- Announcements and Updates
- When price is above 1 and we are minting, does it make sense to stop issuing soil if we are above peg and we have a lot of debt?
- Once seed and stalk are tradable, what would be the incentive to sell seed and stalk, given you would need to buy them back in order to withdraw beans from silo?
- Why did we set 1/10000th of a Stalk to grow from each Seed every season?
- What catalyst is going to make bean more widely used?
- Given that soil is scarce right now, how do we think about requiring people to be in the Silo in order to be able to sow?
- Why shouldn’t Beanstalk favor Siloers who have locked up beans over people who haven’t?
- How would debt be valued in the pod marketplace?
- What are Beanstalk’s perspectives on the notion that “liquidity is a public good”. Could we create a yield-generating NFT that represents a claim to locked up liquidity in Beanstalk? Beanstlak could give users the option to lock up liquidity in Beanstalk, maybe for a little more stalk and seed up front, and these users would be able to claim beans that are minted to their locked up position, but wouldn’t be able to withdraw their locked deposits or the stalk and seed associated. NFTs could be issued to users who choose to do this. So NFT would represent an indefinitely locked up position in Beanstalk. And these locked deposits would benefit Beanstalk protocol as it provides a baseline continuum of liquidity for Beanstalk. However the users could still monetize these locked deposits via the NFTs because they have underlying value. The NFT could be used as collateral, it could be lent out, it could be staked... many ways to make that NFT have utility. With such an NFT, locked up pods can have value. Uniswap v3 does something similar to this.
- Who is Publius rooting for in the Super Bowl, and who does he think will win the Super Bowl?
- Can the rate of the yield that you can get from a seed change?
- What is Bean Sprout?
- How does a pause on Beanstalk work?
- Any parts of Beanstalk that could be candidates for full immutability (e.g. the 50/50 split between Silo and Pod line)?
- In this edition of Beanstalk A&T, we cover topics like:
- How soil should behave when p>1
- Tradable stalk and seed implications
- How debt would be valued in the pod marketplace
- How Beanstalk thinks about allowing users to lock up liquidity indefinitely in exchange for more benefits
- Who is Publius rooting for in the Super Bowl
- and more...
Announcements and Updates
- Thursday, February 3, 7:00pm ET - Beans Talk Twitter Spaces
- Thursday, February 3, 8:30pm ET - weekly DAO meeting
- February 26 - Beans Poker Tournament
When price is above 1 and we are minting, does it make sense to stop issuing soil if we are above peg and we have a lot of debt?
- Issuing too much soil while bean was above peg was a problem in November when bean was minting a lot
- Through BIP-6 and BIP-9, changed have already been made to adjust for this
- When the price is below $1, that means there was a time-weighted-average-excess of beans over the previous season. In that case, Beanstalk needs to remove beans from the system, so it issues soil so people buy beans from the market and lock them up in the field. In this case, Beanstalk should issue soil to match that time-weighted-average-excess to return the price of bean to peg by removing that exact amount of time-weighted-average-excess from the pool
- When the price is above $1, that means there was a time-weighted-average-shortage of beans over the previous season. If at the start of the season, Beanstalk, say, pays off 50,000 pods at the beginning of a season, then the max amount of pods Beanstalk is willing to issue is 50,000 pods, thus increasing supply will keeping pod line the same, thus decreasing the pod rate
- There needs to be a nonzero amount of soil issued to be able to measure demand for soil, since it needs to measure
Once seed and stalk are tradable, what would be the incentive to sell seed and stalk, given you would need to buy them back in order to withdraw beans from silo?
- People can customize their risk profile (e.g. can adjust to get more stalk vs seeds)
- Lending markets will be introduced once stalk and seeds are tradable — stalk and seeds becoming liquid will open up a ton of integrations and market primitives that will greatly benefit the sophistication and liquidity of the ecosystem
Why did we set 1/10000th of a Stalk to grow from each Seed every season?
- This was done based on napkin math — there’s no “right answer”, but the important part was to make the relationship linear to incentivize staying in the silo
- What was more intentionally done was choosing 2 seeds (or 4 seeds) per silo’ed bean (or LP)
What catalyst is going to make bean more widely used?
- There’s a variety of protocol upgrades and integrations
- Protocol upgrades:
- Pod marketplace (Farmers Market) BIP should be proposed in next 24-48 hours
- Upgrade silo to accept arbitrary tokens based on a whitelist (e.g. Bean/CRV pool, Bean/LUSD pool, Bean/FRAX pool, Aphra 3pool)
- Bean farm becoming generalized to accept arbitrary wrapped assets: all assets can live on the farm without touching wallets
- CreatorDAO is interested in holding Beans in treasury
- There are many others
Given that soil is scarce right now, how do we think about requiring people to be in the Silo in order to be able to sow?
- Soil is designed to create new demand for beans, and beans in the silo are useless form that perspective, and this would not make sense
- The goal is to create an efficient market for soil — introducing arbitrary rules like this makes the market less efficient
- We should keep silo and field independent
- We shouldn’t introduce friction to be able to sow
- There was also an idea circulating that people should be able to bid on future soil, but all that does is create demand at a time when Beanstalk does not need any demand
Why shouldn’t Beanstalk favor Siloers who have locked up beans over people who haven’t?
- Beanstalk should not do this because if the bean is already in the Silo, at that time it is not actually affecting Beanstalk; the only time it affects Beanstalk is if it gets removed from the Silo. The stalk burning system already solves for this
- It’s not clear that going this route would add any significant value at the margin
How would debt be valued in the pod marketplace?
- Given that you are able to project when a certain plot would be harvestable, this would inform the price (can tell at what market cap bean needs to hit to make that plot harvestable)
- Prices in pod marketplace should serve as a great series of data points to indicate how bullish people are on bean’s ability to reach that implied market cap, and more data points = market is more informed and more efficient
- Soil will be independent on prices in the pod marketplace
- Weather may take into account data from the pod marketplace as pod marketplace can show demand for pods
What are Beanstalk’s perspectives on the notion that “liquidity is a public good”. Could we create a yield-generating NFT that represents a claim to locked up liquidity in Beanstalk? Beanstlak could give users the option to lock up liquidity in Beanstalk, maybe for a little more stalk and seed up front, and these users would be able to claim beans that are minted to their locked up position, but wouldn’t be able to withdraw their locked deposits or the stalk and seed associated. NFTs could be issued to users who choose to do this. So NFT would represent an indefinitely locked up position in Beanstalk. And these locked deposits would benefit Beanstalk protocol as it provides a baseline continuum of liquidity for Beanstalk. However the users could still monetize these locked deposits via the NFTs because they have underlying value. The NFT could be used as collateral, it could be lent out, it could be staked... many ways to make that NFT have utility. With such an NFT, locked up pods can have value. Uniswap v3 does something similar to this.
- At a high level, Beanstalk is against any kind of POL (Protocol Owned Liquidity) and PCV (Protocol Controlled Value) because Beanstalk’s peg maintenance model is based on people’s faith in the model because if Beanstalk is able to affect the peg via PCV or POL, that immediately introduces some additional volatility and fear when people see that the protocol is running out of POL and PCV — it creates another avenue through which participants can have their faith shaken
- Therefore, Beanstalk should not have micro-level peg defense mechanisms that it controls; instead people should trust in the Macro (the entire model) peg maintenance mechanism
- Therefore, given the anti-POL/PCV ethos, there’s no benefit to Beanstalk of having people lock up liquidity into a baseline continuum of liquidity that Beanstlak can control
- At a micro level, it would be much better to use a liquid “deposit slip” or EIP-1155 token rather than an NFT since liquid collateral > illiquid collateral. Also, could just make the stalk and seeds liquid rather than locking them up and using a liquid NFT to represent that
- Liquidity is fundamentally the ability to sell one asset into another asset. Liquidity is fundamental. Credit-based model already gives Beanstalk a leg up over collateralized models to provide infinite liquidity.
- That being said, there’s a real opportunity for someone else to create a type of protocol where someone creates a fungible token that represents ownership and the DAO and people can speculate on that token based on the projected ability of the DAO to generate revenue via Bean arbitrage
Who is Publius rooting for in the Super Bowl, and who does he think will win the Super Bowl?
- Publius is rooting for the Bengals, but the Rams will probably win given how good their defensive line is, especially relative to the Bengals’ terrible offensive line
Can the rate of the yield that you can get from a seed change?
- Not totally sure because we still are not 100% sure on how we want to implement
- The benefit of keeping seeds all producing the same amount of stalk is that they are all fungible — once you make different “classes” of seed you lose the liquidity there, so Beanstalk is inclined to keep each seed yielding the same amount, but situation is still in flux
What is Bean Sprout?
- Bean Sprout is an accelerator funded by the Q1 budget that funds the development of new use cases and utility beyond what is on Beanstalk Farms’s roadmap
- Fund an ecosystem to create long term time-weighted sinks for Bean demand and open up new demand, liquidity, and utility for Beans
How does a pause on Beanstalk work?
- Sunrise function has to be called to start the season. Pause prevents Sunrise from being called
- Bankless Africa AMA is in the works
- Getting on the Bankless official podcast is a big goal
Any parts of Beanstalk that could be candidates for full immutability (e.g. the 50/50 split between Silo and Pod line)?
- Caveat: the diamond standard doesn’t facilitate immutability in a way that is possible, so this is highly unlikely to happen anytime in the future
- Theoretically though, if community members want to make clear that some things should be immutable, it would be in the ethos of Beanstalk to follow the will of the people
- Thoughts on weather
- Weather will not decrease until we are consistently over a dollar
- Real Rate of Return is decreasing, which is a good sign
- Weather increases by 1% or 3% or stays the same each season based on the TWAP, pod rate, and change in demand for soil over the previous 2 seasons. Measuring demand for soil is complex:
- Weather will go down as Demand for Soil increases (not just the amount of soil that is consumed, but also how fast soil is eaten up). Please read the below excerpt for more information on how Beanstalk measures Demand for Soil
okay i guess we can get started um i just want to before we start i just want to mention that we have quite a few things coming up on the schedule that you all can take a look at um on thursday of course have the dow meeting and we also have a little twitter spaces um at just at seven o'clock eastern so come come to that then we have the class so we could be down meeting and then i also put just save the date uh february 26th for the beans poker tournament um we're firming that date up and uh that should be a very fun event so just looking forward to that and yeah i think uh as far as the overall update i think it's getting there's too much going on for me to give a quick update on on what's going on i think we'll probably just go straight to class and then uh if you're interested it was just a weekly update that publius pushed out on discord and come to the dow meeting and uh we can uh we can chat then unless the public is there anything on your mind before we get started uh nothing in particular okay so uh classes uh class is open feel free to um post your questions on the class discussion board here um this is being recorded so we'll uh we'll have the recording of this afterwards and some notes and uh you can feel free to raise your hand as well or just come up on stage it's open for people to just come right up on stage i think uh i think i saw your hand up right as i join so if you have a question and uh if anyone else has a question the floor is open [Music] hi guys can you hear me we'll go mod and then we'll go jw yeah i'll start with a question um right now when when the price is above one and we're minting i understand that we're still issuing soil um does it make sense or is it a good idea to stop issuing soil when we're above one and minting when the debt is high so we only do that when you know when we're within like a certain level of that but when it's too high then there's no need to keep issuing more that even if we're above peg so in particular uh issuing too much soil when above peg is uh the issue beanstalk had when it was growing last november so uh in short uh through biff 6 and bip 9 there are now changes to the soil rules which we believe uh balance the needs of the system with um which you know beanstalk requires there to be some soil issued every season because the peg maintenance model uh changes the weather based on the t-wop uh the pod rate and the demand for soil specifically the changing demand for soil over the previous two seasons uh there needs to be some soil in order for beanstalk to measure demand for soil however uh in the previous growth cycle beanstalk had a minimum soil parameter that was a function of the total supply and accordingly there was just way too much soil issued every season even when beanstalk was minting and paying off debt so the new soil parameters that is currently in place is any time there's a time weighted average excess of beans in the pool the amount of soil is equivalent to the time weighted average exits over the previous season um which has been the case for the past couple weeks what you've seen in place and now the price is oscillating above and below a dollar so uh when the price is below a dollar for a season uh or the t is below a dollar for a season uh that the soil minted is based on the time weighted average excessive beats in the pool the new rule which you're asking about uh when there's a time weighted average shortage of beans in the previous season and beanstalk is minting is that if at the start of a season beanstalk uh pays off fifty thousand pounds let's call it um during that season the most amount of pods beanstalk will be willing to issue is fifty thousand pods total so assuming that there's demand for all the soil bean stuff is issuing in that case the pod rate will decrease over the course of that season because the bean supply has increased while the debt level has stayed the same the pod line has stayed the same so the pod rate or the debt level in that case should have decreased because the pod line has stayed the same while the supply has increased so in under the new parameters when bean stuff is growing the debt level should decrease even if the length of the pod line stays the same if that makes sense go ahead i i think i i i lost you at the bit off if we if we're minting 50 000 and and then we issue a solid 50 000 what happens again to the supply and to the quadrat so let's say 50 000 pods harvest at the start of this season um the amount of soil beanstalk will issue uh at the start of the season as well is a function of the 50 000 pods that just harvested and the weather during the season so the soil the amount of soil bean stock issues is the solution to the equation how much soil can be in stock issues such that the amount of pods issued during the season is the maximum pods issued during the season is the same as the paws that were harvestable at the start of the season so 50 000 pods harvested at the start of the season the most amount of pods that will be issued during the season is 50 000 pods okay is this a way one way to think of it then is that okay we have an excess supply of 50 000 so let's take it out by assuming soil is this one way to think of it well we have to separate the two sides right uh when there's a when the price is too low um when the the price is below a dollar that means that there was a time weighted average excess of beans in the pool over the previous season so when there's an excess of beans in the pool over the previous season beanstalk needs to remove beans from the system so when the price is too low let's say there was a time weighted average excess of beans across the unit swap pool the curve pool any pools that beans are in um in a theoretical world beanstalk should issue the amount of soil to match that time weighted average excess if that makes sense so if there is demand for soil someone is going to buy those beans from the market and return the price to a dollar if that makes sense so from an efficiency perspective the the stroke the soil the maximum soil or the maximum pods being stock will issue when there's a time weighted average excess of beans in the pool over the previous season is the amount of uh based on the amount of soil necessary to return the price to a dollar by removing the exact amount of time weighted average excess beans from the pool that's a totally different rule set though than when there's a time weighted average shortage of beans in the pool when the price is too high and that has to do with then how many pods harvested at the start of the season if that makes sense yeah thank you uh thank you publish jw go ahead yeah so i'm pull this i'm getting i get i think i'm getting more and more excited about the idea of stocking seeds in general um and i was just wondering two things one um you know when it's in place that we're able to buy and sell stock and seeds um what would be an incentive for somebody to actually sell their seeds and or stock versus versus holding it um right because they don't obviously then their their deposits and the silo wouldn't be you know yield generating so i'm interested to know like what would be in it obviously that could vary but to get your thoughts on what an incentive for that would be um and then also i was just curious about the the choice to um have the yield generation be one um 10 10 000 uh stock per per season i'll proceed if you're just talking those two that'd be great so to speculate a little bit on uses [Music] i think the most interesting beyond people like the most obvious one is people are able to more customize their risk profile associated with being stock some people may prefer more stock versus seeds and vice versa and if you think of stock as uh more based on the short-term growth of beanstalk and seeds as because they yield more stock over time more long-term uh yield from beanstalk uh people can customize their exposure to beanstalk if that makes sense and given the opportunity cost introduced by the stock system and the requirement to forfeit your grown stock people may be incentivized to sell some of their stock as opposed to cashing out from the silo entirely um so uh that's the most obvious use case but then there's also the idea of like lending markets on top of stock and seeds because they're yield bearing assets and then once you have that there's kind of uh the ability to short the future of being stock so lots of really interesting uh market complexities are uh introduced by stock and seeds which is really fun so uh from when we talk about the growth in the development of the ecosystem stock and seeds becoming liquid will open up a ton of different integrations and uh market uh market uh primitives so let's call it uh that will greatly benefit the liquidity and sophistication of the ecosystem uh which is you know we're excited and once this the silo is upgraded to support arbitrary tokens that'll kind of be one of the next developments uh immediately in the pipeline and to speak um substantively about where the um one to ten you know one ten thousandth of a stalk grows from seed one seed every season um in short uh we we did a little bit of rough you know we're big fans of napkin math and there's no right answer per se uh as to as to what exactly the right amount of incentive you need from stock that's going to grow from seeds and on the one hand i think as opposed to what the rate of growth is per se which is less important the real decision was to make the growth linear if that makes sense and so the opportunity cost increases in a linear fashion the longer that an asset is deposited in the silo um and i think the yeah i don't i'm not gonna make up like some convoluted logic as to why we chose one over ten thousand but um in reality what we actually chose was two seeds and four seeds per being denominated value deposited so um it's not actually even like 110 000 if you think about it from a bean perspective that was just from a boating perspective something that was cleaner to implement um it you know it was more figuring out what is the on a bean denominated value the amount of stock and seeds that you want to issue and um in general i think we're inclined to move towards more of a gauge system that will allow for more fluctuation between different pools the idea would be to have some sort of hard-coded stock and seed ratio for the beanstalk seed pool as compared to beans um to ensure that stock and seeds don't over inflate um but beyond that basically every lp pool more or less maybe with the exception of the beneath una swap v2 pool which is sort of a core to the protocol in many ways should all be up to the gauge system where we're thinking about uh how it's best to design at the moment so uh don't have like a really sophisticated answer for you as to where the 10 000 comes from um or the one in 10 000 but um you know it's more about on a bean denominated value how much uh extra stock to reward over time got it great that that that helps thanks and then i've got a question about valuing debt uh valuing debt but i'll ask that effort everybody else so thank you okay um how about divine jesus uh hey publish um my question is on being itself and what catalyst is gonna make being uh more widely used in the near future and i have one more question so so there's a variety of uh different both protocol upgrades and more general integrations happening hopefully to to the bean token in the near future that will be complementary so to speak a little bit on the beanstalk upgrades first um the goal is in addition to the launch of the farmers market the pod marketplace uh in the next week or so we hope um you know our intentions to propose that pip in the next 24 hours let's call it um maybe 48 hours at the max um you know so then from there it'll be up to a week until that's live hopefully but maybe it'll even reach a super majority who knows um and beyond that the next kind of upgrades in the pipeline or to upgrade the silo to accept arbitrary tokens based on a whitelist so that will include the bean three curve curve pool and then potentially a variety of other pools like a bean frax pool that paints sprout and fracks are talking about uh coordinating and uh a bean lusd pool as well potentially uh so there's a couple different uh immediate things in the pipeline uh there was also that aphra uh thing i'm not sure of the current status of that but bean sprout was also uh working with aphro to launch a decentralized three pool with bean um and so all of those tokens and this is where we said it was complementary the integrations with the beanstalk upgrades the idea that the silo will accept arbitrary lp tokens will allow uh direct integrations with summer all of these lp pools into into the silo based on dips which is pretty exciting so uh beyond that uh another upgrade to being stuck uh happening in the near future will be that the bean farm uh will be generalized so currently you can uh kind of go from the field to the silo if you have harvestable pods you can deposit them in the silo or if you have claimable beans you can sew them or redeposit them in the silo without any of those assets those beans touching your wallet uh which uh for some participants in the ecosystem it seems this more beneficial from a tax perspective we've been you know some of our community members have highlighted that and so the idea is that we're gonna generalize the bean farm to sort of accept arbitrary wrapped assets that you have can hold on the bean farm and then either turn into beans or alpitopins and silo or so to your heart's content but don't necessarily ever need to remove them from the farm so when we talk about just increasing utility and decreasing friction uh to integrating with the ecosystem we think uh upgrading the silo and generalizing the bean farm are going to be uh pretty big deals uh on that front and then obviously there's the active coordination with uh various other protocols to get uh being in front of them and have them consider it and then maybe one other thing just to highlight would be uh creator dao uh they're pretty cool in our opinion and they're interested in holding beans in their treasury and also doing marketing for being um kind of as a symbiotic win-win so i think there's a lot of really cool things in the pipeline on the utility front and the adoption front um liquidity is probably step one on that front and uh they're all correlated as you can tell so uh integrating the lp tokens into the silo will help increase liquidity which will help increase the ability to integrate with other protocols so this is all going to hopefully happen in the next couple weeks and months but um step by step by step all right thank you you answered my second question so i'm good i think that's a good thing yes that's right maybe an indication we talk too much but perhaps uh perhaps just that we cover everything thank you okay hash rash go ahead hey julius what's up um so my question is now that the soil is scarce basically you know anybody that wants soil it's that they have to wait how do we think about requiring uh people to be in the silo in order to uh be eligible for soil with maybe a first in first out system where a line would form with people that are siloing to get the soil when it's available so specifically soil is designed to create new demand for beans because beanstalk has to remove excess beans from the pool and beans that are in the silo are sort of useless from that perspective and so that's why there's a deliberate bifurcation between siloed beans and circulating beans and you cannot sow silo beans and so it would not make sense to offer any ability to sow silo beans um independent of some sort of bonus for that as well got it thank you um but to jump on that um hash rash and publius would there be a way where like you had to sew a portion and keep them so like just to jump on your idea hashtag say you had to sew a thousand beans in order you had to silo a thousand beans for a certain period of time and then you wouldn't be sewing you'd have to withdraw those you would get some sort of chip which would then enable you to uh is this sort of what you're talking about hash rash like not to um not to sew siloed beans but to qualify to sow other beans right right i'm just thinking that you know if any if people may be waiting for you know soil to be available so they can lend to to the protocol the goal is to create an efficient market for soil like the name of the gam to keep beanstalk uh the the peg maintenance model working is efficient market for soil and as soon as you impose like arbitrary rules like you need to own stock to sow that makes the soil market less efficient so ultimately you know i think there's real benefit to keeping the silo in the field basically entirely independent okay all right thank you yep so publish to expand on that you would think that that would if the less efficient it is than the higher probably that would just end up if i want to soil right now and and i need to now buy buy a hundred thousand beans and deposit them in the silo that is a friction that's introduced in order to actually sow the beans if that makes sense so the goal is to not do anything of the sort and to make the market for soil as efficient as possible like as a principle right right obvious this is more or less the same as tekken deposits right which is creating inorganic demand can you repeat that sorry i missed that the the inefficiency you were describing here is it's kind of the same as when we said let's take deposits you know for uh for when soil is available and and you you explained it then by getting in organic demand yeah exactly like the just to fill people in uh there was an idea circulating that people could bid in advance on soil um sort of to fill in the soil once it once it exists but the problem is that just creates more demand during a time where beanstalk doesn't need any extra demand so when the price is above one people should really only be buying beans uh to silo them for long-term siloing or to use them for something um if you're buying them below a dollar that should be to sow them in the field more or less not to over prescribe behavior you can buy below a dollar in silo just as well um but from a like an incentive perspective that's the behavior beanstalk more or less tries to create uh go ahead jww and then we'll get to divine jesus okay so uh police when thinking about um the the pod marketplace i i've i guess i've been trying to understand like how the debt would be valued um when the marketplace goes live and maybe my thinking is like i think you can just kind of poke holes or tear this apart but my thinking is um the closer to to pagar the closer to one that that we're starting to see the sales of the pop marketplace like let's say we're looking at somebody who's like 400 million in line um if people are starting to value that that those those pods kind of closer to what closer to a dollar i mean does that generally generally uh infer that there's trust behind beanstalk um as opposed to people that are just trying to buy it for 10 cents at 400 million in line is that fair to say [Music] so i mean the way the question of like how do you price a pod is incredibly sophisticated uh and probably a conversation or a discussion for another day but in short i think the the given that a being or a pod at a given place in line is sort of uh can you can figure out exactly when you're based on a future market cap uh or a future supply of beans you're gonna get that pod liquid into a bean uh there is some sort of uh direct you know from a discounting uh discounting value in the future to the present uh the an increase in the value of a given pod in a place in line but would be an indication that someone is more bullish on beanstalk's ability to increase in in supply uh as compared to if the price were lower so i think the pod marketplace will serve as a large uh data point uh or a series of data points that will provide a series of data points that will help uh everyone start to participate in being stuck in a more efficient capacity hopefully okay great and then and then if that's the case like let's say that the the debt gets um valued at quite close to peg or you know quite high um is there what what mechanism is in place or is there a mechanic mechanism in place or would we want to would that be changed at all to increase the amount of debt that that bean stock is willing to um to issue or would that stay kind of currently with the way that it's set up now yeah so the the soil mechanism which is the willingness to issue debt is going to be totally independent of secondary prices on the farmers market the weather may go up or down you know as sort of a a second order effect of increased demand for pods or a decrease in demand for pods based on uh people's future expected uh minting or as that's implied in the pod marketplace but uh beyond that no okay great thank you okay uh divine jesus and then syncobate uh divine jesus we can't hear you if you're speaking we'll take syncobate and then we'll circle back for you uh divine jesus hey darling do you hear me okay yeah here you're good and clear okay good deal so um i went ahead and shared in the class discussion a tweet that i thought was interesting from the other day i saw zeus from olympus he tweeted liquidity is a public good and i thought that was interesting given everything that's going on right now with the critiques of protocol liquidity um is this something that we could potentially consider for beanstalk i had wrote about this a few weeks ago and kind of building off of what publius was talking about um in terms of stock and seed and potentially interesting financial derivatives the idea of protocol and like the idea of liquidity as a public good is really interesting to me um interesting as zeus is also not thinking about it i wonder if he's rethinking the whole pol model so my thought process was on uh as a public good cause yeah i'm not sure i follow what that means sure so the whole idea behind it publius is kind of like what you were talking about earlier when um i believe jww had asked you about the thought process in terms of how c's generate new stock and you were talking about it was pretty much just napkin math um right now in the silo the salad already favors lp deposits over bean only deposits seems like it's an arbitrary favor in terms of the amount of seed you get it's double the amount of seed if you do an lp deposit versus a bean only deposit in either case they're withdrawable deposits and it's when the seed and stock become liquid it's already based off of the class of discussions we had so far my understanding is if a user were to withdraw their seed and stop from the silo when they become liquid their deposit is essentially locked in the silo until they return that stocking seed or repurchase it and return it back to the silo so there's already like an implicit um possibility that deposits will can become locked um if a depositor does not uh you know return their stock and seed if they decided to sell it on the open market and not buy it back and return it back to the silo my thought process is was um what if we had an explicit like two-tier type of deposit system where there would be as we have now bean only and lp deposits that are withdrawable and separate from that being only an lp deposits that are locked but these lot deposits would be represented as nfts number one and number two um to support them or to incentivize users to do a lock deposit there would maybe be slightly more stock up front or slightly more seed up front similar to kind of like how we're already doing that with lp versus bean only deposits but the catch is the stock and seed associated with a lock deposit would also be locked now because it's represented as an nft it would be um it really presents some interesting opportunities from what users can then do with that representation of their liquidity position because even though the liquidity is provided essentially as a public good right because what a user is doing is saying i support bean stock i'm willing to commit this bean or this lp deposit indefinitely to support this decentralized stable coin that hopefully will span all of d5 one day but it's not really locked right because it's locked with the pro for the protocols benefit in the sense that it's providing a kind of baseline continuum of liquidity for being stock but from a user's perspective it's actually not locked right because you would the protocol would be issuing an nft that would represent that position and then the nft itself could then be used right because it has underlying value it under the underlying values like what i i still don't understand what liquidity as a public good is i'm sorry to cut you off right so it was it was based off of a paper i had read or i didn't read it all because it was really long but it was a paper that was written in 2019 about the traditional finance system and lessons learned from the 2007-2008 financial crisis it was regarding the idea of liquidity as a public good in the global financial markets and obviously from that perspective it's more like you know how can regulators and centralized entities like that are above all of traditional finance kind of step in as providing a baseline continuity of liquidity and financial markets right but in d5 we don't have that right we don't have like a cent a centralized trusted party that could do that in a sense i thought about it like it's really the obligations really upon users to commit capital but we can do it in a way that's not um self-limiting right so i was thinking about it from how unit swap v3 does lp positions they they issue an nft to you and the nft represents your liquidity position and what's interesting is and this was a problem when unisoft v3 first launched people thought oh i could sell my nft right but no if you sell your nft or you transfer to another wallet whoever owns that wallet owns your liquidity position because the nft represents that lp position so in the same sense i was thinking what if beanstalk issued like a mft to represent a locked deposit to users that are willing to do that they're willing to lock liquidity in beanstalk for maybe a little bit more stock and seed up front but again that stock and seed would be locked too the only thing that would be claimable would be newly minted being from when the protocol minutes being so with the know v3 lp you can go into unit swap you can claim your fees without touching the the assets representing the lp position so in the same sense i was thinking you can this would essentially be a yield generating nft that would represent an indefinite position in beanstalk protocol and then from a user's perspective that nft could then be you could take it as you know you could deposit as collateral and take a loan out against it you could lend it out right if it's because it's yield generating um if there was like a public funding public goods funding project built on top of beanstalk one day for example let's say i like a certain uh charity or public good um initiative other users like it we could stake our nfts and then the yield from those nfts could be directed towards that public goods funding idea so there's just so many ways that this could kind of like build on top of the utility of bean as a token right and i was thinking about it also from the pods marketplace perspective like users would be able to unlock liquidity even though the underlying liquidity is locked because the nft has value it represents value um but the question is how could we explore that and i because zeus is thinking about it too i thought maybe this whole pro i know you guys have kind of been like critiques of the pc pol model and it's interesting that somebody like zeus is also just recently now saying liquidity is a public good i'm wondering where his thought process is so just curious what you guys think about that yeah so you there's a lot there syncubate and i think there's some macro reasons uh why it may not make the most sense and then some micro reasons as well so i'll try to kind of break things down at a couple different levels here um because i really do love the thought and wanna you know wanna wanna analyze it in full so at a high level as you mentioned you know we're really uh against pol or pcv protocol own liquidity or protocol controlled value in basically any capacity and why is that um it's because beanstalk and and uh faith in the peg maintenance model uh is very much a faith-based system right people have to believe in the model when the price is below a dollar uh it's people's belief in the model that both uh inspires someone to buy and sow beans and prevents people from uh withdrawing and selling all of their beans for example and so the qu like the one of the first primary questions is well how do we create uh a system that is unlikely to be uh have everyone's faith shake and as soon as you introduce pol or pcv that's sort of a first stop right there's some amount of pol which beanstalk would then be able to use to return the price to the pegger uh in some capacity influence uh the peg maintenance schedule for example in the ability for the pol or the pcb to be converted if that makes sense to peg that immediately introduces some additional volatility around any time you run out of that layer one peg defense if that makes sense and so at the highest level the goal is to offer no you know level one peg defenses and to have the protocol only have one macro peg defense which over time more and more and more people will start to believe in and then they will start to participate in peg maintenance at a micro level which will create a much much more sustainable consistent price uh at the peg but the idea from a protocol design perspective is not to create uh sort of like a layer one defense uh in any capacity because i think that will uh have a counter intuitive effect uh to what what what may be intended or a counter counter effect what was intended um and then to to talk a little bit more about the the concept of liquidity as a public good well what is liquidity right liquidity is the ability to sell one asset into another asset and so on the one hand uh like that's very important and uh there's real problems if an asset uh that you thought had liquidity uh into various other assets suddenly doesn't uh you know that effectively compromises the entire value or certainly the utility of that asset so liquidity is fundamental and we would just highlight that moving from a collateralized model to a credit-based model does give beanstalk a leg up in its ability to provide an infinite amount of liquidity to various protocols based on demand for beans which is great but uh i'm still not sure exactly how uh liquidity as a public good would work in divide given that currently you know that's i i'm just not you know i i don't want to comment more on that other than i still don't really understand it um now to to think about well what would be the benefit to beanstalk of having people lock up liquidity on a permanent basis um with the high level discussion of like we don't even want a layer one defense i would argue that there's no benefit whatsoever um and so we don't really want to offer additional stock and seeds and so then you would say well maybe you can just offer people the ability to wrap their assets in a in an nft anyways and we would say that that's already going to exist because deposit slips um they won't be an nft there will be an 11 55 hopefully so that there's some more liquidity and fungibility within a season at least um but but the idea is that you'll be able to transfer deposit uh with or without the associated underlying stock and seeds uh so you'll have a lot of those benefits and then maybe at a micro level when we talk about the utilities you mentioned the ability to lock up or use that nfp is collateral um on an apples to apples basis it would be much better to use a liquid deposit that you can then liquidate the underlying stock seeds or beans at any point uh under that will certainly be able to get you more bang for your buck uh when using that liquid collateral as opposed to an e-liquid acid as collateral so i think while i'm certainly a big fan of how you're thinking about this um not necessarily sure that um you know it makes sense for being stuck at the moment yeah yeah thanks also just um you know to uh you know add on to that a little bit number one with the nfts like what's even more liquid than an nft that holds stock and seeds the actual stock in seeds so not quite sure what the value is there by choosing to lock stock and seeds in an nft and then making that liquid when we could just make the stock and seeds liquid like an nft that holds stock and seeds is likely going to trade around the price of the value of the underlying stock in seats so why are the stock and sees locked in the nft um and then to you know append on the pll conversation you know we have you know we are interested in potentially having some sort of accompanying beanstalk you know dow treasury protocol that you know could receive bonds or accumulate protocol on liquidity and act as you know some sort of benevolent actor in helping to maintain pig stability um outside of the beanstalk protocol thanks guys i appreciate that clarification um yeah the only reason i was thinking the stock and seed might be locked too is because somebody i brought up when i originally thought about this is arbitrage opportunity if you were to favor lock deposits more than withdrawable deposits by giving them more stock and seed there might be an arbitrage opportunity where the stock and seat could then be dumped on the market but the other way to address that was just to not favor them with more stock and seed and just make the stock and seed withdrawable from the nft um just like the the minted bean would be um but yeah um i was just thinking about this more on a bigger picture perspective like we think of liquidity providers in d5 generally as mercenary and i was thinking about it from the small percentage of users that might might be more altruistic and i don't know if that's where zeus is coming from again his tweet is kind of vague i'm curious for those that follow olympus maybe how that develops but maybe we can revisit this once the clarity is there so thank you so much thanks incubate okay uh quickly uh before divine jesus i have a very quick question from canadian bennett and that's publius you've spoken a bit about football who do you think's uh who do you want to win the super bowl and i would ask who do you think is going to win the super bowl well i think i'm not going to speak for for both of us here uh you know it's very hard to root against joey b so we'll be rooting for the bangles or i will be certainly um but you know the rams defense of line against that swiss cheese offensive line you know very hard to to pick against the rams so uh probably betting on the rams uh if we were betting uh which we won't be but rooting for for the bengals all right awesome uh divine jesus did you get your mic working not hear anything yet but we had you earlier didn't we shoot feel free to stay up here and troubleshoot that check my dm see if anyone sent anything in class discussion i see something up uh manifold dropping beans on joey b i love it that would be it yeah positive carry bats if we worked out a little side website where we could just uh do some straight-up bets okay awesome yeah when can we transfer silo beans that's when you can really have positive carry bets uh mud yeah while we wait uh publius um well i just wanted to expand on on on the forever deposit thing isn't isn't a forever like a lot deposit that doesn't you know cannot be withdrawed is is more uh stabilizing for beanstalk so why wouldn't we in stock like favor someone who would like you know their deposit uh versus someone who's having it in a silo and can take it out at any time what does it mean for a bean to be locked in beanstalk forever like it doesn't really mean anything it doesn't doesn't that mean that you can't pull it out and put it sell it in the market or dump it in the market doesn't that make it as if like you know it's not in the supply anymore but i think i think from uh at a high level i don't think that you committing to lock that up forever will will benefit beanstalk other than it's like at the margin a removal of the supply but the question is like when will that actually come into play because if the the bean is already in the silo or going in the silo at that point in time it's not actually affecting beanstalk the time it's affecting beanstalk is down the line when it might otherwise be removed from the silo and i think from that perspective like beanstalk has the stock system and is confident in the stock system is like an incentive to keep assets deposited and like there's not at the margin it's very hard to know like well how much extra stock or seeds should be in stock pay to lock something up permanently uh and i don't think that that like it doesn't benefit beanstalk to pay extra for something that theoretically might benefit it when uh you know the stock and seed system has demonstrated a very strong level of efficacy in in retaining assets within the silo so uh you know it's not to say that there's no reason to do it but i think at the margin uh we we were you know as publis was saying i think it's much more attractive to us to have uh independent protocols uh supporting beanstalk peg maintenance in various ways and you may have multiple competing dows that have their own pol or pcv that they're using to arbitrage beanstalk but that should really be separate from the protocol itself like from a principle perspective the goal is to keep the model as simple as humanly possible and obviously it's getting more complex as we add arbitrary lp tokens to the silo and stuff like that um but even with that the goal is to keep things as simple as possible thank you and i'm a big fan of the idea of offloading you know these other things to other other protocols i i like it more than doing it we think there's a lot of opportunity there for ambitious farmers to kind of get that going and we would be happy to like help support that um but it it really just can't come from the protocol like there's a there has to be a separation of church and state between arbitrage supporting beanstalk like by independent market participants and the protocol itself so as long as those are separate it's not to say that there can't be on-chain like arbitrage that is happening in you know like an automatic fashion by various decentralized protocols that would be awesome um but that's different than the protocol itself doing it agreed thank you okay looks like we divine jesus did end up typing the question out my question was whether the rate of the yield that you get from a seed can change um if you could just speak to um the you know deposited uh i guess i'll just a quick explainer on deposited lp and uh beans in the silo for divine jesus that'd be helpful well i actually don't have a good answer because i think we're still not 100 sure on how we want to implement that more complex stock and seed system however the benefit of keeping seeds all yielding the same amount of stock is that then they're all fungible as soon as you introduce like different classes of seeds then you lose the liquidity uh there so we'd probably just from a design perspective try to keep seeds yielding the same amount of stock per season and then instead toggle the amount of seeds that you get per being denominated value but that is still in flux so don't don't quote us on that gotcha uh rex just posted the locked value concept feels like what convex is doing with curve a cool idea that makes more sense to come from an outside group rather than beanstalk farms slash beansprout um which just got me thinking that yeah it's you know i have i have convex and it's kind of nice because it's sort of there is a finality to it whenever you do one of these things that's permanent and maybe that's maybe that's where some of the ground swell from people thinking you know they believe in being they want you know if there was a little bit extra you know i understand the reasons to not do it but it is there is some finality when you've done something like that that's permanent you just think all right ride or die i've done this uh so i can see an argument for it but i also see why it could be external anyway it's good yeah i think i think there's a real opportunity for someone to create that type of protocol uh where you know then instead you receive some sort of fungible token that represents ownership in that dow and then that token is liquid but then people can speculate on the future value of the dow based on its ability to you know profit from arbitraging the bean peg for example so a million different cool ways to go there and our hope is to you know inspire protocols like that to be built on top of beanstalk in the not too distant future and if people want to do that we're happy to chat about ideas okay we are open for questions uh jairus james hey thanks for coming paris was uh leading the ama with bankless is that just yesterday it goes yesterday got a hand come on hey guys thanks for having me yeah that um ama yesterday was awesome yeah so great so glad you could do that thanks oh yeah no problem i'm looking to uh set up another ama for beanstalk um in the near future with bankless africa awesome awesome that was really great yeah yeah um bankless africa they're doing a project right now um it's just getting started though um they're scoping out a squad right now but um it's a whole project focus on stable coins and it'll be great to have publius uh give a breakdown of being stock on there as well what is it cool so yeah we'll be in touch for that um yeah it sounds good sounds good man any any question that you have for publius while we got you up here let's see i could save some for the ama oh what i would like to ask uh he did mention something another metaphor i mean there's tons of metaphors with being stuck but it was one that i um that was new to me called a sprout i would like to know more about sprout sure publish so bean sprout uh is a beanstalk accelerator program separate from beanstalk farms that was funded by the beanstalk dao as part of the q1 budget um mr manifold is the head of being stock far excuse me sprout um maybe mr manifold you want to pop up here and just chat a little bit about uh what bean sprout is up to and uh how you think about uh you know supporting the beanstalk ecosystem through being sprout sure fibrius uh jairus thanks for hosting the uh you know getting our community exposure um and we're looking forward to working with you guys in the future for more things um so with bean sprout as polius mentioned we're looking to build uh bean use cases and utility um that kind of extend past what beanstalk farms is focused on so one explicit example and and dumpling this kind of um might also tie into one of the points you are making is uh we are funding and incubating a concept called afrofinance um and afra is effectively going to be a long-term capital partner of beanstalk that is arbitraging around beans peg producing cash flows around the peg uh and reinvesting those cash flows into uh basically pummeling more liquidity and then this concept uh dumpling kind of like the convex concept you mentioned um can be gained through exposure via afro um so you know there's more to come there that's just one example um a couple other things we're thinking about on the marketing side um some vote found in the beans a poker tournament um which your speaker seems like it's maybe covered up halfway or something just don't miss anything good that you're saying is this better that i think now you're good yeah and start back over at maybe the poker tournament and yeah yeah so so largely kind of the objective of the objective of being sprout is to fund uh ecos that create you know long-term time weighted sinks for being demand um and that can happen through a variety of fashions again mentioning afra something else we kind of have in the pipeline via afra is uh enabling uh [Music] beans beans and maybe stocks and seeds is that because as they become fungible erc 20s that are tradable to be uh collateral um or being able to borrow beans um through various forms of collateral on various fuse pools so really just you know different ways to open up liquidity for the system um new demand and new utility for the system so you know we are kind of like a simp for beanstalk if that kind of analogy makes sense to you um but you know there's a lot of really really cool things that we can do with beans yeah beans got a lot of it there's a lot of interesting things going on with this protocol and um yeah so i'm very interested in super super fun yeah yeah this is this is cool beanstalk is is i believe that y'all y'all are gonna be just the standard for the decentralized stable coin i love how you represent the ethos of crypto as well thanks jairus yeah that's that's great it's definitely the more you the more you look into it and the more you you know it's just it's like the beans rabbit hole there's just more to beans more more to beans than meets the eye so yeah even um about sunrise that's a new to me i don't really understand um sunrise 100 yes i would like to know more about that and um also about i've read that um in case of danger of a dangerous vulnerability to being stuck that the silo can pause or unpause being stuck um exactly how does the pause on being stopped work i think this is for publius yeah so the first is the sunrise um is the function that is called by anybody at the top of every hour uh to start the next season and uh the sunrise function has to be called to start the season so beanstalk offers a reward in the form of beans which increases every second that uh nobody calls the sunrise function uh to an uh you know incentivize prompt calling of the sunrise function so uh that's been called by someone at the top of every hour more or less for the past six months since we launched and uh has been happening more or less automatically uh you know independent of publish which is pretty cool uh from basically as soon as we launched like there was an mev bot calling the sunrise function like from from the second season so um that's a little bit on the sunrise function the pause um all it really does is prevent the sunrise function from being called so it's actually a great back-to-back question you asked uh like the definition of a pause it's just that the sunrise cannot be called until being stopped it's unpaused so it's not a full stop of the system um but it does you know pause most of the system in the sense that if you have beans that are in the silo you can't withdraw them if you have beans that are withdrawn but not claimable they don't move up until there's another sunrise called and so bips being stuck improvement proposals do work um on a time system not a season-based system exclusively to get around this in case being stock is paused being stuck and still be upgraded uh but the general concept of a pause is just that uh the sunrise function can't be called so seasons will not continue so if there's a problem with the minting schedule or um you know whatever type of vulnerability that's a way to temporarily stop being stopped from uh continuing to up in whatever capacity it might be yeah i really respect how much thought was put behind this protocol it's like no storm was left unturned here i mean we appreciate that but we would say that uh over the past six months we have had the opportunity to fix uh multiple issues and inefficiencies with the model so uh while it may appear to you that way today uh we're certainly the beneficiaries of uh like being stuck being live for six months so that um you know we've had a large amount of data uh available to us to to really improve the model overall so uh glad that today it's it's starting to look that way yeah and i'm looking forward to setting up some more amas for you a lot more people need to know about me in stock for sure when i first came across your project um yeah i saw nf thinker mate made a post about it within the educational channel in um bank list and then yeah once i started reading about it and i saw um a few youtube videos yeah i was i definitely fell down that rabbit hole like dumpling was saying we agree and uh candidly we don't think we've done a very good job of making beanstalk um in part we don't really feel comfortable like acting as a salesperson we don't really feel that's the role of publius so i would greatly appreciate you facilitating those types of more organic amas and settings where we can talk about the protocol in a way that doesn't feel like shilling per se yeah absolutely yeah so i would um yeah i'm proud to uh to promote you guys for sure because i definitely believe in this project and i like um the allegory behind it is interesting it's like gamified in a way and um the way that it was inspired by alexander hamilton and john jay like that was really cool it was really cool it's really deep well it's great to hear you know new people hearing about about it and uh yeah it's just great great great to have another farmer thanks jeras no problem yeah i think bankless africa is gonna find this project to be very interesting yeah well let's um i i sent you a dm a little bit earlier um so let's uh we'll communicate that way and anyone else that you're in touch with here and also the bankless podcast i don't know how much access you have to that but that's like the whole you know that's a huge deal as well yeah that's a huge deal um yeah i still got you know build my cloud up at bank list but yeah i would like to um set that up sometime in the near future when i have um when i have access to that but yeah we could definitely um that's a goal yeah that's definitely a goal we got to get you on the official podcast we said to buy heart the buy the bar high here jairus yeah i respect that yeah i'm with that too i'm a high achiever as well so we gotta make that happen we love it so uh welcome to the bean farm my friend thank you i'm glad to be here all right uh let's see any more discussions on the okay uh well we're a little over the hour now happy to take a few more questions if anyone has them um please i might give you a one that is just i know there's been a lot of discussion over uh about the weather um and about you know we're kind of fine-tuning it or exactly what happens but in the last probably like three or four days as we've been kind of above and below peg i've just been wondering if um it seems like the weather's gone up a little just a little bit you know sometimes i haven't been watching it that closely but i wonder if you could just take us through like when the soil is it's in kind of a soil scarce environment like people are probably going to sew pretty soon um it seems like the weather is still creeping up from season to season and i'm wondering you know what the thought process is uh you know if you know when when it when it sort of flips the switch from going up by three percent to uh below three percent can you just guide us through that a little bit yeah so in short i mean well first let's just take a look at a little bit of the data which i think is instructive so from our perspective if you look at the weather um while the weather has generally continued to increase over the past week um i think the thing that we would kind of look at that has started to stabilize or decreases the real rate of return um and so you're not going to have the price excuse me the weather decrease until the prices at or above a dollar um you know in general but the fact that the real rate of return has kind of been steadily coming down over the past week uh that's a good sign so now that the prices hopefully going to oscillate more consistently over a dollar the real rate of return continuing to come down that will have to be a function of the weather coming down or the price being significantly above a dollar but you know it's more likely to oscillate above and below one so with that in mind the weather coming down would be ultimately what results in a decrease in the weather over time so there's you know the short answer is and it's not really a short answer because the the peg maintenance model uh relies on a variety of factors but if we just isolate the demand for soil um the question is well how does beanstalk treat so in short just to summarize beanstalk increases or decreases the weather uh by one or three percent uh every season or keeps it the same based on the time weighted average price over the previous season the pod rate and the change in demand for soil uh over the previous two seasons and so if we look at again this is why it's not such a short answer uh it's page 17 and 18 in the white paper um this kind of covers the in detail how beanstalk measures demand for soil um so specifically the language that you're referring to which is something that we reference pretty often is in the bottom half of uh page 17 which says however when beans are sown in all or almost all soil and consecutive seasons uh that variable which is the rate of change in demand for soil can inaccurately measure changing demand for soil so for example let's say that in back to back seasons there's around a hundred thousand soil right and or a thousand so it doesn't matter and in both seasons all 1000 soil has been sewn into it however uh if in one season all of those beans were sown within a minute of the season starting and in the next season it took 30 minutes of the season you know that the goal is for beanstalk to be able to look at that and realize that that's actually a decrease in demand for soil because the previous season there was uh less time necessary to attract demand if that makes sense so what but there's that level of complexity in the model which is that uh beanstalk measures the time in addition to [Music] uh the amount of beans that were sown each season in order to more accurately measure demand for soil however um and this is why it's not such a short answer under the new soil policies uh there's a couple of uh interesting complexities introduced here because uh if you have alternating seasons where the price is above one and then below one um in back to back seasons you may have ten thousand soil one season and then a hundred soil the next season and so then it's like well how do you compare demand for ten thousand soil compared to demand soil and that's where more recently we have commented that the way that beanstalk measures demand for soil can be uh re you know overhauled or improved in sophistication to account for the new soil mechanism if that makes sense but if anything that's going to be like more of a fine tuning and less than less of like a real problem with the demand for soil mechanism if that makes sense or the way that bean stuff measures it and uh we would expect that uh the weather will start to come down to some extent if we continue to see excessive demand for soil okay yeah that makes sense so it's i'm looking at this it is a little bit more complicated than i i had basically thought that if we were soil was being cleared out every season then that would basically and we were close to peg that it would like if we were oscillating above below peg that weather would go down it sounds like there's a little bit more uh there's more variables in it that i'll have to look over but in general uh that's interesting i did post in the class discussion the relevant portion of the white paper and the graph so people can take a look at that um but that uh the real rate of return graph uh is interesting and uh so yeah anyway thanks for uh for diving into that a little bit definitely i have a little bit of homework to do in in going over some of these equations in the white paper um does anyone else have any last questions i think we can probably if not we can probably call it a wrap oh good bean king okay well being king i think you took your hand down i'm inviting you to speak there you go i sent you the invite being king there you are hi can everybody hear me yes we can all right uh first off you know just apologies for my username i know publius uh publius are the two kings of beanstalk i'm sure you're not sure no no no i was just tempted to start singing like a lion king theme song like as a troll that was the only thing that went through my mind here um great um well i have a question um i wrote it down in one of the channels it's essentially that you know one of the big value adds that crypto has is that there's parts of protocols which are just totally immutable you know for example bitcoin there's 21 million you know and it's not going to be changed and that's kind of the meme that powers it um or one of the memes that powers it um so i'm curious from from the perspective of publius uh what are the things that you see about beanstalk as being candidates for just full immutability uh and you know are there any that you have the intentions of making immutable you know for example like the 50 50 silo pod line split when new beans are created or other characteristics of the protocol similar to that so you know first i'll just say i love i really love this question like this is exactly within the ethos of our community so awesome question um and your name actually betrays such a good question um with that said i think before we answer like your substantive question as to what might be a candidate we would just highlight a caveat which is um the diamond standard doesn't really facilitate this in a way that would be possible at the moment and uh even if it were upgraded to support it then that would require us to basically migrate to that contract most likely so i mean it would be a total show um so while that's possible potentially in the future like you know highly unlikely or at least highly unlikely to happen anytime in the near future and if it did it would be like a real overhaul to the structure of the code to support like making some of it mutable and some of it immune however with that said i do think that if not from like a ethos and mission statement and like community values perspective everyone can make clear that certain things are immutable by our standard um you know i think i think that would that would probably similarly be in line with that he though sin um i i would just i'd maybe highlight that you know there's yeah there's a similar ethos to the fact that the 21 million supply guarantee is uh enforced by the miners that are continuing to run code that enforces that um can like there's a parallel there with uh stock owners continuing to um vote for a version of beanstalk that maintains those policies so i would almost argue you don't need to put it explicitly into the smart contracts uh as long as you have sufficient incentives that enforce that in practice um if that makes sense now to answer go ahead oh yeah i was going to say you can kind of split this i think into two questions of you know are are there of of the parameters uh is there some set that you would think that would be immutable or you think would be candidates and then there's kind of the more technical um you know implementation level questions of when some of them might be voted to become immutable or something like that or even if they could you know or if our government's mechanism will just allow um you know yes so i touched on the second one at least somewhat substantively so to answer maybe the former question now um as to what might be a candidate to become immutable i think the 50 50 payment from to silo and field that is a core uh part of the protocol and ensures the alignment of uh stockholders and pod holders and uh you know that that doesn't need to change ever most likely um it's very hard to imagine a scenario where that would make sense to change um certainly at this point in time um so that would probably be one i think similarly uh it's a really bad look to mint pods anywhere but the back of the pod line uh to compromise the integrity of the first in first out schedule would be uh catastrophic to people's faith in the model like why lend at the end of the system if you can like kind of wrangle the system into lending you somewhere else in the pod line so uh we would never support that that would kind of be like capitulation um and a total sacrificing of the integrity of the model um beyond that i'm literally scrolling through the white paper here um i mean it's hard to imagine the voting period uh or at least the like we would want to enforce some sort of uh like 50 quorum uh and a two-thirds super majority to pass things before the week-long uh 168 season uh dip time so there are like certain things from a governance perspective you might want to enforce um i think you know i think that's probably it for now off the top of my head that would be a candidate you know for something that we would say we would never want to change under any circumstances like a lot of the system to be honest is like being stopped measuring the market and then responding to it so both the measurements and the responses can be improved and tweaked and improved in efficiency in various ways so we don't like it would be very foolish of us in our opinion to claim like the current model is the most efficient that it could ever become and therefore we'd be more inclined to have like a pro like a a really robust community review process to incorporate those types of changes as opposed to like banning them all together awesome that was a really helpful answer that helped clarify it a lot i appreciate it is being king all right well i think that will probably probably do um it was a great uh great class everyone wanted to throw a couple reminders out there uh come to the dow meeting on thursday uh before that an hour and a half before that we have that's at 8 30 eastern um and an hour and a half before that we have the twitter spaces so we'd love to see some people there that's going to be uh hype hype bay ipo and chill jw and i and then other than that you can look for a updated job board we're going to have a job board with a lot of open positions that we're trying to have out by thursday so we'll announce that at the dow meeting but uh you can look for that and a lot of other great stuff in the works anything else you want to say uh i think that's it for class thank you guys for coming and love these types of questions i mean it really does just speak to the quality of the community that this is the type of discussion going on so thank you guys for being so great and curious and thoughtful you