Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #4
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Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #4

Date
January 11, 2022
Timestamps
0:00 Intro • 1:15 Publius Opening Remarks • 8:15 Plans for Q1 2022 • 19:15 How Will Stalk Trade Against Beans? • 25:15 Could you Lock LP for multiple years for more Stalk/Seeds? • 29:50 Tradeoffs of Cross-Chain vs Multi-chain and Decentralization • 37:00 Can We Adjust the Weather Mechanism? • 52:40 How would you convince someone new to the protocol to join? • 1:00:00 How to reach 1 Billion Beans? • 1:03:30 How can the Community Help? • 1:08:00 Can the Protocol Arbitrage Liquidity Pools to Maintain the Peg? • 1:15:00 Why Beanstalk Isn't a Ponzi Scheme? • 1:27:00 How Will Beanstalk Pay Off Its Debt?? • 1:30:00 Who is Publius • 1:33:00 Publius Closing Remarks
Type
Ask Me Anything

Recordings

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Guess the Beans competition—ereal won! There were 869 beans and the closest guess was ereal at 850!
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AMA Questions

How is Beanstalk Farms funded at present? And how will Beanstalk Farms be funded in its decentralized future?

  • Beanstalk Farms was recently funded for Q1 2022 by BIP-8, where the Silo voted to mint 2mm beans and allocated 60% to Beanstalk Farms and 40% to Beansprout. So Beanstalk Farms has $1.2mm beans to operate through the end of the quarter.
  • For long term funding, the hope is that maintenance costs for the protocol over time will decrease as Beanstalk hits its stride and gets to a point in the future where it can be self-sustaining just based off of user activity with the Beanstalk Protocol

What are the key big things Beanstalk is looking to do in Q1 2022?

  • It’s a little difficult to project how much we will get done in Q1 specifically, but here is what the next couple weeks or months may look like:
    • The model is continually being refined and tweaked to improve efficiency (i.e. things like BIP-9), but going forward the changes will decrease
    • Instead, the focus will be building out a larger ecosystem around Beanstalk and creating liquidity for Beanstalk assets like Stalk and Seed and Pods, and improving liquidity for Beans
    • This week, Beanstalk deployed a Bean:3CRV pool on Curve. Beanstalk hopes to incorporate this pool into the silo and minting schedule, and have the pool listed on Curve (with the hopes of opening up Beanstalk to a wider audience). High level wants to fully integrate Curve into Beanstalk
    • Also want to add convert functionality so you can convert between Uniswap and Curve pool efficiently via the Silo
    • By End of January, aim is that V1 of Pod marketplace can be proposed as a BIP. This is very exciting because it should create a lot of utility for pods (thus increasing demand for soil and for beans).
      • Bids will be denominated in beans, so you will need to own beans to participate in the marketplace. This will drive demand for beans
    • By End of February, deploy a Balancer Bean/Stalk/Seed pool, and allow the LP token for that pool to also be integrated into the Silo
      • This could cause many assets in the Silo to move over to the Balancer pool, and would increase the utility of the assets currently in the Silo
    • At a high level, working on Beanstalk getting more integrated with the larger ETH Defi ecosystem
    • In the next 2 months, Omniscia audit should be completed (may take longer as Beanstalk code is being updated a lot)
  • More ambitious goals for Q1 (more likely will happen in Q2):
    • Beanstalk deployments on various other blockchains in addition to Ethereum (e.g. CelerNetwork as a cross-chain messaging platform; team is also talking to AVAX and will talk to Solana in the near future)

What are some of the concerns around how Seed and Stalk would trade? e.g. What if the relative price of Stalk to Beans becomes very high to the point where it becomes hard for Siloers to withdraw beans because stalk value is too high to burn

  • If price of Stalk is too low (e.g. 1 bean is worth 10 stalk), this could lead to no one wanting to Silo as they would only get 2 stalk from silo’ing, but 10 stalk on the market
  • If price of Stalk is too high (e.g. 10 beans is worth 1 stalk), this could lead to inflows into the Silo as that’s a mechanism to get stalk more cheaply
  • In theory the arb opportunity should bring these prices back some equilibrium
  • But Publius doesn’t expect this to be too big of an issue
  • Follow up question: Is there any reason why the ratio of stalk:seed awarded upon entry into the silo shouldn’t be variable for bean deposit vs. LP depending on market conditions?
    • Yes, this ratio could be determined by a formula that depends on market conditions, but this would need to be approved by Stalkholders

Cross-Chain (like a single Pod Line across chains) vs Multi-Chain (distinct Beanstalk Deployments)

  • In Cross-chain case: you would need to start on the ethereum chain to get into the Beanstalk ecosystem, and only after that can you bridge to other chains
  • In Multi-Chain case: deploying on multiple chains allows anyone to Sow or Silo directly through any of those chains. This has the added benefit of anyone, regardless of what chain they are on, so long as Beanstalk is deployed on that chain, of being able to access the risk free interest rate that the Silo provides
  • The ideal implementation is Multi-Chain. Because of characteristics inherent in Beanstalk, Beanstalk is very easily deployed on Ethereum or AVAX (though it is more difficult to deploy on Solana, but we can get there with some more development work)

Does it make sense for weather changes to move as a % of the current weather (versus an absolute amount, which right now is up to 3% per season)?

  • The weather changes are first and foremost done to ensure an efficient soil market.
  • Weather moving as a % of the current weather would make weather movements be larger — this could incentivize potential sowers to want to wait given that the weather would be moving up so fast. This would also cause the pod line to grow faster
    • Having the weather move linearly as it does today protects against this
  • Also, if weather was, for example, at 1%, then moving weather as a % of current weather would mean weather would change much too slowly
  • Something that could potentially be explored is whether weather should jump if bean is below peg for many consecutive seasons to incentivize sowing and getting back to peg

Does it make sense for weather to decrease as we get closer to get peg, and to increase as we get further away from peg?

  • Price deviation from peg is probably a less significant factor that consecutive seasons below or above peg
    • However, Beanstalk is hesitant to add consecutive seasons below or above peg as this may cause weather to move too aggressively and could incentivize more price manipulation

Is there a way to simulate the protocol if people want to play around with the model?

  • Beanstalk Farms is trying to develop a suite of best in class analytics tools, but at the moment this doesn’t exist, though there are community members working on analytics (e.g. BernoulliBean)
  • You can deploy a local blockchain node and test through this — if you are interested in this, DM Publius for a guide
  • Beanstalk is also deployed on Ropsten if you want to play around with it

If Publius had to sell Beanstalk to a new person, and they are looking at a very long pod line and a Silo with a very low listed APY, how would Publius convince them?

  • As compared to ESD or DSD or Basis Cash or any previous attempt at an algorithmic, non-collateralized stablecoin, NONE of them have lived as long as Beanstalk has
  • Even with ETH experiencing a large dip, Beans is still hovering >0.9
  • If you zoom out and look at the all time bean price chart, you can see a lot more stability and decreasing volatility
  • Bean:3CRV pool will result in even less volatility around $1
  • Highlight the opportunity: Currently the supply is only ~42mm beans. But on the podline there are almost 600mm pods. So as Beanstalk starts to pay off its debt and the debt level starts to come down, Publius’ expectation is that between all the growth around Beanstalk and the development happening at Beanstalk Farms, there will be a significant deleveraging and grow to the size of other stablecoin implementations like FRAX and FEI and UST. Once that happens, Beanstalk will demonstrate its ability to “hang with the big boys”
  • The community is so strong and the quality of the individuals working on Beanstalk (many have quit their jobs to do so) is an extremely bullish indicator

What does Beanstalk need help with right now?

  • If you have interest in working for the DAO, you can look at the sidebar and hit apply on the application
  • Right now, needs are:
    • Technical writers who can write docs
    • Marketing leads
    • Connections to any press or podcasts (slide into ipoandchill’s DMs if you have any connections)
      • Intros to podcasts will be rewarded with a bounty
    • Biz Dev (working with Max Sow)
    • Working with Farmer Dan on Layer 3 bounties
    • Beansprout is happy to take grant applications for any projects

“Has there been any discussion of beanstalk attempting to auto-arb its own pools now that there are multiple? they'll inevitably be arbed by bots at some point and it seems the protocol trying to arb them and distributing those profits to the silo or otherwise using them to improve the protocol is preferable to some rando doing it.”

  • Philosophically Beanstalk doesn’t really work with something like that. Some other protocols use PCV (Protocol Controlled Value) or POL (Protocol Owned Liquidity) to maintain peg
  • Beanstalk believes that once you introduce some Beanstalk-initiated arbitrage or any type of induced maintenance, you open Beanstalk up to more opportunities for market manipulation
  • It is much more pure and reliable to rely purely on users and incentives to stabilize price

Why is Beanstalk not a Ponzi scheme?

  • A Ponzi scheme is where you are taking money from one group of individuals and giving it to another group of individuals
  • Beanstalk is not giving your money to someone else because it is not moving money around; rather it has an ability to mint new money and can incentivize new demand
  • At the end of the day, it is important that Beanstalk has real utility.

What will catalyze Beanstalk to kick off that larger deleveraging?

Remember to vote on Snapshot: https://snapshot.org/#/beanstalkfarms.eth

Transcript

all right we have everyone for the grand double length ama not sure we'll go the entire time but we'll see how many questions there are i wanted to kick things off real quick with the announcement of the bean count uh the guess the beans giveaway okay let's see if the winner is here no but that was not a requirement all right so the the count of the beans was 869 and i did it myself and a half bean counted as a half bean there were two half beans and the closest one was ebreal at 850. so congratulations uh and second second honorable mention was uh we have snaked at 8 43 we have bean counter at 903 so that is that um well we're already 7 31 here so uh without much further ado we can hand it over to publius um we do have the meetings on thursday for the dao there's a lot of new snapshot snapshots up for vote so head over to snapshot there should be an announcement in the announcement channel for that and other than that uh bliss uh go ahead thanks dumpling so we're gonna run this how we typically run the amas which is you know a little bit more long form and very much open-ended and so anything that is on people's mind or they're curious about or concerned about or would like more information about for whatever reason you know feel free to come up here and ask your questions you can raise your hand and we'll bring you up here and i think dumpling maybe ipo and chill will help moderate and we're happy to answer you know whatever's on your mind ipo i i can't bring you up on stage but you can just come up on stage so just try to come up i think we've just given auto permission to come up on stage i'm sure you'll come up pretty soon ipo i'm sorry ipo i think i think you have to take your hand down and then you can rejoin uh so i think you have to cancel your requests i'm going to look into the settings for this because it seems to be a recurring thing you should probably either make it hands or or no hands um okay so you can either make post your questions in the ama questions which we already uh looks like we have a couple um so we'll start there and then you can also raise your hand and people can feel free to come up on stage okay so from poisson's we have how is beanstalk farms funded at present and how will beanstalk farms be funded in its decentralized future beanstalk farms was recently uh funded for the first quarter of 2022 uh by bip8 which uh the silo voted to mint additional beans uh in total 2 million beans and allocate 60 of them to beanstalk farms and uh the remaining 40 to bean sprout and so beanstalk farms has a 1.2 million beans to operate through the end of the quarter and that was funded by the silo in terms of long-term funding uh in general the hope is that you know maintenance for beanstalk uh and like the protocol itself will decrease over time uh right now there's a lot of growth necessary in terms of development of the protocol and a lot of different things around the protocol whereas perhaps in a little bit of a longer term time horizon there will be a larger ecosystem around beanstalk that doesn't necessarily need to be entirely funded by the silo so our expectation is that that amount of funding on a quarterly basis probably won't increase uh too much uh beyond what it currently is um at least for the time being at beanstalk's current size and with regards to maintaining uh that in a decentralized fashion the hope is to continue to further improve the decentralization of uh the teams working on beanstalk and so the one of the benefits of the structure of the bip8 funding is that beanstalk farms and beef sprout are funded somewhat independently and so there is now uh two separate even though they're obviously coordinating two separate independent operations working on making beanstalk the ubiquitous stablecoin of d5 so in general that's pretty exciting the where the protocol has come over the past five months and our expectation is that uh from a development perspective the team that is supporting beanstalk will continue to be you know increasing in its decentralization over time but that doesn't necessarily mean that the silo will not continue to have funding and grants for various things that benefit beanstalk but um thanks for bringing me up thank you uh i mean let's let's keep it going i guess the only thing i just wanted to say um i'm looking in the audience looks like there are a couple of new folks you know welcome to the first 2022 beanstalk ama in in lieu of class you know most of the class sessions to operate like amas anyway but like publius and dumplings said you know this is a bit longer form no question is out of bounds so obviously if you have questions you can put them in the ama questions channel as some of you already have or you know as we get through the conversation feel free to raise your hand and could bring up on stage this is being recorded as you'll see if you're looking at the users so in the event you do have to drop off a little bit later or or even now you can listen to it at a later time via spotify or the other channels along with the other amas and you know if you're new to beanstalk the amas really are the best opportunity not just ask questions but even to just listen and and learn if you don't know enough to ask anything at all you know i i tend to learn something new every single time i join one of these so i'm super excited to be here and obviously if uh you know not not to have to say this but i think i think we're all adults here uh although you can't tell from the profile pictures but you know obviously uh this is a forum for us to just learn and uh you know basically build the community so any kind of disruptive behavior obviously won't be tolerated but we've never had a problem with that and we continue to have problems with that so that's all good but um i guess before we get into some of these questions you know we obviously got into one um i think it'd be a good idea publicly it's just to level set you know in terms of we're in 2022 there's a ton of stuff going on you know what what are the the key big things that we're looking to do in this quarter thank you ipo and chill it's nice to have you up here we have you know on the one hand when it comes to timing things out specifically uh it's a little bit difficult to project how much we'll be able to get done in q1 specifically um so to lay out what the next couple of weeks and months look like and that may uh extend into longer than that um the the model has continued to be refined over the past couple of weeks through things like dip nine and while there are some more you know more and more minor tweaks if you will to the the model we can make to improve its efficiency uh in general the beanstalk changes itself are going to decrease in in scope going forward uh instead uh the focus is now on building out a larger ecosystem around beanstalk which consists of liquidity around a variety of beanstalk's assets so pods stock and seeds and continuously improving liquidity for beans as well so this week uh in stock farms deployed a bean three curve pool on curve which currently still doesn't have uh a lot of liquidity particularly uh but that's mainly because there are no incentives in any capacity for adding liquidity and over the next month one of the things that we hope to accomplish is to incorporate the bean 3 curve pool into the silo and into the minting schedule for beanstalk so have the three curve pool fully integrated into beanstalk and then also to make a proposal to have the b3 curve pool listed on curve which will hopefully also open up beanstalk to a wider audience that may not immediately be interested in being stock native interest at the start so over the month of january and it may leak into february we hope to integrate curve into beanstalk now beyond that uh the hope is to add convert functionality so that you can convert between the curve pool and the unison pool uh efficiently uh within the silo but that might take a little bit more development time because it is a little bit more complex but in general one of the things that is on a radar is to fully integrate curve and the curve pool into beanstalk now uh another thing that's on the radar for january is the pod marketplace so the hope is that before the end of the month uh the v1 for the pod marketplace can be proposed as a bip and the pod marketplace is very exciting because it should both introduce a lot of or create a lot of utility for pods which can have a generally positive effect on the demand for soil in general but also is likely to create some demand for beans because of the structure of the market so uh one of the things that goes into the analysis of how to build things out is to ensure that uh or at least to optimize around having it have a net a positive effect on demand for beans and so in the case of the pod marketplace uh bids will be in denominated in beans and accordingly even to place a bid that requires you to own beans so that if someone has a plot and sells it into your bid uh you know there's no additional action necessary from the bidder they need to deposit the beans or stake the beans into the pod marketplace and so uh that's an example of in the over the next couple weeks another uh not change but uh uh another step in the right direction for beanstalk to build out its its its ecosystem now beyond pod liquidity through the pot stock and seeds uh should become fungible in the not-too-distant future so now we probably get into february uh maybe even march but the hope is to have our intention is to deploy a balancer bean stock and seed pool and to allow similar to the curve integration to allow the lp tokens for the for the balancer pool to be deposited in the silo as well and receive additional stock and seeds now in order to prevent excess stock and seed inflation you probably won't receive as many stock and seeds per bean denominated value deposited um we're still figuring out the finer details of those rates uh and the best way to set that uh from a theoretical perspective at least um but in general the hope is that by the end of the quarter there will be real liquidity on pods stock and seeds and the nature of the stock and seed balancer pool deployment where you need beans stock and seeds will likely result in a lot of the beans that are currently in the silo moving over to the balancer pool so our expectation is that the assets within the silo are gonna have increased utility in the near future uh through the stock and seed pool so those are over the next couple of months uh the beanstalk native uh pieces of development that we're focused on now as the ecosystem continues to grow the hope is that there are other protocols that are either independently or through coordination with being stock farms or being sprout starting to work on beanstalk and utilize beans or various assets within the ecosystem and so in addition to just beanstalk farms doing its its job of continuing to work on the development of the protocol uh the hope is that their beanstalk starts to be integrated within the larger ethereum defy ecosystem uh at some point over the next two months we do hope to have uh the initial audit from omnisha completed now there is gonna be a little bit of complexity because we are continuing to push out uh so much uh so many bits in short fashion that uh even as they start to review one version of the code uh things continue to change uh like the addition of the pod marketplace through a bip uh and so there may need to be uh an extension of the omnisha audit beyond it's just initial stage to get to a place where the latest version of the code is up to date um but in general we're excited that they've started the audit and are you know working on auditing beanstalk so that's exciting and beyond that would probably be you know the extent of the goals that we're willing to commit to for q1 um to be perhaps a little bit more ambitious and if it's unlikely to happen within q1 although um there's a lot of positive things happening around beanstalk that it's possible but it's more likely to be in q2 where beanstalk starts to have uh beanstalk deployments on various uh other blockchains in addition to ethereum and so we've been doing a lot of research on various uh cross-chain uh bridging uh and more importantly messaging uh solutions such that the various beanstalk contracts that are on the different blockchains we'll be able to communicate back and forth and we're highly encouraged by seller network we found them to be very much ahead of the curve and we think that within the not too distant future that will enable uh a more generalized cross-chain in stock infrastructure or implementation and our hope in the spirit of really maximizing the extent of the decentralization here is to actually find at least one other high quality uh cross chain messaging platform to also facilitate uh you know sort of like a double check or even a triple check if we can find more than one such that there's there's very little risk um that any single actor or set of actors can have an adverse effect on the entire beanstalk ecosystem so uh that might that might be more like what what q2 goals look like um but we are talking to avax and um you know hoping to to get the conversation started with solana uh in the near future as well so there's a lot of you know and that's in addition to ethel twos so there's a lot of very exciting larger long-term developments that beanstalk farms is actively working on but for q1 uh you know we're focused on getting liquidity to all of the beanstalk native assets and uh you know helping uh facilitate integrations uh across ethereum main those would be the main priorities at the moment wow thank you yeah that was a lot um you know for those listening just to recap you know we or even to step back a little bit heading into 2022 we had a pretty major development we had the price effectively the the price stability development that passed where folks can convert either uh eath into beans or beans into each depending on the price of bean and that's reflected in the price of bean as you can see even as the broader market continues to bleed and then the things you mentioned were you know many of those things are top of mind for folks looking at the questions but the curve pool the pod marketplace we still have the nft uh nfps part two going so if you haven't grabbed your nft feel free to go do that and you know that's also resulted in the amisha audit being funded which you touched on so certainly a lot going on and to your point a very very it shouldn't really be considered ambitious but uh very active i should say q1 heading q2 a couple things to talk about you mentioned seed and stock fungibility and liquidity uh the community continues to be very very excited for this what are some of the concerns uh if if there are any of how those would trade you know for instance one that was mentioned what if in some situation the relative price of stock to beans you know becomes very very high or or become you know somewhat ridiculous to the point where it becomes hard for folks to either withdraw beans because they'll lose too much stock or they'll get an a crazy amount of stock by simply depositing bean uh given you know how it could be trading is is that something that is a concern or something we've thought about yeah it's the initial rollout of the stock and seed being balancer pool is is is a little bit more complex to do properly than the bean three curve pool roll out because of uh the unique nature of the relationship between beans stock and seeds so there is potentially problems if they're priced too high and similarly potentially problems if they're priced too low relative to a bean so uh the question that was asked i believe said well what if it's like five beans per stock uh the arbitrage opportunity to uh sell that one stock into five beans and then deposit those five beans in the silo for five stock plus additional seeds uh effectively makes that situation impossible um however in a scenario where uh one stock and two seeds which is roughly the you know what you would expect assuming that there was no additional inflation grown stock or from uh additional like you know putting stock in seeds and beans in the pool you would expect the price to be around one bean is equal to around one stock plus two seeds and if you enable uh rolling that over so now you deposit your bean you get one stock and two seeds and then you can immediately convert all of that into balancer lp and then receive additional stock and seeds if the bean denominated value of that is really high and on top of that you get a high number of stock and seeds per bean denominated value that you deposit that could result in excess stock and seed inflation which isn't the worst thing in the world because that would just result in a decrease in the price but at the same time you don't want the price to go too low which would be one of the reasons you don't want the price to be too high at the beginning to cause excess inflation because if you're able to buy you know 10 stock and 20 seeds on the open market for one bean let's call it there may not be as much of an incentive to buy a bean on the open market and deposit it in the silo as much as there is just an incentive to buy stock and seeds and so the [Music] obviously if the balance or pool is being stocked in seeds you still need to acquire beans to buy stocking seeds but there's there's an interesting interplay between how that could affect outflows of beans because if someone has deposited beans where they only got one stock and two seeds and you know maybe that's turned into two stocking two seeds and now they can take that one being withdrawn from the silo and buy 10 stock and 20 seeds that they're probably going to do that that may not cause an outflow from the ecosystem uh that may just lead to an equilibrium in the stock and seed price at some point but there is something to be said for trying to get the initial roll uh done in a way such that there's less volatility than might exist in a in a state where there is a sub-optimal rollout but in general we don't expect there to be a particularly large risk associated with the stock and seed rollout um from an economic perspective given that the pool requires in order for you to buy stock and seeds you need beans um but as we discussed there are some some risks associated with excess volatility that could be caused from this launch if stock and seeds are improperly priced and there's you know excess liquidity at a at a bad price got it and even ahead of the launch for fungibility or tradability between stock and seeds and bean and and the other coins in the ecosystem right now and or since the inception of the protocol it seems the relative there obviously is a relative difference between the amount of seeds that you get if you put beans in the silo you get two if you put beans in the lp you get four you know theoretically in you know in if folks are acting super rationally and they have a long-term view then that would theoretically incentivize you know more entry into the lp you know all else equaled is that something that we would reconsider at any point in time for instance if we were to change the relative amount of seeds that you get for either of those actions you know meaning let's say you know we were to change via bip or however it is you know now for every bean deposit into the silo you still get two seeds but into the lp you get 10. uh is that something we've considered or you would consider and if so what would the effects of that be negative or positive yes it's something that's certainly been thought of and is related to how do you reward stock and seeds for the bean stock and seed pool for example it's probably inappropriate to award the same amount for stock and seed liquidity as it is for the uh being eat pool for example so this might be a good time to discuss uh perhaps more of the generalized architecture that we are working on at beanstalk farms to build out for the silo which is that uh similar to how like a balance or vault works where once the assets are in the vault you can sort of trade them in and out to other assets and move them back and forth within the vault the hope is to turn the bean farm into a similar style vault where right now you can take your beans and you know withdraw them from the silo and claim and sow them you know within the bean farm if you will but the hope is to build out a generalized infrastructure that allows uh and supports sort of arbitrary assets so in addition to you know one of the ideas that we've discussed in the past was the ability to take your ethereum for example uh and then send that aetherium to bean stock and then have beanstalk buy and soak buy beans and sew them or buy beans and deposit them and then later on you can withdraw ethereum back plus or minus your gains or losses or leave the access to impedance and the this architecture will basically support that from a generalized perspective where you'll be able to send any assets to beanstalk um and then either buy and sell with those assets where beanstalk will take them and buy buy beans with them and sew them or deposit them um but then more generally the hope is to also support through effectively a white list that the dow will vote on uh different lp tokens and assets that are supported uh to be deposited within the silo and so but the way that that infrastructure will effectively work is uh the being denominated value of the lp tokens is the way that beanstalk will denominate things so each pool will require being denominated value formula associated with it and then the dow will need to approve and it is somewhat arbitrary the amount of stock and amount of seeds per bean denominated value deposited for each lp token and beans or potentially other assets as well and so there's a lot of flexibility there and as the ecosystem grows there is something to be said for repricing the stock and seeds per being denominated value for different assets if that makes sense got it and and i guess as we you mentioned this in your first comments about going potentially cross-chain or operating multi-chain and you know when we think about all the stuff in the future having multiple tokens in the ecosystem you know what what exactly are the trade-offs and you know i would actually love to hear this because i'm trying to wrap my head around this myself you know we've we've had a few discussions in the chat about either going cross chain and then a few discussions about beanstalk itself existing on multiple chains what exactly does that even mean uh in in either implementation and and what if any are are the trade-offs of of going one way or another whether it's cross chain or multi-chain so that it's good to be clear and this is one of the places where two things more or less mean the same thing but at the same time there are various different ways to be cross chain or multi-chain so we don't have necessarily a distinction to make between cross chain and multi-chain and generally use them interchangeably but there is a difference between having a bridge and bridging assets to another chain and deploying bean stock natively on other chains so the two different versions in practice would be the in one case you only have beanstalk the contract running on aetherium and then you can take your beans or your stock and your seeds and move them over to another chain to arm them or do whatever you want or use them on an l2 or whatever you'd like but deploying beanstalk on other chains enables you to deposit beans in beanstalk on any of the chains which beanstalk exists on or so beans in the pod line from any of the chains that beanstalk exists on or more generally if we talk about the the more general bean farm vault structure that is being developed you'll be able to take an asset that has liquidity against beans on one chain that bean stock exists on and trade that into assets on another chain that beanstalk has liquidity with on that chain assuming that there's a beanstalk deployed on both of those chains and with the exception of slippage on those exchanges there shouldn't be any additional fees associated with that and therefore being stock because it can exist and be deployed on a wide variety of different chains beanstalk does offer uh as compared to something like terra luna um native interest on a variety of different chains as opposed to needing to bridge the assets to different chains and if you think about the risk profile of being in the silo where you're already have the risk exposure of owning beans and this you know the security risk of the smart contracts and the ability for beans to maintain the peg because you own the beans the return for being in the silo does somewhat resemble a risk-free interest rate and so the ability to deploy a beanstalk contract on a wide variety of different chains means that you'll be able to access a risk-free interest rate on any of those chains that pinstock exists on which is very unique thank you that's uh that helps clear it up i'll have to do some more research on my own in i mean look in in terms of you know what what would be ideal you know how how do how do we look at this from an ideal perspective you know what what would be the best for beanstalk so when it comes to ideal one of the realities of the state of the technology of blockchains uh and technology built on cryptographic printed primitives is that they're still not great at talking to one another and so while we were highly encouraged by seller network and they have a proof-of-stake blockchain that will allow or support up to 100 hundreds of validators uh they currently only have around two dozen or when we spoke to them they had a little under two dozen but that was a little while ago and they had just launched their their new chain so things are still early from a cross-chain infrastructure perspective across the board and while beanstalk doesn't need particularly sophisticated uh cross-chain messaging it does need to be able to trust those messages and so having more than one uh different chain that can provide sort of redundant messages will will go a long way towards creating that ideal solution but the beyond that layer of complexity which will take a little bit of work to iron out and potentially find other bridges beyond seller that beanstalk can support the the ideal implementation is somewhat native to beanstalk in the sense that beanstalk is very easily deployed on an ethereum layer 2 or very easily deployed on avax and obviously not so easily deployed on solana but with with a little bit of development can also be deployed on solana so the the ideal implementation is within reach because of the native architecture of beanstalk but there is some real development work to be done to get from here to there understood yeah we've discussed this a little bit in the twitter spaces as well and just from a consumer perspective you know eth continues to be very expensive to transact on so in the event that it is available or beanstalk is available on some of the more cheaper chains like avax or maybe even a solana that might you know that might attract folks who who may be priced out um especially you know if we're going to be entering a realm where there are many different types of tradable tokens and you know each comes with some some form of a transaction cost uh last last question i i think at least unless there's more and once again if you're in the crowd feel free to either dump a question to the ama questions channel under beanstalk ant university in the discord or or this is easier just raise your hand um and we do have a hand raised actually humble farmer uh you know maybe why don't we take a little break and bring bring up humble farmer for uh for a quick queue hi guys can you hear me yep yeah thank you for uh bringing me up um i wanted to discuss um the weather i've started this conversation on the economics channel and i was wondering if we um we can talk a little bit about it here this this is more of like um like brainstorming and then you let me know like what you think of it my understanding is is right now the way that the weather changes um the direction depends on on are we above or below the peg and then how far are we from um the equilibrium that we want or like the ideal depth and then the acceleration um depends on the demand of the soil so this is like how fast we go and and and it's capped at three percent uh this is as fast as uh the weather would increase or or decrease uh i was thinking would it would it make more sense if we have um first of all whether to change as a percentage of the current weather so it's not capped at three percent it would be a percentage of what's the current weather and then have it move depending on how far are we from the peg which will implicitly uh bring in uh the demand for the soil so for example if we're close to one uh then we don't really need the weather to i don't mean that we don't even need it i don't know if this is how it will turn out to be or not but if we're close to uh to the peg then weather can go down instead of continuing to increase and if we're far away from the peg that's when the weather can can increase and and can go at a much higher rate than three percent and the rationale or the thinking behind it is you know the further we are away from the peg then we want to give a higher incentive for people to uh jump in right now and and so um and as soon as we're just moving closer to the peg it doesn't have we don't have to cl to cross peg then the weather will go down uh it will you'll still have interest rate but it doesn't have to be as high as uh as far away it was uh from the peg does this make sense and if it does tell me what do you think about it so love where your head is at and the way that you classified the mechanism is generally entirely correct now the weather changes are first and foremost designed to encourage an efficient soil market and so it's very much a behavioral economics question and you highlighted that with some of your ideas now as a starting point let's evaluate where beanstalk is right now it has a particularly high weather rate of over 4100 percent and the weather moving three percent is pretty slow now if beanstalk changed the weather as a percentage of the weather that would lead it to start to increase the weather exponentially during periods of time where there was not demand for soil which on the one hand does potentially increase the rate at which beanstalk will find the optimal weather rate but on the other hand does increase the reward for waiting the marginal season or two seasons uh to sew and so and it also greatly increases the cost that beanstalk has to pay to lenders and so given that at the margin it may actually cause people to be more hesitant and wait um having the weather increase in a linear fashion especially during periods where uh the weather is on the higher end and there's just not a lot of demand for soil in this range um it's probably less a question of should the weather be 4100 or 4200 and more a question of continuing to bring beanstalk to a wider audience and you know demonstrating that even even at its high weather it continues to oscillate the price above and below the peg now it's also helpful to think about how the weather changes work when there's a much lower weather let's call it single or double digits where a one to three percent weather change is much larger and so in those scenarios they have more of this effect already where the you know as we just discussed in the case where you have very high weather and now you're changing the weather as a percent or the weather is increasing 40 percent in a season maybe similarly if the weather was 10 and now it could be 13 that is at the margin a big difference and so the when the when the weather is lower it does actually play more into this inefficient market but at the same time if you move the weather as a percentage of the weather when it's one percent for example um it may never go up fast enough and that's how you create a real positive or a real negative feedback loop uh or a larger dead cycle and so the point is when beanstalk is in a more sustainable position with a lower weather it's happy to be a little bit more aggressive and maybe at the margin be slightly inefficient on the soil but quickly find the efficient weather rate necessary for the the weather neces the weather necessary to attract a demand for soil to return the price to the peg but in general like once we get into the longer uh debt cycles where the weather is going to be in the higher hundreds or even thousands uh it doesn't benefit beanstalk to quickly increase the weather from four thousand to five thousand to six thousand to ten thousand because that's how you very quickly enter a death spiral so it's better to take it slow and steady um at the same time we would say that we don't think that the way that the weather changes are set are are optimal this is one of the places where we think the model can continue to be improved so we would highlight two places one is measuring demand for soil particularly after bip9 it's almost always executing the complex weather and all that's fine the economic problem of how do you measure or consistently measure or come up with some sort of consistent measure for demand for an asset that has a very volatile supply from season to season you know when the price is above one you may have five thousand soil and the price is below and you may have fifty thousand soil how do you compare demand from season to season so that's one place that can be further improved from an efficiency perspective under the new rules and a somewhat related question is uh maybe there are certain scenarios separate from changing you know the weather changes from one percent to three percent uh or somewhere in that range there might be certain cases where it's beneficial to be in stock to decrease the weather maybe 10 percent in a season just to test out whether it can it can pay a lower weather so maybe if there are consecutive seasons where the two off is greater than one it jumps um and again we're hesitant to have it on the flip side where if they're consecutive seasons below a dollar it jumps because beanstalk isn't necessarily in a rush to jump the weather up and that does come with its own uh negative effect on individual behavior so uh those are some thoughts on the weather we definitely agree it's not perfect but would be hesitant to make the change to the changing the weather as a percent of the weather although that's certainly an idea we've considered at length thanks publius and i agree with you with regards to having the weather increases percentage of the weather as it's increasing can lead us to a death spiral i was thinking having the weather change as a percentage of the weather depending on how far are we from from the peg so once again you know if we're like close to a dollar then the weather would actually decrease and as if we're far away from the dollar uh then the weather would increase so right now where we are is that the weather will only start to decrease once you know we are above uh the peg for some time or you know which which is when the demand for the soil is there if we measure the demand of soil implicitly because you know if if the if the bean price is far away from the peg that tells you that you know the demand is low or when it's higher than the demand is there so we kind of already have a measure of uh the demand of soil through the the price of bean itself so the thinking again is if we're far away from the peg or as we're going away from uh from the dollar instead of right now but we're only saying are we above or below we want to see how far are we from the from the dollar and if we're far away then we'll have weather increase and it increases at a much faster rate it doesn't have to be the three percent so it becomes because it becomes as a percentage and as we're going closer to the dollar then the weather would decrease uh and it can decrease again fast my thinking again is that this will change the incentive of how uh people think so you know you we don't know right now we know that it will take a lot of time for example for the weather to start decreasing uh um i'm giving that you know at the rate it decreases but if if if as as the price of the beam goes towards the peg then the weather will will go down it will will still have some percentage to continue reaching to the dollar that we want but it's one before thousand it can become like 2 000 suddenly and if we go again to like 90 cents then it goes again to like 4 000 or so on i'm not sure if if this is clear or it makes sense or not love where your head is at love where your head is at and in general this is a very interesting idea um very interesting there are two concerns one is to us we would actually look at the price deviation from the peg as less of an indication of where the weather is at relative to the optimal level as compared to the consecutive seasons below the peg um that's just our initial reaction and specifically in instances where there's extended periods significantly below the peg you know demand for soil it's still probably a better reference point and we're hesitant to introduce additional complexity to the model which has been built on sort of as much simplicity as possible but at the same time you do raise a very interesting additional way that similar data points can be further incorporated into the model which is really neat one thing that we're hesitant of is or you know take into consideration which comes to mind in your proposal is whether this potentially let's say we switch to the t-wop idea where if there are consecutive seasons below a dollar uh the weather increases more that may increase the reward for some sort of price manipulation where someone is willing to bear the cost to keep the the t walk below a dollar to to create a marginal additional increase in the weather but speaking out loud that actually doesn't seem particularly likely and there is something to be said for maybe based on the consecutive seasons that that have you know had a t-walk below a dollar maybe slightly increase the rate that the weather increases but again that might get you into closer to moving things up too aggressively because it's like if today the weather was 4 400 instead of 4 100 because there have been consecutive seasons below a dollar honestly not sure that would have been stuck in a better position based on the current market that it's in where uh it's more a question of attracting uh a newer audience based on its already general proof of concept of returning the price to the peg and that newer audience will hopefully helping stock d leverage under its new rules but this is a very interesting idea and we would have to give it more thought to really [Music] to give you a better answer but you know very impressed by by by this idea and you know we'll definitely be giving it some more thought on our end thanks publius my last question is do we have a way to simulate uh the protocol if we want to play around and you know just play around even with the demand on the supply of beans and see how the model is reacting do we have something that's off of chain that we can run this is this something that's modeled somewhere so one of the things that we're actively trying to develop at beanstalk farms it's a really best-in-class suite of analytics tools uh at the moment nothing like that really exists uh that you know that would really fulfill what you're talking about but in general you know there are community members that are working on various uh you know various analytics tools like bernoulli bean additionally you i mean publius do you have something you wanted to say yeah um you know just was gonna say um that you can you know just uh deploy a newbie a local blockchain node and you know test through that you can also use the robson tester metamask to robson you can access stock on the test network um and you can call seasons there and do everything so those are a few options thank you is there a guide on on how to do that um i i kind of understand what these networks are but is there a way where i can read more on how can i access that and play around in that environment um not currently but if you dm we can answer all your questions and you know i i think you're cutting out but what you're saying is that they'll dm you and then maybe you can give us instructions which i will do thank you for this sounds great thank you very much appreciate your time answering my questions all right thank you mod 323 and by the way that's uh somebody fine bean profile picture you got there it's got the hat the goggles um if if anyone else has you know any questions you know feel free to raise your hand here we'll bring you up or dump them into the ama questions um so i guess moving moving forward slightly you know we're coming up on the hour obviously so just want to take a take a quick look at the future you know unless we have any more questions on on what's going on in the present but you know to the to the point of i was just staring at the protocol to the point of the weather and the pods and the pod line in general deleveraging you know this continues to obviously be a theme in beanstalk and and we've passed a few bips we've continued to you know think through different ways to mechanically leverage aside from you know the obvious obvious solution of bringing in more folks which we're also working on you know publius or you know dumpling or anyone really if if you had to if you had to sell this to someone you know from the perspective of someone looking at this protocol someone knew you know they're looking at a pod line that's got 580 million pods to potentially pay off so it's about 1.2 million billion beans that need to be produced they're looking at an lp in a silo that uh you know the listed apis are obviously small but you know that that's not you know they're not actual apys they're looking at a silo and an lp that um is you know effectively not paying out and given the price of beans um i guess what what would you if you ran to someone on the street and they were like hey you know i'm looking again to uh some you know something in d5 and you want to talk about bean and obviously you wouldn't tell them who you were publius but uh wha what would you tell them you know what looking for someone looking at the protocol for the first time now you know what would you tell them in order to get them to join and potentially deploy some capital so we try to go out of our way not to sell beanstalk uh per se and instead to just speak substantively about the protocol but um to try to speak to what you're asking about ipo and chill about uh what the actual opportunity here is and why we're we're so excited about beanstalk if you consider at a macro level what's going on i mean there's so much to be excited about but the starting point is as compared to esd or dsd or basis cash or any of the other previous attempts at a purely algorithmic non-collateralized stable coin uh none of them have lived uh as long as beanstalk has lived beanstalk has now been alive for a little over five months whereas the rest of them uh i think esd lived the longest it was around four months uh and beanstalk seems to be in a relatively sustainable position from a peg maintenance perspective for the next couple of weeks and even with eath really down bad over the past couple of weeks beanstalk has hung out in the low 90s despite the fact that prior to eat taking a dip there were still uh excess supply below a dollar people willing to sell beans below a dollar and so you combine that with an eat dip uh we're not particularly surprised by the period of time here below a dollar but if you zoom out uh at the price chart and take a look at the all-time price chart that is in our opinion something to get super super excited about that the volatility seems to be coming down gradually and with hopefully an increase in the liquidity in the bean three curve pool over time as it's integrated into beanstalk that will result in even less volatility around a dollar the more general opportunity that gets us very excited comes comes from the specific economic position of beanstalk so currently the supply is only around 42 million beans but on the pod line side of things there's almost 600 million pods and so as bean stock starts to pay off its debt uh and increase its supply and decrease its pod rate right ultimately bean stock is designed to optimize not just around the price but around the debt level as the debt level starts to come down and that proof of concept that beanstalk isn't just able to oscillate the price above and below a dollar but uh is able to decrease its debt level over time our our expectation is that beanstalk will between all of the development happening with beanstalk farms and hopefully the growth around beanstalk to supplement that our hope is that beanstalk will go through a larger deleveraging over the next three to six months and grow to around the size of other uh you know newer stablecoin implementations like fey and fracs and ust and uh in doing so uh you know and deleveraging and growing to that size beanstalk will also demonstrate its model at a macro level and then be ready to hang with the big boys if you will so the hope is that that will all transpire over the next three to six months and so uh not not to evaluate the specific risk return opportunity but this this does in our opinion appear to be a very high high leverage opportunity for beanstalk and its position within d5 and once you know once things get going and beanstalk is at a couple billion beans and at the size of a fair fracks uh it will be while still a very unique and interesting value proposition with much less risk associated with it because of the lower pod rate um there will also be less reward in terms of a lower weather uh to go along with that and so this is if you believe in the opportunity ahead of beanstalk this is a fabulous time to acquire exposure to being stuck so uh again not trying to be a salesman in any capacity but just looking at the opportunity ahead of being stuck from an economics perspective uh things do seem to be in the short term somewhat sustainable and in the long term very ripe for uh larger growth and ipo just because you mentioned me i'd step in as the as the salesman for just a second um and i'd i basically say that listening to publius there if i was chatting with those folks on the street what i would probably say to them is you know here's some information about beanstalk here's where i think it's going and i would ask them to decide on a percent chance that we would reach say 1.2 billion and if they're if they threw a percent back at me like 5 10 20 then i would take them to the field and i would say by sowing these beans you're offered a 41 41 to 1 return so as long as it's you know as long as you're getting as long as you think there's a two and a half percent chance uh then that's fair odds and if you think there's a 25 chance then that's pretty darn good uh odds so you know that's one way of looking at it that's only one way of investing in beanstalk but um i think that from my perspective and from all most of my perspectives here i think we stand a pretty darn good shot of making this thing work and new investors are being offered although yeah it's a long wait uh it could be a long wait it's a pretty amazing risk reward opportunity so that's that's kind of where i'm coming from and um might be something you could say to those those potential investors there was one question uh that i'll bring up after your um ipo i don't know if you had anything else but it was another question i might just add to that um that to us the most exciting development around beanstalk is the growth of the dow and the community and beanstalk farms and the quality of individuals are working uh on beanstalk in a part-time or full-time capacity and quitting their jobs to work full-time on beanstalk that gets us really excited about what what is to come so uh it's not just about economically beanstalk is uh doing relatively well which is fabulous uh the quality of of the support uh around beanstalk is getting to a level where we are starting to feel very good about the way that we've gone about developing beanstalk which is from the ground up very much no no pre-mine no team allocation no pre-sale or anything like that the the proof is in the pudding with the quality of people that now have exposure to beanstalk and want to commit themselves to making beanstalk a reality so very very exciting development uh from that perspective yeah i 100 agree with that and it's not um it's just it is amazing to all the people who are um you know working with everyone and it's just a really great group of people and um yeah so i actually don't i don't go out and tell all my friends or everyone to buy to buy beans or to sow beans but people have approached me and said hey what's this thing you're so obsessed with and what you've been spending so much time on i want to invest in it you know and so it's actually it's kind of like by not selling it you know you're almost selling it so anyway yeah i mean look that's this is the ultimate goal right to be walking around uh on the streets of wherever you are and people are just asking you about beans so um we're working hard to get bean to be uh a household name uh i i was gonna make that point publicly it's about the community you know it's just amazing to see we almost have 2 000 folks in the discord we have active twitter chatter and it continues to grow you know maybe to talk a little bit more about community and community involvement we always make it a point in these amas to to discuss you know different ways folks can get involved and that's also been more formalized recently uh you know dumpling maybe maybe this is one for for you to talk about since you're a shining living example um you know what what are some interesting highlights on the community side of things you know what what have we kind of built over the last couple of weeks in terms of organization and then are there ways are there needs that the community can help fulfill absolutely yeah as much as we've built and as much people who have flooded in to help we also do have several um you know kind of open positions things that we need help with um in the last couple of weeks we've been kind of really fleshing out the the org chart and the the organization of things through both notion you may have noticed uh the discord has been kind of reorganized and just building up the dow um in general you know organizing things in terms of roles and responsibilities for certain members communication um best practices you know so it's been uh quite the infrastructure month which we're kind of finishing up here um a lot of the project management side of things as he's really coming along there's a new way to apply if if you have uh interest in working for the dow you can go on the sidebar you can scroll down to dao beanstalk farms and you can hit apply and look in the different departments for what's for what's needed um if we have uh technical people with with experienced technical writers with experience writing like doc like docs for um i mean for other other protocols but maybe also for software that sort of thing um we are looking for that if we're look we're also looking for folks in in marketing who have good experience you know in marketing and leading groups of you know teams of people um and we're also on the business development side of things uh max soh is leading that up but he has now uh one or two people who are going to be helping him in a very part-time capacity but people who have a little bit um you know more experience in the business development side of things um be sure to reach out and there will also be if you want to get involved in kind of a more fun way there's going to be you know in a more part-time capacity the layer 3 bounties are going to be coming up really soon so you can look at those they're going to be expanded it's going to be really fun there's a lot of cool ones in there so farmer dan has put those together and those are going to be the first initiative that goes through bean sprout so on the topic of bean sprout uh that's another opportunity for people to if they have their own idea if they have a an interesting idea that they want to move forward with they can submit an application uh through bean sprout that will be added to the both the notion and the discord here pretty soon so an application for beansprout if you have an idea say that you wanted to um if you wanted to for example start a beanstalk there's been some discussion of a beanstalk podcast uh if you wanted to head that up you know buy microphones get guests organize all this dedicate a certain amount of time to it this would be the sort of thing you could submit a proposal to a proposal would be reviewed by beansprout and then uh it would you know it would get refined and then you would get a lump sum you know payment for your project and then you know you would you could uh pursue that project and that's through bean sprout which is like our accelerator so that's really exciting um yeah i'm sorry i'm rambling a little bit there's a ton of exciting stuff uh if you don't know exactly where you might fit in you can always dm me we can have a quick chat kind of a discovery chat to figure out where you might fit in and what your skills are and interests are and yeah a lot of good stuff uh coming up in q1 so look forward to speaking with you um ipo i did have a question that i wanted to uh throw out to publius real quick micro question um this was uh it was on the discord and i just drive it down uh it was has there been any discussion of beanstalk attempting to auto arb its own pools now that there are multiple pools they'll inevitably be armed by bots at some point and it seems that the protocol trying to arm them themselves and distributing these profits to the silo or otherwise might improve the protocol and might be preferable to some rando doing it so uh publius so this is where philosophically beanstalk doesn't really work with something like that so a lot of different uh coin protocols uh use pcv or pol protocol control value or protocol on liquidity to uh maintain their peg and we really feel like the way to build the most robust resilient money is to have the protocol itself make the least guarantees possible beanstalk makes no guarantees in fact other than your pods won't expire it won't default on your pods and as soon as you have some sort of arbitrage that beanstalk is doing you move away from that now at a micro level if the protocol is committing to buy and sell above and below a dollar with a certain amount of liquidity that also becomes very easily manipulable uh to various market participants because they know beyond a certain threshold that there will be some additional volatility above or below the peg and they can take advantage of that and so as soon as you have beanstalk commit to some involvement in peg maintenance you expose the protocol to some sort of larger manipulation and so the goal is to instead have uh an efficient market for beans stock seeds pods soil created through incentive structures that encourage a wide variety of market participants to all over time uh because of their own individual incentives return the price of a bean to a dollar okay i think that makes sense i could see how that would also add the more the more complicated you make it the more kind of attack vectors and things you could you could introduce sometimes without even even knowing it um and also the introduction of arabs should help our stability and that's people won't arb unless there's an opportunity for that um so that's one other thing that jump that pulled to my mind but okay uh one last point on the community you're asking the community for help here we are actively looking at different marketing agencies folks in the the twitter sphere and and other individuals or groups or companies that can help do some outreach for the project for obvious reasons so if you have any connections there or you have any ideas or interesting interesting things we can pursue feel free to shoot me a dm we have a couple of different folks working on marketing efforts but uh we have a few meetings uh you know dumpling you're aware of this a few meetings scheduled this week and we're definitely trying to make a ton of progress on that and make as much noise as we can out there good noise though very intellectual and and proper noise but noise nonetheless so if you have any connections there or or know anyone who does feel free to slide into my dm and and let me know yeah we would just also uh highlight a couple people have mentioned that we should go on some podcasts um we're very open to that and you know if the community has uh you know anyone that they'd like us to speak to on their podcast you know we think at this point that's probably a good use of our time and just to speak on the layer three bounties that farmer dan is working on one of them is uh introducing us to a podcast and then if that podcast ends up getting recorded uh there's a bounty for that so in fact just a little added incentive uh for someone who uh wants to introduce us to a podcast yeah maybe we can have a couple of those yeah i think there's up to five uh you know we zero to five so if no one does it zero but if if uh 15 people do it we'll do it for the first five or the biggest five or the most successful five yeah if anybody knows joe rogan do your thing eat wallet what's going on do you have a question hello guys how are you uh what you think about reaching some youtubers great youtubers to speak about to speak about beanstalk i think twitter is good but some people said that youtube is better than twitter do you have any in mind eat wallet like any no no well as you know there is a big big youtubers but i don't know if they accept sure yeah i think that that's a reasonable place we could reach out and and see were you thinking more of an interview format we do have some videos that are being created that we'll be putting on youtube but as far as interviews uh youtube could be good or maybe we could you know incentivize or pay people to to do review you know a sort of a review of beanstalk or you know a high-level crypto person to do that um and maybe we could chat offline about what might be a good idea there thank you yeah that could be a good that could be a good bounty and you know ideally some of the agencies we talk to if we if we do end up you know engaging one then ideally they have some connections there as well i'm lifelong bean guy wondering hublius can we do some work to create some content that directly addresses the number one question and criticism of the beanstalk from potential investors which is why beanstalk isn't a ponzi scheme like it would be great if there were a set of resources that directly responded to that particular framing of the question and criticism can we be a little bit more targeted in our materials because it seems like a lot of the stuff that i see on the twitter and on the blog is highly technical and theoretical it's like the zuck approach to just sort of directly explain what's happening instead of responding to the narrative but i think we should be responding to the narrative so i'll jump in quickly poolish before you do that we do have we definitely have resources i think this is just a a common a common issue of different things existing different places but uh bean merchant who who's in the same as well has put out uh an faq burbean it's you know aka the the unofficial b and faq in that faq the exact question is being a ponzi scheme is addressed i feel like you have to address that question i'm familiar with the doc i don't think that you know all due respect to merchant my good friend i don't think the the messaging of that response is direct is thorough enough like we should revisit that sure and look i'd be given my work in marketing here i'd be happy to connect with you i i completely feel you because this is the number one question that i'm answering as well to folks because i do think it's the number one question you do have to answer before you know folks get in or or some folks are actually looking for a ponzi because they think they're gonna get it early uh so completely understand where you're where you're coming from and um you know we should we should definitely connect but publius would love to hear what you have to say on this so with regards to the macro comment of access to information and how to present that information and whether it's good to directly respond to it uh hope right now there is sort of the white paper and then everything else if you will and the there needs to be a lot more documentation around being stock as it continues to grow and to make that information really widely accessible and all we're biased towards being really open about technical information we recognize that people have other questions that need really thorough answers to as well and so the hope is to move sort of to the to a get book a bean stock git book that is contains all of that information in a nicely formatted way and it's going to be a lot of work to get that up to par with the quality of the documentation of the white paper for example and to have it have different tones to reach different audiences but that is something that is you know top of mind for for for beanstalk farms and as dumplings sort of gave a shout out you know if people are interested in working on technical documentation like the git book they should reach out now to answer more substantively the question or criticism around beanstalk being a ponzi scheme there's a couple a it totally makes sense why people want to understand that b if you look at something like esd or basis cash it sure looks like a ponzi scheme and so it's really important as you say we pay that there is a more clear answer to that so there's a couple both in practice differences but then from a theoretical level things don't quite line up with a ponzi scheme so in general a ponzi scheme is a mechanically where you are taking money from one group of individuals and giving that money to another group of individuals and one of the key differences here that makes beanstalk not a ponzi scheme mechanically is that beanstalk isn't giving your money to someone else because it has the ability to mint new money and so instead uh while there is still very much like needs to be an answer to the ponzi like dynamic just at a micro level there is that difference there and the way that that plays out is that because beanstalk can mint its own money can incentivize new demand with that ability to mint money in practice uh the the economics that prevent a collapse in the system is that beanstalk needs to be able to mint uh enough money to pay off its debt um over time and that's where the sustainability comes from and in practice beanstalk can mint more beans uh than there have been beans bought and there is a time weighted average shortage excuse yeah shortage of beans in the pool over consecutive previous seasons so let's say someone buys a million beans on the open market and nobody sells or 500 000 beans are sold and so now there's still a time weighted average uh shortage of beans in the pool of 500 000 beans um if if there continues to be a time weighted average shortage of beans for consecutive seasons for 10 seasons beanstalk will mint half a million beans for 10 seasons so despite the fact that only a million dollars of demand came in uh assuming that there are no sellers um there isn't necessarily any supply that is coming due and so from a more macro mechanic level bean stock as long as it uh doesn't have people that are always every time they get a new bean willing to sell it uh right at a dollar it can mint more beans that are used than are bought and therefore pay off its debt level now ultimately this doesn't really answer the question of well you're just taking in money to mint more money and so at the end of the day it is really important that there is real utility for beans that are developed because in order to prevent people from just selling their beans at or around a dollar or even below a dollar during a run on the bank the goal is to create real use for beans across d5 and so instead go ahead um yeah first of all that that explanation makes sense to me i'm a believer so i think by and large again i'll repeat i think our largest challenge is that many people do not understand or believe that explanation or view that as meaningfully different than the definition of a ponzi to consider us something different than that and i consider that to be in my personal experience with being with beanstalk like some other people on this ama have said i've experienced that to be my biggest issue with helping incentivize new investment on the platform people see me involved they want to invest i explain how it works they say it's a ponzi i explain how it's not and but the ways that it's not are not sufficiently meaningful enough to make it feel not enough like a ponzi scheme to make people interested so i really really think that a top priority for the dow should be like you said creating new documentation that explains this better the second thing is we talk a lot about our ability to maintain the peg over time and whilst that's like a mechanical issue that needs to be proven and borne out over time obviously because losing peg would mean we lose everything it seems like we should be placing a much higher focus even at this stage on utility and i know that's what um i forget what the name of the new program is but that's what that program is developed to incentivize but how much of your time are you spending between you know thinking about the actual mechanics of the platform versus thinking about our the ways we're building utility on the platform because as far as i'm concerned there still has never been a beans killer app and until we get that we'll really never ever be able to escape ponzi discussion what you say is a hundred percent correct and being sprout is designed to hopefully help incubate and develop uh one or more of those killer apps so we would just echo that sentiment and say that we recognize that that's all everything you just said is correct and developing real utility for beans is essential now we spend i would say you know significant amount of our time on documentation at the moment um like when we're not on phone calls and working on uh the dow and getting everyone organized on the dow front and taking calls with uh potential protocol integrations we're spending an excessive amount of our time working on documentation and maintaining the white paper and making sure that uh there's there's live documentation around in stock and you know we take your comments very seriously that there needs to be more focus on documentation around that type of messaging and as we work on the git book in the coming weeks that will you know that will be a focus and this is incredibly helpful and constructive uh comments well thanks please dm me if you want anybody to help and long live bean merchant yeah we would also echo that sentiment bean merchant is uh pretty epic there will be a snapshot uh to honor him as chief evangelist of bean just wanted to mention that these beans what's popping we just sent you a friend request um yeah i just uh came up to also kind of address the um some of the concerns that we've had um definitely agree with ebay and we are definitely working on those concerns right now um as far as things are going on in beanstalk farms uh we've taken the past couple of weeks to do like a huge uh branding initiative uh trying to really understand understand where we place in the market our brand who we are where target audiences currently um all that content all the creative content all the all the things that we need to hit the people that we want to onboard are in the works for sure and so um yeah just wanted to kind of echo what uh coopius was saying about hopefully in the coming weeks like we'll be able to see more of that come to fruition all right thanks um i think we have a few more on the ama um tubing or not to bean is asking i believe the biggest area of doubt here at least from people i've talked to is how does beanstalk begin to pay off its 600 million dollars of debt and eventually get to that larger deleveraging and growing to the size of facts for a ust i will catalyze beanstalk to be able to start that leveraging process and get the ball rolling um so naming a specific catalyst is very difficult the hope is a combination of things like the curve pool the pot marketplace um stocking seeds going live will start to create that general positive environment that is conducive to some some sort of catalyst now just speaking substantively if you look at how beanstalk behaved during its last growth cycle around thanksgiving uh that was really kick-started uh you know when when like a single wallet put in around a million dollars over a short period of time a little over 200 heath and basically if you go to the analytics of the website and go to the field and the harvested tab and go to all time you can see that during that two-week stretch from around thanksgiving to uh you know around where the current pods harvested is there was around 15 million pods harvested and [Music] the growth of being stocked during that period was from around the 20 million supply to a 50 million supply uh it it increased by around 150 um a increasing the supply of just here another 30 million from 40 to 70 um would result in a decrease in the pod rate under the new soil rules for bif6 and pip 9 would result in almost a halving of the of the pod rate and if you assume that beanstalk grows 150 uh now the product is going to be down sixty percent um and uh in short the that type of decrease in the pod rate should be which again shouldn't require that much capital to get going should give beanstalk a lot of wiggle room over the next couple months to to start a larger deleveraging and under the new soil parameters we don't anticipate after that small growth cycle uh you know no matter how large it is if it's 30 million or uh 70 million or i guess 150 would be 60 million of growth in the supply uh we don't expect the pod rate to necessarily get this high again in the near future and so uh the hope is that the environment is right for a larger deleveraging at some point over the next couple months once that initial deleveraging happens and just at a micro level we don't anticipate more than a couple million dollars of demand for beans are necessary to start that deleveraging uh and so uh you know again we're more focused on uh developing technology that can help facilitate the catalyst for demand than on the specific demand itself that makes sense something i didn't understand um until really probably a couple weeks ago is that it's not like if we're if we're trying to get beanstalk to a billion beans and we're at 40 million right now we don't need 960 million dollars of buy pressure because of the reasons that you laid out in a couple of answers today which is uh a big difference you know um do you have any other questions you've seen or wanted um i'm looking through the channel right now um shout out shout out nashjack by the way he put together uh a good document on the journey to a a billion being so for folks who haven't seen that please take a look uh and also take a look at the nas jackpooblius podcast uh someone asked earlier about youtube if um you know folks do run podcasts obviously look at the later three bounties but we can put content on youtube as well so um i mean it's a bit of a interesting question who's who's the other publius um i i think this might just be a good opportunity to to just clarify for those who may be new you know publicly as far as we know it's the team of two of you who can say yeah who knows might might even be joking you never know yeah there's elk meat uh in the fridge at least at least two i think what we can say at least it's like mr smith in the matrix you know you never know it could be everybody um i personally don't have any any further questions uh if folks want to raise their hand maybe we can squeeze one more in anybody we are recording this by the way so if anyone joined a little bit late you can listen to the recording later and get a feel for what we talked about in the beginning i think before we wrap things up police that you have any closing thoughts anything you want to you want to say before we we wrap up and and that i have a few things to say too but the you know we've already spoken a lot about the opportunity uh that beanstalk has in front of it i just want to use this as an opportunity to say thank you to the individuals that are actually making it happen uh we really have been blown away by the level of interest and entrepreneurship and self-starter this that has been displayed by many of our incredible members of the community here many of whom are pfps in this in this call and that's what that's what gives us you know it's not about the energy to wake up in the morning but that's what gives us just this incredible fire inside that makes us feel like this is this is something real that's happening and so wanna issue a a call for anyone else that isn't currently actively working on beanstalk but is serious and thoughtful and hard working and wants to be a part of something great and we bae we love the shout out here so we'll definitely be in touch um you know there's this is a wide there are a wide range of opportunities available for contributors and want to get as many people involved working on beanstalk as possible and so this is we really hope that this is just the beginning and are excited to continue on this journey with everyone awesome dumpling anything anything you want to add before i close this out no i think i think we've uh pretty much handled it i kind of shouted out everything i wanted to in the in the beginning of it so um yeah go ahead let's wrap awesome well thank you all for joining in lieu of class today i think this was super beneficial as they as they often are once again this will be recorded so feel free to hit up the the spotify when it's up and you know look out for the rest of the week we do a twitter spaces every single week dump is a part of that hype they host that as well jww joins it's a great way to talk not really just about beans but just about define general and to get additional folks in the twitter community into into getting bean pill so i usually send out uh you know dumpling ads into the calendar and i usually send out a notice in the chat so keep your eyes peeled for that that's weekly and you know most importantly as as we've talked about the community not only has grown so much but we're really all in this together and the energy is very very much unbelievable and positive so if you do want to get involved and you do want to at least find out where you can get involved please reach out to dumpling and moreover if there are concerns you know i think you know ebay did a great job of voicing some personal concerns he's been having that clearly we all feel so if you have concerns like that feel free to you know dm any one of us and and let's keep this moving and harvest these pods oh and uh go vote if you haven't checked out the snapshots yet there's quite a few of them live i think 15 or 16 um are up there so you can go take a look at those and uh and vote yeah and snapshots are free right to vote yes free no gasless gasless voting so gasless voting exactly so exercise you're right um all right the link in the ama questions just in case anyone doesn't know how to get there all right link is in the ama questions go vote do your duty and thank you very much you