- Announcements and Updates
- Will Beanstalk live on its own one day without active governance? E.g. Is there a goal to reduce protocol governance over time? Why or why not?
- When the TWAP is >1, wouldn’t we be better off waiting for the next season where TWAP < 1 to increase the weather?
- When soil is low, does it make sense to send new sows into the fundraiser?
- Does it make sense to measure demand for soil by measuring change in pod rate?
- Can you walk through the flow of assets in the example of using Beans to bet on Sunday football?
- Should we continue with the concept of fungible seeds?
- Question on the roadmap: What advantages are there for incorporating things like Uniswap v3 into the Silo?
- How attractive is stalk as collateral when considering the possible volatility in the pricing of stalk and the novelness of stalk and the unlimited supply of stalk?
- Do you know of any protocols that accept 1155 tokens as collateral types?
- Audit progress?
- Should we change the peg to an inflation-resistant oracle?
- Any Twitter Spaces / Marketing things coming up?
- In this edition of Beanstalk A&T, we cover topics like:
- Beanstalk governance’s future
- Musings on how best to adjust weather
- Fungible seeds
- Exploring Stalk as collateral
- and more...
Announcements and Updates
- We have a new homepage with a Launch App functionality!
Will Beanstalk live on its own one day without active governance? E.g. Is there a goal to reduce protocol governance over time? Why or why not?
- Beanstalk requires governance because Beanstalk needs to be flexible, and we use governance to remain flexible
When the TWAP is >1, wouldn’t we be better off waiting for the next season where TWAP < 1 to increase the weather?
- At the highest level, Beanstalk depends on its ability to attract creditors
- The more consistent demand there is for soil, the tighter our peg will be in the long run
- So the question is: How can we create a system that prices soil the most efficiently?
- Weather has continued to rise because for the past few months Bean has been below $1 for the most part
- We think the weather should theoretically be higher right now as people are not eating up the fundraiser to sow (though this could be a visibility problem), indicating that we need to increase the incentive to sow (i.e. increase the weather)
- Issuing too much soil while bean was above peg was a problem in November when bean was minting a lot
- Through BIP-6 and BIP-9, changed have already been made to adjust for this
- When the price is below $1, that means there was a time-weighted-average-excess of beans over the previous season. In that case, Beanstalk needs to remove beans from the system, so it issues soil so people buy beans from the market and lock them up in the field. In this case, Beanstalk should issue soil to match that time-weighted-average-excess to return the price of bean to peg by removing that exact amount of time-weighted-average-excess from the pool
- When the price is above $1, that means there was a time-weighted-average-shortage of beans over the previous season. If at the start of the season, Beanstalk, say, pays off 50,000 pods at the beginning of a season, then the max amount of pods Beanstalk is willing to issue is 50,000 pods, thus increasing supply will keeping pod line the same, thus decreasing the pod rate
- Since these updates, the amount of soil from season to season can be minimal or not minimal
- When it is minimal, this may cause problems because the gas fee makes it not worth it to pay gas to take like 80 soil
When soil is low, does it make sense to send new sows into the fundraiser?
- The fundraiser only takes USDC, but Beanstalk could sell the beans we get from the new sows for USDC for this purpose. Interesting idea to explore
Does it make sense to measure demand for soil by measuring change in pod rate?
- The change in pod rate is a much more loaded data point
- Measuring soil is higher fidelity, as the pod rate can move for reasons unrelated to soil demands (it is affected by weather)
Can you walk through the flow of assets in the example of using Beans to bet on Sunday football?
- Newly minted beans have no grown stalk associated with them (so there’s less opportunity cost to use them), so these lower opportunity cost beans are good candidates to be used for things like betting
- Meanwhile the higher opportunity cost beans would ideally be converted to LP
- In order for betting to happen, Bean would have to be whitelisted on a betting protocol
- Could potentially integrate with betting protocol at such a deep level that you would never have to exit the bean farm to place and settle bets
Should we continue with the concept of fungible seeds?
- Ultimately the goal is maximum flexibility
- Fungible seeds cause a loss of flexibility because hypothetically, if we are going to take away gauge from a pool (e.g. going forward we don’t want to award any grown stock from the pool), you basically can’t do that if you keep seeds as fungible because once you allot seeds to a pool, stalk can be accumulated on a permanent basis
- Once you make seeds fungible you can’t go back. You can make stalks fungible regardless
- In such a construct, we may abstract seeds away, as it kind of is just an internal accounting item (it just grows stalk)
- In this construct the system would be more flexible because stalk rewards can be adjusted without distortion from seed transfers
- In the ideal state, Stalkholders can, through the gauge system, elect to stop awarding grown stalk to a given pool in favor of another pool, so as to allocate awards to the assets that are benefiting Beanstalk the most
- As described above, need seeds to be nonfungible or abstract them away entirely to make this work
Question on the roadmap: What advantages are there for incorporating things like Uniswap v3 into the Silo?
- It’s very attractive for Beanstalk to accept arbitrary assets and this is just one step in the direction to enable cool things in the future like one-sided liquidity
How attractive is stalk as collateral when considering the possible volatility in the pricing of stalk and the novelness of stalk and the unlimited supply of stalk?
- Stalk is yield-bearing, and we have seen that defi has demand for collateral that is yield-bearing
- Stalk has a theoretical hard cap ceiling price = price to a bean because you can always deposit a bean and get 1 stalk
- Stalk doesn’t necessarily have a floor price, could be 0
- Stalk price should stabilize over time as people get a sense of how to price stalk and model out the future growth of beans
- Also, stalk price is resistant to bean price drops because a bean price drop would likely be associated with silo withdrawals, which would mean stalk is burnt, which means stalk supply goes down, so stalk price would have upwards pressure from that
Do you know of any protocols that accept 1155 tokens as collateral types?
- We don’t know off the top of our head, but the idea of having
- Beanstalk being credit based has a 0 cost to mint new beans, which allows it to easily meet any demand for beans that results from integrations
- Beans being at peg is the most important thing
- The pod rate chart is awesome — you can see that the pod rate as really started to stabilize, good sign
- Omniscia is underway — they sent us the beginnings of a preliminary report which was positive (no glaring issues)
- We are going through making the very minor tweaks that they have recommended
- Since we keep pushing BIPs it’ll take a bit for them to review the most updated code
- Marketing idea: What if we have something like “Frens with BeaNFTs”
- This is hilarious, we should explore doing it
Should we change the peg to an inflation-resistant oracle?
- If we did this this would basically be a different currency, we can create Beans pegged to a variety of assets in the long run and mint the ones with more demand
- This is in the long term — right now we are focusing on USD
Any Twitter Spaces / Marketing things coming up?
- Next week we have a Twitter space with Roon, hopefully the first of many
so welcome to uh beanstalk a t university this is a weekly class where you can ask questions uh directly to publius about any questions you have about beanstalk um and uh yeah we're all here to learn uh there are no stupid questions and uh yeah we'll go ahead and kick it off how you doing publius what's up y'all uh so you can feel free to raise your hand if you want to ask a question you can also drop it in the uh in the classroom sorry forgot it's called the um the the chat here and uh i'll read questions you can also dm them to me so uh looks like most people here probably know the drill so uh yeah we'll get this uh get this kicked off see if we have any questions uh in the in the chat here last discussion class discussion okay we got a question from uh pubis i always have questions will beanstalk live on its own one day without active governance for example is there a goal to reduce protocol governance over time why or why not well it defines what you mean by governance ultimately beanstalk is designed requiring a 50 majority of stock to make any changes to be really resistant to change in general at its early stage it's a little bit easier to change because of concentration of stock ownership in the small community which it seems like for the most part everyone is relatively in agreement about the direction of beanstalk but as the community and the system grows and things get a little bit more divided the system is designed such that it will be changed minimally and that so the question of will it require active governance or will it have active governance or somewhat different uh it requires governance because the goal of being stuck is to be flexible uh and once you have a strong credit history using governance to uh remain flexible uh while minimally changing the protocol is ultimately the goal we're still at the stage where uh and there's been a fruitful discussion in the questions channel about the weather for example and maybe uh being bankman refried uh we see you're here uh you may want to hop up here and we can talk about that in depth but the goal is for as the model itself gets more and more refined to be changed less and less but the requirement for governance is likely to always be there to retain the flexibility that will hopefully allow beanstalk to become an issuer of money in a general sense uh beanbag but yeah okay you just topped up okay do we have some some questions being bank then yeah i didn't want to put you on the spot either but just you know was very pleased with the discussion you were raising and i think it's fruitful for us to continue the discussion in a little bit more long form if you're willing but i don't think we can hear you i can't hear you but i do see your your pfp lighting up um wonder what's going on okay you're not server muted so it's probably it's probably dealing with your mic i'm also if you want to type it out for now i could read it well it'd be better if they fixed their mic so we can have a great but maybe a good discussion but we're happy to wait um and then in the meantime maybe we can answer another question or two while they figure it out can you hear me now all right awesome um hey just to follow up on on our discussion there publius um um you know the the question i have is just narrowly looking at that that scenario across three seasons right it doesn't seem like um when the t lap is over one um wouldn't we be better off just waiting for another season or or for the t-vap to actually go under one to then increase the weather as opposed to making that that decision to increase the weather um just just just using the fact that the the sores you know there was no sow during that particular season i'm not sure if that completely makes sense and i do know that i need to go back to the white paper to look at it at more context with the soil well regardless of how clear the question may have been phrased it's the right question to be asking and maybe to put put things into context there were a couple consecutive seasons that being uh highlighted in the in the questions channel i believe where there were consecutive seasons above one for with the two up above one uh in one season beans were sown uh and then the following season the weather was decreased three percent uh and then the following season even though the t walk was above one there were no beans zone and therefore the weather increased one and their question is well if the t wap is above one why are we still raising the weather right right that's great so it's important to understand the the overall goal of the weather change system before we decide in a particular scenario what the right weather changes to make so at a very high level beanstalk is dependent on its ability to attract creditors uh as some people have pointed out in the questions channel uh siloing uh assets also helps the protocol significantly and so it doesn't necessarily mean that beanstalk only needs uh sellers it can also benefit from silo members and making the silo attractive but from a pure economics perspective bean stock is credit based and the tighter uh maybe i should say in a different way the the more demand and the more consistent demand there is for soil the tighter beings will maintain their peg in the long run and so from a theoretical perspective the question is how can we create a system that uh prices soil the most efficiently and there have been a couple different models like the basis model for example uh is that every period they have to clear their equivalent of soil and people can place bids on the soil but whatever the highest bid is is ultimately going to be the clearing price and the problem with some model like that even though it allows the market to price the soil is that in a in a season or in a time period where there's really no demand for soil someone is going to be at point zero zero zero zero zero zero one uh percent or something and bankrupt the system effectively and so if you ever have a period where you have no demand the system is entirely beanstalk instead can with withstand short or longer periods of time where there's no demand for soil for whatever reason there may be a larger market crash there may be a black swan event there could be a million different things but in general beanstalk takes a different approach to setting the weather and allowing the market to set the weather specifically by measuring every season demand for soil and then figuring out based on that demand for soil and the price and the debt level whether or not being stock should increase or decrease the weather and therefore even though demand for soil is one of the things obviously the price and the debt level need to factor into a more sophisticated weather change mechanism now i think it's important to highlight that from a like from a macro perspective if we just look at the chart and see how the weather has actually performed from launch it kind of makes sense in the grand scheme of things that after the initial pump and dump the weather was continuously rising until mid-november when there was a really excess demand for soil for an extended period of time when the price was above one and we saw the weather start to decrease during that period of time however because the soil and this is something we've talked about in the past because the minimum soil was an inefficient parameter the pod rate was actually decreasing during that time even though the weather was decreasing and so beanstalk ended that period of time in november and december early december with a higher pod rate than before and that's why the weather i mean in theory should have started to increase again because the system is actually in a less healthy spot now with that said the weather it makes sense to some extent has continued to rise because over the past couple months beans have been for the most part below the pack and i think the more interesting period of time to analyze is over the past couple weeks as the price has been at or oscillating above and below peg that the weather has continued to rise more or less at a similar pace to what it was rising at before when the weather was uh or when the price was continuously below adult not exactly the same rate but similarly high and that is very clearly inefficient or sub-optimal so the question becomes well maybe you can put a band-aid fix on it because of these extra circumstances but to date we've really refrained from any sort of band-aids or anything of the sort and have tried instead to make longer-term changes to the model especially in instances where there isn't like an immediate impetus to make the change and i would use the data point that there's a ton of uh not technically soil but in theory soil uh for the fundraiser that's available right now that isn't being eaten up even at the current weather that is an indicator that in theory you know given that beanstalk wants to attract demand for soil when it needs to the weather should be higher at the moment so in you know in my opinion and this is an opinion the weather from a macro perspective should continue to rate go higher in the short term and therefore there's nothing like worth changing the model it's not worth changing the model in the short term over the next week or two with a band-aid given that it should probably be increasing anyways and therefore instead the question becomes you know how can we use this time to really refine the weather change model and the demand for soil uh model and i think that is a very interesting question and to date not to treat our own horns certainly but if you look at some of the previous bits that strategy of uh taking our time uh to make you know one-time changes that are ultimately beneficial has been a a good a good way to conduct uh bips thus far and i think for those reasons we're not inclined to rush into anything but and i know this is getting into a long answer but maybe to give a little bit of color on how i'm or how we're thinking about demand for soil uh and the weather changes going forward uh you know there is something to be said for like uh beyond excessively high debt level like a fifth category such that when the when the pod rate is so so high the weather starts to decrease in its you know the rate at which it increases is decreased so maybe instead of up three percent every season you could have up one percent but that's not a particularly elegant solution to say the least um but it's something we're thinking about um i think in terms of a more elegant solution it's important to put into context how the soil has changed and why that has an effect on demand for soil so at launch and again this wasn't necessarily optimal in fact it was certainly sub-optimal the soil accumulated significantly over time and therefore the model of measuring the raw demand for soil on apples to apple spaces from season to season made sense in almost every instance except for when there was really excessive demand for soil and even then because there was a high minimum soil more or less you were going to be fine and therefore the way of comparing season to season soil made a lot of sense now you have a fundamentally different season a system where every season beanstalk only mints uh the amount of soil either necessary to return it the price to the peg based on the current the previous seasons time weighted average excess of beans in the pool or a minimal amount of soil based on the amount of pods that were harvested in the weather and therefore there's sometimes a lot of soil sometimes a little bit of soil but the amount of soil from season to season isn't nearly consistent enough to necessarily use the measurement of demand for soil uh back-to-back seasons as the best measure of demand and that would indicate that maybe you're better off using an average but then you start to lose the accuracy of the weather changes now furthermore you have a real problem in the sense that since since now you have kind of a fixed amount of soil every season that's somewhat random uh you you run into a fee issue right which is a friction that even though right now you could make an argument that and i did make the argument that the the because of the fundraiser there there's evidently not a lot of demand for soil but you could also make the argument that there's not a lot of demand for soil because there's only 83 soil right now and who's going to pay 50 to sow 80 beans um which is totally reasonable and so you know one of the things that needs to be taken into account in the new demand for soil model is that when the t-wop was greater than one over the previous season uh there may be very very minimal soil and therefore the idea that you're going to raise the weather over the net you know the start of the next season even if there was 10 soil it's like well that probably doesn't make the most sense so i mean these are some of the things that we're thinking about on the kind of the quest to coming up with a more efficient way to measure demand for soil and you know i'd i don't have anything definitive at the moment to say unfortunately but it's like we recognize it's currently an inefficiency in the model uh as i was saying before i don't think that in the from a macro perspective the system is directionally acting incorrectly and therefore don't think it's the end of the world and more inclined to continue to think it over to come up with like an optimal long-term solution but it's not so simple and you know very open to what people have to say and their thoughts but those are some of the things that we've been thinking about on this front [Music] thanks publish for the detailed answer um a quick follow-up and and somewhat related um the fundraiser um i'm not sure if there's a visibility problem in in sower's understanding that it's essentially the same parts that they get um but there does seem to be some sowing happening in when when t lab is greater than one um i mean i'm making an assumption there based on that that example that i shared earlier but um um does it make sense for beanstalk to then make the decision um that when t-bop is greater than one and if there's an open fundraiser maybe send it towards the fundraiser as opposed to um you know towards uh well the issue is that the fundraiser needs usdc in this instance and so really the question is should beanstalk take the beans that are sown and sell them into usdc and a currently that's not you know that would require a bip it's not necessarily a bad idea um [Music] you know but from from a general market perspective the way beanstalk is constructed constructed is it assumes people are going to be you know efficient actors at least you know in a minor sense right like this is this is the type of action that the protocol assumes people will figure out at some point even if it takes a little while whereas you know the goal is to have beanstalk do as little direct selling on the market as possible but this is actually an interesting idea okay i believe it was something we thought about in the initial fundraiser discussion when we were figuring out how to structure it but ultimately decided against it got it there also might be some psychology with oh sorry go ahead beanbagman no i was just saying that's all i had oh god i got it i was just thinking there might be some psychology with there being so much available that people might not be rushing in but if there was you know if we did it in five fifty thousand dollar chunks maybe people would uh you know think oh i better get this before someone else does um whereas when there's a lot people might not wanna i mean the expectation that the soil will become available that makes it kind of the same thing so it does it does but it just seems like oh you know there's no rush and maybe i'll um you know i don't know there's that kind of um yeah i mean that's where the first and first down model should really have its effect but you know that you know this is all theoretical economics so from a behavioral perspective that may not be the behavioral that is currently being carried out and it's okay to acknowledge that right there's nothing wrong with that uh and from a ui or a ux perspective we can try to make it a lot more clear what you can do to incentivize or encourage that type of uh you know behavior not incentivize it but show where the incentives lie uh to encourage that if more efficient behavior but ultimately the protocol should do as little of that as possible make sense mod hi guys um before asking my question i i also agree with the with the fundraiser versus uh selling thing we're assuming that you know which could be true that because we're not getting uh fundraising that there's no demand for soil but it might be just confusing for whoever is coming in that they don't understand what the fundraiser is or it might be like something different so they'll be like let's stick to the um to the field um my question publius is does it make sense to instead of measuring demand for soil or we measure demand for soil through change in debt so right now as as you sell um on debt or you know we're selling soil that that increases so if we're looking at the increase in debt it's the same thing um can can we do that i understand that when we're above uh um one and you know um if we're if we're not issuing that or we're not selling soil then we don't measure it but if we if we just look at the change in that instead of demand for soil is that one way to to to measure um the demand for it well you can do whatever you want right we can come up with an arbitrary measurement system now the measuring the change in the odd rate and you could do it from the beginning of one season to the beginning of the next season or from the beginning you know from the end of the season to the beginning or the beginning to the end there's a couple different ways that you could choose to measure it so it's entirely arbitrary but when you do use the pod rate instead of the like the change in soil which is the current system you you lose some fidelity in the data in the sense that there's an abstract there's a change in the weather each season and then you're also factoring in the time weighted average axis or shortage of beans and so it's a more like the change in the pod rate is a more uh [Music] loaded data point might be the way to say it it includes a lot more data points within it and therefore you could make an argument it's a better thing to use to make changes to the weather because the pod rate is ultimately the main thing that should determine the health of the system but this is actually a key point right beanstalk doesn't make assumptions about well the pod rate came down and therefore the weather should come down like no what if what if the padre came down but something happened and now there's a huge risk risk on or risk off event in the market and for whatever reason people decide soil is less attractive right for having nothing to do with anything else related to beanstalk some external event um beanstalk specifically doesn't make the causal relationship and say because the pod rate is lower now the weather should be lower that's theoretically true but beanstalk doesn't say that instead it looks at well every season we can and again the problem is that now that there's uh an in inconsistent amount of soil every season it's not as accurate but at least in theory what beanstalk currently does is it it measures how much demand actually is there for the soil in comparison season to season as its highest fidelity measurement on whether or not you know the weather is appropriately priced and in the world where the weather is appropriately priced you would expect all or almost all of the soil to be sewn and the almost all is where we actually run into the issue because the almost all is like the friction point below which it may not be efficient to sew independent of the weather because of gas fees and you know it's very clear that in its current size beanstalk is suffering from that or or or maybe uh to some extent you know as a if combined with the fact that people are unclear about the existence of the weather but candidly this is actually a problem that's likely to persist because even if beanstalk increases 100x in its supply the weather may also come down 100x over that period of time and therefore the actual benefit um you know in that scenario would actually decrease on a dollar to dollar basis so it's like the the measure the system by which the weather is changed in soil is measured or maybe the pod rate is measured um again not inclined to do that because already you have the tea off and the pod rate included in the system um i think soil is very important measuring in creating an efficient beanstalk weather chain system but ultimately there are no wrong well there are no there are definitely wrong answers but don't have any right answers at the moment either i i agree with you that um the the default rate um as a value uh uh doesn't doesn't work but the change in the pod rate is literally equal to the change in demand in soil i mean the podrak can only increase if you're selling yeah sorry well if you're talking about just during a season right so now you're saying the change in the pod rate over one season and then comparing it to the next season and that's effectively the same thing as demand for soil but now you're also including the change in the weather and therefore you may have some instances where because the weather change your measurement is slightly less correct than it otherwise would be if you were just using soil correct yes you're right and and because we're looking at the change uh which which is which is looking at it i'm not season over season doesn't this kind of solve the same thinking that we were saying then if the pod rate is really high but the increase in it is not not not as high then the weather increases slower than how much it increases up there did you see it would affect like unless you're changing the weather changes as a function of this um let's say you were just doing like a replacement you're now saying instead of demand for soil we're going to look at the change in the pod rate um during each season and compare them over season to season like in practice that wouldn't actually have any effect on the outcome no sorry i didn't i didn't mean to compare it season over season so you're you're always comparing the change in the pod rate compared to the absolute value of the pod rate uh and if if the pod rate is only increasing let's say by you know 50 000 when when when it's 600 million so it won't have an effect on the pod rate as much as you know if it's increasing by 1 million over 600 million i'm not sure if i'm clear not sure if i follow you but i think yeah i'm not sure i follow you yeah so remember earlier when uh you just said an idea is to reduce the rate of the weather increasing as the pod rate increases correct so if we look at the the the rate at which the quadrat is increasing in comparison to you know in compared to the whole of the pod rates so then we it kind of gives us the same thing where then we'll be like okay then it doesn't we don't have to increase the weather that much or the rate of increase of the weather decreases because the rate of increase in the pod rate compared to the absolute value of the pod rate is is low or lower yeah again i think the key thing to realize here is that we have to balance practical practicality in the sense that there are frictions and fees with a core model that is based in like fundamental economics and at its core beanstalk requires there to be demand for soil in basically every circumstance and so with the exception of when you have uh soil below a threshold such that there's too much friction for people to sew and i think that case needs to be handled in some capacity which is not easy to do um probably not inclined to radically overhaul the mechanism by moving to like a pod rate based system or a delta pod rate based system but again there's no wrong answer here per se um but you know i'm not sure that's the direction to head okay one last question um sorry i the question just i seem to have forgotten i'll come back when i remember it okay no problem all right uh the floor is open next question hey um so i have a potentially very basic and fundamental question but is one that i've sort of been struggling to figure out on my own and will hopefully be helpful for others so publius you've spoken before one example of being an application of its utility in the future would be using being spent on sunday football can you just walk through the flow of assets in a scenario like that like like how am i borrowing beans to make to place my bets and then depositing the beans from my like if i win the bet am i depositing the winnings into the silo how does that all work and if i'm if i'm removing beans from the salad to make the bet how does that affect stock and seed does that make sense yeah it does make sense so in short there is and it's important to delineate in general the stock system is designed such that assets that are in the silo for longer periods of time are likely to stay there that stickiness is particularly meaningful for liquidity pool tokens in theory um now beans and this is the reason why beans are constantly paid out as interest those newer beings don't have any grown stock associated with them at the start and therefore those newer beings have a lower opportunity cost to be used so the hope is that there's lots of lower opportunity cost beans that people want to use and then the higher opportunity cost beans are being converted to lp if you will such that they're not forfeiting larger stock and so the goal and again you may have circulating beans you may have uh some sort of integration between the silo and a lending pool such that you could borrow against beans in the lending pool that are in the silo and in a fully fledged being ecosystem in theory you could even have raft assets on the bean farm that you use as collateral against that loan but maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves um but the general point is in some way you you take beans out of the system you borrow from the system you withdraw them from the silo or you buy them on the open market and now you have beans um in order for beans to be used to get to bed on sunday football in theory um they would need to be accepted uh on a bedding protocol uh like poly market or auger which uh to the best of my knowledge use a white list and so let's say that beans are white listed on one of these platforms and let's also say that there's a nice user interface uh with which to use your beans uh to bet on any of these markets you would then either go and start to make your own market or you know use your beans in an existing market but it would be placing a bet through this ui um and you know connected through your ethereum wallet effectively so the level at which that bedding can be integrated into the bean farm or the the silo could be infinite to some extent to the point where you may have a betting protocol that is integrated with the bean farm to to the extent that you never need to actually withdraw your acids from the bean farm but that's you know a further more sophisticated vision and you know the the roadmap the architecturally laid out in the roadmap will facilitate that but um step by step is how we would get there perfect thanks at the end of the last dow meeting there was a fruitful discussion on the future of future of the seed and the one big open question that was also in the road map that you recently published since the last ama um i wonder if you want to talk a little bit about the big open question and the the benefits and the downsides to maybe saying goodbye to the seeds sure so one of the big discussions that's worth having and it was started to a large extent in the dow meeting on thursday is whether or not to continue to go forward with the concept of fungible seeds fungible stock is a no-brainer but as as we've been thinking about how beanstalk will operate hopefully for years and years in a multi-chain uh ecosystem and how beanstalk should position itself ultimately the goal is for maximum flexibility such that no pools are necessarily permanently included in the silo for whatever reason and the issue with and and maybe one of the things to say before we get into the issue is the gauge system that is outlined in the white paper where pools can be added to receive stock and seeds or stock and grown stock um in a world without seats you would still receive grown stock um that system loses a lot of flexibility and this is where the problem lies if you have fungible seeds because you can deposit in any of these pools uh receive your functional seeds and then even if the pool gets deprecated you're still receiving grown stock and therefore there's no way for beanstalk to really deprecate a pool in any capacity whereas if you get rid of fungible seeds beanstalk can turn off the faucet in a given pool such that there stops being grown stock awarded to that given pool and therefore people may choose to retain their assets there which aren't receiving growing stock or they may convert it to another asset uh that continues to receive grown stock or they may withdraw and forfeit their grown stock but the idea is that uh that will allow for a lot more flexibility within the system and if you have fungible feeds you do lose that so the the discussion is whether to march ahead with the original vision to have fungal stock and fungible seeds and the main you know if we were to steal man that argument the main reason for that to retain that is there's a lot of beauty in having an ecosystem with two different assets that are futures on the growth of the system with radically different risk and return profiles i guess not risk profiles but certainly return profiles and time horizons over which those returns would be expected and therefore you could have a nice interplay where people can trade the stock to seed ratio based on their expectations of when beans are going to be minted that's really cool i mean it would it would kind of stink to lose that but at the same time it's important to realize what beanstalk is trying to achieve in the grand scheme of things and therefore i think you know we would we would probably make the argument that retaining maximal flexibility is probably the way to go got it that makes a lot of sense hey good evening good morning where everybody wherever wherever you guys are do you hear me okay dumpling i hear you're great okay great um publius i was just reading the road map um very very well done um i'm still going back and reading it just to try to get a full picture uh one thing i noticed um and i just wanted to clarify uh in one part of the roadmap document it was mentioned that non-fungible tokens uh for example uniswap v3 lp tokens may also be incorporated into the silo at some point i was curious for your thoughts on that because of the way uniswap v3 works with concentrated liquidity and what advantages you see from potentially incorporating um that in the silo and were you thinking um like being trading against other stable coins as an example of that and would if that were the case would somebody like um an lusd holder or whatever other stable coin that may be incorporated in the future uh would would um depositors be able to essentially offer um or provide a single-sided liquidity uh to the silo in that case and how would that work thank you so if you have something like uniswap v3 then in theory a you could add concentrated one-sided liquidity or however you'd like in theory um within the restrictions of uniswap v3 that is but it's pretty flexible now it's important to state the reason even though v3 existed when beanstalk was launched beanstalk initially used unit swap v2 and now use this curve is that those are both uh use a continuous constant product amm and uh that's much more useful for uh both minting and continuous liquidity when the goal is to minimize a run on the bank and it's a lot more sophisticated just to state the problem to integrate and specifically figure out what is the be denominated value of a given liquidity pool position per se in a v3 structure where you can add somewhat arbitrary liquidity at arbitrary concentrations and so the question is what's the beat what's the bdb formula um per se and uh it's not not necessarily so trivial now it's very attractive to have beanstalk accept arbitrary liquidity pools that have different structures not just like a constant product amm for example or a stable swap amm which is curve um so it's like ultimately we want the silo to accept really arbitrary assets and this is just one step in the direction to enable lots of different cool things like one-sided liquidity like you were suggesting but that's not as we were saying before necessarily the most symbiotic with the core mechanism and therefore it's not the highest priority either great thanks hey mr manifold good morning good evening hey everyone um so my question uh publius is is twofold um so i know we've spoken about stock as a collateral type um and as stock becomes fungible you know implementing stock as collateral in various protocols and integrations and whatnot um so my my first question is you know how do you view the attractiveness of stock as a collateral type when considering you know the possible volatility in the pricing of stock um and the uncertainty of a collateral type that you know frankly it seems pretty novel right and you know there's unlimited supply of stock um and just like you know do you have general views on how you'd expect you know stock to play out as a collateral type um and and kind of act in the market that's a great question i mean the first thing to note is that stock is guild bearing yeah or yield generating and one of the things that defy has seen a preponderance of over the past year plus is a desire to be able to take out loans against yields bearing assets and so the starting point is that stock because it is yield bearing even though it's not necessarily consistently yield bearing is attractive from that perspective and we would just note that also is why seeds are also attractive in theory as a collateral type because they have consistent yield in the form of consistent stocks so it's like that's another thing that you lose to some extent now stock has a at least theoretical hard cap price at one because you can always buy it being or at least has a hard cap price at the price of a bean um which isn't necessarily a dollar but because you can always deposit it being get a stock at least one stock uh you're kind of capped out at that price and you would expect arbitrage to retain uh one being as the max price of a stock now there isn't necessarily a floor price in stock stock could be worth zero for periods of time now if you look at the how luna trades for example that's probably unlikely and so given that you're gonna have a pretty tightly bound range from uh above zero to less than one i think stock is a pretty interesting collateral type because it should it shouldn't trade to zero into one into zero into one uh it should trade in a slightly tighter range than that and stabilize over time as people start to get a sense of how to price stock and model out the future growth of beans and they're they're obviously related but i would say one stock really becomes more of a future on the growth of beans even if let's say the expectation is that the bean supply has to decrease in the short term before it increases or whatever it may be you're not gonna have a scenario or at least it would be unlikely to have a scenario where in the short term the stock price tanks fifty percent unless and this is where things get really interesting unless the bean price tanks fifty percent except the bean price taking 50 percent is likely highly correlated with a lot of withdrawals from the silo and a lot of withdrawals from the silo will result in a decrease a significant decrease in the stock supply and so even when you have a decrease in the bean price there's a theoretical argument to be made that stock should increase in value relative to a bean so that should theoretically dampen its volatility now who knows how this all plays out in practice and i think stock trading and having a high level of liquidity against being uh will go a long way towards helping people price it and establish it as a collateral type but you know this is just um some thought vomit yeah that makes sense super interesting um i i think you know to your first point you know on on the yield bearing aspect of stock um i don't know if anyone else has good examples of this but you know most of like the yield bearing collateral types and d5 that i can think of that are attractive or are you know stable coins that are you know like magic internet money like looping you know your yard stable coins or anchor stable coins and things like that which they're you know which for the most part shouldn't have too much deviation or volatility so um you know curious to see how it plays out i think it's interesting to think about um so my second question it was um in terms of another collapse sorry another potential collateral type uh with uh semi-fungible lp tokens i know you spoke about um in the chat uh that lp positions are potentially going to be erc 721s i'm sorry um and i guess my question is do you know um of any protocols currently using or implementing 1155s as collateral types um and or and or you know is that something that would be attractive for you know a protocol to come in a partner to kind of support that as a client type for beat stock so off the top of my head i don't i don't actually know of any protocols that accept 1155s as collateral types but i also haven't looked at it so i it's just a question of not it's an it's a question of ignorance um with regards to the attraction of using lp tokens or being depo lp deposits or beam deposits as collateral that's interesting certainly and i think the goal i mean what you highlighted about maybe finding a partner to enable that if if there's not currently the ability to have 1155s used as collateral like that that'd be dope as so uh yeah love what you're thinking about on that front cool we'll look into it uh that's all thanks guys uh from the class discussion yeah maybe i would maybe just say uh there's also talk with fiat dao about using pods as collateral and so you guys can get a sense of how powerful this whole ecosystem can start to be if all of its acids are fungible and can be used in other protocols as collateral and beanstalk has a costume and beams of basically zero and so it can grow infinitely into that demand that is caused by its integration of all of its fungible assets or semi-functional uh you know that's a good way to put put it manifold uh all of its assets so this is i hope you know we're doing a decent job of communicating how this may all come together and the roadmap is the step-by-step for how all this architecture needs to get built to enable it certainly yeah um i think the more that you start to think about these things and it does get very exciting when you think about the whole ecosystem that can be built yeah and i mean i would just maybe also highlight the fact that beans are a peg that's the most important thing and more than that if we oh and i have to click the launch app here how cool is that um but if we go to the pod rate chart to me this is where a picture is worth a thousand words you you can really see that the pod rate has started to stabilize and so if you think of the debt level as the overall health metric of the system and you combine that with the fact that beans have started to really oscillate much more tightly above and below a dollar and it seems like that's going to continue to happen uh that has afforded us the opportunity to to think a little bit more big picture and work on things like the road map and think think about things like stock and seed fungibility so it's it's a very exciting time and uh we we we want to just make make sure that there's sufficient openness and documentation such that everyone can participate in whatever capacity they want to help make this vision a reality um next question comes from rex he's saying hey are there any updates on the initial amnesia audit or the or word from trail of bits so trail of bits hasn't been started yet uh i believe we're scheduled for a couple weeks down the road early april or something i'd have to check the calendar um but omnisha is underway they sent us like the beginnings of a preliminary report uh which were very positive in the sense that there wasn't any clearing issues that they found uh so that's good and we're now starting the process of going through and making the minor tweaks that they want to see to you know for example inefficient use of safe math or whatever it may be or you know if being stuck lasts a thousand years that the seasons might overflow um those are good problems to have in our eyes so uh minor tweaks like that um obviously since we keep pushing pips uh it it's gonna be a couple weeks to say the least until uh they're kind of fully audited the latest code and uh you know we haven't pushed a new bib since then so not sure when that public report will happen but um we're also not going to rush them because we don't want to rush the process uh but at the same time pretty encouraged by that initial report nice that's really great to hear okay uh floor is open anyone else has questions in merchant are you somewhere you can talk also i was just gonna shout out um bean tovan got a chance to listen to your songs and yeah man that's awesome like really really cool stuff i loved it too i'll um i'll post i put one on a uh soundcloud i'll get the other ones on there so people can listen and maybe just post a i'll post a link in the general because those were really really awesome hey bientotman it's been a pleasure talking this with everybody and you know becoming part of the community i'm new to the community so you know learning every day and uh yeah happy to do what i can and hoping to do a lot more love it really uh really love it welcome to the bean farm thank you thank you it's an honor didn't mean to cut you off their stinky bait yeah thank you mate hey guys yeah just real quick i know because we've been over the past few calls i think we've marketing has been coming up and i was watching this um funny well it was it was sunny from the cosmos ecosystem and vitalik i don't know this was maybe a few months ago i was just recently watching the video of them talking about various things and sonny brought up this friends with benefits thing and it was hilarious vitale didn't know the meaning of that right away but um i was i thought about right when i was i was listening i was like you know the comment like on twitter like with crypto twitter they they instead of friends everybody refers to each other as friend f-r-e-n right and then i thought about being nfts right so what if we had something like friends with being nfts like benefits like you know what does that catch on to anybody that's hilarious oh my god what are you guys thinking about wow financial benefits yeah stuff yeah so just throwing that out there we could we could we could think about that more but i just wanted to throw that out there so yeah that's pretty good yeah i'm into that what a play on words wow our community is so cool thank you i always imagine you like sitting in a leather chair smoking your pipe thinking these things thinking deep thoughts only it was that uh no it's not usually that's the least yeah because it just turned into like a beach chair a different kind of pipe i just keep thinking like we have yeah we have just so much like the narrative of being stock there's so much to work with and that's just one great example of that so yeah the memes in the class discussion are topped tier ah this is great guys if we didn't have so much work to do we would just hang out in the discord with you all the time okay yes and i will i'll drop uh i'll drop the bean tovan songs uh because those are these are great in tovan i'm sorry i know if they're not the the version that you that you want but they're too good to i can't keep them from the community yeah maybe we got it over to to make a channel or something on on spotify for sure fun stuff we were even talking about uh tb had the idea tv was like well we should have a whole bean album i was like that's that's so awesome and there's enough material i think we could do it yeah i think uh we could have a lot of fun with that this is uh i don't know it's good to have fun guys it's good to have fun it's a lot of fun we're having a blast i'm also getting metaverse stuff from uh bean intern so that's gonna i don't know it's something there you got a last question for us hey um yeah real quick um the other day there was a spaces with um sam from frax and and uh one true kirk from world um and it looks like they were referring to uh favoring um a peg to an fbi um and i just wanted to kind of get your thoughts on um you know possibly changing the peg um to an inflation resistant oracle well it would just be a different currency like a different being pegged to a different asset that's also reliant on the credit of beanstalk the goal is not to have one being tanked to one asset instead of beans pegged to a variety of different assets that then based on market demand being stuck in issue the appropriate beans and the appropriate denominations so there's nothing to prevent that but in its current state that's an additional complexity being stock's not really ready for and instead the goal is to focus on its current bean peg maintenance and then once there really is a strong sustainability to the credit based model then you can expand to other other being denominated you know being denominations yeah i think a follow-up on that um um if if we were to have you know multiple bean denomination you know let's say a bean bean euro for example a peck to a euro right um how do you imagine the the pod line works at that point are we looking at creating an entirely new part line for um that token or is now ultimately like the let's think about how minting is going to work when we move to the b and three curve pool in addition to the unisop v2 being heath pool the delta b for minting which is currently just the time weighted average accessor shortage and liquidity weighted average i always forget that uh to add that uh in the unit swap pool it's also going to extend to the curve pool and the way it makes the most sense to combine those two time and liquidity weighted averages is to sum them and therefore if you have a time or liquid time and liquidity weighted average for another pegged asset in that case you can just add that to the delta b and then the question is just how do you denominate that soil but you denominated in beans so as long as you have a bean to be an nftpi or a bean euro as long as you have that ratio to convert that delta b for the sum there's no problem it'll just be one soil total got it that makes sense um i guess um somewhat related question to the question on marketing earlier um do you feel like you're at a spot where you can um maybe spend some more time around um you know these getting into conversations like these and twitter spaces and and things are natural because the you know i i was thinking it would be great to have a bean point of view on something you know discussion like that with uh multiple other stable coin protocols the short answer is shout out bean merchant who spent way too much time trying to get us able to use twitter spaces with our voice modifier but we can officially do that so the hope is i think bean sprout has put together the twitter spaces with roon uh for some time next week i believe and therefore you know that'll hopefully be the first of many nice looking forward to that all right it's all ahead all right yeah i'll post that um we just have a graphic coming from uh from these beans here i'll post that so that you guys can see it um without twitter spaces so that's that's really great and we want to promote that far and wide so if you guys can retweet that if you can you know whatever you can do to help promote that that's really great you want to get a lot of bean bean pfps listening in the bean army obviously will be on that so alrighty guys thank you very much thank you for the great questions and the great discussion i think beanstalk is so much better off with this this high quality discussion so uh it's fun to joke and stuff a little bit uh at the end there but uh it's it's it's very encouraging the quality of discussion and also the quality of the people that are joining beanstalk farms i think this week we added uh at least two either soon-to-be phds or soon to be phd dropouts which is i mean how cool is that so uh the iq of beanstalk farms continues to raise and it's all very exciting so thank you everyone for coming and talk to you soon okay thanks everyone you