the game where uh the like there's only one other pool being added to the silo so in the future we may not want that to be the case for every pool like pools that you can convert within may not be a minting pool per se but in this case uh given the current size of beanstalk it makes sense for them to happen at the same time so that's that that's one of the next bits that are you know from a structural perspective in the works now the next bit that is probably going to go live and this is actually more of a change of course so in the past there's been a lot of questions about the weather and we've very much pushed back on the idea that there should be any short-term fixes to the weather as opposed to waiting to figure out a more general solution to measuring demand for soil and then however that might affect the weather changes in general uh let's say a couple things one we've found that figuring out the optimal system for measuring command for soil demand for soil to be particularly complex to get right but as we've gotten closer and closer to what a system might look like it's become evident that that system will resemble in practice if not in theory uh what a band-aid solution to the current weather might look like and the specific band-aid would just be to change within the weather changes uh that pesky one which is in the you know i guess the coordinate would be if you're looking at figure 11 the coordinate is two negative one so decelerating towards ideal equilibrium with excessively high debt which is the case where the price is greater than one but uh there's decreasing demand for soil uh which just to just to state it explicitly that's the case that we're experiencing quite often where the price is above one uh but because the price is above one there's not a sufficient soil available for anyone to sell because of gas fees and accordingly again without getting into too many specifics on where the demand for soil measurement might go the point is that it's become evident that changing the one to a zero uh even though it's not the most elegant solution is in the long run probably a good thing to do and gets us close to closer to what uh a final model might look like um and so with that in mind i think in the next couple days uh were inclined to submit a bip to change that one to a zero um and this is a little bit of just train of thought but uh was just talking about the the upcoming dips so thought this was relevant to mention that you know in this is obviously something we've talked about in class multiple times over a period of weeks and months this is you know it's important to constantly be optimizing in real time and i think as we've continued to study the weather it makes sense for us to make this shorter term change given that even if it's not perfect it's in the direction of where the evolution of the system is likely going to go now i appreciate that but what it makes you think of is getting you know moving away from having that you know you that to use your term that pesky one that one percent increase it almost seems to be saying that when when the protocol wants to increase the weather that the the circumstances under which it will will increase the weather are a little bit more definitive and then the change in the weather itself will in turn be more definitive kind of in in tandem if i'm calling yeah and so just to be clear the goal is to create an efficient market for soil and that that primary goal does appear to have uh been achieved right the beanstalk is issuing the right amount of soil at least in our opinion and it that's manifested itself in a flattening of the pod rate over the past two months since pip nine and the the question becomes okay now that you're measuring and you have an efficient demand you have an efficient market for soil how can you actually measure demand for soil properly and that's a very tricky problem because there's this minimum threshold and it's unclear what exactly that minimum is below which it's not cost effective to sell just because there's too many fees not enough upside and not enough soil the problem is that as soon as you hard code or come up with some sort of way that it's easy for everyone to calculate in real time what that threshold is uh you're basically gonna encourage people to sew all but 0.0001 uh beans uh up you know up to that threshold such that the weather will still be increasing or read a negative read a decreasing reader whatever the thing you're trying to measure is it will be a false measurement in practice because you're defining some explicit threshold that everyone can avoid and if you're the first person to sell and your transaction goes through first and you so just above that threshold or just below however you want to think about it uh that immediately creates the same incentive issue that um caused everyone to not so before so we're kind of back to square one so that's why this is non-trivial to fix in reality but exactly as you're saying this is you know this is in in that spirit all right so um next we've got a a question in the chat from austin and he says i've heard on a couple occasions publicly say that it would only take one to two million of capital into beanstalk to kickstart another growth cycle do you think that this is still true and could you talk about why that's the case so i don't know if i've said that before uh austin that may be a little bit of a misquote but if i said it you know you know i'd be curious where exactly uh but with that said i think the thing to to put it into context what we've spoken about is in the past uh like the november growth cycle was kick-started by only about a million dollars of capital that came into beanstalk very quickly now with that said there was only the beanie the uniswap v2 pool at the time there were no converts at the time and there was much less liquidity in the pool at the time and so i think the system could handle a million dollars of demand and again that was a million dollars of demand for soil uh like so that that's a lot of demand for beans um in terms of raw demand i don't think uh especially given that there's not that much soil at the moment that we're likely to see let's say a million dollars of three curve were added to the pool tomorrow uh i don't think that that would kick-start a major growth cycle but it is likely to increase the rate that beans are paid out to senior to stockholders and pods start to get harvested and it's more likely to have the price of being started to trade on average above one as opposed to over the past month even though we've been oscillating above and below one uh it's the price has been on average below one i'm making that up but that would be my my guess just from paying attention to the market and so where you would start to see the million dollars have an effect is that uh the the apis even though we're they're not being done shown at the moment uh the apys would probably go up pretty substantially and at that point you may have uh more demand come in thereafter because the system has started to grow a little bit faster but i i would just if i've said it in the past that may have been true at the time but in beanstalk's current state with the amount of liquidity out there in the curve pool and converts live in the uniswell pool i would say we're closer to 5 million to 10 million dollars of total demand to kickstart a larger growth cycle now maybe one to two million dollars if it came in in a short period of time would be enough to bring in more capital but we are at a place where bean stock could take in a million to two million dollars of demand pretty seamlessly i think so that's that's where we're at as a protocol that's good and what what goes through my mind is it seems like um we are kind of uh you know teetering or going back and forth in terms of the folks that are you know the pod line you know thinking about and what what could spark that you know if we hop into you know our real short-term way back machine going back to like let's say november when that last growth cycle did happen and you know thinking about man i want to say that we were we were seeing what was it half a million half million pods harvested a day maybe even more and um you know i think there are a lot of folks that are thinking are we gonna see those numbers at some point again in the near future and like it's it's been really interesting to watch um what goes through my mind is dental ways when when the t wops just above a dollar when it's a dollar and half of a cent to see you know almost 10 000 uh positive minted um or i should say harvested and i think a lot of folks are saying okay you know what are the circumstances under which you know we're seeing hourly um hourly seasons where you know we're seeing 10 15 000 pods harvested again and i think that's that might be part of what what austin's getting that too is that seeing that in the past god is the future yeah i think i think from that perspective getting the generalized minting going in the curve pool is going to be a big step in that direction so the like not sure if uh people noticed but maybe an hour ago someone bought like 500 000 pods on the pod marketplace and that they bought 40 000 beans on curve to facilitate that and so for a couple minutes there was like a 60 000 access on curve and a twenty thousand excess on unison and i don't think that lasted the whole hour uh but the point is that would have been a season where forty thousand beans were minted if if that lasted for the whole tea walk and again i think especially given that beanstalk hasn't seen any major influence over the past couple weeks despite you taking a trail off um at some point and again if the million dollars came into the system i think we would see much more t-waps along those lines uh that's where incorporating the curve pull into the minting schedule becomes really interesting so it's probably a combination of getting some more capital in the door and continuing to upgrade beanstalk like right now even if you had a huge excess uh in the curve pool talk a quarter million axis in the curve pool you're not gonna have that much minting because of uh the unesco pool is where minting happens and because of arbitrage opportunities between the curveball and the unison pool the uniform pool is probably maxed out at a dollar three a dollar four unless you're starting to get real excesses in the curve pool so that's where i guess you'd say real shortages of beans in the curve pool um so that's where i think uh things get interesting gotcha yeah it's just it's almost this kind of interesting dichotomy within you know at least within myself i don't want to generalize to say within other other farmers or folks you you see the you see being performed so well in the peg and you're you know i'm i'm watching this as days go through and as seasons go by and it's you know within it's 99 and a half 99.7 you know a dollar and a tenth and it it's it's awesome to watch and at the same time you're thinking at some point we're gonna de-leverage and like those those two can almost competing thoughts like knowing that for serious deleveraging you're probably going to be in a situation where you're going to get quite a bit above peg for a certain period of time and so you've got kind of these competing thoughts racing through your mind as you're watching the the price trend yeah that's like the double edge sort of the converts right on the one hand it helps when you're below peg uh but on the other hand when you're above peg there is a little bit of a tragedy of the commons where if no one converted that would cause momentum but at the same time that's by design right like the goal is to have pew so i call it a tragedy of the comments a little tongue-in-cheek but that was exactly what you were alluding to right like there's a little bit of that uh desire for the price to run up but at the same time that's the beauty of generalizing minting such that you know you could even if let's say the a parameter starts to increase in the pool and liquidity increases in the curve pool you could have hundreds of thousands of beans minted with the price a tenth of a cent above a dollar potentially so that's where things get very cool yeah i i think everybody's looking forward to that and it yeah it's big things are coming not too uh not to misquote beantovan who yes i do see him in the crowd all right got a couple folks that are typing into the chat all right i just got out beaned so um out bean says in your opinion how has the pod marketplace perform what's the next step in the marketplace or what's the next step for the marketplace or pods well the performance of the market is a little hard to qualify other than to say it's working and there have been lots of beans exchanged or pods exchanged uh and that's really cool uh one thing that we were super excited about upon launch is seeing how the pricing curve for pods would ultimately form and that's just been very exciting to watch now in terms of next steps so getting a v1 or a v0 whatever you want to call it of the pod marketplace up the farmers market up was great but there's a lot that can be done to improve the efficiency of the market going forward and a lot of that was highlighted in the road bath now without getting into too many weeds i think the biggest one is a allowing for listings and orders to use a dynamic pricing curve such that you'll be able to say when i list my pause at any place in the line here's what they should be priced as based on a formula and you'll be able to place bids as a dynamic pricing curve as well and that will tremendously improve the liquidity and efficiency of the market now in terms of timeline on that front uh b enjoyer who led development on the initial uh pod marketplace is working now part-time uh to work on that and then maltesey is also working on the pod marketplace they're trying to figure out uh the best way to implement the listing and order pricing as functions uh in solidity in an efficient fashion which is non-trivial and so that's kind of where that's at at the moment but there's a lot of thought going into implementing that upgrade and there are a variety of other minor tweaks as well like being able to buy multiple listings in the same transaction and things like that but uh that's neither here nor there at the moment good stuff i'd be interested to know and and it seems like we've got the history um of things like repricing [Music] folks that are you know putting pods under the marketplace leaving them there for some time and saying okay i think i need to change the price to you know to either to get closer to a sale or to you know to to achieve some specific goal that's i mean that's one of the things that floats through my head is how often are people making changes to what they're offering either either offering to for a sale price or a purchase price yeah i mean that's one of the things that isn't easily displayed on the ui and so it's a little hard to track other than from bot um but yeah that's been interesting to follow as well i don't have as many insights on that as i as i might like just as a function of i don't think we have that data super easily accessible um the other data i would be interested in looking at is like a history of clearing prices and how that's changed over time uh but that's also displaying all this data in a user-friendly fashion is non-trivial all right we've got a couple folks typing it's incubating twins fan so i will invite oh dumplings up dumpling anything you want to share yeah i mean that's cool totally cool something that's right all right so twins fan just put into the chat uh boobalus you've stated uh that to get more opportunities to share beanstalk or it's oh i'm sorry okay let me let me start over again publish has started to get more opportunities to share beanstalk in the larger d5 community is this through a larger interest in the project so you want to just talk us through a little bit about um how much talks through a little bit of a little bit about some of the the different things you've been appearing on podcasts stuff like that wow that might be the most on the spot question we've been asked since launching beanstalk like who have we been talking to man i don't know a little more seriously um i don't think i can speculate or answer as to the cause of this is this through a larger interest in the project that's presumably one of the reasons i would also shout out the biz dev team particularly incubate who's just and also being merchant but incubates just like guerrilla warfare out there making incredible connections with great communities and uh a couple of examples as we were in the tally wallet discord chat uh last week and that was a really cool community uh we did a podcast with brad uh at at uh mission d vision defy uh last week which i think just dropped this week and we we've been participating in like i think we're going to be able to be on d5 dave's podcast soon so there's there's a variety of different newer opportunities we're going to be in a fiat dao twitter spaces tomorrow uh there's definitely a lot more opportunities recently to get the word out there i don't know how much of that is a function of being larger versus the protocol demonstrating its ability to withstand downside volatility in people noticing or being forced to pay attention a little bit more but regardless of the cause it's very exciting and we're trying to take full advantage of that by you know putting our best foot forward and uh you know showing up where where the biz dev team tells us to in the marketing team tells us uh you know to go and we feel like we're in really good hands with uh maxo and syncubate uh leading the way on biz dev and tb and jww and mod uh leading the way on the marketing front there's there's a lot of really exciting stuff happening so from an exposure perspective i think yeah it's noticeable right it's noticeable that more people are starting to pay attention and take being stock seriously so we're just going to continue to try to do our best to represent being stuck uh and you know we're we're grateful that we have the opportunity to continue to go out there and talk about it so that's it's very it's very special so i'll give you a personal follow-up when when publius was starting okay so thinking back uh about mission d5 podcast i think um talked about how public started up a couple thanksgivings ago did it go through your collective minds that you know a year and a handful months after that you would be spending as much time as you are doing things like podcasts and the more i mean i'm going to use the term um outward facing you know work or was it was was that something that you would you know seen on the horizon or was it more of a surprise or yeah this is where this is at is is totally surreal and to claim any sort of foresight on that front would be uh ridiculous um i would say it does feel in many ways like you know we're doing what we're supposed to be doing in the grand scheme of things so it's like while i and we kind of joke about it internally like i don't know if spending a couple hours every week recording podcasts is like the best use of my time uh as opposed to writing the white paper or trying to work on the git book documentation or trying to figure out how to measure demand for weather or the multi-chain architecture or there's a million there's a million things to work on but at the end of the day uh you know one of i think one of the lines that we quoted in that original mission d5 podcast is the only reward for hard work is more work and so ultimately i don't know if this is where we thought we would be uh you know put now it's 15 months ago 16 months ago um but we're certainly grateful for it and it's one of those when we decided to kind of dive all in and originally that night we thought we'd do like an esd fork or something it was originally just a we were spitballing right so what but once we decided to dive all in and try to make this as amazing as humanly possible or at least that we could make it possible uh yeah i don't i don't know if it's like this is where we thought we would be but the point is we're just very grateful to be here and and very excited for the opportunity to continue to work on on beanstalk every waking minute and also in my dreams it's like you know so that's uh it's a good place to be and i feel like uh i feel like there's a there's one a neck one of being dumber's next tracks something about dreaming about beans oh wait actually now i think about it he's got a line there's a line in one of the songs there's a field full of beans i can see it in my dreams maybe that's where i'm i'm just i'm just tapping into it so so if anything i mean after pausing there the one thing i would comment that's a total mind it's it really is mind blowing is that we have compelled so many amazing individuals a lot of whom are hanging out here in class today to work on beanstalk in some capacity and to spend their time trying to make beanstalk a reality and that is where i know for for us individually it's very meaningful and rewarding and surreal to be surrounded by a bunch of people that love this thing that while we created it it's certainly not ours at this point it's everyone's and that's uh i mean it's that is the the thing that i think is most stunning or surreal as opposed to recording podcasts like as i'm sure you can tell rex i can talk all day so put me on a podcast or uh right you know that's that's where i'm talking is less less uh important than the people i'm talking to and to be talking to uh i mean and having calls every day with people that are really spending all of their brain power to make beanstalk as great as possible that is surreal i i couldn't agree more and so it's funny um i find myself watching [Music] twitter feeds a lot you know definitely now more in d5 than ever before and and specifically watching what um people are saying about beanstalk that aren't part of this you know kind of core group you know trying to figure out what people in general how they perceive the protocol and um and i'm trying to think i i'd have to look to see who was but some but some some random person on twitter talked about the community and maybe they're you know maybe they're a more integral part of the community you know under a different pseudonym or something else but it didn't seem like it based on you know just the way that they wrote the tweet and it was extremely uh complementary to the community itself and as you know as part of the community team like that is like to me aside from having a really technically strong protocol and some really solid you know economic philosophy you know to say hey like this is a group of of individuals that are genuinely great to be around i mean that's like you don't see that in a lot of other you know really organizations in general cryptocurrency defy in particular it seems like there's you know there's a lot of folks that are looking to kind of get rich quick or you know find out ways that they can take advantage of systems but this community is is excellent yeah i think i saw that tweet too and uh it put more than like it's it's it put a smile on our face but it's more than that it's like this is the best sign the community and the quality that's the best sign that this is real and that beanstalk has a bright future ahead of it potentially where it's you know if anything going back to like our thoughts a couple thanksgivings ago the thing about esd was that it was really neat and unique but ultimately was very clearly like a pump a dump isn't the right thing but it was it was very clearly manipulated right it was a system that from the from the get-go was manipulated in a fashion that made it very difficult for anyone to actually uh like invest in it in the long run and that stem from the fact that the debt coupons were all fungible which really disproportionately rewarded wales to the fact that the the minting schedule was and so the earlier you were in no matter what the better you did and though like when we made core decisions about how to structure beanstalk the fact that it worked out right like it was the decision to go kind of the opposite of the vc route route and sell anything in advance or do any like we could we very easily could have done that um the fact that now we're here and surrounded by amazing people that's it's it's very notable it's very notable so the fact that the community is getting shout outs on twitter is like yeah that's really awesome it really is i i keep seeing so i keep seeing al beaned typing or get a message on my phone which i'm watching as i'm on my computer here too i just want to make sure that you're not being come yeah what's going on here you want to hop up [Music] i don't know we got like four or five people typing now jw's austin and al beane it's a party always welcome on the stage all right austin says we value decisiveness in this community out beans you're getting you're getting called out all right i'll be typing again allegedly allegedly all right out bean says what do you think about local farmers i you you might have to be a little bit more more specific about being kids i i live in a place where there are a lot of local farmers you talk about local farmers here or how do we continue to keep them in silence okay all right so basically if i'm understanding what you're asking i'll mean um how do we the question is how do we continue so when we have let's let's call them like um relatively passive observers or new members of the community how do we pull them in and and make them or help incentivize them to become um more involved is that it sounds seems like that's what you're what you're getting at what do you what do you think publius i've got a couple thoughts if you want to go first yeah i think here they clarified how do we keep them engaged i mean ultimately that is i mean not to put you on the spot reps but this is why we're so excited to have you starting to lead the community uh or the community department within beanstalk farms might be the better way to say it where making sure that when people have questions or people want to understand what's happening with the omniscient audit or what's like we have active representation that can in a a complete way you know make sure that people feel responded to and included even if they're not um you know actively working on beanstalk which again not everyone can work on being stuck some people want to just use it and that's totally cool too so i think having high quality communication and high quality documentation is that's the name of the game on that front yeah and i would i would follow up and it's funny because this is a question you asked me a couple weeks ago when we were first talking about the community community role and i was still wrapping my head around it as well and i guess now with a little bit of hindsight you know i can probably give you a better answer than i could then but the first thing that goes through my mind is and and something you hit it at it's the idea that making sure that people are listened to i feel like is the first step especially if they are relatively new and have questions about the protocol i don't think anybody here is fooled about the level of complexity here in fact it's something that we talk about a lot in different spaces um you know be it on twitter or in the discord you know there's there's a lot of complexity here and so to be able to have you know new or somewhat passive members of the community if they have questions to be able to respond to them in in if nothing else making people feel like they have been heard and not ignored it's kind of a first step the other thing that goes through my mind about you know managing that engagement is trying to trying to find ways that individuals feel like they are comfortable in terms of increasing their involvement and not just saying well here's the boxes we have if you don't fit the box sorry you know but to be able to you know to say to or or even more so to be intuitive about how we interact with individuals and find out what their strengths and weaknesses and interests are in finding ways to help them [Music] use those strengths and interests to be more engaged and to find a place and to be supportive as that process happens knowing that it doesn't always work quite right the first time sometimes the first thing you do isn't you know quite a quite the right fit but there's opportunities to learn and grow and you know there's going to be a support system for individuals along the way no matter what their level of involvement is so hopefully that's a better answer than i gave you a few weeks back awesome rex really awesome so i mean how lucky are we to have you so go on so the the i mean only only thing to add there is i think that the the key difficulty will be as this the community starts to scale and we add a zero to the number of discord members how can we how can we make sure that the the purity is maintained to some extent and it's not to say it'll all maintain be maintained it'll be the good old days where the discord was was you know a plus uh but for now you know we can enjoy it while last and take precautions and you know uh prepare for for what hopefully is a larger inflow of people yep that's very fair um the uh yeah i have another thought but you know i'd rather get to so j dubs dropped a question into the chat and i want to go through that make sure that we get it so jdubs says with regard regards to exploits and manipulations publius can you talk a little more to any core concerns you see for the protocol over the next 30 to 60 days that can be remedied specifically in light of the esd experience that you just mentioned i mean over the next 30 to 60 days probably not uh the all of the main lessons from esd were implemented in the original beanstalk and we probably didn't learn enough lessons as reflected in the fact that for example the minimum soil was originally a function of the total bean supply uh that was like a a leftover thing from the esd uh model even though not directly just the thought process behind the esd model and i but i i think at this point nothing related to esd or inspired by that is relevant to beanstalk you know we'll just use this chance to shout out the the omnisha audit which you know we did get back a preliminary report uh at this point there have been a couple bits since then so the code has changed but uh feeling pretty good about that and so gonna try to you know it's just it's difficult to marry getting getting all of the changes done in a version of the code that you know at the same time that we're pushing new codes so trying to figure out the best way to marry that at the moment frankly having a little bit of difficulty doing managing that with omnisha but we're trying we're trying to figure it all out here so uh that would be you know that would from a vulnerability perspective the fact that the audits are coming or the first audit is uh the initial report is is done and uh you know that that's encouraging so don't don't have anything based on esd per se in this case all right so austin um austin has another another item and uh he says i'm probably not thinking about this correctly but humor me anyway does generalized convert functionality reduce the value propo proposal in the say that's proposal of a protocol integrating with the silo to create a black hole for their token or lp token [Music] i think it actually works in the opposite direction so let's say that there are all these deposited beans in the silo that people want to take advantage of so if i have token x and i want to fund or incentivize liquidity in a b x pool what i can do is i can lots of pod exchanges happening now oh wow that's cool um but what i can do is i can take the asset that i have and then convert deposited beans into lp with that asset assuming that those lp tokens are also in the silo and so what you're basically going to be able to do is take advantage of all of the deposited beans that are in the silo as liquidity against your other token for example and so that's the it kind of works in the opposite direction where the generalized convert is actually what facilitates that that black hole for their token all right so a couple other questions um so i'm going to ask you first i'm going to ask a just a quick um point of clarification we we do the hour right or do you you alright with going over or yeah we can always run a couple minutes longer no problem if there are questions we can keep answering them cool all right because i'm seeing two in the chat uh one is from beanbankman refried and he says i've noticed some confusion with the farms in our branding uh she's okay i've noticed some confusion with the farms in our branding misleading people to think of us as a typical yield farm which could be off-putting for some people that don't yield farm thoughts on branding changes to put the stable more in the forefront and not leading with the farm for example beanstalk for the farm's twitter handle so claire clarifying essentially clarifying between what beanstalk does in a more typical yield farming d5 scenario well so the other thing to clarify is beanstalk farms is the development organization and it's really like it's not necessarily the best name so what i would just say on this front is making sure that we have a clear brand is essential but i am not the guy to talk about this so these beans is the guy to talk about this or to talk to about this so not sure if these you wanted to hop up here and answer that or if you know maybe you just want to address it at another time if you're not in front of a mic or whatever but deez is leading the branding department and this is obviously essential that we have a strong uh first impression and so i don't think that this is uh i mean the point that you're raising being bank and free refried is is important uh and i think that there probably is a decent amount of confusion around the beanstalk farms name and so yeah everything is up for consideration for improvement is what i would say these will give you a second to hop up if you want there he is go ahead these floor is yours hey yeah can you hear me yes certainly can um yeah i i think that's a great question it's definitely something that we've been thinking about a lot in the past uh month and a half uh two months is just working with beanstalk so uh i think the public is they set it up really nicely where uh beanstalk um is the dow right it's it's all the people who own um stock and against the protocol the beanstalk dow is is separate that's the silo technically and and you're right right now it's probably the best time to be absolutely specific on that so thank you for that uh further clarification but um yeah and so that's beanstalk dao and then beanstalk farms is separate from beanstalk dial just as bublis was mentioning and um i think the reasoning for that of course is another thing that uh publius please i don't want to put words in your mouth but um it's just so that we can have a place to develop uh beanstalk the protocol in a quick fashion and having the dow support and govern unchain beanstalk farms and as we do the branding especially as we uh push out the new branding for the website we're hoping to have specific branding for beanstalk farms and then just being stuck itself um but yeah those are definitely different and hopefully just as you said we'll definitely brand those differently on the twitter yeah and even maybe changing the name of beanstalk farms makes sense yeah maybe you could say there's no sacred cows that beanstalk farms so including the name probably can't change the name of beanstalk the protocol but beyond that i mean d's convinced us to change the logo right so it's like very open-minded you started talking about um the golden ratio and you know fibonacci i was i was thoroughly entranced good stuff uh good stuff coming from d's and team yeah i was i was quite impressed by publius and how willing they were to uh um go along with the revamp but that's definitely a good point and maybe that's something that we could even ask uh pull up to the dow is um if they might think or if we all might think that beanstalk farms we just want to change that as well because we definitely can and that'd be uh to figure out that and like the naming of that is definitely now before we do the rebranding or apply it so that's definitely an open discussion all right next so we've got bean counter who asks is it possible to release the amnesia otter or the omniscient report when it's completed and vulnerabilities are addressed and says in parentheses it's okay if not if they have some sort of restrictions or nda yeah so the hope is for something definitely to be published um i'm going to tread very lightly with my comments here but you know the short answer is over the past couple of weeks you know while the retainer fundraiser has been filling we've been a little bit disappointed with the the back and forth with amnesia just trying to get the latest bips updated and getting to a point where all the code will be updated and so we're thinking about trying to get them to publish a report saying that the initial audit that they did we fixed those changes while acknowledging that beanstalk has since changed because getting them to audit all the changes may end up being too much for them and you know that would obviously change the strategy around the fundraiser and whether that should continue but i don't think we want to have that conversation necessarily just yet but there is a little bit of ambiguity as to what exactly we're going to end up getting published from omnisha just because i think there is a little bit of friction at the moment where you know we again we don't want to speak poorly about anybody but um yeah just trying to make sure that we're we're getting what the dow signed up for and you know not getting uh you know not getting anything less it's very fair so i guess now i understanding there's some friction i don't want to necessarily belabor the point but um i guess what runs through my mind is with that thought in mind um and there's no friction around the contents of the audit i would just say yeah the audit itself is that that if anything would be the place where we're like yeah that's that's all good so it's more around like we're pushing codes so frequently it's a little bit difficult for for i think for them to keep up and that's that's causing the problems is what i would say so does does the retainer solve that well that was what we we had hoped the retainer was going to solve but it's like that's what in practices has been a little bit disappointing so that's what we're trying to figure out it's like unclear gotcha all right yeah and again you know this is like we feel very much an obligation to be transparent with everyone and so it's one of those things where obviously sub-optimal but you know it is what it is very fair all right looking through the class discussion looks like we've got some kind of follow-up comments but no new questions so i'll throw it out as a a final opportunity looks like tb hopped up tb what can we do for you well i had a good question could you speak a little bit to our possible integration with fiat dao and uh sort of the the effects of that on bean stock and and kind of uh the potential for that partnership a little bit yeah so i think we'll be speaking a lot more substantively about it tomorrow in the fiat twitter spaces which we'd encourage everyone to come hang out in uh but at its surface what fiat would enable is the ability to take out a loan against your pots so effectively you'd be able to lend assets to beanstalk and then take out a loan against the debt which is really cool so needless to say when we talk about being stock becoming a core financial primitive within d5 having the ability to take your pods and take out leverage against them is a major step in that direction so the hope is for all the assets within beanstalk to eventually be depositable in other protocols and potentially used for leverage but uh using fiat dow for zero coupon bonds uh which is what they specialize in is really awesome because it would enable pods so that's what we'll be talking a little bit more about with them tomorrow and uh yeah that's that's another really cool example of uh some sort of validity from other protocols in addition to afrofinance which is launching a bean integration soon where other protocols are starting thank you all right we're a couple minutes over on the hour so i'll open it up one more time for anybody from the floor anything uh to drop last minute into the chat okay seeing and hearing nothing always appreciate everybody's time publius appreciate your time uh always great questions thank you so much for uh for coming along and and hanging out with us this evening and uh yeah we'll let everybody go and i think we'll see a lot of you here probably thursday night have a good night everybody thanks you