Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #3

Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #3

November 30, 2021

0:00 Intro • 6:00 Publius Opening Thoughts • 14:00 Beanstalk "Pause"? • 19:10 State of Future Integrations • 26:30 Auditing BIP's - Purpose of Multiple Audits • 34:30 Security of Beanstalk from Attacks (MEV & More) • 39:40 Risks to Podline? • 43:20 What Keeps Publius Up At Night? (Risks?) • 47:30 LP, Sowing, and Decentralization • 50:00 BIP-6 and Deleveraging • 57:00 What are the Community Needs to Move Forward? • 1:01:00 Publius Motivations To Scale Beanstalk? • 1:07:00 Merch • 1:08:00 BIP-6 Pod Clearance Time? Sustainable Growth? • 1:16:10 Beanstalk Roadmap • 1:21:30 Stalk and Seeds Becoming Tradable - Impacts? • 1:33:00 Automatically LP After Harvesting? • 1:35:00 Is the Price Oracle Decentralized and Redundant? • 1:44:00 Can You Burn Stalk/Seeds for Soil? • 1:51:00 Call to Action • 1:53:20 Adoption Rates of Beanstalk? • 1:58:00 Outro

Ask Me Anything



Publius Opening Thoughts

  • An incredible development team, operations team, and community has started to grow around Beanstalk. We’re very excited for what’s to come.
  • Given the massive increase in demand for Beanstalk and Beans, it makes sense to dramatically increase the size of the team, so as we think ahead to the Q1 budget it should probably grow from 200K in Q4 to 1M in Q1.
  • We’re thrilled with the progress, but in order to keep pace with growth, we want to surround Beanstalk with high quality development that operates in a truly decentralized fashion.
  • With 270M Pods and a Bean supply of 44M, Beanstalk is being valued at at least $585M on the debt side (you have to multiply the 270 by 2 because Pods receive half of new Bean mints).
  • The Pod Rate has come down from over 670% to now almost 600%, which is a good indication the system has started to deleverage.

Beanstalk "Pause"?

  • They were very reluctant to pause Beanstalk. There were other instances where small bugs resulted in misallocations of Beans to different Silo members, but they were on a smaller order oof magnitude than what necessitated a pause last Tuesday. There was also a massive influx of capital that day, which signaled that the misallocation would get much worse.
  • At this point, the publius wallet address still has the unilateral ability to change the Beanstalk contract and to pause Beanstalk, and over time they really hope to have that privilege revoked.

State of Future Integrations

  • Currently, the Bean ecosystem on Ethereum is not fully formed. Meaning Stalk, Seeds, and Silo Beans are not liquid and tradeable, there’s still a massive inefficiency in the bean price, and there are changes to the model that can be made to enable it to maintain a much tighter peg.
  • As Beanstalk demonstrates its ability to oscillate over one, it’s reasonable to expect other protocols will start to consider holding Beans or holding deposited Beans.
  • We have to be careful about what integrations look like until Beanstalk matures a bit and becomes ready to support itself against potentially large attackers.
  • Beanstalk is probably ready for a Bean-3CRV pool, but it might not even need to be incentivized.

Auditing BIP's - Purpose of Multiple Audits

  • We’d like to have everything reviewed by multiple high quality auditors because no single audit is a catch all for security.
  • We’re not concerned about redundancy. If anything, we want redundancy.

Security of Beanstalk from Attacks (MEV & More)

  • The most notable sort of attack would be simple MEV (miner extractable value) attacks on the Bean-ETH pool, but those seem to have decreased to some extent as the volume and liquidity have increased.
  • The pump and dump that happened in September resulted losses for the people who thought they could exploit the system by depositing and then withdrawing before the Season of Plenty.
  • As Beanstalk grows, it will become more and more resilient to economic attacks such as the pump and dump. As far as technical attacks, that’s the benefit of having auditors who will bring expertise about the histories of different exploits and attacks on smart contracts and open source code in general.

Risks to Pod Holders From Concentration of the Pod Line

  • Publius believes that the system has approached a sufficient network size where there is enough demand below a dollar to absorb sales from maturing Pods.

LP, Sowing, and Decentralization

  • Much of the liquidity being added to the Silo is coming from harvested Pods. Users are selling half of their Beans for ETH and depositing the LP into the Silo. This is making the ownership of Stalk and liquidity more diversified over time.

BIP-6 and Deleveraging

  • The Pod Rate is the best indicator of how levered up the system is at any given moment, and the expectation is that the Pod Rate will continue to come down if Beanstalk continues to grow aggressively.
  • The fact that the Pod Rate isn’t coming down that fast even though there is excess demand for Soil indicates that the Soil isn’t being set as efficient as possible.
  • One of the main reasons to issue Soil is to have a way to price debt. Determining how much Soil is necessary for that can be difficult, because if you don’t issue enough the transaction fees will make it hard to get an accurate gauge of demand.
  • The Soil issuance is being changed to factor in the Pods that were harvested at the start of the season.
  • It’s important to lower the amount of leverage, because that will allow for a lower weather and cheaper borrowing costs.

What are the Community Needs to Move Forward?

  • In the past we’ve said to reach out if you want to work on Beanstalk. Now we should expand that to say if you know anybody who you’d like to see work on Beanstalk. We’re growing fast enough that we should now tap our community’s networks for contributors.

Risk of Rug?

  • We are deeply committed to getting to a place where Beanstalk is no longer reliant on Publius, and we think that that is fundamental to the long-term success of Beanstalk.
  • There has been a conscious effort to make ownership of Beanstalk as diversified and decentralized as possible. If Publius were to totally sell their entire stake today, it probably wouldn’t make much of a difference.
  • Publius intends to continue to play a central role in the development of Beanstalk going forward.

BIP-6 Pod Clearance Time? Sustainable Growth?

  • Publius expects that with expansion, the number of seasons between sowing and harvesting will decrease.
  • The more regularly that Beanstalk cools off, the better. Efficiency improvements that have Beanstalk spend more time closer to a dollar on both sides of the dollar are important.
  • If the system is not able to regularly bring the price below $1 without radically increasing supply, it is not helpful in terms of long-term sustainability.
  • Since there are so many Beans in the Silo, the idea is to introduce conversion to Uniswap LP. That will allow users to add to the Uniswap LP without adding more ETH, and result in the price going down. You will only be able to do this when the price is above $1.
  • This will help increase liquidity and increase the ability for Beanstalk to return to peg.

Beanstalk Roadmap

  • Publius is hoping to have the community take the driver’s seat and dictate where things should go and how things should look and operate. Publius will generally try to focus more on the protocol side of things.
  • There will be some sort of winter edition of the website.

Stalk and Seeds Becoming Tradable - Impacts?

  • Over time, we hope to have both the deposit itself as well as the Stalk and Seeds tradeable and fungible.
  • The hope is that a market structure is created where the only want to get Stalk or exposure to the upside of Beans and Beanstalk continues to be to buy Beans first.

Automatically LP After Harvesting?

  • This is difficult because in the event of a large harvest, it might need to be done across many different accounts and that would increase the cost of the Sunrise function dramatically.


hey how's it going everybody welcome to the being ama i guess we'll wait maybe one or two more minutes for any any later riders but it looks like we already got a full house great uh publius how are you doing well uh honestly we just had a whole crazy past 15 minutes uh an emergency at home but uh glad we were able to clear it up with like 10 seconds to spare so we're happy to be here oh boy sorry to hear that but glad glad you resolved it hopefully it wasn't being protocol related not being call related uh interrelated so uh you know what are you gonna do yeah well to be clear hopefully it wasn't also related to your health uh you know the health the personal health does matter more than the health of the protocol let's not get carried away but glad glad you're here i i was unharmed but uh another member of uh of the household was harmed so i had to take care of that so glad we're uh glad we're here but that's neither here nor there okay perfect um let's let's get maybe give it one more minute and then we can get started does that sound good sounds good to us and i apologize in advance i'm just in a public place i'm outside oh hopefully i'm near a couple of big whales with the underneath but i'm just outside so if there is any background noise or anything of that matter i apologize in advance and i will go on mute when i'm not talking great so far you sound pretty good all right well look we got around 40 people in here and these normally go for about an hour and i do want to stick to time i know folks obviously have other things going on so why don't we get started uh it's been obviously you know a crazy time over the past couple of weeks the last ama we did was at i believe the end of october and this is the third ask me anything that we're doing so welcome everybody in the bean community if you're whether you're new whether you've been here and whether you just literally joined a minute ago it's been an absolutely amazing time since the inception of the project you know i joined the bean community in the beginning of october after i had first uh you know being merchant had told me about this project and you know i joined excitedly and it's been an exciting ride ever since you know obviously if you look at the protocol statistics and you're looking at the activity we're just absolutely crazy right you know we're looking at sky-high apys on the silo silo lp side and of course on the debt side it's been a wild ride from you know i remember when there was so much available soil and beans were trading below a dollar well below a dollar and now we're at a point where you know it's uh it's almost like you know where the the stable coin is very stable at a premium right you know i heard it was a stable coin i want my money back um so very crazy stuff i think today the purpose of today is obviously to ask questions about what's happening but generally speaking you know this is a community event and we really do want the community to stay and be involved i think we've seen a lot of examples over the past four weeks if not two weeks of community members really stepping up and helping drive different elements of the project forward whether it's with being uh being fts or or even looking at you know the finer points of the being algo and the beam mechanism and putting forth different proposals or even just trying to understand you know what are the different ways that we can help grow the project uh obviously if you look at liquidity over the past you know very recently over the past couple of weeks and liquidity has more than doubled and we're still at a point where you know one of the reference points that i like to look at is you know on uni swap you can look at a lot of the stable coin pools and many of these pools are in the order of several hundred million if not more than a billion and right now our liquidity pool is you know i haven't looked at the statistics recently forgive me but maybe around 11 12 13 billion dollars so plenty of room to grow plenty of exciting things ahead uh two or three ground rules before we get started uh if you have questions feel free to put them into the ama questions channel which i'll be checking periodically but obviously also uh once we get going you can raise your hand here if you're new to discord yeah i'm looking at my phone right now if you're on the desktop you should see this icon too but at the bottom there's usually a hand raised symbol uh you could do that and on your icon we'll see that your hand is raised we can bring you up to the stage and then just make sure to be unmuted uh there's also a mute button it's the microphone whether you're on the phone or whether you're on the desktop you can click that and if there's a crosstalk you're muted if there's no cross you're onbeating you can ask your question in general just as the community grows and from the perspective of just safety and security no one from the bean community or especially you know the publius team but no one from there's no bean help desk no one's going to be running out to you and dming you and asking for your wallet info or seeing or the finer points of security so if you are getting any kinds of messages like that you know i'm in new york i'm in new york right now you know if you see something say something right if there's bad actors or if there are people that are doing things like that please make that clear because no one from the beat organization or or the bean community should be doing that and then more importantly um in general you know obviously not that i would expect this kind of behavior but because we're all adults but obviously you know this is a plain ice environment um we're trying to learn more not just about the protocol but also brainstorm about how the community can get more involved and how we can move this project forward so that's the spirit in which we're doing this and you know i'm super happy to get this started so you know with us we have the development team uh goes by the name publius here on the stage and let's get this going so you know publius why don't we just kick off with a quick update about you know where your head's at and maybe a little introduction about what's going on here in bean well thank you ipo and chill for hosting and i apologize if you hear a little sniffles i'm a little under the weather but to lead off uh a polite uh correction would be that we can no longer claim to be the development team uh we're just a part of the development team at this point because one of the big updates around in stock over the past couple weeks is the incredible development team that and also just operational team and community that has started to grow around bean stuff so uh bublius remains the founder but we're very enthused by the increase in engagement development and focus from new high quality members of the community and there have been a couple of bdps that have passed recently and i've also been proposed recently to add really high quality people to the beanstalk farms development team and we're really thrilled with the pace that things are starting to pick up so when we look at from an economic perspective there's a lot to talk about in terms of what's going well and what can be improved further and then also on the on the development side uh the community and the development team and the marketing and operations side of things it's all getting us incredibly excited for what's to come and but the the main point of of our our attitude about what's going on today is given the massive increase in demand for beanstalk and for beans it makes sense to dramatically increase the size of the team even further and so as we think ahead to what the q1 budget proposal for beanstalk farms will look like you know whereas if the q4 budget was 200 000 beanstalk was a a fraction of the size that it is now at you know when when the proposal was made at the beginning of october and so we're thinking on the order of something like a thousand being excuse me a million beans uh for the q1 beanstalk farms development budget and the hope is to dramatically grow out our operational uh development capacities in an entirely decentralized fashion and we're again we're thrilled by the progress but in order to keep pace with the massive growth of being stuck on the economic front we want to make sure that we're able to surround be stuck with enough high quality development that operates in a in a truly decentralized fashion so this is all very exciting and we're you know we're happy to excited to answer everyone's questions about various economic uh intricacies that are obviously up for debate in some of the chats full disclosure we haven't especially over the past week or two as things have increased in activity in the discord we've stopped reading every message in the discord for the first time which on the one hand takes you know is a little bit uh nerve-wracking for us because we're so interested in what everyone is saying but on the other hand we have so much development work to do uh we simply can't keep pace with the with the volume of messages which is obviously in general a very good sign for the growth of the community so that's sort of that's sort of the the two second version or the two minute version of what's going on but to paint a picture about where we think this is going a little bit you know without being too uh over hyper just looking at it from an economic perspective which is given the current amount of pods which is over 270 million pods in the bean supply of over 44 million uh you have to multiply 270 times two which is 540 so beanstalk is being valued at at least 585 million dollars on the debt side which is very exciting and we feel like especially given the current bean price is so high that that's an indication that beanstalk is in a good position to start to pay off a lot of its debt and decrease the potline and the pot rate specifically and if you look at the pod rate the pod rate has come down from over 670 percent if i recall correctly to now almost 600 percent and things like that are general indications that the system has started to deleverage and when we consider where we are at in the grand scheme of things esd which was as we've spoken about was sort of where we got our our our inspiration from and we thought we can do much better than this was was launched in late august of 2020 and never re-pegged after mid-december and beanstalk and and and esd maxed out around a market cap of around 500 million so beanstalk has now been around for uh since early august and it's now got to be the beginning of december so it's around the longest living especially given that the price is above one and you know just returned below one for a very short period of time over the past hour or two but is now back above one it's evident that beanstalk is going to continue to grow and even if you consider and we assume we'll be asked a little bit about how the soil changes that are in a draft proposal for a potential dip six uh how that will affect the pot line and debt going forward when you consider that currently being stock is being valued at almost 600 million dollars and is is continuing to pay off debt and d leverage when it does pay off all or most of its most of its debt it'll be in a very good position to continue to grow further from there and so our main focus is over the next couple of months as that happens and there may be oscillations significantly below the peg and above the peg in the meantime we're focused and starting to really establish a diverse strong really high quality development and operational infrastructure around beanstalk and that starts with a strong beanstalk farms development team and operational team but obviously as we've talked about the hope is that this is also sourcing talent for people that are ultimately going to start their own development teams and work on their own uh things on beanstalk or around beanstalk so there's lots of ideas for integration and areas for growth we're happy to talk about and there's a ton of different stuff going on so uh you know in the next hour or two we'll hope to cover as much as possible okay absolutely and great to hear that the development team the building out of development team is coming along you know of course we had a little issue over the past few weeks where you know you as a team the privilege team stepped in and had to fix you know on the back end of things the issue with the silo either printing too many beans for some folks or printing too few beans um i guess do you want to talk about that a little bit just to kind of give the community a summary of what was going on what happened and then you know what will happen moving forward if it's like that arise sure so and a lot of this was discussed at much more length uh in the class that was held last tuesday so a week ago uh which was on the you know the just a few hours after the pause happened but there are a couple things that we really want to highlight one is that you were really reluctant to pause beanstalk and there were multiple other instances where we've been made aware of small bugs uh you know that are very similar in terms of they were also misallocations of beans to different silo members and when we did our initial research it it was evident that it was on a much smaller order of magnitude than uh the misallocation that we were made aware of last tuesday and especially given that beanstalk was growing so quickly as there seemed to be a massive inflow of capital on to tuesday that that made it such that misallocation appeared that it was going to get much much worse and even the beanstalk is at such an early stage and all of our supporters are sort of uh expecting one thing uh we felt like it was a very low cost in terms of a risk to the protocol uh but uh in a high benefit decision to pause beanstalk for a short period of time and you know the other thing we want to highlight is the decentralization aspect of it one thing we've been very open about or tried to be as open as possible about is that the publius wallet address the deployer of the beanstalk contract still has unilateral ability to change the beanstalk contract into pause beanstalk and over time we really hope to have that privilege remo revoked and you know we we hope to even be able to propose a bit to remove that privilege and that's something that is largely a function of how robust the security of beanstalk is and how strong it appears and there's a couple things to keep in mind karen obviously as the value of beanstalk grows the interest in attacking it also grows and so over time it will demonstrate some aspect of security but you know one of the things that we were very excited about is that there are two audit bips that both appear to already have a majority and with a couple days left you know could still even potentially reach a super majority and we we've already received documents from those from those audit firms and as soon as those fundraisers get started and funded we can start having beaten stock audited and that's going to be a major step towards starting the conversation of what else needs to happen for for ownership privileges to be revoked and the only other thing we want to caution is over the next couple months there are going to be a ton of integrations added to beanstalk hopefully in terms of other decentralized exchanges other lending protocols other other chains and ultimately there is something to be said for having the ability to pause very quickly and especially given our experience over the past couple you know over the last week or so that situation there is something to be considered about potentially making the governance able to act even quicker than just 24 hours and maybe make it an hour or two but that's something that we're also open to from the community based on everyone else's experience and these are all these are all things that are open for consideration at the moment and you know this is meant to be a collaborative process okay thank you um also as a reminder if you do have questions feel free to just raise your hand in the discord uh on that point about integrations that's obviously something that comes up quite a bit in the chat and even for this ama people have had some some questions why don't we actually dive into that a little bit given that it's been a common topic with regards to integrations what exactly is the the current state of this you know are there current conversations uh and with regards to how like how do you feel which integrations would be meaningful and are we thinking also of things like cross chain integrations you know for instance getting into layer two and creating some version of being on layer two so the main point when it comes to integrating beanstalk and you can really think about it in two separate segments one is integration with various protocols on a given chain and then there's separately integrations with other chains when it comes to integration with and we can just think about currently beans on ethereum the bean ecosystem is still not fully formed meaning stock and seeds and silo beans are not liquid and tradable there's still a massive inefficiency in the bean price and it's not yet at a dollar and there's a couple efficiencies we think we can we can change in the model to make it further uh maintain a much tighter peg to one and over the next month or two as beanstalk continues to demonstrate an ability to oscillate over one we think it's very reasonable to expect that other protocols will start to consider holding beans or holding deposited beans and making the beanstalk ecosystem develop internally so that it is itself robust will make it much better to integrate with other protocols so one just example that makes it pretty there why it's beneficial to have beanstalk continue to grow itself and let other protocols add or integrate beanstalk over the next couple months gradually and there is something to be said for we do want to really start to have an organized integrations uh management and and operations and development front which is all going to hopefully be part of the q1 budget but when we think about the the potential danger of an integration where in stock isn't quite ready to support itself against larger attackers you just have to be careful for what the integrations look like so for example we've talked about integrating with a curve pool and potentially in order to compensate for the fact that if you have a stable swap uh style uh pool with bean and three curve the price of being is going to most likely get our much closer to a dollar which will mean that the beans or soil getting minted is much less than it it currently is and therefore there's some reason to try to integrate the liquidity in the curve pool as well into the minting algorithm but that opens beanstalk up to a potential attack where somebody who has a billion three curve could just add the three curve to the curve pool because unlike uniswap where you have to add equal parts beans and each or curve you don't have to add equal parts bean and three curve therefore you can uh basically if you assume that there's not a lot of liquid supply you can exploit being stuck and over causing over mint for a period of time just by adding uh you know an arbitrarily large amount of three curve to the e3 curve pool so uh there's there's a couple things that we've been thinking about as potential alternatives to a ulster beanstalk stability and b sort of make being stuck ready to integrate with other protocols but with regards to curve specifically i think beanstalk is probably ready for a bm3 curve pool but it doesn't even need to necessarily be incentivized and that will probably grow in due time but the uniswap being east pool is going to continue to grow because of the incentivized aspect of it and it will continue to be a strong oracle for the price of a bean but uh sort of a unique idea we've been working on internally on beanstalk farms and uh one of the proposals that's out right now to hire beasley he's already started to kind of work on this and think about this which is uh that we're going to allow hopefully or we're going to make a proposal that will allow a people who have deposited beans or deposited lp tokens to convert back and forth uh when the price is above or below the peg but only in that instance so what that means is right now the price is too high above the peg there's a ton like 30 million or more deposited beans anyone who has deposited beans can convert those deposited beans to deposited lp tokens get more seeds without even needing to contribute additional heat that will return the price to the peg and increase liquidity and that will increase stability and then you'll still have an increase in the bean price as reflected in the t-wap if the if the price throughout the season remains above a dollar but this should basically cause a massive increase in liquidity in the beneath pool and also increase stability drastically at a dollar so these are the types of ideas that we think can really take beanstalk to the next level and allow it to integrate really nicely with other protocols and in addition to just trying to set up like an internal organization and coordinate a lot of that development we've also been told that bean stuff may may start to be eligible for grants potentially reasonably large grants to start to integrate with other protocols that want us to integrate with them and that's very exciting and community members like george b have been really excellent at coordinating a lot of that and we're very grateful for for their efforts there and there are some things that can be done additionally internally like potentially providing an oracle suite depending on the unique applications like landing protocols and the like but in general bean stock and bean is more or less ready for integrations but the integrations will likely become more and more attractive for other protocols as being starts to oscillate tighter to a dollar which again we think is going to start over the next couple weeks as we continue to roll out pips that will improve the efficiency of the system and allow it to be leveraged while maintaining the price at a tighter and tighter peg got it thank you for that uh looking at the stage i think it's probably a good time to go for some questions rubisco i see you with your hand raised i'm gonna try and bring you up on the stage here baby proof please i think you might have to do this there we go all right what's your question hi uh ipo thanks for hosting and publius great job with everything thanks for answering questions and community hello thanks for communicating so well um my question is about the uh the auditing bits um i just wanted to kind of understand a little bit better the thought the thinking behind doing two at the same time because you know in the software world you hire qa firms to qa you know your software and and look at the code and help you you know figure it out and debug it but there could be a certain amount of redundant like if both of them are trying to do it at the same time they might just find the same issues and so there could be some inefficiency there if you're paying a lot of money for two different companies to be doing work that you know that might just be kind of unnecessarily redundant so that was what i was curious about so ultimately we're not particularly convinced that anyone on it is like a catch-all for security and so i don't necessarily think that the sort of implied through the implication of your question which is one audit will will be good enough uh or one audit is sort of enough to get us started is is correct instead ultimately we want have a bunch like a half a dozen or more high quality auditors review every piece of code that gets added to the beanstalk diamond before it gets deployed but getting those relationships started early is important and a there isn't necessarily a priority of getting one before another and p we felt like getting them both started as soon as possible would allow us to spend sort of a concentrated period of time on our end internally potentially implementing any access to issues that they discover all at once whereas it's difficult for us to block out you know extensive periods of time to do things like that in very short order uh multiple times in a short period of time so we didn't necessarily want to want to stagger them so uh it was a little bit of convenience and uh public as you may have more you want to add um yeah so just a few more things add on to your response publius the first of which is we spend a serious amount of time trying to find a quality auditor that we thought was good enough to one both um you know audit the the code of beanstalk into be sufficiently experienced with the eip2535 diamond standard that bean stock implements and we found that with um trail of bits they were incredibly competent in you know doing a deep dive into the code and umiska had previous experience auditing the diamond implementation in addition you know the services they kind of provide are a little different on this is going to do a lot more um you know providing testing suites as well as um you know gas optimizations and then in addition you know just the fact that we were able to find two great auditors that we thought were of quality at the same time means it could be a potential missed opportunity if we weren't going to do both right away okay rubisco any any follow-ups is that oh yeah i did sorry yeah kids were making noise outside um that that helps i think to some extent explain the question um if they're doing things that are a little bit different but i could also see that there would be value in a more iterative approach where you get the results of one audit and then implement the the results and then get another one on the the iteration that you just did be in in that way you might be like i was saying before saving some redundant work where they're discovering the same issues and applying the funds and the energy of the auditors to two different iterations where they're not just gonna deliver something that might be you know they found a bunch of the same problems so i know it's probably not as simple as that but it's not necessarily clear from where i sit in the community like what the details are of what they'll be doing that's different and how the funds will be kind of efficiently spent in that way so just uh we agree that at some point it would be overkill to have the original unaudited code audited all at once by five or ten auditors so we think that two is a relatively small amount to start with but when you talk about you know being concerned about redundancy if anything what we want is redundancy in this instance so what we're paying for is redundancy and specifically for high quality auditors to spend time doing things that are otherwise redundant because you could say look beanstalk is operating in the wild it was fine but ultimately none of that is redundant if if at any point there are any vulnerabilities discovered so we talk about where we want beanstalk to be three months down the road we want six auditors auditing being stuck and we want them all looking at every dip before it's proposed formally on chain and we want them all to comment on it sort of all at once because when we're trying to move product uh as as a protocol and as a development team at beanstalk farms the hope is that we'll be able to circulate the dip to a couple different audit firms that are all familiar with the beanstalk contract intimately and can give it a quick review and hopefully a quick seal of approval and then be ready for formal introduction on chain and ultimately the hope is that we can have beanstalk pay for auditors time in advance and have potentially other community-led proposals or other proposals not by beanstalk farms even audit it before they are uh proposed and so this is just the beginning of forming high quality auditor relationships and uh starting with two we felt like was a pretty conservative uh start especially given the rate that beanstalk is growing at this point in time that sounds great to me thanks for a good uh um high quality answer appreciate it i'll jump off the stage now awesome um just looking down remember if you have any questions or you want to ask anything feel free to submit something in the anime questions channel if you don't want to speak or you're not in a situation where you can uh or raise your hand down there and thank you so much for your question rubisco those kids are making noise gonna be making a lot more noise when these pods clear i'll tell you that but uh security seems to be a theme in this conversation obviously we've been taking some you know some measures with this fifth to improve it and then we also talked a little bit more about potentially sustaining attacks uh can you talk a little bit about attacks in general and what risks we are subjected to or maybe even if there have been attacks on the platform that we may not have been aware of obviously if you look at the price chart and we've talked about this before in previous amas there has been a situation where there was a situation earlier on in the history where i guess you can characterize it as an attack we've called it a pump and dump but have there been other types of attacks reflected in the market statistics so the most notable one would be simple mev or minor extractable value attacks on larger trades in the beanie pool but that seems to have decreased to some extent as uh the volume and the liquidity have increased which is good and then you talk about what are the exploits actually been attempted uh the the most notable you're correct is the original pump and dump that happened in the beginning of september where people thought they could deposit assets into the silo and quickly leave and dump at a premium before a season of plenty and uh they lost a lot of money so uh obviously we've talked about that whole pump and dump at length that don't need to necessarily talk about it any further unless people have specific questions but excuse me but the the there are two attack factors or classifications that you could generally group things into one is on the technical side the others on the economic side and from an economic perspective that attack in september was more of an economic attack and as beanstalk continues to grow it will become more and more resilient to economic attacks and on the technical that is the benefit of having auditors because they will bring deep expertise about uh all sorts of uh extensive histories of different exploits and attacks on smart contracts and open source code in general and that will hopefully bolster beanstalk against technical exploits so where are some protocols have really gotten gotten into trouble with something like with compound where they had functions that didn't do necessarily what they wanted them to do and that caused an increase in the supply it was not appropriate and beanstalk does have built into to every function effectively uh check on the supply before and after you start you you make your transaction and that makes it resistant to exploits like that meaning that no one can conduct a transaction where they actually change the bean supply unilaterally so beanstalk is designed to be very resistant to a lot of this stuff but we still feel like having beanstalk audited by again a trail of bits is a world class auditing firm so we're very excited to have them uh really get their hands on our code and we would just add lastly that the agreements that we signed with trail of bits for example actually includes uh extra uh time in addition to what they think the original audit will cost so that as rubisco is sort of indicating when there's a need to go back and re-analyze uh potentially an edited version or a revised improved version of the code base we've already allocated enough beans and contracted them to to be able to do that so we're very hopeful that these are going to be long-term relationships that will make beanstalk really resilient to uh both technical exploits mainly on the on in front but also on the economic front because as we said like the the main place where there's potentially wiggle room is when you have uh something on the borderline between tactical and economic great very thorough looking down at the stage i think we have a question from farmer joe's bean oporium emporium with uh two scrolls i like that we bring him up on the stage if there's someone that can do that i gotta get this uh this new feature here sorry there we go uh farmer joe welcome to the stage what's your question hello hello i'll just start by saying i love this project i'm very excited about the potential of the pod marketplace as well so i really hope that that gets through but um my question was just around i think i was inspired by the last question around security um and particularly the final comment there around key risks being the blend between economic and technical i noticed that um you know in this last i suppose you could call it bull run of bean uh there was an incredibly large um eth so that occurred and um i suppose just just to ask a question there is that something that the that the team has considered as um you know creating a potential risk for um people that um are behind that sower in the pod line does that does that create any risks at all and has this been thought about in the system design and uh yeah that's that's just something that i'm thinking about given that i have some pods behind that uh behind that solar yeah i'm just keen to hear some thoughts around that and if that risk is being is managed by the current protocol design well ultimately beanstalk has harvested over 10 million pods over the past week and that large seller has on the order of 10 or 15 million pods total over a couple different sows that have gaps in between and so candidly given the trading volume and the liquidity in the eath pool already we would expect the protocol to easily be able to handle that and over the past couple days it has been handling that type of volume so uh it does expose being stocked to some extent to an uh exploit if you want to call it that where someone could harvest in bulk and dump all at once but we feel like especially given that at harvest and dump then as a decrease in the pod line and basically give everyone a premium to buy below a dollar potentially uh we think that there's sufficient demand or or what we need to say is that the system has approached sort of a sufficient network size where there seems to be enough demand below a dollar and we think there would definitely be enough demand well below a dollar if somebody wanted to dump incent mass in an inefficient fashion we wouldn't be concerned about pinstock not returning to the peg relatively quickly no thank you for answering that that's that um that makes perfect sense and actually as i heard you say that you know it would be incredibly inefficient to dump um and presuming that the person is um you know like reasonably sophisticated they would be disincentivized to dump all of it at once because they obviously would want to maximize um you know the the um the price at which they're able to uh you know trade their beans for other assets so that would be a disincentive for them to dump as well so yeah thanks for answering my question that was all i had awesome thank you very much yeah i i also hope the you know the person who so 90 ethereum i hope anybody with 90 ethereum has is a rational actor and is acting rationally and obviously if you look at the statistics currently in terms of the silo and the returns the potential 12-month returns there i i do think it looks like a natural transition for those who are harvesting pods but you know at the end of the day you know this is not financial advice um i guess keeping with that theme publius of looking at but let the record show that one wallet uh so 228 e i believe yeah yeah yeah the ether scan is is wild uh it really opens your eyes to how much cryptocurrency folks really have um what's going on here abe bob is this expected thank you i just accepted i just accepted this is this an attack you didn't give me an on ramp there uh but but uh is that is that a yes i can answer that ask a question sorry i'm sorry i just brought you on there definitely come come ask ask away if you want okay no thank i appreciate your time i'm gonna go the open-ended one and and you know you've talked a lot about how you look at the world three months out from now and and i guess uh mine would be what you know it is it almost goes into like a a cliche startup question but what what does keep you up at night on those risks is it more of the economic ones or the technical ones uh and you know maybe paint a picture of of what's on your mind big picture over the next three to six months of the project well the answer is not one or the other it's both in the sense that everything that we add to being stuck whether that's another chain a layer two integrated dex the way we described we were thinking about integrating curve liquidity all of those things are both economic and tactical questions so it's not one or the other instead sort of the thing that makes beanstalk work is the marriage of economic and technical which a lot of this stuff is only made possible by smart contracts and decentralized settlement for example the first in first out online you know it's a lot harder to give a loan to a closed private entity where they'll say oh yeah you get in the back of the line and we'll tell you when you're up like how do we know that you're not going to let your friends cut us so the fact that this is all happening on a decentralized network uh allows all sorts of unique new economic structures to exist so we're very excited uh to be able to add new things to beanstalk and integrate have been stuck integrated with lots of protocols but it's not one or the other it's it's a combination that makes sense uh no i appreciate that thank you cool anything else to that point um hopefully it's about you know folks you get irrational acting things of that nature anything that could potentially cause economic issues from an actor when you look at the liquidity pool clearly i do think a lot of this velocity on the protocol side of things over the last few weeks has really been driven by the dramatic increase in liquidity that we've seen over the last few weeks is there any and we've asked for this analysis and some folks have put together some things but from your perspective publius in the liquidity pool in the lp what is the level of decentralization there you know when you know we're talking about the pod line obviously there are some folks that have big big chunks of the body line but when we look at the lp are there folks independently who may have you know 10 or 20 ownership in terms of the lp where if they were to just get up and leave one day it could potentially cause a situation so one of the beauties of the stock system and the overall structure of the mechanism is that it's designed to dilute everyone over time so even if everyone makes money their ownership of beanstalk should decrease as the system expands so in this case from the chain data it seems like a ton of the new liquidity that's been added has been sewers that perhaps only sewed and hadn't deposited any or much in the silo prior to this are now harvesting and using the tax efficiency from two and using that to effectively uh add lp and that is making the ownership and the silo and ownership of stock and ownership of liquidity more diversified and more diluted over time so that has only started to happen uh and we expect things to get even more diluted over time but uh already that has started to happen so when you ask about like where is this liquidity coming from the vast majority of is coming from her vegetable pods that are harvesting their pods above a dollar and selling half into lp excuse me selling half into ethereum and then adding that into the liquidity pool and doing that uh in a tax-efficient fashion so that's pretty encouraging when we think about getting stuck to a place where there's no one actor that can uh have such a large outsized effect on the protocol uh that process is well underway but will obviously get better and better and better as the protocol continues to grow you got it thank you that's that's really good to hear uh coming up on the hour here it's 8 20 and kick things off around 7 30 7 32 i think you know moving forward for the next couple of minutes uh obviously in the absence of any questions do you want to talk a little bit about you mentioned a giraffe dipsticks you know i took a quick look at it regarding adjustments to the soil and potentially de-levering or allowing the protocol to deliver in a healthy way do you want to talk a little bit about chip 6 and why it's important that the protocol is not over levered so and yeah we're not in a rush to go anywhere and as there continue to be questions we're happy to answer any and all of them so specifically there's there's a question of is the pod rate coming down which that is the general overall deleveraging of the system the padre being cadet level of the system is the best indicator of how levered up the system is at any given moment but ultimately the the expectation is that a pod rate will continue to come down if beanstalk continues to grow so aggressively but the fact that the pottery isn't coming down that fast even though there is excess demand for soil every single season that's an indication to us that the soil isn't being set as efficiently as possible and so you've been thinking for a while about the best way to do this and to some extent this was one of the things that we highlighted in the future work of things that could potentially be improved because figuring out how much soil to issue during the deleveraging process keeping in mind that the main reason to issue soil is to have a way to price debt and to figure out whether the weather should be going up or down uh it's very difficult to figure out how much soil is necessary on the one hand to make sure that you're getting an accurate reading of demand for soil meaning if you issue zero you know 100 soil like that's the transaction fees are going to make it difficult to get a real gauge on demand for soil but on the other hand it's it's not necessarily so you don't want to have it so that the soil is so much or so little that the pod rate either doesn't come down much at all or it goes down to zero very quickly so the solution that we came up with was instead of having the pot the minimum soil uh be a function of the minimum soil rate which which currently is hard coded as 0.1 percent of the total bean supply we figured that it should actually the soil this season could factor in the weather which which is effectively the ratio between the the soil issued in the pods that will be issued as debt on the other side assuming all of the beans are sewn in all the available soil uh but but the other thing it should factor in is the pods that were harvested at the start of the season therefore if the bean supply is increasing net net uh and you you're still having a sufficiently large amount of soil so that you can accurately measure demand for soil well then you can basically guarantee that even if there's excess demand for soil every season while the weather is coming down uh the most amount of pods that could get issued is such that the pod line doesn't decrease but again because the bean supply is increasing the pod rate will start to decrease so the pog line at most will sort of get locked in here as large as at its current length as long as there's excess demand for soil and that will allow the system to deleverage much more much more effectively got it yeah i mean these soil wars have definitely been getting uh getting pretty heated you know it's like people are sniping soil left and right it's uh you know it's like american sniper out here i guess maybe to even be more general about things you know why is it important that the platform does not operate with excess leverage what are the risks of operating with more leverage than the platform needs well leverage is at least in theory what would cause lenders to require a higher weather so the ability to to pay off debt and to decrease the overall debt level will have a positive feedback loop in this will create a positive feedback loop in the sense that it will lower the weather which lowers the cost of borrowing for beanstalk and so beanstalk will have more leg room to issue debt during any period where the price is less than one and it should be able to attract significant lenders at a significantly lower weather if the pod rate can decrease significantly so the debt level increasing will help beanstalk enter a more sustainable position and the important thing to note is that whatever ideal equilibrium is whatever that weather is where the price is going to oscillate regularly above one and the debt level will be around 15 around the optimal debt level uh it's unclear what that weather is but as beanstalk continues to oscillate uh you know a sort of circle around if you think about it in a two-dimensional space a circle around ideal equilibrium uh we expect this type of volatility but over over time we do think things will start to settle down so this is this is all natural and the beauty of the system deleveraging is that it should naturally lower the weather or the necessary weather to attract lenders and so that is what creates the positive feedback loop that at some point should end the debt cycle entirely get us back down to below optimal debt level got it super helpful so we're coming up on the hour i'm just uh i'm just scanning here oh dumpling what's going on you have a question uh no no i'm just hopping up uh you mentioned uh i could take things into overtime yeah if we if we go into overtime you know i do have a thing that just came up i may have to run a little bit after the hour but you know i'm obviously here and talking i guess you know looking forward i'm just getting for questions looking forward publius we're happy to we're happy to stay for at least another hour uh so we understand if you have to have ipo and chilling we appreciate your moderating the first half but uh you know there seem to be a decent amount of questions and uh right we're thrilled that people are so interested and have so many questions so we're happy to continue answering them as they pop up so definitely not sure if you if you had a question but uh feel free to ask away or otherwise we can bring someone else up here yeah i think dumpling can definitely help help moderate you know after i leave my my last or you know one of the questions on my mind which is something that we talk about at every usually every ama is looking at the community and trying to obviously we've seen many snapshots come up and the community has already been very much involved in stepping up and doing things but when you think about how the community can move forward in this new period of growth uh you know aside from obviously voting on bips and commenting on snapshots um what are the community needs at this point forward you know relative to previous points in the protocol so in the past we've sort of expressed if you want to work on being stuck in some capacity let us know and at this point we would expand that to say if you know anyone that you would like to have work on beanstalk you should try to connect us with them because at the pace being stock is growing uh we're going to ultimately have to rely on our communities to recruit high quality developers high quality operations people high quality integrations and partners in terms of other protocols that want to specifically work with you know work work to integrate beanstalk as an early integration a lot of that is going to have to be community-led so we're we're definitely trying to do our part to get the get the beanstalk farmers development team up and running and getting that infrastructure live but right now we've got half a dozen devs and we're trying to get uh beanstalk farms up to like two two dozen devs or so you know in the next month or so as we get this as we get this this budget for q1 up so our hope is to radically expand in stock farms and as we also mentioned hopefully at some point get enough people working on beanstalk that there can be at least a second independent development team working on being stuck and this is all part of the road to decentralization looks like so uh there's a lot to be done on this front but we feel like it's mainly going to have to come from the community and so people that want to get involved or know people that they want to get involved now is a great time and one thing that we think we're going to add hopefully to or we're going to make part of the proposal for the beanstalk farms budget is allow the people that are employed uh by or under contract we shouldn't say employed but under contract from the the q1 budget they will be able to sow their beans independent of whether there is available soil similar to how the fundraising mechanism for the audits work so we think that's a great way to get really high quality long-term attachment from developers and get them integrated into beanstalk for the long run and our hope is that uh through the community we'll be able to source really high quality developers and people on the front end to manage operations and communications with the community and things like that as well awesome thank you and you know the last thing i'll ask before i hand it over to my uh my good buddy dumpling here is in a way you're alluding to this by demonstrating you know you're hiring two dozen developers and clearly building a lot of infrastructure it obviously demonstrates a long-term commitment to this project and a commitment such you know such that it can go on to exist without the function necessarily handling every single thing that comes up when you look across the world of cryptocurrency especially d5 projects obviously there are plenty of things like reserve currency doubts that pop up like um that we've talked about and many others more more often than we'd like we do see projects that are commonly referred to as rugs or projects that on the surface look very very promising but it turns out that the folks are during the projects had very bad or malicious incentives um a bit of a controversial question but i think it's worth asking especially for some of the newer folks who are trying to learn more about the team behind this and where the project is going can you talk a little bit more about why it you know your long-term incentive or long-term pivot to the project and why that risk you know may or may not be a big risk here that's a great question and it's really important that people understand that even though at this point in time the community is still looking to us for a lot of guidance on where the protocol should go we are deeply committed to having pinstock get to a place where it is no longer reliant on publius and we think that that is fundamental to the long-term success of beanstalk but at the same time that's not that's not necessarily related to risk of a rug and with regards to the risk of a rug you would say hey from the way we've conducted ourselves from the beginning we've tried to put being stuck in a position where the ownership of beanstalk is this diversified decentralized possible and accordingly i truly believe that if today probably has sold 100 of our interest and have a negligible effect on beanstalk and that's a hypothetical because you remain a deeply connected and deeply uh invested mentally and emotionally in the long term success the protocol and furthermore just in terms of incentives being aligned we feel like there's no benefit in trying to cash out at all whether we're leading the way in some capacity or not because if being stock succeeds you know that's going to be amazing and that will do well for everyone who's been a long-term investor in beanstalk and we're not you know it's not a so a it's not like we have such a large uh share that we could affect the protocol or crush the protocol b we're really committed to the long-term success of the protocol uh separate from c you know over the next couple months or a year plus you know we're going to be actively and deeply involved in the development of beanstalk and getting it to a place where it's much much larger and much more self-sustainable so uh you know all you can do is take us at our word but we would do we we continue to do everything in our power to put beanstalk in the absolute best position to succeed going forward and in general and we would never take any action uh that we believe would be to the detriment of the protocol and you know that's as our promise to you got it um i i do think you know there are some resources as well you know obviously the the treasury their skin is public and there are some other things uh you know maybe there could be um you know some more economic analysis and why that that would not be a meaningful route to go but really appreciate the answer um yeah dumpling i do want to hand it over to you i highly highly apologize i do have to run however this has been obviously very fun i love hosting these and moderating these do you think they're very helpful for those listening who may have joined a little bit later this is being recorded so you will be able to listen to this in its entirety which i'll definitely be doing um afterwards and then of course if you do have stock there are some many proposals whether on the snapshot side or the vip side so you know hopefully this ama was a little helpful in in maybe helping you figure out how you're going to vote and i do recommend folks go and vote on some of these components but thank you very very much and look forward to listening to the rest of this later okay well thanks ipo and chill and publius uh and everyone this is really exciting to see these grow from you know 10 people 12 people all of a sudden you know 50 people this is really cool um and you know i see a lot of familiar faces out there but i also see a lot of new people so that's really cool to see um so yeah taking this into the second hour here you have the b team moderator but i'll try to get people up here as they raise their hands and uh i have one or two other questions and things that i might chime in with as well so um rubisco we have you up again let me bring you up okay rubisco round two uh we can't hear you rubisco i might have to unmute okay well until we have until we have you um one thing i wanted to bring up is [Music] we do have um the funding just came through for the uh merch project so anyone who's been a member of three meetings uh is now eligible for their green nft merch which is pretty cool so you can either dm me or you can send me an email at law dumpling at and then we can correspond there with uh with your merch and what you would like and i'm running that project so rubisco how's it going shoot we might have might have to bring up another speaker here can you hear me now yes i can hear you now great thank you not sure what happened there um yeah thanks for taking another question uh i wanted to go back to bip six for a minute and i have one uh short clarification question about something publius said in the chat earlier and then one like slightly longer question about it the clarification is you said that uh i think you said that the pod clearance time would be lower but then there was some confusion about whether you meant that that that it would slow down or speed up that's the that's the first quick question i think that expectation would be that given a similar amount of expansion the supply of beans we would expect the seasons to pot clearance to decrease apples to apples this will cause there to be less soil therefore it will cause there to be less pods and therefore it will cause the seasons to pod clearance to be lower okay got it thanks that that helps um then the the slightly more philosophical question maybe is uh when you were discussing kind of the rationale behind it and uh wanting to basically use it as a mechanism they could make it more efficient and stable in the long term it all made total sense to me but uh it also seems like there's a factor right now of just the viral nature of protocols and cryptocurrency where you know when people hear about you know it's the fomo thing when people hear about exciting opportunities and big returns and stuff heats up and the you know word of mouth spreads then that is a valuable you know sort of quantity to the the protocol the growth of it as well and so it seems there is some of that going on right now with with growth and excitement around it so i'm just curious how you factor that into a decision that might sort of slow things down or sort of decrease some of the heat in the system if if you even accept that that is what's going on right now um in favor of uh a kind of a more sustainable rational you know long-term picture so we would argue that more regularly that beanstalk cools off the better and so endedly the soil isn't going to do that much to have beanstalk cool off the short term it's going to help you in stock leverage over the next couple weeks in a more elegant fashion but we are thinking about uh potentially efficiency improvements to have beanstalk spend hopefully a lot more time closer to a dollar or on both sides of the dollar potentially and at least for a short period of time to have the system cool off and so right now you ask yourself well why is the price so high but the price is so high because there aren't enough sellers who are willing to sell their beans uh at a dollar at a dollar five and accordingly bean stock continues to increase the supply and the price is regularly coming below a dollar you know maybe once a day or so but it's not able to uh to when it's faced with such excess demand the current model isn't able to regularly bring the price down without radically increasing the supply which is not not helpful in terms of long-term sustainability so one one idea we've been thinking about is well where could we potentially introduce supply on uniswap uh in a way that isn't inflate inflationary to the bean supply and so currently the vast majority of genes are in the b in silo they're deposited beans and so we're thinking that we add the ability to convert deposited beans to deposit lp without adding additional ethereum that will allow a large percentage potentially of the 30 million plus deposited beans to get converted into lp and the rule will that will be enforced by the contract is you can only convert uh beans into eath without adding additional heat uh excuse me you can only convert beans into lp without adding additional eat if the price is greater than one and another rule we're thinking about specifically is uh you can only do it if the price is greater than one and the t-wap of the last season was also greater than one so there there these are still things that we're thinking about at the micro level on how to make the rule the best but in general allowing uh silo beans to be sold immediately when the price is above one should increase liquidity and should increase the ability for beanstalk to return to the peg at least until all of the currently deposited beans are converted into lp which uh given the current amount of beans in the liquidity pool and the beans in the silo that should be sufficient to cause a significant cool down in the system which we think would be very healthy at this point in time now obviously getting that bip out is still at least a couple days away given how we're talking about it and uh then it would be probably a week to pass so uh this isn't happening necessarily anytime soon but uh with the soil pip we do intend to propose in the next 24 hours or so hopefully that will cause a an increase in the rate uh at which the pod line is is coming excuse me the pod rate is coming down so being stuck will start to deleverage more aggressively and then in a week or two if we can get a convert dip going where you can convert deposited beans into deposited lp that should increase stability as well and we're thinking about that there should probably be a sister function where when the price is less than one and the t-wop is less than one over the previous season that you should be able to go from lp back to deposited beans and to some extent uh that does create some sort of uh uh like unique way for lp providers and specifically just depositors in general to provide some sort of leverage or increase or decrease the leverage of their liquidity of the system which is pretty neat so right now it would be that the system is a little highly leveraged on that on that spectrum but hopefully if if that rule gets implemented uh the high rate of silo beans to lpg beans will come down significantly i think that sounds like a great great idea personally uh i have a lot more in the silo than i have in the lp but part of that is because i just had a sew i just had a harvest and it just seemed easier to put it to put them in the silo instead of to you know add this eath or sell for eath and so i think that that might be where other people are at too and and that would uh help it bring it back to peg and it seems like a really elegant solution so um that's very exciting i think so um okay do we have uh some other questions bernoulli bean i don't mean to bring you on the spot but i think that you had a few questions that couldn't be brought up last week okay well in the meantime um maybe we could chat publius a little bit about um where you'd like to see the community development going um you know as far as you know looking at other successful projects um that are really community driven as opposed to frankly as opposed to product driven um you know looking and not to throw any shade at things like uh like rome dao or anything like that but um are there directions that you find um you know exciting that you'd like to to encourage um you know people to to go in or uh yeah i just wanted to see you know i know that we've had some discussions of uh second round of nfts and things like that but it'd be nice since we have so many new members maybe to talk a little bit in that direction definitely so we want community to have a ton of fun with being stuck and for some natural marriage between protocol and the fund that can be had for example the first genesis edition of the pnfts the only way you could earn one was by selling beans and that was greatly beneficial to beanstalk and attracted a lot of sewers and it seems like there's a basically all of the bft participants have now had their pods harvested which is pretty cool uh and and so the minted first dead cycle the shirts that's that's pretty cool in our opinion and fun for the community the volume has started to pick up on open c over the past couple days as beanstalk has started to pick up as well and so has the minimum price for the pnfts which is pretty cool so in general when we see uh the volume and the floor price uh all that stuff picking up on the nfps that's pretty cool we had been hopeful that there was going to be a winter bean ft uh edition but uh both of the pnft proposals that were made thus far failed uh one received a quorum but didn't receive a majority and the other received a majority but didn't receive a quorum so uh the holidays are still a couple weeks away and we're still hopeful that something might be done and we have calls with uh jww and have you been uh scheduled for later today to hopefully figure out what to do there um but you know at that along with many other things which are not directly protocol related to the to a large extent uh we're hoping to have the community really take the driver's seat uh and dictate where things should go and how things should look and operate and we're gonna try to focus more on the protocol side but in general i'll consider this like a call to action to anyone that wants to get involved on the community side in whatever capacity you feel like is cool let's do it you know this is there will be funds in the q and budget hopefully and uh we're excited to get things get things going in a more substantive fashion sounds great yeah i think there's a lot of exciting directions we could take this um and uh oh one quick other question for you is i think a lot of us were really pleasantly surprised at the uh the fall theme the kind of um thanksgiving style theme to the website when that dropped not to spoil any surprises but is there any anything on there i saw some some chatter in the discord uh you know in anticipation of a winter theme uh can you give us any uh any hints as to that so we're not going to ruin any surprise but uh we we too have noticed the uh fondness of the community of the seasonal seasonal website themes and you know we will hope to continue to deliver on that front uh is what we'll say so you're not not going to do something okay we have a new request here this is maybe the single area where we will not be full disclosure about the protocol just because it's fun uh and it's nice to have a little bit of a surprise but uh yes there there will be some sort of winter edition of the website wonderful okay we have a question from tb 3456 bring them up okay tb you're invited to the stage hi can you hear me we can take it away well thank you thank you for doing this i i'm driving so this might sound a little bit weird but um i am a new member of the community i am so impressed and so thankful uh for all the work um everybody's put together so far my question is about seeds and lp tokens becoming tradable um in i don't know exchanges or wherever how do you think have you thought about how the tokenomics for that kind of thing would work and what kind of potential that would have thank you thank you so much for doing this thank you so stock seeds and silo beans which are sort of the three parts of a deposit if you think about it when you deposit a bean in the silo you get a effectively a slip a credit saying you deposited these amount of beans in this season this is how much stock and this is how much seeds you have on the deposit and over time we hope to have both deposit itself and all of the assets in the deposit the stock the seeds and the silo beans uh tradable and fungible so there's a few minor unsolved technical details on the implementation for example currently liquidity uh you add an lp token to the silo your stock and seeds are awarded based on the being denominated amount of your lp tokens at the time you deposit but problem is therefore even within a season those lp token deposits are not fungible in that case so that's just one example of like a minor fungibility issue we're still working through but in general as the new stock farms development team starts to grow we hope to start to add fungibility and liquidity to all of those different parts of beanstalk which again are going to be the deposit slip for beans the lp deposits lip stock seeds silo beans and potentially even deposited lp tokens awesome um thank you just as a as a quick follow-up you know usually tokenomics works in so many different ways i think the way at least it feels like it's structured is that we're always minting new beans for example or minting new seeds so it's not like there's uh there is the the there's not let's say a limit to how much they will i will be kind of thing how so how do you see sort of like that aspect of it working or that's really not the purpose of it and you can always you know that that could be the thing is that's the purpose of making seats for example fungible is not that there is a limited amount and they go up and down in price kind of thing i mean how do you how do you see that kind of mechanism working in terms of uh you know yeah just just generally the the specifics of the tokenomics i'm just curious to hear any thoughts i know this is not probably something that we spend a ton of time on so the supply of stock and seeds is generally somewhat proportional to the supply of beans and when we think about how the structure of stock and seeds and silo beans becoming liquid the mechanism is effectively as we have an envision that there are going to be uniswap pools of bean stock and bean seed and bean silo bean and you'll also be able to deposit the lp tokens for each of those unisua pools in the silo and our hope is that that will create and a market structure where it continues to maintain that the only way to get stock or exposure to the upside of beans and bean stock is to buy beans first and that will preserve the decentralization of the stock system got it that's super exciting and thank you so much for taking my question okay i'm going to grab some questions from the ama thread here mute for one second here alrighty we have here from bean counter our solutions being considered to mitigate the gas wars that will result from very competitive soil or is competitive soil not seen as a huge issue for the protocol so competitive soil is a great thing for bean stock it is an expensive thing for people that want to try to get a piece of the soil and we understand that that's sort of expensive and someone in the discord did send like you stock is in the top 25 or was at some point in the top 25 of uh protocols that were burning uh eath in failed transactions which is pretty brutal but in general that is a function of structure of the ethereum network and uh there's not much we can do on that front but the fact there's so much demand for soil is exciting it is an indication that you know the protocol is heading in the right direction but unfortunately that does result in the spirit of the free market of beanstalk the excess demand for soil it does make sense that people have to be willing to pay a premium to try to get it okay that makes sense um there was another question there uh assuming that ether goes into a bear market how would that affect the value of um of of bean and if you could just talk about ether bear market a little bit definitely this is a an important thing to understand about beanstalk which is the main thing that will determine how beanstalk is affected is a the magnitude of the drawdown in the ethereum price uh b the speed at which the drawdowns occur and c and this is what's ultimately most important where beanstalk is in its growth cycle so if beanstalk excuse me if ethereum had a 80 drawdown when the bean price was at 24 cents or 40 cents or 80 cents or even a dollar when it was just recovering and there still wasn't a lot of demand for beans even at a dollar but that could have been really brutal for beanstalk but at the same time right now uh if ethereum crashed 20 over the next 24 hours we would feel very confident that beanstalk would still be at at least a dollar and you know over the past week ethereum did crash multiple times more than seven or ten percent uh in a very short period of time and in basically every instance beanstalk maintained its peg so over time we hope especially as beanstalk deleverages uh that will become less of a risk factor but in general that that remains a risk factor if there's a perfect storm where beanstalk is at a high at level at a bad portion of its dead cycle and then each comes down with the whammy which to some extent is what happened during the pump and dump where you did have a major drawdown in the east price which did make the the volatility on the downside even worse during the dump so uh beanstalk has experienced that to some extent in the past but going forward especially given the large amount of demand for beans above a dollar we are optimistic that there will be a lot of demand for beans below a dollar in an instance or eat has significant drawdowns and maybe maybe the only other thing to add is the idea to convert back and forth within the silo uh from lp to bean would also add a lot of resilience to a drawdown in the east price okay i think that really that really helps um i have a question here from burnt forest this is a follow-up question to making stock or seeds tradable what would the benefit be to having those traded seems like this would create an extra extra complexity to the system without necessarily benefiting the goal which is a stable coin so ultimately a more efficient market the more efficient the market is around bean stock and beans the more stable the bean price and so by having a diverse infrastructure and ecosystem of not just beans but stock seeds and silo beans that are all liquid and all are priced independently uh by the market and are all structured in a way where the main venue where the price is reflected is going to be a way that directly affects demand for beans we should create especially when you imagine what other protocols will be built out on top of not just beans but stocking seeds like the ability to borrow stock or borrow seeds there's a massive amount of stability that will come from complex financial instruments being developed on top of a complex ecosystem that is in stock when all of the acids are more fungible and and liquid and that's one of the things that really differentiates beanstalk from other stable chrome protocols which is it benefits from uh making everything liquid and that's reflective of the fact that the core economics are uh generally all designed to bring the returns that are currently uh like negative carry costs in the existing stable coins and turn that into positive carry costs okay i think that there's a good way towards answering that um do we have any people any hands up here let me get back to the questions we have a question here from divs saying what do you think about the idea of adding an option to choose to automatically lp when sewing i'm assuming they mean upon harvest so pun intended there the short answer is that is difficult because would require your account to be updated and transactions to be affected on the uniswell pool and that might have to happen across a ton of different accounts if there's a large cell or excuse me a large harvest and that could increase the cost of the sunrise function dramatically but when we talk about infrastructure being built out on and around beanstalk there's an opportunity for a smart contract they could be open source that could potentially allow people to easily farm their stock or uh claim and and lp uh harvestable pods when appropriate so uh that that does to some extent depend on your own security apparatus and infrastructure but a lot of that can be facilitated uh to some extent but it doesn't necessarily need to be part of the beanstalk contract itself if that makes sense okay we're looking for more questions now we have a hand humble farmer coming up again or not i'm sorry tb all right tv you're muted let's see if i can unmute you here thank you okay we can hear you yeah okay awesome i'm still driving um there was a question in the in the community and i'm just uh kind of bringing it up again i think it was about the price article and how it's uh dependent at the moment um on usdc in some ways you know we're talking we are obviously trying to be a a a decentralized stable coin and i think it's interesting the way we did it and i actually really like it but i think it's it's helpful to ask you know tomorrow that's a risk as well what if something happens to usdc um are we have we thought of alternatives and what we would do from the i mean i think that's just a helpful topic for especially new folks like me to understand um because it's not obvious when you first come in uh that that's how it kind of works but yeah thank you so much for taking my question again fabulous question one of the most important aspects of the beanstalk price oracle is that it is constructed in a way such that operators of ustc or any other centralized first generation collateralized stablecoin operator such that they don't have the ability to censor beanstalk in any way so a more simple implementation of the main incentivized pool would be being usdc but in that instance that would give the providers of ustc the opportunity to ban or blacklist the pool address and effectively kill beanstalk or kill that pool at the very least and beanstalk accordingly builds the main oracle or the main exchange where beans are traded and the price oracle gets its price is against ethereum which is the most uh decentralized uh asset on aetherium uh in general from a couple different aspects so the only exposure that remains to usdc is if usdc failed to hold the price its price at a dollar and to some extent that is true that that is a risk vector that exists and if usdc failed to maintain its price at a dollar for an extended period of time that would distort the bean price oracle but in such an instance beanstalk could easily pivot to another uh usd stablecoin that also benefits from arbitrage opportunities created by its collateralized nature and the reason we decided on usdc is because it appears to be of the the collateralized stablecoin options uh the most uh likely to actually have collateral backing it and offer arbitrage opportunities to regularly return the price to one and that is not to say that if usdc faltered in some capacity we couldn't migrate the main pool to a bean tether pool for example or even a bean dipole if necessary but a bean dipole would be sub-optimal in the sense that uh again we wouldn't want to have a bean tether pulled directly either but the question is now whether we're creating a price oracle based on the bean eath and then proportionally against the die eat or the tether eve pool so then indirectly you can get the price of a bean or the price of a us dollar from the price of tether or the price of die potentially so there's a lot of options here but for the time and you can also potentially go to multiple pairs so you could do an average of the usdc and the e tether pools to get a potentially more accurate price for a dollar so there's a lot of different ways to go here but for the time being we do feel this is a very robust and sufficiently robust oracle okay that's a great answer um i have a quick follow-up sent by stolen hamburger he says what if the sec clamps down on all centralized stable coins in that event what do we use as an oracle so there's a couple things to be said here one is even if they clamp down it seems to us impossible that there's not going to be any dollars issued on the ethereum network and all that is really the only thing that's required is for any of those stable coins to be trading on uniswap so sort of by definition if any of those stablecoins exist in any capacity we would expect them to trade on uniswap against ethereum and therefore be that wouldn't necessarily be a risk factor and in the instance where it is uh no this isn't a problem that we've spent that much time thinking about because we think it's uh not realistic as a as a risk or a large or high probability risk in the short term in the next couple of years but there's a lot of different ways we could innovate the price oracle further at uh will help being stuck at an accurate price for a dollar but you know this is already a great case scenario where if all the other stable coins have been regulated out of existence uh you know that hopefully means that beanstalk is the dominant stable point of defy at that point in time yeah i could see that being a huge opportunity for us um and there's always there's always a clever way to have an oracle like you said um jww we have you up on stage um yeah apologies i was again i think dumpling i was trying to raise my hand but uh it seems like an option is to jump on up we're eager to hear about uh nfts yeah yeah i think that that'll be a follow-up um after this i think we'll be shooting some stuff out in discord i think um but just on the in terms of the pricing article and switching it over publius um i think maybe even just to bring more reassurance to the team or even clarify um should that have to have to happen where um you know we decide that we have to convert over to working with a different um a different stable coin how quickly can we make that kind of a switch with the price article i'm just kind of bringing this up in reference to the recent bdp um because i i do think that's a reflection of how strong the community is and in terms of backing it making these kinds of conversions um and maybe it will help the community feel a little bit more assured um knowing that you know there isn't going to be like some kind of attack or some kind of failure in terms of uscc wouldn't be debilitating um you know given what we've seen the short answer is it would be trivial to change uh from the usdc east pool to the other east pool and if it were negatively significantly distorting the being price of the state of the bean system the system could be paused until a bip is is passed but candidly don't we don't expect the distortion on that price be significant enough and if it is where you have a real drastic change in the price of usdc where it's like it's crashed and it's lost its tag i think being stock in the community could respond within a couple of hours in theory thank you okay i have a question from bean counter i'm gonna read here and just just to close that out you know beanstalk can be paused immediately with the super majority vote and so if if was really hitting the fan if two-thirds of the stock voted to pause beanstalk when being stunk is paused the season the t-wop is one until being stuck is uncaused so you could potentially in theory immediately uh you know sort of pause being stuck and make sure that it wasn't exposed to whatever's happening to usdc and then get a fix up in the next couple hours and and then you know it would take 24 hours for the pip to pass okay thanks for that add-on um okay so we have bean counter here this has been raised a couple of times in the discord on the econ channel um this is in relation to the kind of the gas wars because of the scarce soil he's saying in periods of scarce soil you could bid to burn could you bid to burn ex stock per bean sowed get to soybeans based on the amount of stock they're willing to burn kind of dutch auction style this way gas costs are minimized and bots aren't rewarded so really this is just talking about if you if you could offer to burn your stock or your seeds in a bid for soil um this is kind of a economic proposal from bean counter can you talk a little bit about about that off the top of your head so ideas like that it's not to say that they wouldn't work or improve uh efficiency of pain stock in general they're a little bit complex both to implement and economically on their effect and in general we've tried to create being stuck in a way that is incredibly simple almost stupidly simple so it has very few things it has to consider and make an educated decision on and accordingly those types of especially complicated rules which don't actually benefit the ability for beanstalk to really maintain its peg it might just uh help uh existing uh silo members participate in the lending which again doesn't certainly wouldn't improve the efficiency of the lending market and if anything it would make money market less efficient because new lenders are at a disadvantage so things like that need to be very closely considered before the changes to the overall mechanism are implemented and instead we feel like minor tweaks like flight changes to the soil or uh or the ability to convert within the silo that are very pointed in particular but not general changes to the mechanism or what's appropriate at this time and uh it seems like we lost dumpling for a sec so uh oh here he is wonderful we thought we lost you darling so welcome back you did for you did for a second but i'm back um that's a very good answer i i hadn't even thought about that sort of insider's club aspect that you could have if if you could keep bidding because of your existing stock and seeds and new people would never be able you know it'd be harder for them they'd have to first go through the process you know i think that's you have to yeah you have to be careful about about these but it is fun to explore those things um so thanks bean counter for that uh uh sorry go ahead i was just going to say additionally like that type of change would require sort of like an auction period for each window of soil and that again would change the entire structure of the first and first out mechanism like these types of changes that people you know in general are very interested in what people want to change in the protocol but we just want to caution uh against making changes that are all of the implications of of which are not fully hashed out and considered and that is where we get into the realm of uh on the technical or the economic or both uh we can get into trouble understood thanks for that a quick question i had um that i've been thinking of since we've had a couple of missed quorums both in the bips uh and on the snapshot votes is and we never had before so i'm wondering if maybe all of the new new folks who have come to beanstalk you know aren't voting as much have we thought about any potential potential remedy to that if that keeps happening some things that seem quite like they have very good support like the bean market place uh looks like it might not pass and so that's that's the place uh pod marketplace yes of course uh so that's uh you know a potential concern and i wonder if you uh if publius had thought about that at all definitely so just to clarify none of the bits have failed to reach a quorum in the sense that because you can only vote for bibs either reach a majority or they don't but there's not necessarily a quorum because you can't vote against snapshot proposals are different in the sense that you can vote no so you can have a quorum which according to the this was defined explicitly in the if one which created the budget that quorum for that round of proposals for all of bitcoin would be 33 stock uh it seems like as stock continues to get diluted uh people are potentially less able to pay attention regularly to especially small allocations so for example for q1 thinking about introducing some sort of tiered uh quorum depending on the allocation of the proposal uh you know there may be a very low quorum or you know if it's on the order of a few thousand beans there may not need to be a a snapshot proposal at all because in order to have beanstalk farms really start to operate much more quickly uh you know it doesn't necessarily make sense for there to be a couple day proposal for every every small check that needs to be made okay i'm looking for more questions here if anything that's sort of in in line with the vision of funding independent development teams you know the silo funds them and then the development team is sort of independent there thereafter from the silo okay i'm looking on the ama board looks like we don't have too much more does anyone have any more questions to raise your hand we're closing in on the two hour mark so we understand if people are running at a gas here but uh we'll leave a few more minutes for people to come up with questions uh but just to kind of start to wind this down uh to make sort of a final call to action we're thrilled by the amount of people that were throughout this ama and popping in and out and then here for the for almost the entire ama and that is great indication to us that this community and this protocol is heading in the right direction and so uh it's very exciting to see many of your being pfp's and we're just thrilled by the community that is forming and if you feel like you want to take a more active role in the development of being stuck in whatever in whatever literally whatever role you feel like you can add the most value uh i can almost promise you there is a role and an opportunity available for you here and we are trying to grow the team quickly and aggressively with really high quality intelligent curious people that really care about the success of beanstalk and uh you know this is making sure that we're able to build a high quality decentralized beanstalk farms development team and then hopefully further expand having multiple independent development teams that's going to be essential to getting being stuck to a place where it is sufficiently decentralized and no longer dependent on on publius to sustain certainly and i think we're starting to have that really good energy with a lot of uh folks who are joining um and who have who have been here for a long time but maybe who are just starting to kind of uh step into roles so i think that's really exciting um okay rubisco have you been hey thanks thanks um i feel like i'm that kid in class it's like sitting in the front row raising his hand over and over but i am excited about it that kid always gets an a yeah all right um so uh yeah maybe just you'll get rubisco some of the merch hopefully i'll take it absolutely with that cute dog okay what's your question so um yeah guys just kind of like going off this the thread that you're winding up with with the the community energy and the excitement around it i'm wondering if uh publius can say anything definitive about the like the adoption rates lately um because it's kind of hard without doing a deep dive to get anything super specific about the number of people there's you know there's unique sews that you have on the graph on the website and then like dex tools has number of holders but it's a little hard to triangulate a more specific number so anything that you could say about that also helps us kind of spread the word and generate excitement to people we know when we can say hey you know things are really starting to take off well it is hard to some extent to give you a great estimate but one thing we would definitely say is if you look at data for unique sellers which is the last chart in the field section you can see that actually over the past a couple of days to a week there's been a major uptick in new sellers so when you see the curve start to go from like gradually increase increasing to what looks like exponential growth in the number of unique wallets lending beans to beanstalk that's very encouraging to us there's a number oh sorry i'll just uh ask a question um does the number of holders listed on dex tools for inter in instance um is that a useful number because it's like that might may or may not mean holders and sewers or they are mutually exclusive or people that are holding but not sewing so it's like what do we do with that number so it is um you know a little bit frustrating that you know that problem is only people who are holding beans and given that there is not much utility for actual the bean token right now that the number of holders that are being token are much lower of course than the number of uh you know farmers who have invested in beanstalk so um you know and we do not have you know as i'm sure you're aware we don't have a any graphics about the silo side of things so far now this data is available open to the public in our sub graph and if anyone is interested in you know doing any sort of dashboard or any sort of you know analytics on the subgraph we're happy to help anyone learn how to query the subgraph and get this data and on our end we will try to find um you know at least some way to give you guys an indication of the number of holders in the silo over time but you know as an example just for what's possible with the subgraph you can query all the stock by account and it'd be very easy to kind of throw that into a pie chart you can query all the deposited lp by account you can query pause by account and all these things are available in the subgraph and it's a little bit frustrating because um you know the community is generally just the the general crypto community is more familiar with um you know using june analytics to create these dashboards but because bean stock implements eip2535 um dune analytics has you know said that they don't support that standard yet so that's why we've kind of tried to you know take the approach of trying to create a subgraph um that has all this information to allow community members and farmers um the opportunity to try to build these dashboards using those so um you know just if anyone is interested in that please feel free to let us know we have a subgraph channel and you can start dropping questions in there thanks a lot guys i think that would be very exciting if we could get um you know of course i'm familiar with doing analytics from other projects and if we could get something kind of similar and get a community member to build it out that would be amazing and i'm sure we could get them get funding for that too so i'd be happy to help someone write up a proposal if they want if anyone here is uh is so inclined um okay well as i think we are closing in on the two hour mark thanks so much for everyone for coming and for staying around i'm sorry if i missed any questions but um we'll do another one of these and also i'm sure publius can answer a few of these if there are any lingering ones in the ama questions um any last words publius we would just kind of reiterate that even the explosion and activity in the discord we're not able to read everything and so if there's something that we need to see urgently hit us with a tag and that'll help us or shoot us a dm or something like that but uh we're really excited at the growth of the community and our commitment is to to you guys to making beanstalk just everything that that we hope it will be and really change the game and d5 across the board thank you all for coming and thank you all for being amazing amazing young community a nice have a nice rest of your day and last last thing i'd mentioned we do have one other event um the anyone who wants to come on thursday for the dow meeting uh there is a dow meeting is it published is it 8 30 yeah uh 8 30 eastern but it should uh based on the discord events it should adjust to your local time and other just housekeeping items there are some outstanding proposals the pod marketplace proposal which again is free to vote on is about to expire and the beesley hiring proposal is also live we would encourage everyone to vote on those and uh there are a couple books live also the soil bit will hopefully go live sooner we would encourage everyone to take a look and consider voting for those and we will talk to everyone soon okay thanks everyone you