Beanstalk - The Path Forward #2

April 21, 2022

0:50 Top of Mind thoughts from Publius • 3:20 Generalized convert and minting timing • 4:42 Thoughts on potential Luna collab • 6:11 Thoughts on early bid bonuses for Barn Raise • 8:05 How we will measure value of $1 going forward • 9:49 Timeline to add Eth:Bean Uniswap pool • 10:14 Barn Raise BeaNFTs • 11:17 Soft cap and other considerations for the Barn Raise • 22:44 Curve pool / CVX / Gauge considerations • 23:50 Questions around haircut • 26:48 Estimate on how long it’ll take Bean to regain peg • 29:26 UX considerations on haircuts and withdrawals • 33:20 Price at relaunch • 34:11 Discussion around Silo mechanics and governance • 40:37 Discussion around security • 56:00 Thoughts on Omniscia • 57:17 Suggestion to issue more soil beyond Barn Raise • 1:01:27 DAO member Rose offering to lead recruitment effort for Security expert • 1:03:19 How does haircut affect % ownership of exploit victims? • 1:06:22 Possibility of exploited Siloers being able lock up longer to get less of a haircut • 1:13:20 What asset should we raise with? • 1:18:14 Marketing efforts • 1:24:10 What would the initial Silo pool be upon Restart? • 1:28:27 Can Barn Raise pods be in the pod marketplace? • 1:30:53 More UX considerations on haircuts and withdrawals and Barn Raise • 1:38:22 What will happen to the pre-exploit pod marketplace? • 1:39:49 Thoughts on CVX • 1:41:04 Seigniorage considerations during Barn Raise and restart • 1:43:21 Who to reach out if you want to help out with the protocol • 1:44:38 Why no collateral? • 1:50:03 Discussion on weather adjustments • 1:52:38 Will the vesting construct create artificial supply / demand? • 1:55:20 FBI investigation updates • 1:56:10 Any regulatory downsides to Publius doxxing? • 1:58:29 Lessons learned on on-chain governance • 2:00:00 How to know how many Beans we had pre-exploit? • 2:01:15 Visibility into bids during Barn raise • 2:02:05 Plan if FBI recovers funds • 2:03:25 Bidding mechanics • 2:04:45 What happens to pods that were harvestable when the exploit happened? • 2:05:13 More on on-chain governance lessons • 2:06:33 What are key metrics once Barn Raise is done

The Path Forward


Notes and Questions

Notes and Questions


you know it's funny uh it took months for us to get published mic to work and now that we're off the microphone disorders uh now it's impossible to hear him again so uh funny how that works all right all three publishers yeah okay hello everyone uh we're doing uh another ama here it's been uh plenty of new stuff to talk about um i'm sure you've all read some of the new documents that have been dropped um you can queue up your questions in the classroom chat you can also raise your hands and i'll uh bring people up here is there anything else that's top of mind publius that you want to maybe uh bounce before we before we kick it off for questions uh you know would just say uh it's it's kind of incredible to watch everyone who prior to the attack was working on being stuck in some capacity who now has like self-selected themselves to just keep working on it even though now there's you know no value there at the moment and no expectation to pay from beanstalk farms all these people who are just not just working but just cheffing and making some cool [ __ ] and uh all the content that went out today from beanstalk farms is so cool to see and uh very just inspired very inspired by the beanstalk community and are grateful uh for the opportunity i think we all have in front of us to to collectively work to get beanstalk back up and running so this is uh yeah this is this has been a crazy roller coaster of a week but at a high level feeling just very grateful for our community and inspired yeah you know i i gotta say i don't feel that different from last week at this time uh i feel like we're just you know like you said wake up you it's wake up uh you know code i think uh publius uh said wake up code go to sleep and uh just wake up work on beanstalk farms sell tv go to sleep so and as far as everyone pulling together something i tweeted today was that someone said it's crazy i'm feeling more bullish you know uh about being stuck now than i did before uh you know before the exploit and i said i resp replied i said it's not really that crazy it's kind of like believing more in your community after there's a big fire and everyone pulls together to you know to to work on fixing the buildings and rebuilding after a fire it makes sense that you'd feel stronger about your community after that you might be temporarily weaker but long-term you're stronger for it so there might agree more and i'll quit blabbing so here we go harry smith rest in my chops uh will the protocol launch with generalized convert minting that was in progress pre-exploit harry smith you don't miss a beat and we love you for it um the short answer is that for simplicity's sake we think it probably makes sense to launch with a single liquidity pool and therefore there wouldn't be any need for generalized converter minting at launch however all of that code or the vast majority of that code maybe not all of it but a lot of that code has already been written and was getting prepared for audit uh anyways and so the hope would be that uh if it's not in the in beanstalk when it goes live again because that will most likely be very similar to what was previously live but without convert if there's only one liquidity pool the hope would be that assuming things are uh moving smoothly there's no reason why beanstalk couldn't quickly move to other liquidity pools and have generalized convert and minting across some of those pools i'm going back up a little bit from jams we have thoughts on that luna tweet and potentially 20 million dollars of quote free lp i don't know if you saw this tweet um but it is in the classroom chat up about 10 comments nothing no real thoughts on something like this okay from biendolf other than we think ust is very cool and you know think this is something that would be very interesting to consider there's no reason not to do the raise and launch the initial pool as it being ust pool for example like we have no problem with that so that's something that should certainly be considered if we think that there's one set of holders that are going to be you know token holders that are going to be more inclined to do something like this uh there's no reason why not to maybe open up beanstalk to a variety of different uh currencies to sew in and then uh you know if again launch with one liquidity pool but maybe at least make it such that beanstalk could attract other capital all righty um beandolf what are the thoughts around what the early bid bonus would be the estimated multipliers that make sense etc well it's a great question no i don't know if i have a good answer um in theory something like three percent per day so if you bid on the first day you get like a 21 bonus that's interesting uh and then if you bid on the second day you get an 18 bonus and so on and so forth now the first question is should the bonus be as a multiplier or as an addition the thought is not to make it a multiplier but just to make it uh as a plus although there is a thought that maybe it's you should be more aggressive and make it as a time so if there's a you know 21 multiplier it would be whatever pods you would have otherwise gotten it's times 1.21 um now you could be super aggressive and do something like if you so on the first if you bid in the first hour of the bidding process again it'll be like 168 hours over the course of the week uh the concept is maybe you could do something like you get a a huge bonus like 168 percent to just encourage people to ape in but at some point then you know you you risk over front loading it so there's some there's some elegant middle ground there uh not sure what it is but i'm sure the community will there's a lot of discussions that we've been a part of and that uh people seem to be having as to what that slope that makes sense is and what how discrete to make it and you know don't think that it's too substantive in the grand scheme of things but it's important to get right okay austin posted a good question from uh general today how will we measure the dollar value before we were taking the usdc eth unit swap oracle and comparing it with the the ration with the bean eath pool now this will be uh now how will this be achieved if there's no bean eat pool to begin with so uh the short answer is that because all of the work for generalized minting was completed uh such that beanstalk could mint based on the excess beans uh or shortage of beans in the bean three curve pool over the previous season uh you know that that's basically how it would function so uh you know publish do you want to comment on the technical aspects of that uh in any more detail at the moment um you know not quite sure what there is to comment on in regards to that you know we kind of you know have the generalized minting math sought out for a generic curve metaphor if we did end up launching with the curve plane pool the math wouldn't be too different um you know there's going to be a little bit of friction there regarding you know certain curve pools can't you know aren't launched with time weighted average liquidity or time weighted average price um so you know if if you know beanstalk farms gets to the point where you know we're we're deploying under curve pool um yeah there's a little bit of friction around there we need to solve but you know shouldn't be too much more than that and um i didn't hear this earlier but um what is the anticipated timeline to add the east bean unit swap the east bean unit swap pool no timeline it'll i mean the short answer is after beanstalk is back up and running that'll be for the dow to kind of evaluate how quickly to move on stuff and uh you know don't really have any sense okay next question will there be any bean ft's uh the short answer is you know i think it would be a real shame a real shame if there were not being fts uh for the barn raiser so uh the cool thing about the community is that we're at the point where uh i haven't had anything to do with that but i'm gonna bet the over that there will be some bnfts for the barn raiser don't know exactly i actually have no information about them other than i think people are working on them but uh yeah you know that's a a great idea and one one uh we hope happens i think you're there it's probably not not going to be any bnfts that's what i would say okay uh from the black knight regarding the barn rays there's no mention of a soft cap to move forward there have been mentions a few times stating that bean can reboot with minimal funds my concern is that if the barn raise doesn't hit a soft cap we're all faced with a high percent haircut would it not be practical to at least know what a soft cap would look like that's a great question uh and maybe maybe there should be a soft cap uh i think 10 million dollars would be like a very reasonable number for that you know to throw something out i don't it's hard to get a sense right the current plan is such that beanstalk could really relaunch at any scale now if there really is only one percent of the funds raised um you know less than a million dollars uh maybe it doesn't make sense to for everyone to keep working on this um maybe that yeah maybe that's a reasonable position to take uh from our perspective you know that's that's something that probably needs to be sourced from the from the dow and from you know from people that are working on beanstalk what might be the threshold below which they're uninclined to work on beanstalk but uh you know from our perspective uh there's there's no real minimum i have the black knight here so i'm gonna bring him up in case he wants to continue that discussion fantastic thanks very much yeah i mean i've obviously been following you know all the proposals etc and um you know a typical token event of this nature kind of thing you'd always want to kind of make sure that you you retain x amount of funding right because obviously you've got you know in a typical project you want to make sure you deliver x y and z right if you only if you only reach a particular soft cap then you know only x and y can kind of go forward as well so my fear is that that's a great it's a great point and i actually think this is one of the key differences between beanstalk and capital raises there's no work to be done you know the funds will be raised and then beanstalk is restarted so there's no work that anyone's doing uh that is contingent on raising enough capital it's just the capital will be raised and bean stock will be restarted right so i think this is actually a key difference where beanstalk is fundamentally structurally different from a project where there's work that needs to be done right there's there's a uh something that needs to be implemented uh beanstalk already exists so once the fundraise is complete uh it'll be merely a question of turning it on with the new parameters effectively without governance yeah and that's a that's a very good point as well yeah so i respect that i i think the key part is is that while i've got a lot of confidence and yeah we there's a lot of community the community is obviously very excited there's lots of talk about you know a lot of high uh big big investments right which is really great right but talk is talk right action is a different thing right my theory is that we're going to have one shot this kind of barn bond sale right and it's kind of that's that's the kind of make or break of of where we kind of wipe or kind of break even with people's haircuts and such so if if if there isn't a soft cap as such then it's kind of going well sorry guys we we give it a we give it a shot but you've you you've lost 80 in a haircut right uh but you know over over time we made that back but if there's some confidence that unless we do have a soft cup in place then you're only going to be faced with you know x amount of loss straight off the bat at least that way we said well we tried to do the bomb raise maybe there's lessons learned there but if we don't hit that soft cap we can do it we can do a plan b to make sure that we do have more confidence of hitting at least the next software i would make the point there's really one shot here and if and if you know everyone decides to set a minimum and it's not reached the thought would be well you know i guess at that point we're all going home because there's no demand for beanstalk and beans so that's from my perspective if you if you set a minimum it's a very there's almost a nice element of that of giving everyone a target and it's like you know if if beanstalk can't get to this threshold then yeah maybe i yeah i agree right to some extent right but i i do feel that there's probably elements that can be incentivized a little bit more to kind of really maximize the uh the input here right so while there is only one shot it there's no reason why there can't be kind of some high level of confidence that we are definitely going to hit that soft cap as such so that's all i'm going to say there i don't want to kind of i understand that the models there it's ready to kind of get kickstarted fantastic but it's just more to do with you know what where is the incentivization to kind of throw money back at this because at the moment as an as an investor i put in a lot of money um and at the moment i'm still on the fence in regards to if i was to scrape up more funds is it really worth my while in regards to going back in i'm not feeling that sweetener there to kind of for me to jump back in it right so that's bad so i love being heavily so let me ask you the black knight what what do you have in mind as something that to you in particular would make you more likely to participate well i'll communicate my uh my views in regards to where where we can kind of incentivize this is an open forum everyone's listening so let's let's discuss okay all right well basically uh i felt that there was there should be a a dual wrong kind of approach there you know there's liquid generation events we're trying to we're trying to have we're trying to recap on the on the on the uh on the liquidity right so at the moment we're going to be doing podline only uh which which would result in the liquidity but if there was a more of a a dual dual pronged approach where you had a liquid generation event where people donated their their stable and that resulted in in a multiplier then you'd kind of have a two-stage approach where you'd actually have that liquidity in place then you can do a bomb raise with a pod line but you'd already have the pre-res prerizoque in place to actually kind of kick the the um the pod line into place straight away so i mean i know that's all kind of all random but uh it's just more to do with a heavier focus on this barn raise i just feel that it's just very um but it's very simplistic to the point where there's less moving parts which is good but uh it's just yeah maybe i'm over overthinking this but um also as well with the pods it's it's kind of it is it's going to be uh what's the what's so i'm just trying to read up on the it's going to be a fundraiser right so i suppose i don't know i just don't see the tiered structure in regards that is clear in august if i was to invest a million dollars what does that look like from an investment perspective on it there's there's still some gaps there which i feel that probably just need to be ironed out over the next kind of following week well like what give me an example well okay there's two investors right they each got a million dollars right what's what what's the difference between person i in person be investing their million dollars well it depends what what are the circumstances right so there's gonna be well there's a weather there's two there's two main factors one is the day at which you bid there's in theory gonna be some bonus when you bid if you bid on the first day and your bid wins you'll get like a 21 bonus if it's three percent per day for example so if you if you're if you bid a hundred percent weather and then you bid on the first day and it clears you'll get 121 weather for example now uh the other thing so there's two real things you can do you can bid the weather and you can uh bid in advance such that you get some sort of bonus those are the two places where you know if a and b put in a million dollars there may be a difference in the return that they get and then obviously because the pod line is first in first out the the place in line is going to be different depending on who sews first okay all right i'm gonna step down anyway i don't want to dominate this situation i just wanted to kind of air some of my thoughts uh due to it yeah due to my circumstances but that's right i'm gonna step down i don't want to rustle people's feathers obviously everyone else has got confidence in regards to the bar sale so yeah i just wanted to kind of just share some thoughts so thank you for your time yeah i mean the only other thing i would say is that simple simple is really better you know and so i understand your point about maybe there being benefits to additional complexity at the micro level but at a macro level in practice it's very hard to imagine that given the short notice and the amount of capital that beanstalk needs to raise in the people that need to be educated about how beanstalk works uh it makes sense to add additional layers of complexity for marginal benefits so uh in my opinion this is a very simple solution i think that economically all of the participants should be very well aligned and my my guess is over the length of this call we make it into some of the minutia there but that's the general structure or the idea behind the structure maybe okay thanks for your time and uh yeah totally confident about moving forward so let's see what unfolds thank you thanks black knight also there's going to be uh you know as you continue thinking about this and as we continue putting out more um you know you've been a friendly face around so i'm sure that you can hop on in a day or two and ask another question i just invited rose up on the stage and in the meantime i will check the chat okay we have uh from tricky huddle any thoughts to pivoting to a single curve pool and fast tracking acquisition of protocol owned cvx and or vcrv above and beyond the minimum required to get a gauge and use that to boost the apy high from the outset highest apy on curved convex is an easy way to get attention and then attract liquidity so given how difficult it was to get a curved gauge the first time i don't think that's going to be possible at launch but we do have a nice relationship with the curve people now so hopefully that won't be too difficult after launch but don't think that's feasible at the get-go and would also maybe just add to that i think it's better to start with beanstalk native liquidity as opposed to bribed liquidity or externally incentivized liquidity [Music] uh yeah rose we can hear you okay i posted a question but i will say it out here over here as well my question is say we raise 50 percent um and is there a scenario with that 50 raise for the currently invested folks not to be able to get minimum 50 back granted they wait the full vesting period uh when you say the full amount uh well the fifty percent well just to be clear i know no but just allow me to just be as clear as possible the idea is assuming that you withdraw and sell your beans for a dollar if that's the case right so uh you could wait until the full vesting period happens and then if the price was below a dollar then you'd you know technically i don't know if you're getting the full amount but the idea is uh uh in the spirit of the question that you were asking i think the answer is no if you wait the full vesting period uh which which is currently the thought is until the new pod line is fully paid back instead of the hundred days something arbitrary uh i i actually don't know who to attribute the idea to but somebody suggested it and it's a very elegant solution um where the the vesting haircut or the the vesting cut will be determined by the percentage of the new pod line that's been paid off and therefore if you wait until all of the lenders that come in to bail out the system are paid back uh then there's no additional haircut you know which we think is very elegant but the haircut will be determined by the actual end of the fundraise so if if we only raise 50 percent that is pretty much a predetermined haircut that's a haircut that would happen but then there's no additional haircut if you wait until after the new pod line is paid back so there is a second haircut if you don't wait okay that makes sense okay yeah i understand both of those uh what about uh the dependency on bean gaining its peg back wouldn't there be a dependency as well on top of these two elements well again this kind of goes to the the presumption is that all of the new podline has been paid back or harvested which de facto means that beans are a peg right so that's like almost implicit in the question okay i'm so new to it so thank you for being patient with me no no problem whatsoever and i don't mean to to condescend in any way no no didn't at all at all actually um so what are the thoughts so far from like uh i know that initially getting peg was a bit challenging and there was some changes to the economics or the code which made it a lot more feasible for being to gain its pack granted that we haven't lost being stuck hasn't lost this popularity to the to the audience because of the because of the robbery it just went through pretty much right uh and it stays intact what what what would be an estimate for me to get guinness peg back roughly so this is the main benefit of the haircut if that makes sense so from my perspective i've been trying to uh figure out the best way to explain it there's really three stages to what's going on three parts one is the barn race itself then there's the haircut based on how successful the barn raises and then there's the vesting period right and so the benefit of the haircut which there's no period it'll just happen at the time beanstalk is uh restarted effectively based on how successful the fundraise is uh the idea is that haircut is what will create the sustainability in peg maintenance because if only fifty percent of the funds are raised the entire system is being scaled down by fifty percent uh and and therefore there's no reason to expect the the circumstances to have substantively changed such that there's going to be a large uh a large mismatch of excess supply now additionally if we talk about the vesting this is actually something that will have a unique effect on beanstalk that is new because to date there's been other than the withdrawal freeze uh which again has never been more than a day and it's now i think four or five seasons the idea is because of the withdrawal freeze that's the only friction around withdrawing now because of this vesting uh the cell pressure from people withdrawing from the silo and selling is going to be dramatically reduced dramatically reduced so in many respects uh would expect there to be limited supply pressure relative to demand which is almost what you want given the fact that the system is being reset and scaled down you would want it to be you know in a position that's sustainable and strong as opposed to then immediately depend now that's not to say that there won't be some beans that were liquid or circulating that are then sold but the concept is that uh you know in the grand scheme of things apples to apples there's likely to be less cell pressure than there was before now it is worth noting despite the vesting under this idea two-thirds of the new bean senior ridge will go towards pod harvest now so at the margin each season there would be slightly more beans that could be immediately sold on the market but don't think that that will have you know the most significant effect in the grand scheme of things so now when people uh let's say somebody decides to it's just like i want out of it on day one that when this gets turned on right will they get proper notification on regardless of what day of the vesting without being fully vested that how much they're leaving on the table so the short answer is that you know the the ux team is probably more more uh positioned to speak on uh but the short answer is in the same way that uh for a long time the language on the ux has been pretty good around withdrawal stating you will burn this stock you will burn these seeds you know your assets will be frozen yadda uh you know you'd expect there to be a similar level of clarity uh for users who are withdrawing that they would be forfeiting you know uh their their their claims to the bdv that they otherwise could could uh claim more of if they waited or something like that would there be essentially a calculator bit with it as well just a pure simple warning uh again not i'm not very hard to say uh because i i haven't spoken to the people that are working on the the ux for this uh at all any way to circle back and and put back this on to the discord somehow uh long story short i'm trying to look right now if any of the oh uh not to put you on the spot uh but jelly bean any chance you uh can can hop up here and talk a little bit about the ux process or uh you know no pressure if not but if you'd like to come up here feel free to raise your hand um and we'll we'll get you up here to comment jelly bean is uh uh head of the product design team at beanstalk farms jelly bean is um just asked to speak but then for some reason that says invite sent already let's see i'm gonna dismiss you and then raise your hand again okay raise your hand again now [Music] oh hold on she dm'd me oh she says wait i can't talk now sorry um but rose if you're gonna maybe jelly if if you can talk in a second or you know in maybe 20 minutes or something she could hop back maybe we'll get jelly up here later to address your question rose or otherwise i'm sure there will be some uh response uh posted in the discord or something like that that sounds completely fine that sounds perfect but i would say as you can tell we're all figuring this out in real time together here rose yes totally get it no worries usually our goal with ui is you know is clarity and before something happens you know like i'm thinking when you were converting beans into lp you know it would say here's what the beans are going to do and here's what you know here's how many more seeds you're going to get and if it's going to burn stock it would say how many stock it was going to burn so i think that we would take this very seriously and obviously say hey you know if you're selling 100 of beans here and and the haircut is 25 i think that would say you're you will receive 75 beans after that you know i think that that seems like the typical path for us so i i wouldn't uh put you anything to say to that i already said it okay okay uh but we can also um i'm sure that we can we can get someone from the team up uh the next maybe the next uh ama or if joey can hop on a little bit later yeah i had another question i have totally lost it and i'll probably raise my hand again all right no no problem you can always raise your hand again um okay so next pubes i gotta i got one for you um what price is being going to be when it relaunches so i don't actually know um probably at whatever price it was at before the attack um probably that maybe a dollar though but probably that i believe it was something like a dollar three yeah something like that um but uh you know it's also very possible that it might just launch at exactly a dollar if that makes sense so uh those would be the two options at the moment okay i just brought minecraft grifter i believe you had a question for me minecraft uh yeah i asked in the uh chat what are the current plans to rectify the silo engagement because it seems like if if the community had just had more of the market cap wrapped up in the silo uh what happened wouldn't have been able to happen obviously like it would have been available to public markets so is there a plan to rectify that or uh anything on the table there so i think that might be a little bit of a misconception uh the engagement in the silo is not the issue in the sense that the only way to acquire stock is to deposit assets in the silo so they're what and stock isn't even liquid so it wasn't a question of like many of the people that are in the silo sold their stock and don't care and then it was bought on the open market this was the result of a flash loan attack that allowed someone to deposit uh like a billion dollars of assets in the silo at once to acquire a two-thirds majority that had nothing to do with numbers engagement in the silo but you see he he acquired the assets that can be deposited into the silo if a greater share of those assets were already in the silo if they were already in the hands of stockholders it's like that's like ethereum that's like three curve and usdc and lusd that's like you know billions of other assets that that's the problem is um how i did fundamentally just like that's that's the weakness in the system i mean i i i don't know how you can say that beanstalk was starting to dramatically attract a lot of liquidity in the form of ethereum and three curve in lusd and that was a clear sign of success the idea that you're going to look at the state and say well it's not big enough and that's an indication that it wasn't doing well i think that's a totally wrong take well i'm not saying that it uh wasn't big enough the trouble is that uh it just made the governance especially susceptible to outside um decisions to put a lot of money in right which isn't exactly the the most secure position to be in uh i would have said um maybe i should have said not in regards to necessarily the white listed assets uh but would you be willing to change any of the white listed assets going forward to acquire stock would you be willing to move uh into a different direction there or would you or is there like another plan for maybe changing the amount of stock that's paid out so maybe to reward older deposits with more stock so to ensure that new deposits can't have something that takes over in less than a minute or something like that like do you understand what i'm saying so respectfully i think a lot of the things that you're talking about are already a part of the model uh the only question i feel like i can actually answer is uh whether or not you know the white listed assets should be changed and the thought is at launch there will likely only be beans and a single lp token whitelisted or at restart what that lp token is is unclear and what what uh liquidity pools or or lp tokens are whitelisted going forward as uh as always an open question for the doubt so uh no real answer there but that would be the only part of your question i can really feel like i i can actually address other than to say you know do substantively disagree on your assertion about uh the size of the market and would note that uh people do accrue more stock over time the longer they're deposited in the silo however in theory there's no amount of additional stock that they could have accrued that would have prevented this attack from being possible if you assume that uh the amount of assets that could be flash loaned were greater than the size of beanstalk effectively so uh you know in theory you're correct that if beanstalk were larger uh you know significantly larger than all of the assets that were available on the ethereum network for such an attack that would therefore make it resistant to such an attack but you know that's like a tautology so uh but but in that case i guess you would be correct yeah the um in regards to flash loading i mean like a common uh thing we'll see in contracts with um with startups is what we'll do is we'll take um something like an agreement to have half of the shares in the company allotted to a given uh entity and then what we'll do is we'll make them wait like 365 days or three years or whatever until they get like 80 like balloons basically so they pay out like 20 for the first x and then 80 the next x um with flash loans something like that could potentially uh protect against it whereby uh stock is in initially given to older investors legacy investors um when money goes into or assets go into the uh the governance system of any protocol uh but otherwise yeah you're correct in that there's there's no way to protect against the flash alone thing but that's just like um that's like doubts like infinite money can buy infinite votes thank you very much [Music] okay we have uh beanology can you hear me can you hear me yeah we can hear you one more time can you hear me yes go ahead thank you thank you thank you um i'm gonna re-prize a comment i left in the discord a couple nights ago kind of late at night so a good number of people didn't see it but a lot of people did see it and it was highly reacted to and it was about security um so first let me just acknowledge that i haven't heard or read everything in the discord or all of these amas i have listened to a bunch of most of them so i may have missed some of the conversations about it that said it's still even with my sort of somewhat limited sample size seems like a highly disproportionate amount of the discourse in the aftermath of this has been about how are we going to get it up and running again and you know to be a big glib about it how am i going to get my money back how are we going to get people's money back are we going to spend the money machine up again and uh a disproportionately small amount about how are we going to avoid getting all the money taken away again um and i think that that that mentality i want to be fair about it i know you guys have been talking about it and thinking about it and acknowledging it in your blog post and stuff but that mentality was what was what got us in this in the first place was disproportionately about spinning it up and getting it going and making it successful and not enough about how to prevent it from getting attacked um so i just wanted to uh to put that out there like i in my comment i said i think you know every other word in every sentence you guys say for the next couple months should be security because that's the number one thing the number one thing is not how we get it up and running again and make it successful because even if you do that and security is number two then we're all [ __ ] again so um i just want to put in the word that like from the sidelines i'm not hearing as much about security as i would like to and i don't it it was like the number three thing in the plan for moving forward behind several other uh you know sections about how we're getting it up and running again and the the vesting and the percentages and the the new plan but it should be number one on the list and like a lot of the detail that you guys put out i think should be addressing that and so from where i sit again limited um doesn't seem like it's number one right now well i really appreciate those comments beanology and i i would say a couple things the first is uh it's a very fair point that maybe the the post should have led with the security and uh i'm sure the the people that wrote it hear this and uh you know it's like this is all no no one's perfect so uh with that said one of the main reasons why at least i haven't been talking that much about security is because 99 of the questions are not about it so if anything i should just say thank you for the opportunity to talk a little bit about it um but in general i think that's more a question of that's because of the questions that are being fielded and less a function of uh you know what's important if that makes sense uh and in fact one of the nice things about this proposal uh for how to move forward is that beanstalk can move forward at really any scale but as you say then the most important question is assuming you're moving forward how how can uh beanstalk uh be robust and secure enough such that it is uh not exposed to any any additional attacks like this right because that would be crippling and in short there's a lot a lot of different things that are being done on the security front um first uh governance had the governance facet which was the the vector where where the attack vector ultimately lied uh has been removed and from a theoretical perspective uh i would argue that the vast vast majority of potential attack vectors to beanstalk prior to the attack lied in the governance facet and the fact that through bips you could make arbitrary changes to beanstalk and so the fact that at the moment that has been removed is uh you know that's that cannot be understated as to how important that is um it's also although obviously it wasn't perfect it is important to know that beanstalk has been audited and the entire contract has been audited and the the concept that there are other glaring holes in other parts of the code such that the all of the assets could be drained other than via governance that uh you know that seems less likely given the structure of beanstalk uh and again it was automated to to to confirm things like that but obviously you know you got to take the audit with a grain of salt um with regards to future audits uh trail of bits still is scheduled to start in the beginning of june and one thing that is an open question that the dow ultimately needs to decide on is whether it makes sense to restart beanstalk uh shortly after the completion of the barn raiser or whether it makes sense to wait uh until after the trail of bits audit is complete to restart beanstalk independent of how the fundraiser goes and that's something that i think should be another snapshot that the dow should vote on uh because it's very hard to say uh what should be done there right so in the grand scheme of things that's a question of risk tolerance and time preference that everyone needs to vote on together but it's a very fair point uh we've also been uh trying very hard collectively uh and everyone who uh we talked to we're trying to see if anyone has access to uh computer security experts with particularly expertise in solidity and ethereum development and smart contract development uh easier said than done we're also trying to get in touch with other world-class auditing firms which is you know it is what it is basically it's very hard to get in touch with them but we're having more success than we did previously so there's a ton of different things that i think collectively everyone that's working on beanstalk it's doing to make sure that security is a paramount focus uh but agree that the fact that it wasn't the leader uh in in the in the the marketing content is uh yeah that might not be ideal uh and appreciate comments like that tremendously yeah for sure i appreciate that as well i'll just follow up and say um if it were me it would be i understand there's it's not easy to just pull up you know crypto security expert out of thin air but i would try to do that i would try to find somebody to put on the team whose only job is to be the adversary it is one of those things like the people that are the the there's just so few people there so this is a call if if you or anyone knows that person we are actively looking for them collectively we're all looking for them so uh like if they exist you know think they could come to beanstalk farms and drive a pretty tough bargain for uh you know what what it makes sense to be brought on as a full-time contributor like it's this is important tremendously important but it's really hard to find the right person frankly yeah i hear that and i i sympathize but it's also like if you don't have that person or the equivalent then there's a big hole and it's like that we had the seven seven departments before in the last quarterly call right and security wasn't one of them security should be one of them this time and whether it's you find that person and they're a full-time employee or you find a trusted you know uh auditing firm or consultancy or whatever it is because it didn't from comments you had made in the first call a couple days ago didn't seem like amnesia was going to continue to be a trusted ally um but it's like they're not in my opinion they're not right and so if we're if we're like surfing this wave without a trusted security ally on the wave right next to us then it seems like there's no point in really doing it because it's just going to get toasted again so it's like it it doesn't seem like uh i hope we can do that i hope we can find somebody does anybody know anybody it seems like if you can't do it you probably shouldn't continue if you can't find somebody that you feel like can be like uh why would i learn security do you think trail of bits is that like once trail of bits audits being stuck will you feel comfortable or or is this the type of thing where at this point there's no way to make you comfortable because of what's happened and i think some people will fall into that boat i i i don't uh i don't think it's about who does it i think it's about having a continuous presence doing it i disagree what the initial audit taught us is it's all about who does it well okay let's let's break that down a tiny bit uh if you buy that the amnesia audit was largely you know correct up to the point that they finished and then we kept moving and we couldn't get in contact with them and they were slow and not responsive to further changes then it's the further changes part that we you know got ahead of our skis on and that's the dangers i disagree i disagree there i don't think that's that's a factual a representation of the facts in practice okay the the the thing that was ultimately attacked has been in the code from the beginning and was audited by omnisha the emergency commit function has always been there the ability to acquire two-thirds of the stock and commit a bip uh has always been there so the concept that the work that amnesia didn't audit is the reason why this happened i think is is incorrect okay well they i i can't be a final arbiter of that i just when they said that it was something to do with the lp pools from yeah so respectfully you know didn't feel that was a uh didn't feel that was an honest characterization of uh events and you know we're not in the business of uh pointing fingers certainly like this is uh it's not a question of oh this is omniscious fault or it's not their fault or something like that but just in terms of the article they put out in their characterization of what the vulnerability that was exploited was uh i felt their article was entirely disingenuous okay let me just let me just finish with one last point because i i i'm not trying to disagree and i'm not really trying to be an adversary i want everybody to win but i still do think that there's value in having a presence there at more or less constantly more or less apples to apples 100 better 100 better and if if if that can be arranged for beanstalk or whenever that can be arranged for beanstalk i think that should become a permanent fixture of the community uh but you know i don't think that's that's gonna appear today or tomorrow per se unless someone knows the person i don't know the person so that's that's the thought basically and i think it's just about being honest with one another about unless that person is presented or brought forward shortly uh you know the idea of oh well we're not gonna as you said we can't move forward without it you know that's that's an attitude by which then i don't think we're moving forward basically because as far as i'm aware that person doesn't exist at the moment frankly and i think it's you know it's important to be honest about that yeah i i just think you should aim towards a moment as soon as possible where you do have that because otherwise you're sort of saying 100 years we're free riding without somebody evaluating this gets recapitalized if beanstalk gets recapitalized i know everyone else at beanstalk farms is working very hard i know everyone else in the community is working very hard to find that and this is a great dialogue beanology so that everyone is on the same page if you know someone who is a computer security or smart contract security expert uh like let's bring them in so i think that's the that's the point and appreciate what you're saying tremendously yes and then in very last closing if anybody knows somebody or if you guys know somebody that is a very good headhunter or recruiter that's what they do they they find people in all different walks of technology that are good and they vet them for you so it doesn't have to be a direct reference from the community it can be like do a snapshot where you pay somebody to go find that person it's that's that's not a new problem it's like there there are people out there that are really good at finding good people so anyway thanks for your time i'll jump off and uh appreciate it technology before you hop off um do you have any experience with oh i lost him i was just going to ask him about uh crypto headhunters because the few uh the tough space um all right i'm gonna head back to the classroom chat for oh no there was one more from uh from eightfold in general earlier okay i've just read the proposal and i've listened to the twitter space from last night i heard publius say that once we start that we will start with one silo a pure stable coin one and no eth bean one question how will we measure the dollar value before we will actually i'm sorry we already answered this question didn't we publish dublin you're sleeping at the wheel man come on we're only we're only an hour into this dumpling well we're going we're going for three hours oh my goodness setting us up all right let's do it we'll go as long as there are questions okay we got beanbankman refried it's one of the best names in the farm hey guys hey how's it going hey can you hear me yes i can hear you all right awesome um hey first of all a comment there um about the omnisha thing i mean the way that i feel about that is we should be absolutely in the business of pointing fingers but uh time and place right um i i think it's it's completely unfair the way that they've characterized it even the um you know the factual representation of what happened there so anyway just just a comment there that i wanted to uh can i get off my chest um yeah it's fair man it's fair and all i can say is uh [Music] it's it's a difficult situation and on on this end it's uh [Music] yeah uh we're just we don't we don't like to bad mouth anybody and uh but nonetheless totally sympathize with what you're saying a hundred percent and also as dumbling said you do have one of the best names in the discord so it's nice to have you up here and uh you know participating yeah yeah yeah thank you um um and i mean it's if not for anything else it's for the larger benefit of b5 right you know the community at large so um so the question i had was um with the way that this part line um you know the bond raised portland has been set up um in theory we have put a maximum weather there and the maximum number of parts that we're willing to issue right which is you're 75 million times whatever the max weather is assuming someone comes up with 75 million at the max weather that's going to be the length of the bot line um what my my idea on that which which uh uh which may or may not make sense um is if we let's say through the race raise uh half of it right um how about we keep the pot line open beyond that and once people see that beanstalk is churning again i think uh i think i think you're going in and out bean can hear me now now i can hear you okay no i was uh i was saying what if we keep the the bond raise spot line open um even if we just raise the 50 percent we will all take the hair cut but at the same time if we keep that line open um it might be more attractive to some people once they actually see the machine in motion again so two things one a couple things i think from an incentive perspective it's a little bit ugly in the sense that this is a one-time soil issuance you got to get people excited about it while it's a limited time there hasn't been any soil available for over a month this is for a short time their soil i think from a behavioral economics perspective that's important from a technical perspective to have the the fundraise continue to go and restart the system i think it's a nightmare so it's much easier to raise the money and then hit play than it is to have some sort of hybrid system and those would be the two main reasons i think it's it's better not to do that okay yeah i was just thinking at it from a point of you know we raise what we raise um however if there is a way that the system recovers fully again and and and you know starts to break it'll recover fully again but the way it will recover is through future growth and seniority not through continuing to plug the hole that that exists if that makes sense i think it i think it's much more advantageous for the protocol to say okay there's this one time haircut but going forward there's you know everything is back to normal basically as opposed to continuing to try to fill this this hole got it okay cut off cut off cut off the the limb and live to fight another day you know [Music] yep that's all i had thanks okay thanks bbr we've got aaron coming up hey you are currently muted in the meantime i'm going to bring rose back i think she remembered her question hey rose uh you guys have to unmute if you haven't unmuted i'm sorry i was miami it um so i i just want to uh to rem kind of like remind all of us that you know beanstalk like we all agree we could agree was a successful protocol in prob and and the structure of the the stable coin in such a unique way doesn't exist anywhere else on on the chain and if we could do if if beanstalk as a community and as founders could do that i think that i think that we need to stop saying we can't find a security expert and make it a mission to to bring and call that in for the community and not be in a given up stance because i think it's going to determine the further success of beanstalk when it comes back online for its next phase after such a brutal theft that has happened of all the fans i think that's going to be can i can i i hate to do this rose and i say that with a little bit of a smirk on my face do you want a volunteer to be in charge of this recruitment process this is the way it happens at beanstalk everyone just has to raise their hand and get their hands dirty i don't know if i can be charged i'll be happy to start a process if nobody else has or joined the team's mission for sure yeah let's do it let's do it i'm sure dumpling will reach out to you after this i'm the number one semiconductor company in the world so i've worked to have run a team of 100 engineers across the world for 20 years so this isn't something that's completely off limits for me and potentially be successful at i'll be happy to join the team and finding someone [ __ ] yeah all right dumpling your message after you oh yeah this this hey guys there's some magic happening here there's some magic happening here thank you rose welcome welcome to beanstalk no problem i'd be happy to help with this process um my other question if it's okay to take some more time and ask um since i'm still trying to understand and wrap my head around uh the uh recovering of the funds um how does if at all uh this haircut regardless of whatever presentation haircuts it impacts the share the percentage share of the of the impacted investors i would think that it wouldn't impact even if everybody got i don't know everyone gets a pro rat so everyone would still have exactly the same ownership of beanstalk before and after with the exception of the implied ownership added given bean supply is going to change because of the issuance of the new pod line if that makes sense so if you were previously at 30 million in line and you said okay 60 million of issuance until my pods harvest now that would be 90 million until my pods harvest so there is some change in the bean supply at which you will have value but in practice like currently once the haircut happens your your pro rata ownership of the system should not change but it would just take longer in the pod line if you're in the pod line that's correct well and longer defined as more beans need to be minted before you harvest okay well thank you for answering i think those were my my two big subjects that i had forgotten earlier and they came back to mind um excited to help the team uh hopefully make some progress on on heading in the direction of finding some security solution for for being stolen thanks rose i will um of course i just dm'd you of course i'll loop you into where we are currently with the search um i will say that you know this isn't the sort of job that you just post on linkedin and get so we where we are in this in that search right now is we're having people um three or four people actively reach out and create kind of the top of the funnel and then we're you know working our way through it and we're having our um you know our senior developers those people who then you know are actually having those those initial conversations to make sure the person is is really good and it's who they say there are so anyway that's that's kind of where we are but i will i just dm'd you and would love sounds like you'd love it if you could be helpful and anyone else who's in the audience right now this is absolutely incredible i can definitely offer that especially around security issues so um you know i'd love to see what has been tried already so i don't go repeating redundant things and unless they're really warranted well no we'll be in touch uh just respond to my dm and we'll get you going sounds great thank you uh aaron did you ever get your mic working i still see on my end that it says he's server muted i don't know how to unserver mute him but i see that he is server muted ah so what happened there is at some point he was he was leaving his mic on during a meeting and there was wind or something so let's see i'll unmute i'll mute him and unmute him and then aaron if you want to leave and then come back then it should work in the meantime we have uh aj oh aaron's back turns back all right okay awesome thank you um yeah i was wondering um if is there a possibility of allowing folks in the silo to stay beyond the point of 100 new potline payback um in order to get an opportunity even if it's over a long time to grow their hair back fully and thus you know have that loyalty create also stability and also confidence since you know the credit history is the backbone of beanstalk well so are you asking about the pod holders taking a haircut or the stock the silo members this well it would probably be for silo members um they keep their deposits there and don't create any additional cell pressure until the market cap would make it so that it doesn't affect beanstalk or whatever that is determined to be well i think the only problem with something like that aaron is it's really a question of what is a reasonable ask uh to make to lenders right that stockholders need to make and in practice if you're not willing to take a haircut at all uh if you're the first guy to make a bid or to get in line where you know i'm only putting in a million dollars and i don't know if anyone's coming in behind me if no one's going to take a haircut well she like that's nerd that's a very tough uh tough position to put people in where now they're going to bail out the whole system themselves like a little bit of a tragedy of the comments problem there so instead by getting everyone to accept the haircut such that if no one follows that first guy they're gonna be perfectly okay and in fact they may even prefer it that's a really good place to be right where people want to come in and they don't want anyone to come in behind them that's a system that's likely to attract a lot of additional capital so um you know would just say that from an incentive perspective i agree noah wants to take a haircut but think this is a reasonable a reasonable uh a reasonable solution to trying to make this as attractive as possible to people to come bail out beanstalk okay i understand that um and those folks i bail out beanstalk once they're completely paid um and you know that's not an issue anymore it may be you know months or less right under the current plan with the vesting so the haircut is separate from the vesting the vesting already makes that guarantee that there won't be any cell pressure uh or at least there won't be any cell pressure from silo members that are getting bailed out in excess of the proportion that the people that are performing the bailout are have already been able to redeem so that's already the case so the problem is now you're really just saying apples to apples let's you know let's cut down on what what we're willing to offer to the bailout and i don't think that necessarily makes sense i think maybe i'm being misunderstood maybe not i guess what i'm saying is after all the new money has been paid um if someone you know they can fast 100 percent of whatever the haircut is if they decide not to sell and you know take the hundred percent of whatever the haircut was but it will commit in whatever way it makes sense to stay for an extended period of time and not withdraw their their beings maybe never is there any point in time any length of time any market cap that would make it so that people have the opportunity to become whole if they commit to long term and even after the vesting period is over and they're able to take 100 of the hair cut out they just want to stay again i hear you but i think in practice you know it's like beggars can't be choosers let's see okay just wanted to put the idea out there and see i'm not sure um how would that affect the protocol after the fact in in the future it's not about that it's about in practice being able to attract as much capital now as possible right so you may say oh well in the long run i'll get all of my money back but does that really matter if beanstalk only restarts with one percent of the capital it had a couple weeks ago i would make the argument it's much better to make an aggressive uh offer as a dow and try to attract as much of that capital back as possible to get beanstalk back up and running as soon as possible if the if the haircut is 99 well regardless that's pretty you know even if you you still at some point could get all your beans back in in the grand scheme of things you're going to be way over diluted whenever that happens right so instead the goal is to try to figure out how can how can beanstalk attract enough demand such that everyone doesn't get way over diluted and i think that's where at the margin there needs to be a compelling offer made and i think it would be a mistake to try to over bargain on this particular aspect but that's just my opinion okay just wanted to put it out there just something i've been thinking about i've noticed in the chat so the people mentioned something to that effect on just one other question and then i'll end it there um and i apologize i haven't read the paper if i just i've been listening to all the chats and i didn't actually read it maybe it's in there but i i believe that even after it restarts whatever the haircut is we'll have stock and we'll continue to get being our portion of beans cemented is that correct can you repeat that i i don't think i got that um even after the haircut once beanstalk restarts some silo members will continue to get beans minted when it goes over a dollar and the pegs over a dollar okay that's what i thought i just wanted and those beans will not be subject towards to any sort of vest under the current proposal okay well thank you i appreciate the time yeah thank you aaron okay take care and can i just say your bnft matches your voice almost perfectly all right cool thank you i gotta grow a mustache now exactly exactly good stuff all right take care thank you thanks okay aj [Music] dr beans uh dj's been patiently waiting so we'll see if we can get him going oh god i have to exit quiet what's up dunks hey hey how's it going um so i was um i was i was thinking to ask a question about um like i've been i've been i've been watching go corn on twitter lately and he seems like very supportive of all algo coins and things like that and i know there's been some chats with you know you know talking about different assets and how which assets are we planning on raising with um and you know so i'm just wondering um you know how do you like like what are the options for you know what are the options and what are the pros and cons of raising with say eighth versus you know something like four pool or um well the four pool is not live yet if it were live that might be something very interesting to raise with ust is also very interesting to raise as being the starting pool uh fxs is i think in general if any of those communities were interested in some sort of uh upfront uh starting bonus for using that pool that would be very interesting to to to everyone at least in i mean i would think it would be so uh yeah yeah we're we're [Music] yeah it's a very good point dunks yeah i think i i just feel like i feel like there's some lit there's some form of you know like there's some form of you know a lot you know there's having some kinds of alliances around you know who's giving support right like ben stalk is and in some sense it's in a weak position but in some other sense it's not about weak and strong position but it's if people are positive some thinkers and i think people like you know uh fracks and even dokkon kind of signal signaling that they are positive some people who do want to support the industry like if we can you know if we if you know obviously when yeah some protocols are more likely to be supportive than others and if we can kind of work in that direction it might it might give us a really good starting point um just yeah very hard to disagree with you dunks very hard to disagree with you yeah it's exciting it's exciting though i've just i haven't even fully read through the um that the barn raising document but um yeah i really like the 10-day thing as well could you talk a little bit about the three-day idea and then there was a bit of pushback on it could you talk a little bit about what the 10-day thing like it yeah so now you guys know where you chicago people the 10 day is like a chance uh the rapper reference uh the the the the concept is in short it's very difficult for the market to price soil at the beginning however uh if you just run like the fundraiser the three-day auction without any sort of bidding process there's nothing to say that beanstalk won't be able to raise the money but it's it's likely to be sub-optimal for in terms of both the rate the weather that beanstalk is going to have to pay on average and potentially also the money that it raises so by allowing for there to be some sort of bidding process where bids are locked in uh and particularly the terms of the bid are that the only way that your bid won't fail at a given weather is if by the time the auction hits that weather all 76 million soil have been sown then that's a very compelling way for the market to gauge demand and in particular it does seem like there's a little bit of a game of chicken where people are a little concerned about the first couple million dollars coming in and feel like having this discovery period where uh you know people can indicate that they are and not just indicate but actually bid uh where the bids are locked in actual demand i think that will be very substantive towards alleviating a lot of people's concerns about the auction itself awesome aj did you ever get your mic working hey i hear ya hey guys um i might just jump in here if that's okay uh hang on one minute one second here um so i think a few of us on the call were around when uh price per bean was down at sort of like 23 cents and something that was you know incredibly powerful and is almost the superpower of beanstalk farms from my perspective is really the community meme of um farming and obviously of course the bnfts and i remember jumping on a call i'm pretty sure it was with um with uh dr beans at that point in time and getting a sneak preview into into the bmfts before they were launched and it was incredibly effective in in sort of driving this like viral almost marketing campaign to um quote meme the price back to peg and so a question from my perspective would be you know how how are you guys thinking about kind of like a broader marketing campaign to drive awareness and obviously to drive um interest from you know different investor segments uh to raise the bond uh the long and the short of it is uh there's a lot of different things that can be done to raise awareness but feel like respectfully there's a lot of publicity already around this thank you like uh we spoke to the wall street journal for an hour and 15 minutes yesterday uh believe there's a story coming out about beanstalk this week in the journal or tomorrow in the journal and also uh potentially another one next week about the barn race so like that's there's gonna be a lot of publicity around this thing is the point um now there is a whole marketing team on beanstalk farms and mod has raised his hand so we're gonna invite him up here to speak about that as well but the concept is uh think that between all the coverage beanstalk has gotten and it's going to continue to get it's likely that people are going to be highly aware of what's going on now the nfts again hinting to wink wink people are working on the nfts i don't know anything about it but uh think that there will be some nfts associated with the barn rays but don't know whether they'll be ready to use this marketing material i have no idea so mod what's up hi guys um i can touch in a little bit and as publius said um the media is out there um so we've had you know top media uh uh report about uh beanstalk and what has happened and we're reaching out to them they're reaching back actually uh for updates you know once once we've released uh uh the path forward uh uh many of them have come back uh uh for an update or the details of it um as public said we had an interview uh with what's rejoined yesterday uh we have uh follow-ups with other uh ones uh coming up as well so expect uh you know the bard race to be uh to be mentioned or to be you know uh pushed out there uh we will be having educational content as well about the uh barnard is basically you know introducing it explaining what the boundary is uh is how does it work how can participants you know participate what does it mean for them uh you'll hear a lot of publius as well he will be out there always taking questions uh explaining what the balance is for others so we're pushing all out when it comes to uh to market marketing and the main focus for it is again the boundaries what does it mean what does it mean for being stock and what does it mean for participants as well uh uh for it and any ideas any anything as well uh as such you we have we have a marketing uh channel that's on the on the discord so you know up into any any suggestions or any input as well yeah i i wanted to shout out the the communication uh since the exploit has been uh top notch like honestly it's um it's it's something you rarely see even in some of the best companies out there so yeah massive shout out um and i'm you know i'm excited for what i what i would say is like a call to action to to everyone on this call and everyone in the community to really like drive that kind of like grassroots awareness in addition to these um you know conversations with um the press as well so i think it's it's probably like a combination of of the two and i think like you know we're in a really good position now given what we've done in the last couple of days and worth saying that things are moving quite fast you know the past four days uh things have been uh uh you know it's like you're catching up with them we had a press release that was uh released two days ago it went like yesterday and basically it was you know explaining that there's a path forward uh we're removing today it was the day that we released the details uh of this plan so expect it to be you know to be updated and pushed around as well as we as we approach the boundaries thanks guys i'll drop off now thank you jay this is your last chance aj hello hey all right all right i can hear you you hear me aj has been sort of live tweeting these which has been pretty awesome so on twitter um aj i'm just gonna shout out your twitter in case anyone uh it's andrew picole so it's uh just andrew and then pete cole is is his last name there so yeah thanks for doing that and what's your question oh my god we lost aj oh my gosh after all that aj can you just type your question and i'll read it but i might i might ask my question then if that's yeah oh go ahead liam yeah um so with the with the barn raise um i've been hearing some you know uh i've heard some talk around it's going to be a bean usdc pool um i just wanted to uh you know and i apologize if this question's already been asked definitely not it would never be okay okay yeah so okay good all right let's just so that was some rumors that was going around um that i'd heard like what's the thinking around the pool being used as like the initial silo pool for uh it has to be a decentralized currency that uh a value of a dollar can be derived off of it so previously beanstalk started with ethereum which you can derive the value of a dollar off of it because it trades against plenty of dollars on ethereum mainnet but uh three curve uh was something that beanstalk was also going to start using uh to reference the price of being relative to a dollar uh once generalized minting went live and the the short answer is therefore the pool could be three curve uh as published was saying earlier whether it's a meta pool against three curve or a plane pool against something like brax or ust uh that's all similar so uh as long as it's decentralized truly decentralized um and there's a way to reference a dollar off of it don't think uh you know there's too much else to it and and i guess liquidity would be the other question yeah absolutely and i think and i think like probably the maybe the better question to what i was grasping at was what is what is the current thinking around you know the the type of pool that that's going to be used outside of decentralization in the sense of you know a three curve pool or um you know dare i even ask like is for pool being considered in the sense of you know adding leverage to you know potentially ghana support from the uh you know the terror and fracks community everything is on the table everything is on the table as far as i'm concerned it's like you know may the highest bidder win effectively right okay okay um [Music] uh okay understood understood so um there would there could be multiple pools not just one in theory great okay i think i think that there's probably some things i'm uh i need to get up to speed on here but um i think i think it's a little easier to deploy with a single pool to start but there's nothing to say that shortly thereafter there couldn't be other pools great okay awesome um yeah super super keen to um yeah uh like learn more about this as things evolve and um thanks for thanks for answering my question and and um helping clarify that for me thanks liam much appreciated [Music] bro jelly being up on stage um jellybean i know it's rose had a question earlier about the if someone was to withdraw their assets let's say that theoretically there's a 50 haircut um actually sorry theoretically let's see can you guys hear me yes we can hear you let's see i don't know if you're speaking because i know you're not on mute but i can't hear you so pooples can you hear me we can hear you for dumping this tv just to see if then you can hear dumpling yeah okay gives me time to get my thoughts together anyway i i don't know what the thoughts are whether they're needed everyone knows what the problem is we've all been but you're listening to yourself she was listening to i suppose yeah so whenever jelly can come back she can just start chatting i guess but in the meantime uh bean or rose uh why don't you rescue dumpling and i from uh our endless banter between one another hey i'll go hopefully it's a quick one will the bond race pod line positions be tradable in the marketplace at unpause um at restart hard to say um again the goal is to keep things as technically simple as possible but in the grand scheme of things no reason why that wouldn't be possible just don't know as to you know when it will be possible got it um i i would having that having an option to make that liquid is definitely attractive um so you know my sort of point of view on that is [Music] we should make that a priority i mean uh apoc eriel made a great point somewhere that a pod in the new pod line or in the old pod line at the same place in line is the safe so the only complexity is now that in theory you have two cloud lines that could be sold into the same order so there is some complexity there but in short don't think it's too hard and agree it would be high value right i was thinking about that earlier today too and we had a little discussion about it and yeah exactly exactly the same value it's interesting you got for us did we lose jelly bean forever oh let's see i'll i'll invite her okay jelly bean jelly bean jelly bean i'm inviting you back up jelly bean [Music] okay jelly bean okay i'm back but i don't know if i can i don't know if anything's fake go ahead and speak someone tell her to talk yeah we can hear you jellybeans okay um all right i guess i i can i can go um so uh hey guys i i uh apologize for earlier i was listening if i was in an environment where i could speak um and anyway hi rose thank you for all of your thoughtful questions um earlier um so if i remember the question earlier correctly was it around whether the ui will uh clearly show to users how much of a haircut they would take if they decide to withdraw before it's fully invested is that right or what's that yeah that was the question question was whether it's just gonna be like a simple message like you're not you know if you would draw your or you were drawing without fully being vested you are losing you are leaving money on the table and perhaps a calculator in there how much money somebody's leaving on the table at any given time to assess whether it's time to take the exit or not yeah yeah yes absolutely um i think that as well as any other information that we would need to surface with the updates that we'd make for sure we would want to make that very clear and i think your uh perspective on um what would be helpful uh what features would be helpful like a calculator or something else i think that would be really good feedback to write down um i think around the product design process as a whole um you know before that the whole exploit happened i think um the product design team was already very actively engaged around uh rethinking the experience on the site holistically because we are very aware that we absolutely need to improve the user experience in many ways um but i think as far as my priorities regarding redesign uh but i i think also for the others on the product team improvements around information design you know making sure people understand what they're doing and more clarity is probably the highest priority as far as what we want to improve on so um i mean at least that's absolutely the goal and we of course we need to do you know usability testing to make sure that information that we display is actually understandable but um yeah hopefully that helps and um happy to go into more detail later too that definitely helps i am i i'm picturing something like tulip or frankium where before you get into a strategy i'm not sure if you're familiar with those two but they're pretty easy to go hop on solana network and check them out but when you before the user enters a strat or a strategy or a vault or whatever you want to call it um they have a little calculator with the ui that you can use a slider for like if you wanted to exit now versus in 30 days versus in 90 days a rough ballpark of what a person would be leaving on the table versus you know what they will be how much additional they'll be taking with them um i know it's a really big ask but if you are up for a challenge you guys are already working on something like that and if it's something that's doable that would be really incredible and that could then be ported over to after the bar and raises done right for the turning back on of the beanstalk when people are entering beanstalk and then providing them a calculator for how the silo works and how the soil works and all of that some sort of a visual calculator or an or an illustration of you know what does it mean to stay in the silo for longer and why does it why is it better for you to enter silo sooner than later right and then calculate our visual representation would really help people yeah absolutely i would love to uh for us to think through that um more for sure um some kind of calculator slider simulator some kind of thing to help users understand what's happening um with their money i think that would be really helpful especially for this space where things aren't as clear like what's happening um for sure thank you i mean i think that was my only that's why you were brought on i think uh that was my a smaller question that is now morphed into something much bigger of a conversation like my simple question was are people going to actually be able to given a calculator and see how much money they would be leaving on the table which will actually incentivize people to not leave early which is actually overall better for everybody uh whether from many perspectives is to people to wait to be fully vested right and oftentimes information is what's needed and the numbers are what's needed for people to make the informed decision and not just a simple warning that you're leaving some money on the table and not tell them how much and then if they're left in 30 more days how much will that be so something around along those lines this uh like so not sure if there's enough time for all of that to take place but i'm sure you can make magic happen i will we'll definitely try it um but one of the things i would comment on is uh one thing that we we collectively have been struggling to figure out is the best way to present future expected bean mints if that makes sense and the only thing that you're asking about rose which is unclear is if you want 30 days in the future well because the uh the the vesting schedule is under the current plan it's a function of the amount of the new pod line that has been paid off it's really a question of what the b in supply is at a given time so instead i think the way to make the calculator instead of time or then there's an estimate that needs to be made on the calculators part instead maybe a calculator at a given bean supply what um what what the what the forfeiture would be if that makes sense that may be more that's correct that that would make more sense for sure since that's where we have pivoted now yes 100 percent agree yeah and oh go ahead you can hear me now yeah i can hear you now yes okay i'll let you get back to rose sorry oh okay um no i was just going to ask you rose oh would you be um interested in and you know other people are like other people you can also um answer this as well um like so rose if you'd be interested in um talking more with us uh the product design team because i i would love to um hear more about what you're kind of envisioning um maybe yeah kind of creation yeah session or something yeah that'd be that'd be awesome yeah i'd be happy to i'll be happy to have a session and we could do it on on on here on video um and i could uh show you a couple examples of a whole bunch of protocols that are doing it and it's and i mean it's not in the way that i'm visualizing in the way that i don't know if you remember the ohm forks that did that like they had these calculators and the number of ferraris and whatnot which was ridiculous not referring to anything like that um something that that requires a calculator to pull some data from the calculator and you know uh from from the from the database uh from the protocol and being able to run simple calculations and give people a rough estimate of you know kind of like what they're looking at in the future right instead of exiting now i'm sure this could uh this sounds great so rose and jelly um go ahead and get connected and if you guys need to connect i'm already friends with eros and i know we're chatting offline too so really appreciate that um i have been neglecting the classroom chat here and people are so let me get a couple questions from here um okay we have um from aj uh what's gonna happen to the pod marketplace is it getting completely reset and all listings removed do we have to cancel our contracts the short answer is uh unclear at the moment uh i'm gonna guess that you're gonna have to go ahead go ahead publish yeah so all of the existing listings and orders still exist in the contract itself so we don't have to reset the pod marketplace however you know the decision should be made you know as a doubt whether they think it's we think it's better to kind of just reset the pod marketplace and start from scratch or do we want to just resume the pod marketplace with business as it was and aj's second question is a little longer um he's well he's actually really responding to errands i mean i'm going to leave that um sorry dumpling i didn't mean to interrupt i was wondering if uh i if i was forgotten uh no sorry i was just trying to get back to a couple of people over here and then then we'll take you is that okay yeah of course okay from uh warthog we have does publius recognize the importance of cvx so convex and that whole ecosystem is so cool and exciting and it's kind of a shame that beanstalk was just starting to foray into their ecosystem when this happens so in short um i think it's very cool think it's incredibly important in the current landscape of d5 in the short term i think it's important for beanstalk to prioritize beanstalk native incentive structures given what's just happened but in the grand scheme of things think that uh convex uh boosted curve rewards via convex in the silo is gonna be a game changer for d5 so yes i recognize how important it is and i would say we all do you know publish we all do we talk about it all the time okay john thanks for your patience yeah absolutely uh thanks so much all i'm not really sure if this was asked um i i read a little bit on the post and and i think i understand but one of the questions i had was the the what we've already had in the silo assuming we're not depositing will that continue accruing interest uh i don't know if that was answered or if that was intentionally left off yes so in short you have stock and then you either have beans that are deposited under that stock or you have lp tokens that are under that right in short there will be some haircut from 100 to zero percent on all of that pro rat so if it's 50 percent you'll have half of the stock that you had half of the beans you had half of the lp tokens you had half of the seeds you have had um however as soon as the system restarts everything will be normal in the sense that uh when b new beans are minted your stock will yield being senior rich instead of half of the senior it's going to stockholders it'll be a third until the new pod line is paid off the barn raised pod line is paid off but in short um you know you will continue to earn senior rich okay yeah that's great that that was just my one question um and i don't know if i missed it in the reading but i definitely recommend adding that information there because i'm sure it'll help people uh in deciding whether they want to you know take the haircut or you know potentially realize that they're missing out on more money than they thought of yes that's a great point and i'm sure i mean i know for a fact the people that wrote the poster in this chat so i'm i'm sure they'll they'll reflect that okay um great this is awesome uh thank you very much for your comments john appreciate very much when people tell us that they don't understand stuff or whatever like that's great feedback in fact this is just a side note my brother texted me today saying he didn't understand the post and i'm like oh my goodness i don't know what that means so uh agree uh we can always do a better job collectively as being clearer but um you know appreciate appreciate it tremendously and uh we gotta get it we gotta get you a bfp dog yeah as much as we love monsters inc you know yeah uh out maybe i'll make it my nft uh fun stuff fun stuff um we just want one other quick question um i know there's been a lot of discussion around the calculator like that um i i know rose had really great insight but if somebody wanted to volunteer and get involved with the protocol who should they be reaching out to well it depends what your skill set is uh but there's a ton of different people to reach out to dumpling would probably be the point person okay who handles like incor incoming talent inquiries but uh yeah come one come on okay well i appreciate your time thanks all thanks john and we already have a we already have a dm going so yeah okay all right esper hey um so my my question is around so i actually didn't really know about beanstalk very much um i was really into olympus i was into the forks and that's that was kind of like my big scoop in the game theory and beanstalk is very very interesting uh but you know the exploit pretty much brought it to life for me to actually like dig into the white paper my question is around um it's funny how that works huh [Music] so funny but my question is around uh not having any collateral in the protocol and relying solely on credit obviously that's a decision that was purposely made and i think you know given the benefits or let's say uh the success of fracks so far as a fractionalized algorithmic stablecoin like what what are your thoughts on having some degree of collateral as a sort of tool to keep and to protect the credit worthiness of beanstalk so there's a couple things here the first thing is the big benefits that you get the main benefits that you get uh in terms of having a positive carry stablecoin are a function of the fact that there's no collateral because any time you have collateral there's opportunity cost associated with locking up that collateral so agree that frax has been successful with its model but in the grand scheme of things with the goal to be to create the lowest cost table coin de facto if you have collateral you're not the lowest cost that you can be and furthermore and this is theoretical i think that it makes sense for everyone to lean into the credit model more to have beanstalk lean into as much as possible its credit history and not hide behind the guise of any collateral or a treasury or an insurance policy or something like that whereby as soon as uh people can drain the treasury or drain the excess reserves or whatever the structure of the market is changed substantively it's much better from preventing a run on the bank or a loss in confidence in the model perspective to always have the only thing be the center of attention be the credit of the system so it's both the economics in the short term uh like in terms of borrowing costs or carrying costs and then from a macro behavioral perspective really think it makes sense for the protocol to just lean a hundred percent into the credit instead of hiding behind some uh you know the idea of collateral that's not really actually helpful [Music] right that that makes sense so on the positive carry point is like how do we know that the cost of the cost on our credit worthiness when there are times of distrust or like below peg let's say and we have to raise the weather how do we know that that cost because we have to pay a higher rate of interest isn't outweighing the opportunity cost of the collateral [Music] that's a great question i i would make the argument that uh implicitly the thing to realize is not at any given moment right at the moment where beanstalk needs to attract lenders and it cannot it would be much better to have some sort of reserve to plug that gap in at the margin 100 but at the macro level what you lose is the ability to scale whereby in effect let's the goal for beanstalk is to be able to issue trillions of beans um if you're going to have some collateral that collateral in theory would need to scale with the size of the bean supply and in short i think it's really hard to to scale anything like this of the sort uh with collateral you know at some point you run into the the problem that there's simply not enough collateral and particularly given that the goal is to be truly decentralized you're limited to on-chain decentralized collateral and that's very very limited if you know what i mean in the grand scheme of things so uh it's gonna be expensive as [ __ ] right makes sense thank you for sure man welcome [Music] okay well we're starting to we're starting to run out of questions guys um we can't always can't always go down three hours no i have nothing else to do i promise you i have nothing else to do at the moment so uh this there's well maybe a better way to say this there's nothing i'd rather be doing than chatting with all of you about all this stuff the amount of good ideas that have come forward from all these discussions that have been incorporated it's like you know it's kind of nuts it's it's uh it's it's been very cool to be a part of this process over the past four or five days or so cool beans is is getting technical and is saying one can argue that the lps are collateral albeit for five hours only because of the it's not collateral there's nothing backing up the coins it's liquidity just because there's liquidity it doesn't mean that uh it's collateral jones mike jones who mike jones hey guys can you hear me again hey i got a question this is a much more longer term kind of not immediate priority given kind of the state that we're at um but kind of one kind of more long-term question i have is has there been any discussion in how to i guess better modulate the weather in the long run i guess kind of my my understanding of right now how it works is you know every hour kind of decreases by three percent but in a way i think kind of that three percent is too small and i don't even know how to you would how you'd formulate because it's too much sometimes it's too small right if the weather was one percent exactly right that raised is way too big but at 10 000 a three percent raise does nothing but on the other hand if you start raising it as a percent and you're a 10 000 well now that fifo incentive isn't nearly as meaningful if a three percent increase on 10 000 you're now going to tell me that you're going to increase the weather by 300 every hour like that's you see what i'm saying it's really hard to know what's ideal so at a micro level i would agree there's lots of inefficiencies in the weather a lot of inefficiencies in the weather but at a macro level if you just look at the price chart over time and the weather over time in the grand scheme of things bean stock and the weather changes have been incredibly efficient um so agree that at a micro level you can look and say this is far from ideal but over the next two or three months that's not gonna be where i think it makes sense to spend attention but in general this is something i mean we've spent so much time talking with mr mochi and with mod uh so many people who have different ideas on how to improve the weather and uh you know think that it can be improved tremendously but uh you know not at least uh from my perspective that's not gonna be a priority over the next two to three months given that the weather is more than more than good enough for the time being yeah for sure i appreciate that and i agree it's not an immediate priority of those other things and um megan i will say i'm a i'm a big bean believer i've been in it for a while now and in a pretty meaningful way and excited about all the progress that we've made and kind of the you know the work that you and the community have done and you know i'm excited to participate in the fundraise and excited to get this going again thanks hell yeah brother much [Music] appreciated it's mike oh can you guys walking or we can hear you uh can you guys hear me so we can hear you oh okay um so uh this is probably uh not a question that uh is of much concern but just curious so uh by my understanding the for the uh bond raise part line um and the whole vesting mechanism uh the reason for having the testing mechanism is for people to stay in essentially and then not you know not immediately get out and uh and dump everything which is understandable considering the situation with me in price right now though uh i wonder if it will create uh i guess like artificial excessive demand if you uh if you can get what i need so uh which will yes it definitely will it definitely will no i would argue not excess demand but a shortage of supply right um and in the grand scheme of things i don't think there's anything wrong with that given the current structure of beanstalk basically yeah and uh just to get an understanding of uh where you're coming from with this um i'm guessing that you're confident that the mechanism of being stopped will eventually just regulate it that's not even that it's like the short the where the cell pressure is no longer going to come from for the short term is the silo but there's actually an increase in cell pressure coming from the pod line because now pods are receiving two-thirds of bean mix so there is some aspect whether it's being offset and you know that's that and furthermore it's not like we were seeing a lot of withdrawals from the silo if you know what i mean so yeah i i hard to say apples to apples but um in the grand scheme of things the bigger point is if beanstalk grows a little bit more aggressively than it was before uh because of this distribution of bee mints i don't think that's a problem okay yeah uh yeah that's all the question that i have just want to get yeah a sense thanks man you made me a little hungry with that pfp but uh otherwise thank you for coming up here yeah i'm a chicken and chicken guy so unfortunately not not so much into eating beans uh it's lacking okay we have a question um will i be able to see how many beans i had at the pre-exploit snapshot will they be able to know free and post numbers hey can you hear me now yes yeah yeah yeah thanks uh i'm very appreciative what the bing teams have been down now i have questions that i read the announcement you said before you will contact the fbi to recovering the fund i just want to know what's checked the schedule or condition what what's a feedback do you really did that oh yeah we did we filed a report we've spoken with the fbi multiple times and uh you know in short we're trying to you know we're trying to help them in any way we can to figure out who did this okay uh [Music] i i just discussed with my chinese friend they just will think this project in the long term what if happened if the icc or fbi know your identities they will if the project were going very well in the future they will contact you and give you some warning if do you have this concern so uh agree that the fact that we're no longer anonymous uh changes something substantively but uh in the grand scheme of things the main reason we were anonymous was because we really feel like beanstalk should not have a head or a leader and the goal was and is for at some point published to disappear but in terms of having done anything wrong or illegal uh have no concern about that uh one of the reasons we wanted to uh raise our hands and dox ourselves was to uh have the whole community realize that you know we had nothing to do with the attack and that we are you know honest people and are sticking by beanstalk and the community and uh you know in the grand scheme of things there's very clearly a lot of additional eyes looking at beanstalk and us as a result uh and not all scrutiny is good um but the beauty of having a decentralized protocol is that uh i'm not in charge of anything and as i'm sure you know owen all of this has just been us talking about what might be a good idea to do and ultimately it's up for the dow to vote on what makes sense going forward and uh this is all really just part of a larger discussion as to how we should move forward collectively so i'm not worried about that uh because i don't have the ability to affect beanstalk uh individually and neither does publius uh as a whole uh particularly uh you know when the when the new governance structure is set up where there's a community run multisig uh the system is decentralized and uh there's something to be said for that yeah thanks your very ambition uh person for the future uh final question um what what got improved in uh the enchant garment in this protocol or in the bin what what what we can learn from this uh lesson yeah so for now i think it make and i think everyone's an agreement that on-chain governance needs to be put on hold for the time being and even vitalik was participating in the discussion on twitter saying that token-based governance is not a good idea so uh long story short i think we as a whole need to go back to the drawing board and figure out a longer term solution for decentralized governance um censorship resistant governance uh but uh for the time being i think uh you know on-chain governance is not not a good idea [Music] great awesome thanks broth seven okay uh tim i can't hear you yet tan oh uh publius the question i was asking before um when will people be able to see how many beans they had uh pre-exploit uh not sure not sure [Music] will that be or not maybe not exactly when but when the new um you know when it's relaunched will you be able i guess will you be able to back into that calculation or is that um i think the person is is thinking specifically uh for sort of taxes or you know a calculation with regards to that oh i would have no idea on the tax front but um with regards to having the information be uh available i would think that and again not jelly you don't need to come back up here but i'm sure jelly's taking notes as to what the community wants to see on the new website as well okay from the prof we'd be able to know the bids in the system during the bidding period assuming it will tell you of course of course uh having the ability to see other people's bids is one of the main things that will create the game theory here or the game mechanic here okay oh um what if the fbi does somehow recover anything has the team discussed what you would do with the recovered funds uh the short answer is i have not been a part of any of those discussions uh you know