Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #2

Beanstalk AMA w/ Publius #2

October 27, 2021

0:00 Opening Remarks from Publius • 9:15 Who Are Publius? • 15:30 How Much Control Over Beanstalk Does Publius Have? • 18:20 How Bean is Different From Competitors? • 30:05 What are the Biggest Existential Risks to Bean? • 42:40 Volatility of $BEAN During Growth Cycles? • 48:25 What Happens When Stalk & Seeds Become ERC-20s? • 56:30 Did VC's Get Special Benefits? • 59:00 Stalk and Seeds on Uniswap? Timing? • 1:06:20 Updating the Weather? • 1:17:00 Future of BeaNFTs? • 1:21:20 How will Beanstalk Scale? Integrations/Partnerships? • 1:29:30 High Quality Capital Entering the Protocol? • 1:34:00 Bean Merchant • 1:35:00 Biggest Things Publius Are Focusing On? • 1:43:00 New Discord Updates • 1:44:15 Decentralizing Publius • 1:47:30 Beanstalk DAO - Getting Involved

Ask Me Anything



Publius, the anonymous team behind Beanstalk Protocol hosted their second community AMA this Friday. Below is a quick overview of the highlights for those who missed it live. If you want to listen to the full audio, link is here.

What is the the vision for Beanstalk?

  • $Bean is a decentralized stablecoin that is not backed by any collateral.
  • Instead, it's backed by credit on the Beanstalk Protocol which issues the $Bean token. This decentralized credit model is radical departure from the collateralized model in a protocol like MakerDAO.
  • Because of this, the ability for the Beanstalk protocol to attract credit is the main driver of stability and of utility.

Where is Beanstalk now?

  • Beanstalk's ability to attract loans over the last couple of weeks has been a testament to Beanstalk's resilience.
  • In September, Beanstalk went viral on crypto twitter and went from trading at a $1 to having 6-8M ETH come and pump the price to $4.
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  • This capital then quickly left Beanstalk. Once the apes who pumped it realize they couldn't exploit Beanstalk for their personal gain, they immediately left.
  • This was a blessing in disguise. Beanstalk is resistant to the inorganic demand that broke ESD, DSD, or Basis Cash because they all couldn’t handle the fast growth on the upswing.

How does Beanstalk compare to OHM or MIM?

  • As per DeFi as usual, the space is moving at a lightning quick pace.
  • With regards to where Beanstalk fits into the overall ecosystem there's two separate angles.
  • First, in the long run, there's hopefully going to be non-USD currencies that are used throughout DeFi, throughout the whole blockchain world. Something like OHM is an attempt at that. Something like BTC or ETH could also fulfill that spot in the ecosystem. But the transition for the space to start to use an asset like that is a long one.
  • In the meantime, there is a major demand for USD on the blockchain. MIM is an example of an addition on top of the traditional MakerDAO model. The fact that MIM has started to be widely adopted is evidence for the huge demand for USD on the blockchain that is not being met. MIM is another source of supply for USD that can meet that demand. So looking at that, there's clearly excess demand for USD. And this is the fundamental problem that Beanstalk solves. Remember, Beanstalk is a totally decentralized DeFi Stablecoin that can print millions or billions of $BEAN’s without locking up any collateral.
  • Sidenote: A simple example of why the current shortage of dollars on the blockchain is causing a major decrease in what is currently efficient to use DeFi.
  • For example, in something like Augur or Polymarket, part of the problem in being a market maker is that there is a major shortage of USD on the Blockchain.
  • But because there's such a shortage of USD on the blockchain there are very high borrowing and lending rates. So If you’re a holder of USDT or USDC and DAI and I have the choice of lending out my stablecoin for 10 or 15% a year or I can try to do better than that by making a market on Augur. It’s rarely cost effective for you because the borrowing costs are too high
  • The opportunity cost that's related to the lack of supply of USD has made many things not cost effective.
  • Beanstalk is able to solve this precisely because it does not have collateral requirements
  • There is already $134 billion dollars of stablecoins in DeFi, and the demand is much, much higher.

What are the biggest existential risks to the success of Beanstalk?

  • Punchline: Beanstalk is still in an infant stage. It needs neck support, and head support.
  • If you compare Beanstalk to BTC for example, to get from here to the level of BTC decentralization will take a lot of effort & organization on the part of the community.
  • So the biggest vulnerabilities is that we're still in the middle of the first major debt cycle for Beanstalk. However, that’s bullish over the long term.
  • Beanstalk tries to get its level around ~15% but during debt cycles it can go much higher than that. The fact that the debt level is very high and continuing to go higher is an indication that we're still in the debt cycle. The real thing to look at is the "available soil" which thus far will only start to come down in earnest when there's a disproportionate amount of time spent above the peg instead of below the peg ($1). The fact that the soil has remained high means we’re still in the debt cycle. Until that soil gets eaten through, were going to stay in the debt cycle.
  • There has been some withdrawals since we returned to peg, but the withdrawl data has been consistently low since returning to peg.
  • What that indicates is that the stalk and seed incentive structure is working. And the fact that that incentive structure is working goes up linearly over time, anyone who didn't withdraw yesterday, is less likely to withdrawal today. And they’re more likely to stick around for the next growth cycle.

What’s next for Beanstalk?

  • Creating Utility by Creating Stability
  • Stability is here. The next thing to focus on is getting beanstalk incorporated into a variety of other protocols where there is utility for a decentralized Stablecoin.
  • If members of the community have connections at decentralized protocols that would be interested, they should try to broker those connections.
  • The team are inspired by the volume and the quality of the conversations that they're having with high-quality capital allocators who want to invest in Beanstalk. Because Beanstalk is for people, not for VC’s or whales, there is no “management company” or offer agreement to sign. Those investors will sow and silo just like everyone else.
  • How can community help?
  • Beanstalk is looking for high quality developers. If you are one, and want to work with an amazing team, reach out to me (Bean Merchant) or Publius directly.
  • Beanstalk also wants to pay community members for content. Educational materials, memes, etc. More on that soon but feel free to drop a note in the discord under #skillset-volunteer and let us know how you’d like to help.
  • Connecting with other decentralized protocols that want a totally decentralized stablecoin integrated is the next step. If you know people at these protocols, those connections would be very useful.
  • Lastly, if you’d like to become a Scholar of the Bean, you should join the Bean Scholars call this Tuesday 6pm PT. Publius will be teaching members of the community how to better explain Beanstalk to newcomers so they can answer questions and build the community knowledge.

Bonus: What's the ultimate vision for stalks and seeds?

  • The plan is to create Stalk:Bean and Seed:Bean Uniswap pools. You will be able to deposit LP tokens for the stalk bean and seed bean pools for more stalk and seeds.
  • Because this crates Bean:Stalk and Bean:Seed pools the expectation would be that you would very quickly run out out Beans very quickly to stake the stalk and seeds. And this would organically create a lot of demand for beans.
  • Now the stalk and seeds can earn additional interest instead of just collecting dust in the silo.
  • This will have positive network effects on the price of Bean and now that stalk and seeds are liquid you can have a market that reflects the future growth expectations of Beanstalk without that translating to the price of Bean. So if short term inflation expectations are decreasing you'd expect the price of stalk to come down. So they'd sell stalk for Beans, and as they do that, they won't necessarily sell them into ETH they'll sell them into Beans.
  • Beanstalk will not just have a current market in the price of Beans but stalks will be able to reflect the state of Beanstalk in the future.
  • Timing on Seed & Stalk liquidity: Making Stalk & Seeds liquid may or may not be deeply integrated with the layer 2 implementation. Community has emphasized that Beanstalk should be supported on other EVM compatible chains. And specifically to do it in a way that creates a network effect around Beanstalk. Team has already figured out what scaling to layer 2 will look like. Basically the idea is that stalk seed and beans can be bridged through Beanstalk from one compatible chain to another.
  • The price would still be determined by the BEAN:ETH pool on Mainnet. But you could use the liquidity on other chains as well. But still have the accuracy of the main price.


thank you ipo and chill for uh leading us and moderating today and uh thank you everyone for for coming and listening and we will do our best to answer any and all questions as honestly uh and openly as possible awesome well let's get right into it then i understand that there are likely people here that have been part of the journey in the beginning and there are probably people here that have just joined so in order to just level the playing field a little bit published why don't you talk a little bit about what bean is what the vision for bean is and where we are right now so bean is a decentralized stable coin that is uh non-batched by collateral but instead is backed by the credit of the beanstalk protocol which issues the being token so uh instead of using uh any existing collateral whether that's on-chain uh cloud or off-chain collateral uh beanstalk takes a radical departure from the collateralized model um and there are a lot of benefits that come with digital collateral which we can get into um but the fundamental aspect of beanstalk is that it is not issued by a centralized provider um and there is no collateral held anywhere to back beans and instead is dependent on the credit of the b stock protocol so the ability for beanstalk to attract credit is the main driver of stability and therefore the main driver of utility so you ask where we are um now and then the punch line is that we are currently uh having walked through or uh walk isn't the best uh word but we've uh as a protocol beanstalk has traversed through uh some forests over the past month and a half um but it's come out uh attracting a large amount of lenders and a large amount of loans and the ability for beanstalk to attract loans over the past six months of six weeks excuse me um it's been the main driver of the return to one and the ability for beanstalk to oscillate the price of one being over one dollar over the past couple of weeks so uh to give a little bit of a high level overview of what's been going on especially if you look at uh for example the all-time price charts uh in the middle of september there was a major uh period of short-term period of growth in beanstalk quickly followed by the beginning of the first major debt cycle which as we just said uh thus far beanstalk has been able to uh work its way through the debt cycle by consistently being able to attract lenders and attract loans so uh for completion what actually happened over the past two months or so is and we still don't understand exactly how it happened but it seems that beanstalk went viral on crypto twitter uh about six weeks ago and at the time was trading at a dollar uh with a two and a half million dollar supply or so um so a two and a half million dollar market cap and uh there was such a large volume of capital that came into beanstalk over a very short period of time uh six to eight million dollars or so of ethereum in just a matter of uh hours such that the price was pushed as high as four dollars the market cap was pushed as high as 40 million dollars um and this capital which came in in a very short period of time uh very quickly left beanstalk and one of the members of our discord said it best uh and we've been using this line a lot because of how uh apropos it is uh they said that when the apes who pumped it realized that they could not exploit beanstalk for their own immediate personal gain they immediately left so on the one hand that is very encouraging and very exciting to us that a lot of the incentive structures and the rules that create the incentive structures then beanstalk um worked sufficiently well such that the pump uh didn't continue uh indefinitely or and thus far it appears didn't continue to a size that was unsustainable um so the post-mortem it's not sure if it's a post-mortem since being stuck is alive and well um but the post-mortem of the pump and dump is that uh after all of the capital left and they came in and left over the course of around a week uh the price was as low as 24 cents and since that low uh beanstalk has been able to return the price of one being to one dollar by raising the weather relatively consistently to continue to attract new loans and new lenders so the uh when we kind of look at how beanstalk has performed over the past month uh the main thing to look at is given the order of magnitude of capital that flowed out of beanstalk um in and out of um when you consider that the market cap was as high as 40 million dollars but the maximum supply to date was only 25 million dollars we look at that and say uh beanstalk is resistant uh to the type of inorganic demand that created a unreasonably large growth in something like esd or tsd or a basis cash that ultimately made it such that none of those protocols had a chance to survive in the long run because they would grow too fast on the upswing we looked at what's happened over the past month with beanstalk being able to cut off that major growth cycle and then once the growth cycle was cut off and all of the that capital left a large percentage of that capital left feedstock has not been able to attract enough credit such that the price has started to oscillate back over one over the past uh almost two weeks now so that's uh a little bit of a high level synopsis on a high level summary we should say on what's been going on um and how we got here and just to wrap it up uh in terms of our attention and our focus and our mind share on like what how we spend our time and our focus and our energy uh whereas uh during the the major debt cycle which to some extent we're not entirely out of which we can talk about uh how to gauge where we are in the cycle uh in this conversation but regardless the our mindshare has largely shifted to uh looking ahead and starting to think about uh how being stock goes from where it is today which is starting to establish itself um as a protocol that can regularly return the price of one bean to one dollar uh into uh the protocol that supports the ubiquitous stable point of all of diva so this is a very exciting time for us um those are obviously very exciting thought exercises for us to get to perform um and we're very uh we're very excited about what is to come and the work that needs to get done on um but generally what has happened over the past six weeks has been very encouraging to us and has us uh incredibly excited to build a strong community around beanstalk that will continue to build the everything around it that uh will fall into place as as beings start to become adopted as the stable point of defy awesome thank you so much for that that's super super descriptive even just looking at the beam price chart and thinking through all the you know the timeline that you talked through it's it's you know the story is very very clear and even now looking at that stabilization the points you were making about how the protocol really has kind of stood the the short test of time a short turbulent test of time very very clear one thing you know we have a couple more people in the room so if you just joined thank you so much for joining this will be recorded so in the event that you do have to leave you can come back and listen later we're going to run about two hours and towards the end you know to publish this point about community engagement and involvement for those who do want to stick around and essentially raise your hand or learn you know what work you can do uh we'll have some time to do that as well probably i think it would be a good idea now especially because you know we have some more people in the room do you want to talk a little bit about you know who who is puglies is this the illuminati um you know what is the team behind this project and what would you like folks to know about the team yeah so uh explicitly uh we are everyday peoples like yourselves and uh we are uh we're a group of friends first and foremost that are highly encouraged by the type of change that uh cryptocurrency uh blockchain uh but more than that a whole infrastructure developed on uh public private key cryptography really presents to us a vision for the future that is much more encouraging than you might otherwise see looking at the daily news and so back in thanksgiving around thanksgiving was last year we were hanging out catching up over the holidays and discussing you know the world and it was the the usual chatter you know one of us doesn't like our job and uh wants to do something more interesting and we were just brainstorming if we wanted to work on something together what would that look like and at the time esd had been kind of blowing up and we took a look at it that that evening together we read the white paper uh we worked through it and we had kind of two conclusions one was very clearly the market is indicating that there's a high level of demand for a decentralized non-collateralized stable coin and that was very much in line with our general uh understanding of where crypto is at as an industry where scaling is probably the biggest uh hurdle um but then very shortly thereafter is the need for a decentralized dollar uh with economics under it that actually make using protocols like auger uh cost effective and we can get into exactly how that works at some point but the second conclusion we had was that we could do a lot better and so originally the idea was that we would take the esd code and our economic model and make a minor although substantive changes uh to fix a lot of the tragedy of the commons issues that were evident in esd um and dsd and the like um but ultimately that's because uh we have too much ego uh too much hubris or we just take ourselves too seriously uh we ended up kind of throwing out the the minor change idea and we decided to build in stock totally from scratch um so that that required and then when handed hand but the requirement for a total uh rewrite uh of a protocol from scratch uh was largely the result of a bunch of new uh economic incentive designs we wanted to add on to be in stock and it ended up going from what we thought would be a couple of months of side work um ultimately you know this is now all of our full-time jobs and we ended up spending around nine nine months or so before we pushed you know in the beginning of august to mean that uh to make this thing uh have the best possible chance to succeed that we could possibly give it um so just you know from the start there was no pre-mine uh no pre-sale no early investor access uh the first hundred beans were minted when the contract was deployed and 100 beans is what the sunrise function award starts at so really in line with the rules of the protocol and then since then 100 of the new bean supply has been created according to the algorithm as it's defined in the smart contracts so uh you've been doing this uh for almost a year now uh we're approaching 11 months and uh thus far uh it's been the journey of a lifetime and we're incredibly grateful for the opportunity to continue to work on beanstalk and our hope is to inspire others to start to work on beanstalk as well such that in the not too distant future beanstalk is not solely reliant on publius um but instead is supported by a decentralized community and we're very encouraged uh that we're starting to see the beginnings of that transition take place and it it uh gets us very excited that's great and to that point you know we can get into this in a few minutes about competitors and other protocols but in general just as i'm sure other folks have this question how much unilateral control over the protocol or the platform does publish have and then the reason i asked this question and you alluded to this a little bit earlier saying you didn't take initial an initial investor group the beans are minted according to the contracts just in terms of what can change at a moment's notice how much unilateral control does publius have does it have any yeah so uh the deployment address uh which deployed the smart contract on etherscan you can search it uh it comes up as p stock contract deployer i believe um that wallet address at this point in time still has the unilateral ability to modify pinstock and if we go back around a month or so ago uh there was a two separate instances where we pushed uh minor changes to the smart contract directly uh circumventing the the bid process uh specifically because there were minor uh errors in the code that were resulting in a small misallocations of beans um which in total the order of magnitude was around 5000 beans or less and those are the types of things that at this stage of the game because pinstock is so new and has yet to be audited and we can talk about how the audit process is going um we felt in the at launch that it would be meaningful from a security perspective i have the ability to fix certain things like that at a moment's notice and the way that the contract uh and the governance process and being stuff is composed at any point in time any member of the community could propose a bib to remove this ability from the deployment address to remove this ability from publius and nobody else does at some point in the future we intend to uh make such a proposal um but that would that would likely come at some point a little bit further into the future um certainly once being stuck has been audited after that um that conversation can start to be had a little bit more seriously um but in the short term that is the only uh control that exists on top of beanstalk and we're obviously committed to being as transparent about that as possible got it okay so moving along you mentioned a few in the origin story of beanstalk you had mentioned you had looked at the space let's talk about the space a little bit and some of these questions obviously come up in the afa when you think about your competitors and competitors may not even be the right word but when you look at the space for not just stable coin but generally these reserve type protocols a couple of names come up like mim or ohm there may be others when you look at space maybe talk to the group a little bit about what does the space carly look like and relative to some of these folks you know how does being look sure so very usual uh the general overview of the space is that it is moving a million miles an hour uh trial by fire and all of that is very uh conducive to the industry moving at a wide and quick pace um but there's a lot of also damage that is done when you move so quickly um now with regards to where we fit into the ecosystem or where beanstalk fits into the overall ecosystem um there's two two separate angles here the first is that there is certainly in the long run hopefully going to be non-us dollar currencies that are used throughout d5 used throughout uh the general cryptocurrency blockchain world um where there isn't necessarily a reliance on the us dollar and something like ohm uh is an attempt at that um something like bitcoin or ethereum could end up filling that general use case of some sort of unit of account that is sufficient uh for the members of the ecosystem to use it as such um but the transition uh for the space to start to use an asset like that uh is a long one and so the second angle to come at this is in the meantime uh there is a major demand for u.s dollars on the blockchain and we can also if it would be helpful talk about the transition from a us dollar centric d5 system to a non-us dollar d5 centric system and how that would affect pin stock at some point in the distant future um but at least in the short term the there's very clearly a strong market demand for us dollars and so mim is an example of an innovation on top of the traditional uh maker dow uh cdp model um which is the epitome of things move really fast in this space and the fact that men have started to be widely adopted uh is more evidence that there remains a huge amount of demand for u.s dollars on the blockchain that is uh that demand is not being met um and name is another source of supply of u.s dollars that can meet some of that demand and so it has started to be uh more widely used and adopted so we look at that and we say well there is very clearly still excess demand for us dollars and this is the fundamental problem that beanstalk solves that none of the other uh current implementations that are out there like a mim actually do solve and the specific issue we can go back to the auger example i highlighted a few minutes ago which is let's take a stupid simple example of how the current shortage of dollars on the blockchain is causing a major uh decrease in what is currently practical or cost efficient to use d5 for so in the case of something like auger which to us remains one of the coolest ideas uh to date in cryptocurrency like the ability to make a and anything you want uh is is a pretty powerful idea um and as someone who entered the crypto space when augur was being built and hyped up you know we ask ourselves well why isn't augur being used uh in any significant capacity and in our estimation or our understanding the main reason for this is that there is a major shortage of u.s dollars on the blockchain so currently if you want to use auger you have to either use ethereum or use a dollar stable coin and if you use you may be able to use other currencies but the problem with using any general currency is the same as applying uh using ethereum i'm just not upstate on the latest currencies you can use on author but if you use ethereum uh at the very least unless you're comfortable going along ethereum while you're making your markets you have to hedge the etherium exposure and more than that which makes the market very difficult to make in ethereum if you are making a market on let's just say the nfl football games this sunday um if i am a customer and the market is denominated in ethereum i may not be interested in taking on ethereum exposure in the meantime while i'm making my bet and certainly uh when we think about how this uh affects the general ability to attract or build a market uh or multiple markets using ethereum it makes it such that the demand for those types of markets uh is usually not enough to to make it an effective market to make um whereas and the main problem being the volatility of the underlying asset that the debt is denominated in whereas if you use a u.s dollar now you don't have the same volatility um but this is where the economics come in and become a problem because uh currently there is such a shortage of dollars on the blockchain um that has led there to be incredibly high of borrowing and lending rates for usd stable points and so if i i am a holder of us usdc or usdt or guy and i am interested in making a market on auger for the nfl games this weekend i have a choice we can either lend out my stable coin for 10 or 15 a year or i can try to do better than that by making a market on occur and when you factor in all of the fees for borrowing uh and the fees for transacting on ethereum now it isn't just that you have to make a market where you know if you're right 51 of the time and wrong fit 49 or your your uh you have even a marginal uh profit in the markets that you're making um that no longer becomes cost effective to make that market specifically because uh the borrowing costs are too high and so the opportunity cost that is introduced by the shortage of supply of u.s dollars um is what has largely led to many of the use cases for cryptocurrency and for decentralized finance not being cost effective from a purely economic perspective to make and to restate it the main driver of the shortage of supply is that the the requirement to use collateral makes it such that you basically can't get enough dollars or dollars worth of capital locked up anywhere in order to meet the demand for u.s dollars on the blockchain and so the way that beanstalk goes about uh radically transforming uh e5 and what makes sense within d5 to use is it totally changes that relationship between supply and demand and therefore also changes the relationship between using us dollars on the blockchain so whereas in the instance where there is a shortage and anytime that you're not actively making the market you don't want to hold the us dollars um in something like beanstalk which uh state explicitly if you hold beans at any point in time where you're not actively using those beans you can deposit those beans in the silo and earn passive interest you know monday to saturday and then on sunday make your markets or however it may be in the meantime you're collecting passive interest um instead of having to pay it for holding on to your us dollars and so when it comes to uh the actual dynamic in just the author market example um instead of having to pay to borrow the us dollars to make the mortgage um now with one initial investment to purchase the beans that you're going to use to make your markets in between making the markets uh you can you can passively deposit your beans in the silo earn interest on them and then whenever you need them to make your markets you can withdraw the beans again from the silo and obviously this becomes even more practical to do once the withdrawal time is brought down currently it's a day which makes their which creates a little bit of friction to do that but uh over the next couple of months uh you know there are our expectations in the near future to propose a bip that will lower the withdrawal fees over the next couple months as being stock continues to demonstrate stability so that will further increase the utility of using beans and these are that's just one example but this plays out at a million different levels um within the d5 ecosystem of how currently the shortage of u.s dollars created by the collateral requirement uh is the main inhibitor to d5 really taking off and everything that is even moderately cost effective to do um will start to be done um and the main reason none of it is currently cost effective is because of the shortage of supply of us dollars on the blockchain and beanstalk is able to solve that because it doesn't have collateral requirements great thank you um look you talked a lot about you know not to boil down all that into two sentences here but you talked a lot about the bullish factors is what i'm hearing right there's huge white space we're talking about the market for us dollars there's also a shortage where you know we're able to provide something potentially lower cost um talk a little bit about the other side of the equation so what are the biggest existential risks to the success of being watching football guys in the room we're just on standby a little bit publicly just let us know if you're back sorry my my uh my mic got got uh messed up somehow oh no no yeah i can i can hear you what was the question apologies no no no no worries we so we just talked a little bit about you know you give a great example about how all the bullish factors seem very clear right we're talking about the market for usd as a whole which you know relative to being market cap is obviously very very high a lot of white space what is the other side of this equation look like so when you think about the largest existential or even execution risks to the success of being protocol moving forward what would you say those factors are sure so we we believe in leading with punch lines and being as open and honest as possible so the punch line is in stock is still in what we would consider like an infant stage and when you're dealing with an infant they need a lot of neck support and a lot of head support so at this stage of the game uh beanstalk is still uh in need of a lot of support um and if you can if you compare bean stock to the gold standard which is bitcoin which has been through the wrangler has a massive uh truly decentralized uh community of participants and contributors that don't all agree with one another um and obviously satoshi is not a active participant in in bitcoin uh to get from here to there is a major uh and obviously that being the gold standard if if being stuff gets to that level of decentralization that will be a major achievement um getting there is totally within reach it's just going to require a lot of effort and organization on the part of the community so to answer explicitly what are some of the areas that are currently the biggest vulnerabilities uh number one is currently we are still in the middle of the first major debt cycle for beanstalk and on the one hand the fact that it has been such a large cycle is incredibly uh bullish in the long term for p and stock uh if it can get to a place where it can go through another major debt cycle so if you think about the way that beanstalk is designed um it has three different debt levels um currently the excessively low debt uh optimal debt uh and excessively high debt are 5 15 and 25 percent um and so beanstalk tries to keep its debt level around 15 um but during the death cycle the debt level will always go potentially much higher than that and so when we try to analyze the overall health of beanstalk and the current state of things uh that that level is one of the best indications of where we are in the cycle so the fact that the debt level is very high um isn't continuing to go higher um is an indication that we're still in the cycle part of things and if you want to be more explicit or more correct with your analysis the real thing to look at is the available soil um because the available soil which thus far has still been hanging out close to maximum soil rate will only start to come down in earnest when there is a disproportionate amount of constant above the peg um versus below the peg um and so currently the fact that even though the price has started to oscillate around one on the soil has remained high uh that means that we are still in uh the debt cycle and until the soil has really been beaten through um almost entirely we are still going to be in a debt cycle so if at this point in time the number one risk to beanstalk is that if you know 10 million dollars of capital left being stopped again uh over a couple of days like what happened a month ago um it remains to be seen whether beanstalk would be able to issue uh enough debt and attract enough lenders to issue that debt uh to bring the stock back to one and even if it could do it again um maybe you couldn't do it a third or a fourth or a fifth time and at some point you know you do have you enter a death spiral but this is one of the main reasons why beanstalk uh focuses on not just keeping the price at one dollar but also focuses on returning the debt level um less than 15 such that the next time there is a major debt cycle um beanstalk has already paid off a lot of its outstanding obligations um so it's in a great position to go through a debt cycle so until we if we lay out based on the current state of the system uh and that definition of the dead cycle that we just laid out there is going to be a significant period of time between here and there and there being when the debt level is back to around 15 um so number one uh risk uh from an economic perspective is that between here and there which may be a couple months there's another major crash in these segments now that may make you nervous um as it should um but based on the rules and the incentive structures created around beanstalk and what has transpired thus far um it seems to us uh increasingly unlikely that that type of major outflow from beanstalk at this point in time is possible um it is possible in the sense that it could happen um but it would make sense based on what we've seen so far so what we mean by that is because means has been back at one almost two weeks now um and we've seen a slight uptick in withdrawals since beanstalk has been back at one indicating that there was some capital that wanted to leave once we returned the peg um in general the withdrawal data um has been relatively consistently low um since that initial uh bump after that first pump you know what that indicates to us is that two things one the stock and seed incentive structure is working uh to a significant extent um and two the fact that the stock and seed incentive goes up linearly over time makes it such that anyone who didn't withdraw yesterday has less is less likely to withdraw today so every day that a beanstalk hangs out and oscillates above and below one and someone doesn't leave the system that makes it more likely that they're gonna hang out uh for the through this growth cycle as we get out of the debt cycle and so just looking at the data um we feel pretty confident and comfortable that the vast majority of capital that was going to leave bean stock um before we start to see real growth has left um and in order to gum bees off if you're not already in beanstalk you need to buy beans and bean stock is designed such that anyone who wants to come into the system has a very hard time to do that in a way that is cost effective for them unless they do want to hold beans stocking seeds for a longer period of time which is exactly the dynamic that we saw play out uh about a month and a half ago and you may then ask well why can't that happen again and someone just tried to kill being stuck by burning a couple million dollars um the main reason that is very unlikely to happen again uh is because of the size of beanstalk at this point in time relative to the size of the liquidity pool uh and the debt level so uh one of the main reasons why uh the growth and debt cycle was particularly large uh even you know if you would say within the context of other uh similar stable coins it was much smaller um than esd or dsd for example but in our estimation it was still larger than optimal um was for a few reasons the first is that there was basically no outstanding debt or no pods um last time that this pump happened and so all of the supply and beams that might have been sold into the pump were locked up in the silo um currently because there's so much unharvestable ponds uh if someone were to come in over a short period of time and try to pump the price um there would be a large amount of pods that could come harvestable and sell into that and so you're not going to have nearly the type of price growth that you we saw six weeks ago because of the outstanding debt and furthermore because the liquidity as a percent of the total supply of beans is also much less than it was during the first pump the rate of inflation will also be much lower even in the instance where someone tries to attack beanstalk by pumping it too much so from that perspective uh you know there's a there's a lot to be said for the current state of beanstalk is much much much more resilient um than it was a few months ago a few weeks ago and that doesn't even include the fact that currently it has demonstrated that it does have the ability uh to bring beans back to one um it should be a major driver of a future demand so uh sort of creating utility uh by creating stability is what will ultimately lead to adoption uh and adoption is what will ultimately get bean stock out of the debt cycle so one of the major uh things to focus on from the community perspective over the next three to six months is getting beanstalk um incorporated into a variety of other protocols where there is utility for beans got it and you know as we're moving more into the the analytical elements of the protocol let's focus a little bit more on some of these some of these very important details that talk about the protocol features so we talked a little bit about the dollar right obviously the dollar peg is important for a stable coin when we look at the history of the protocol over the last few weeks there have been sustained periods where bean prices below a dollar and then now recently there have been some periods where for for longer times it's above a dollar as we scale so as this continues to grow how can you or how do you think about how bean moves around the peg so is this as we go from let's say a 20 million market cap to 200 and then let's say 200 to 2 billion is there a way that you can either project or how do you think about the price of bean as it dances around a dollar so this is a question that requires a high level of speculation and we're happy to speculate uh at least on this topic uh but take our answer with a grain of salt as uh market participants are ultimately going to be deciders of how the how the market works on a to minute second by second basis and uh you know these types of predictions are incredibly difficult to make as the structure of markets are also often determined by a lot of factors that are not just purely analytical um nonetheless the volatility around beanstalk um probably decreased on an absolute basis um meaning that the ticker price uh just for example if we compare it to what's happened over the past two weeks or so they're more or less the prices stayed within the 0.95 to 1.05 range um our expectation would be that as being stock grows as more people start to think of a bean as a dollar that that range will start to be further restricted um so it's very hard to give a sense of order of magnitude how quickly does the price of one beam stay 0.99 to 1.01 um impossible to say exactly but the general idea behind how this will work is that the more times that being crosses the peg um stronger the expectation that the price will cross the peg again at some point in the future that expectation creates an arbitrage opportunity or anytime the price is above one you have an expectation that at some point in the near future will be below one it makes sense to sell above one and then vice versa to buy below one and so as the price starts to or continues to oscillate over one um at arbitrage opportunity gets created so based on current market data and how bean stuff has been trading seems like this is still at the very beginning stages of happening obviously with like two weeks of costing the price over the peg there isn't a strong expectation that that will happen again immediately or soon but the expectation is increasing so as that expectation increases we would also expect the range of trading of being to get tighter and tighter now it's important to note that the way that the bean supply is changed is a function of price but it's also a function of the depth of liquidity of beanstalk and specifically the bean eath pool and so another thing that we would expect as beans becomes more adopted and as the return for providing liquidity becomes more apparent um we would expect the liquidity in the b heath pool to also start to increase significantly and that has a complementary effect on the dampening of the price because the more liquidity there is uh the more volume uh can be traded with having a less effect on the price um and so between those two factors higher liquidity and higher uh higher degree of arbitrage around the dollar we would expect the range to tighten and tighten and tighten and tighten and tighten over time um but it's very difficult to make a prediction as to the rate of tightening specifically got it okay that makes sense we would we would imagine this would stabilize over time but of course you know this is this is a market instrument um we're coming up on the the one hour mark i'm looking at the audience and i'm seeing around 40 people so looks like we have some new entrants if you're just joining uh thank you so much for joining this community event it's been great so far we talked about the protocol origination the origination story and now we're getting into more of the details around some of the instruments within the platform like the peg this will be recorded so for those of you who join late and want to catch the beginning of the conversation you'll be able to listen to that and um you know around over the course of the next hour we'll continue to go through questions i'm obviously just asking questions on my mind but also looking through the questions in the ama questions thread so if you do have questions and don't want to necessarily raise your hand here and say it out loud feel free to dump those into the thread and i will pick those out but moving along since we you know we have about another hour before we may break out into some community conversations let's talk a little bit more about i guess this idea that you mentioned before publius that you know obviously in the silo folks get both seed and they get stock the seed obviously allows or incentivizes them to stick around and the stock determines you know how much of new bean supply they get during during new mints can you talk a little bit about the future of stocks and seeds there's been some chatter in the chat about them being tradable in the future what's the ultimate vision for stocks and seeds now this is a question that puts a smile on our face so stock and seeds becoming tradable is going to be a major step to taking beanstalk from what it is today to what it can become in the future um so there's economic uh a lot of economics here that can try to lay out a large portion of it uh we're happy to explain as much as people want how we see it going um but the long and the short of it is uh our rx let me lay out the plan and then i can break down how this works in an economic fashion so the plan is to create stock bean to seed bean pool pool uniswap pool um and similar to how you can currently deposit uh lp tokens for the bean eath pool into the silo in exchange for stock and seeds um you will also be able to deposit lp tokens for the bean stock and bean seed pools into the silo in exchange for more stock and more seeds now at first glance you may say doesn't that make it such that stocking seeds can just be infinitely amended and that type of inflation would make them worthless the answer is no um specifically because uh we were proposing or this idea would consist of creating a beanstalk and bean seed pool um our expectation is that you basically very quickly run out of beans to use to lp with the stock and seeds and therefore it will be a something that creates a lot of demand for beans so how does that work um let's take a very simple example which is i take i have a bean i deposit the bean in the silo in exchange for one stock and two seeds i now have a deposited bean at one stock and two seeds uh this model or this iteration of how stock and seeds would be liquid um similar to how you can currently convert a deposited bean and match it with ethereum one being worth of ethereum uh and get b lp tokens that are deposited in the silo we'll be able to take a bean deposit that being and then convert that deposited bean into bean stock and bean seed liquidity pool tokens and so you can imagine uh and to some extent you have to make estimations on the price of stock of seeds but the arbitrage opportunity introduced by the fact that anyone can buy a bean deposit a bean and then get stock and seeds basically makes it that the price of uh one stock plus two seeds has to be less than a bean um and so with that in mind uh the amount of if you do this once you get additional stock and additional seeds um you now have stock and seeds that are liquid that you can lp if you want to lp again um but you're now out of beans and so in order to cycle again you actually have to buy more beans in order to lp them and so from a macro perspective uh the incentive to deposit your stock and seeds into the liquidity pool instead of having them just sitting there in your account um should also create more demands for beans on top of uh creating a use for you know we would expect the vast majority of beans that are currently deposited in the silo collecting dust uh would immediately start to be used to offer liquidity for stomping seeds um and start to earn additional interest um so that is uh just kind of the first introduction to how we're thinking about stock and seeds um that is you can start to see every l and whistle that is added on top of beanstalk at this point in time has to be constructed in such a way as to be deeply symbiotic with the underlying economics of beanstalk and in this case creating a beanstalk and a bean seed a unispot pool uh seems to be thus far uh the most optimal solution we've come up with and we think that it it will have uh positive network effects on uh the price of being but also the meaning meaning of having stock and seized liquid is that now you can have a market that reflects uh the future growth expectations of beanstalk without that necessarily translating to the price of a bean meaning if the short-term uh inflation expectations are decreasing uh you would expect the price of stock to come down um and because the pool is being stock on the price of stock coming down means that people are selling stock in exchange for beans and this now goes back to our conversation about creating utility but the only assumption that this makes is that every time people are selling stock they aren't necessarily selling them into ethereum they may be selling them into beans to go use the beans somewhere else so the only way that this complexity uh is potentially not exclusively beneficial is if there is a low level of utility of beans which is obviously current currently the case so when it comes to growing beanstalk in the right way um it sort of has to grow in a couple of different axes all at once um can certainly be done but it has to be done in the right fashion and this is one of the main areas where our attention is currently focused got it okay and moving a couple of more questions on just being and stock and you know i i see a lot of questions as well on the partnerships element and the outreach i think maybe for the next few minutes we can continue to go through some of the more uh some of the questions around the elements of the protocol and then i think it would be nice to round out the conversation with you know the looking ahead and talking about the partnership stuff um so with regards to continuing that conversation about you know seeds and stocks uh like two things you know one in terms of community initiatives a lot of the community initiatives that have been planned you know have been incentivized via beans do you think in the future there will be incentives in the form of seed and stock to drive some community initiatives uh if it were up to us um and it's not because peenstock ultimately is dependent on the stockholders to vote um that would not be the case um you feel pretty strongly that one of the main main reasons why beanstalk is money for people and not money for vcs or money for uh whales is because the only way to get stock and seeds sure you can buy them um some people that have done this but the only way to get stock and seeds is to buy and deposit beans and the fact that fundamentally the only way to participate in the growth of peeing stock is to buy the currency or at least buy the seniors token from somebody else that bought the currency makes it fundamentally different from a traditional senior edge model where um the people that got in early are the only ones that are really profiting and everyone else is just using the currency for utility instead the fact that the only way to get stock and seeds is uh by buying the only way to create stock and seeds is by buying a bean and depositing the bean that enables anyone to participate in the future growth of beanstalk um and they don't have to do it in a way where they're just purchasing it from uh you know the senior shareholders that got in super early got it and in terms of you know looking at just obviously the world of d5 but when you look at some other not necessarily stable coin protocols but just other coins right and you go on uni swap there are pools you can potentially generate yield by either staking or pooling are there any plans in the future to potentially create you know stock and seed pools on a decks like uni swap yeah that's exactly right so the idea will be that stock and seeds will have a uniswa pool that is tradable against bean so you'll be able to go from stock into any other asset on uniswap um in general when we talk about integrations with other protocols the idea that stock and seeds become liquid is one of the main potential things that other protocols could find attractive to incorporate into um for example uh i believe mim only allows you to deposit uh to borrow against uh assets that are yield generated um so bean uh might not qualify on its own uh but stock and seeds with which both have their own individual yield components seeds yielding stock and stock yielding beans uh might be uh better suited for something like that so uh the fun starts uh one stock and seeds are liquid and then uh the amount of different financial engineering ideas that can be built on top of beanstalk uh with a new sophisticated uh stock and seed uh price being overlaid on top of that uh becomes very exciting uh just to think about so uh one of the main drivers of beanstalk becoming the basis of d5 is not just that you have a stablecoin you also have uh native uh markets that will be able to reflect uh some sort of future expectation of being stuck as well meaning it's not just a current market you also have markets that are uh you know sort of a futures market or at least a bet on the state of being stock in the future and to that point on seed and stock liquidity you know any any info on timing around that so timing is a lot harder to specify um and the main reason for that is making stock and seeds liquid may or may not be deeply intertwined uh when we develop it with uh our layer two integration so one of the things that the community has really emphasized which is that they feel it is essential that we launch or beanstalk launches uh beanstalk that are supported uh on other other evm compatible chains um and specifically to do it in a way that creates a network effect around beanstalk and the main reason for this is that if we don't do it uh someone else will launch a copy and that copy on a layer two will effectively serve as a competitor so uh that argument resonates with us and we think that we figured out uh at an economic level at least uh what scaling to layer two would look like um to outline it a little bit the idea would basically be that uh stock seeds and beans basically any asset uh in beanstalk uh can be bridged uh through being stock uh from one uh compatible chain to another so if we were on polygon for example um and you had a beans or you had stock or you had seeds on the main chain you could bridge them over to polygon um doubt um without needing to make any other transactions other than directly through beanstalk and the economics under it would be supported by the fact that the price uh of a bean is still 100 determined by the being eath pool on mainnet um so the whole system is still oriented except orienting itself around one pool um but then in terms of calculating the new beans the new soil that is minted you could actually use the liquidity from the other chains as well for the bean eat pools in the other chains as well but still have the accuracy of the main price so uh the short answer is when is all this going to happen well these are deeply related problems and we may be able to launch stock and seeds being tradable on the main net uh soon but then that could delay if we don't do it in tandem uh scaling beanstalk to layer two so in fact this would be one of the areas where we would be most interested in feedback from the community which do they feel is more important to prioritize potentially um launching to layer two in something similar to our current form sooner and then launching stock and seeds uh on both mainnet and like you know layer one and layer two um at some point in the not too distant future um but the ordering is is still up in the air and you know each of these individual projects uh is at least a couple of weeks but more likely around a month uh plus each uh on the labor side and so uh kind of the last uh variable that will factor into uh timing uh is how quickly the quality of which we can surround beanstalk with other developers so um that's an easier said than done ask in the sense that high quality solidity developers are are very difficult to find um but we've you know we've been encouraged by the amount of outreach uh our community has been making thus far to try to find high quality developers and uh the ability to find them uh would certainly expedite the uh our ability to push uh updates to beanstalk got it um i think to round out the conversation a little bit we talked a lot about you know seeds and stocks i think the next few the next round of questions kind you know deals necessarily with like pods weather i think we should discuss pods weather touched on nfps a little bit and then ideally you know poop leaves we can go back to what you were talking about earlier about what you need the community to do and we can talk a little bit about you know what's to come on on whether you know as you mentioned before you know we're obviously in the debt cycle and clearly you can see that when you look at the weather chart in the bip um the latest bip there's been a proposal to potentially update the wave or the rate of change of the weather just generally speaking can you talk a little bit about you know how the weather has been working and what is the proposed change to the rate of weather sure so philosophically in stock doesn't care what the weather is per se the only thing it cares about is that the weather is sufficiently high such that it can attract enough demand uh to return the price of one beam to one dollar and specifically uh beanstalk would rather be aggressive meaning have a weather that is too high um maybe we should define that as conservative so beanstalk would rather be conservative and have pay too much and have a weather that is too high um then risk the opposite which would be having a weather that is too low and in the case where the weather is too low um that is how you can start to enter a negative feedback loop like what happened uh six weeks ago or so because the weather was at like one percent or something because there were no pods and it had just been going through a period of growth um weather was so low that it couldn't quickly attract uh lenders now obviously given the scale of being stock at that point in time um and the the magnitude of loans that it needed to attract um that would have been impossible regardless um in general when the price is too low uh beanstalk is very aggressive and raises the weather uh three percent almost every season when the price is too low um and obviously depending on the change in demand for debt it may be slightly less than that um when the when the price is too low and especially when the debt level is above optimal in stock is incredibly aggressive at raising 11. now on the flip side there is high debt uh but the price is high um meaning that bean stock is going to pay off some debt right now um that would be the opportunity to potentially lower the weather now originally he said the parameters such that beanstalk would be very conservative in how it lowers the weather such that and per our discussion a little bit earlier trying to avoid entering another debt cycle anytime soon install would rather pay marginally higher weather and make sure that it doesn't have a you know a couple of day period where it can't attract any debt because the weather is too low accordingly it airs on the side of raising the weather now uh short answer is in part due to the fact that this is the first debt cycle and has been so large um weather has grown to a pretty high rate um and the point is that now that price has started to oscillate around one um it doesn't necessarily make sense for beanstalk to continue to be so conservative but to continue to raise the weather so quickly um and the price is below one and then not also mirror that by lowering it at a similar rate when the price is back above one so uh originally the parameters were set to be incredibly conservative and now that beanstalk has started to prove itself and hold the price at one we feel it's appropriate to change the weather changes very slightly such that there's a little bit more symmetry when the price is above one and below one so as it hangs out around the peg the weather is more likely to stay somewhat constant and continuing to rise so this is a change that uh doesn't need to be made frankly um we were debating whether to even do it given that it's not essential um the way that the weather changes were constructed in beanstalk is to make them incredibly modular and incredibly easy to modify uh just one or just a small selection of the 16 weather changes and given that it it does seem to us to propose to pose a marginal benefit um makes sense to do it and it also makes sense to demonstrate the ability for being stuck to make minor changes like this without any major adjustments to the to the protocol or the rules but to just make minor changes to specific values uh to improve the efficiency of the system um now was a question asked uh what when we had discussed it i'm considering changing it from a linear approach where the maximum beating stock can change the weather rate is a maximum of plus or minus three an absolute value of three um a more dynamic weather changing mechanism or perhaps it changes uh instead of linearly but uh in a mult multiplication multiplicative way where uh instead of plus or minus uh three degrees three percent uh you could multiply the weather by 0.97 or multiply it by 1.03 and therefore have the weather uh much more rapidly adjust up or down based on changes in demand for debt and the price and the debt level um reason ultimately we have decided not to propose [Music] whether that changes that quickly is two-fold one whether in such a scenario where it could increase three percent every season not literally but times 1.03 um every season uh if beanstalk goes through a major debt cycle like it did over the past six weeks uh the weather in that case would reach uh infinity perhaps um you can't multiply uh 1.03 times itself indefinitely um about the weather just starting to grow to a very unsustainable rate um but more specifically if you think about the incentives on sowing beans to be lending beans to beef stock sowing beans is currently uh well let's take a step back the underlying mechanism is designed to attract lenders as quickly and efficiently as possible first in first out harvest schedule creates an environment where i feel like right now based on the current price the current debt level um and the weather is an attractive time to lend to bean stock first in first down harvest schedule makes it such that i am incentivized to do it immediately because if somebody else lands in front of me or ahead of me um my rate of return is going to go down specifically it's probably going to go down more than i stand to gain by waiting a couple of hours for the interest rate to go up um whereas and that's in the case where there's a linear increase in the weather whereas in the case where the weather can increase much much much better the incentive to lend beans to bean stock um created by the first in first out uh service schedule is going to be greatly lessened because potentially if i wait a couple more hours the weather could increase 100 percent the weather could double um and the idea that the weather can double in just a few hours um would greatly decrease the incentive to lend beans to beanstalk in an efficient fashion so uh given that the idea is to attract capital um as efficiently as possible um you don't feel like the multiplying method is the right uh the right method certainly at this stage of the game where again the main issue is that the debt cycle has taken some time because there isn't a lot of outstanding demand for beans below a dollar because it hasn't created utility because it hasn't proven itself as being worth a dollar so as that uh starts to happen um then you can start to think about maybe being even more aggressive or conservative again with raising the weather quicker and quicker um but even in that case we would likely be opposed to uh doing it uh animal in a way that is uh potentially exponential and how quickly the weather grows got it got it looking at the time i wanted to ask you know one more one or two more questions about the protocol i think we actually did a good job covering most of them but obviously for those listening and if you're listening from the future if you're listening to the recording obviously feel free to participate in the discussion in the general and you know i'm sure there's gonna be a community member that can either get you up to speed or answer the question on nfts uh obviously it was a fun little thing for those of uh those of you in the room who were sewing during that time period organic teammates were going on um you know i checked my two guys on a regular basis uh what's the is there have you thought about uh the future of what's gonna happen with the nfts is there anything the community should know are there gonna be any potential benefits of either things that folks can do to generate utility whether it's burning the nft to earn either beans potentially trading them to sow and any kind of fun things planned for nfts in the future that may have utility for the platform sure so the nft event was a huge success in our opinion and there's also by the evidence of the number of being profile picks this uh ama it's evident that it has led to the start of a strong community um and so going forward things to balance are using the nfts or minting more nfts or having an event future events that create more network effects with diluting the value of the original nfts and though to some extent we're going to take a cop out here um and say that we would like for example to do like a winter nft edition a bnft edition which um they may you know continue up to the 6000 original threshold um only about a third of the potential 6000 were amended in the first event um so maybe more of those could be minted in the future but it's a compound because uh all of the decisions on the bnfts ultimately will be made by the bft holders and so we've we've tried to set up uh within our discord server on a bnft club room uh where those types of conversations can be had um and anyone with a bnft can join the club room and participate in nft governance decisions so pending the approval of the bnft holders uh there might be some really cool and exciting stuff coming in the pipeline um but that's a little bit harder for us to project forward uh you know given that even today uh you know the the decision making on that front is going to be 100 determined by being ft holders and is you know more of a community thing at this point than an economics thing and so we'd like the community to you know to lead the way on that front okay yeah absolutely i'm definitely going to be doing my part and for those of you who do you have i'm actually looking at some of the some of the profile pics right now we've got a couple ones um i think that's great i think ultimately at some point similar to what we've seen with some other platforms if there's a way to create some utility within whether it's through passive income or through giving us the ability to interact with the protocol i i think that would be great but point taken i think uh for those of you who are listening and you have nfps please join that group and we can have those conversations to wrap up the conversation that we're having today i think the big question on on our minds and we talked so much about the health of the protocol and how clearly things are at least looking like you know they are working as planned as we move forward and we scale talking about scale so there are two things that that i think we should discuss you know the first one being on the funding side and the second being more on the marketing partnership side and let's start with the partnerships piece can you talk a little bit about that front so with regards to being not only integrating with other protocols but but forming partnerships that would not only increase beam visibility but would also create other opportunities to penetrate this entire market you know what what are some of these partnerships that we're either looking at now or we're looking to do and what can the community do to help totally the long and the short of it is that adding utility around beans is a chicken in the egg problem it's a chicken in the egg in the sense that once we are stable it makes a lot more sense or at least as stability increases it increases the incentive for beans to be adopted into any specific protocol the chicken in the egg is that the stability of beanstalk italy improves as being we should say the stability of beans greatly improves as beans and beanstalk are incorporated into other protocols and given that we are anonymous uh it's very difficult uh to on our own try to leverage a network um or our networks to get beans uh incorporated into other protocols um this is likely gonna have to be one of the main areas that the community steps up and what we mean by that is protocol to a large extent is doing its job so far um the price of being is oscillating around one and that's really the only thing beanstalk cares about obviously it wants to lower the debt level over time but the main way that the debt level is going to be decreased is an increase in utility which creates demand for beans and creates demand for being in the silo um the way to think about that is lending beans to beans is one side of the market and you're lending beans to being stocked with the expectation that in the future there will be utility and there will be demand for that utility and then the other side of the market is the people actually uh taking advantage of that utility and using the beans so on the on the first side of the market being stock seems to be doing a pretty good job it continues to attract lenders the pot line continues to grow and most importantly the price is staying at one so the next step is to start to have uh substantive conversations with various protocols that are interested in adding beans as an integration now there's a lot that needs to be said here especially given that as we said beanstalk is still in an infant state and it needs a little bit of head holding and neck support so if you look at just for example uh cream vulnerability that was exploited over the past couple of days um let's say theoretically beans uh or stock or seeds were used on cream and there was large borrowing markets for for beans um let's just say there was a million or two million beans uh that you could potentially uh borrow uh on cream what happened yesterday happened in this scenario where there's a lot of beanstalk assets on cream uh given the decentralized nature of beanstalk uh whoever the attacker was uh may be very happy to hold their beans um at the same time there's nothing beanstalk can really do to prevent that person from selling their beans and if someone stole millions of beans and dumped them at this stage of the game that goes back to what we laid out as kind of the main thing that pinstock wants to avoid at this point in time um which is another major dip uh you know to 50 cents 20 cents something like that um so there's a lot not just from a risk perspective that needs to be considered at any time at least at this stage of the game beanstalk is incorporating into other protocols now this goes back to the chicken and the egg because as beans are incorporated into other protocols that will lead to the debt level coming down which will put beanstalk in a better position to take on more risk uh adding more protocols so very chicken in the egg here and gotta start somewhere so if members of the community have a connection at a lending market or um at the very least feel like they have protocols that could benefit from beings um like auger uh and wanted to start the conversation of having opinions potentially incorporated into any given protocol we would highly encourage you to start those conversations sooner rather than later we would offer that we're happy to talk to any development team that is considering incorporating beans into their protocol and the last thing to highlight is at this stage of the game it's probably pretty important that whatever protocols we integrate into the get-go are very decentralized um decentralization is obviously one of the main value drivers for beanstalk and um exposure to a centralized kill switch is something we want to avoid at all times um and so again putting assets uh at risk uh whether that may be that they get hacked um or that a centralized protocol can use them against beanstalk all of that needs to be considered um it all needs to be considered in the general lens of beans are going to be incorporated across the board and this is part of the process and in order for beans to be incorporated across the board it does need to start to be incorporated somewhere so step one is proving utility by keeping the price of the peg the protocol seems to be doing that reasonably well step two is to start to uh onboard beams into other protocols um last uh layer to add on top of this and we've already spoken on it so we'll keep this brief is that star and seeds becoming liquid um that becomes a very interesting set of assets to incorporate into a lending a borrowing protocol or something similar uh because of the way that you can trade stockton seeds to reflect your position on beanstalk um aside from just buying and selling beans which can have a dampening effect on the price um which would obviously increase the utility got it and right after this which i'm assuming will increase the utility excuse me increase the utility increase the utility there we go there that's what we like here um i i i think the other piece of this and we talked about this during the last ama i remember this uh on the funding side of things so i i don't mean in terms of funding the the protocol at you know like a startup funding type thing more on the basis of either silo or silo lp and even looking back to the comments you made about before the first cycle and how there were folks who basically were not permanent capital or high quality capital you would mention during the last day of may that there were either some conversations or there's some obvious demand to go out and get you know that high quality you know long-term capital into the platform on the silo or the style olp side can you give us an update are there any conversations there or is anything is anything happening in that regard on the high quality funding side so short answer is yes um we are encouraged both by the volume of conversations that we're starting to have with higher quality capital and also uh the conversations themselves so uh when it comes to uh decent capital for beanstalk there is the fundamental uh problem it is a problem to some extent that there is no centralized entity with which to invest into and so even if we have a great call with you know a larger crypto fund or a crypto family office or something like that that might have a longer term time horizon and be interested in supporting being stuck in multiple sizes over different over a longer period of time but there's also no operating agreement for them to sign or there's no contract for them to sign and to some extent that makes it a little bit hard to gauge how much capital has been deployed by larger parties per se um obviously the community has noticed for example when uh one wallet with well over a hundred million uh us dollars worth of capital uh started to sow beans um and all we can say is that we are encouraged by those types of transactions that are the result of conversations that are having and hope is to have continue to have high quality conversations with uh hopefully high quality capital and i apologize uh for the fire engines um but the point is that uh one other thing that's been very encouraging to us is that we've started to have lots of intros to a higher quality capital from our community members and so the fact that the community is starting to use their own network um to try to bring uh high quality capital into beanstalk uh is is an indication that we're on the right track um so the short answer is in our opinion it's being received very well um by by the people that are receiving it and uh as the price continues to be held at a dollar uh we assume that there's going to be more and more uh converse into into bean farmers got it got it absolutely if uh yeah if anyone if anyone here has easy access to a pension fund please make yourself known that would probably be the sleepiest highest quality capital we can get um all very helpful i am looking through thread i think we did a pretty good job of going through a lot of those questions we covered pretty much everything from the you know the high level mission of the protocol to the competitors the space we talked very specifically about many of the protocol elements like stocks seeds obviously pods weather um i i want to open up the floor obviously if there's anyone that wants to ask something in the conversation we've had you know please feel free to raise your hand or dump something into the thread while that's potentially happening um we got bean merchant on the stage being merchant what's going on oh i was just gonna add uh that there will be a bean scholars call next tuesday for folks who like this ama and want to kind of get deeper on beanstalk someone mentioned um that ohm community did this really early on where uh people who wanted to kind of learn more about the protocol and become experts just could kind of have a q a with zeus who is the founder of ohm so we're going to do something similar uh with beanstalk it'll be next tuesday at 6 p.m pacific and i'll send a message but just wanted to make sure i said it during the ama for those who are interested yeah i think that's absolutely great so that's that's going to be tuesday 6 p.m pacific time yep that's right awesome i i'll definitely try to join that if i can i'm gonna i wanted to wait till this ama obviously because we covered so much but i want to start making some videos and i absolutely think we need to start i don't want to use the word uh i don't want to use the p word pump here but i think we need to start educating let's use the e word um and start educating folks about what's going on especially given the recent activity on twitter so looking ahead publius i think now is probably a good time to and you've sprinkled this throughout the conversation we've talked a lot about getting the community involved and right after this we're gonna have a breakout room for people who want to stick around and and get more into the weeds on that but looking ahead you know what what are the biggest things on your mind publius and what exactly is the focus from here on out what are the things that we need to start focusing on and what should we expect awesome so first off thank you being merchant uh for coordinating that scholar call and uh our hope is to do as much as possible to educate anyone who's interested about every question they could possibly have about being stuck so if you can't make that shoot as a dm if you're interested in beanstalk uh you know we're committed to spending the time that that you feel like you really have a handle on everything and you can start to talk about it in a way that you feel confident in um but at a more macro level than that uh i've laid out a little bit of what the near future or the next couple of months looks like for beanstalk um but i think it's helpful for everyone to hear specifically what are some of the ways that they uh can help uh if if they're interested to help so number one uh has to be we're still in the phase of trying to spread the word about beanstalk and so that can be as simple as uh telling telling your buddies and your friends uh that this is going on and a week later reminding them that beans are still at one and maybe a week later reminding them again that beings are still at one and over time uh that becomes pretty compelling that you're hearing it from word of mouth from people that you know that this thing is doing well it's functioning as intended and it's paying you interest um that seems to be thus far um the way that we've been growing is mostly word of mouth and we would like to continue that um a little bit more big picture than that is if any of our community members uh have connections to uh high quality crypto podcasts um or other uh crypto news sites uh and the like uh and they would be willing to try to set up uh you know either a podcast interview or something similar for for written form uh we'd be we'd be happy to participate and i think that would be a good way to get exposure to being stuck for more uh high quality thoughtful individuals that are curious about what's going on here and kind of goes without saying but good to say nonetheless that long form uh tends to be the best for something like beanstalk uh mainly because of the complexity of the system um in addition to just connections to uh the media um there's also uh we have a marketing budget uh which was uh created uh 80 000 beans were allocated to the marketing budget uh when bip one was passed and we're hopeful that the community will propose uh various things that they want to be paid for to contribute so for example uh dumpling one of our community members is gonna make a proposal to the marketing budget to to make some merchandise and it's going to work to start selling or distributing the merchandise to to bean farmers that want it um and another example of how we'd like to see the marketing budget used as uh in merchant is putting together uh some sort of meme contest um where people will be awarded beans for picking the best memes around being stock or making the best educational content or uh ipo and chill in your case the best uh short term videos for beanstalk so there's a pool of capital 80 000 beans or so at anyone who wants uh to participate creating content around beanstalk creating additional documentation um whatever it may be uh you can get paid and beans to to contribute on that front um another area where people can be really helpful uh us is connecting us with uh developers uh both on the solidity front and the the front end uh we're at the phase where over the past month being stuck went from a two and a half million dollar project to a 20-something million dollar project and we're trying to scale the team around beanstalk to reflect that growth um obviously the ability to attract high quality talent uh is a big part of making beanstalk and the development team around being stuck something that can operate independently of publius a reality so with that in mind if anyone has uh in their network solidity developers um they think might be interested in getting paid from the developer budget in beans to develop bean stock um we would also encourage them to try to connect us and store to a more pro level if anyone is interested in getting involved but none of these ideas resonates um or makes you want to get up and do it uh and you have another idea for how to help or what can be a positive contribution to beanstalk you would encourage anyone uh to propose their own marketing proposal to the marketing budget on snapshot uh and give it a go and if the community likes it you'll get approved so there's a million different ways uh at this stage of the game you can help beanstalk um but the number one has to be just getting more eyes onto beanstalk um in a in a positive way so through friends through high quality podcasts and the like and then separately on the specifics uh creating content uh can be used to help market beanstalk uh bringing in developers that can help develop in stock um we're sort of at the phase where we are in need of more talent and more in need of more labor and in need of more people around being stock um to continue to develop uh this at the pace uh that everyone wants it to be developed uh keeping in line with the quality that thus far being stuff has been developed so um speed and quality are obviously at odds and uh an increase in developer talent around beanstalk can go a long way to helping with that that makes sense and for those of you who do want to stick around and either raise your hand for certain things ask more questions or even just strategize and theorize around how we can make progress on a few of these things we'll be we'll be chilling here first you know shortly after we finish this you know this ama so to speak um maybe it's the last thing to add on go for it on the advice of some of our community members uh over the past couple days at the bottom of our categories in the server we made a dow category um with a general dao uh channel where you can kind of hop in and say what your skills are or what you would want to work on and the like and once you make a saying kind of what you're up to you get access to the rest of the dao category um which we're going to try to use to um focus a lot of the the community effort around beanstalk in a slightly more organized fashion so if that interests you uh come hang out uh on the dow champ the dao category got it got it makes sense so i wanna it looks like folks have been you know obviously thank you everyone for sticking around and participating and asking the questions you know these are all felt very natural to me but these are all things that you know i learned a ton these are all things that are important and i think you know being merchant talked a little bit earlier about the scholar calls that are happening the next one on tuesday evening i think it is important that everyone is able to conversationally talk about this i mean i personally have gotten a few of my friends to come in and sell granted they're already in the world of crypto but you know depending on you're familiar i argue with crypto at broadly or or not i think it's important that everyone understands what's happening here and what you're getting involved in so that's first um we talked quite a bit about pretty much everything really we kind of spanned the whole gamut so i'm excited for the recording i'm probably gonna listen to it myself one more time just to make sure i i'm up to speed on everything but for those of you who joined a little bit late there will be a recording so look out for that and you can catch the beginning of the conversation and i think you know publicly i think we should do these on a regular basis so any any preference on your part i'm thinking maybe once every two weeks potentially three weeks but maybe we should reconvene after a few weeks and just keep these going on a regular basis it can even serve as a as an orientation for new folks uh we're happy to do this uh as much as people would like um as frequently as once a week if there's demand for that um the only thing to kind of mention is the only reason we wouldn't do this every week or every day is we don't want beanstalk to be dependent on publish so to some extent there's real benefit in having as much communication with the community so that everyone is on the same page as possible um that's very valuable um but we want to make sure that we're not conducting ourselves in a way that creates the expectation uh that this is going to be reliant on publius uh indefinitely so uh that being said in the short term this is still very much early early early days in beanstalk we hope and accordingly we're happy to have as much communication as people would like um so every week every two weeks whatever that may be and then over time you know we can scale that down uh or up as appropriate i i think that makes sense obviously there are some business continuity issues maybe we can we can figure something out offline but i think let's mark maybe two weeks uh obviously if something changes then we can do one earlier but i think doing these on a regular basis is important especially for new folks and you know with that being said unless you have anything else to add i just want to thank the folks that joined participated this has been this has been lit let's just tell like it is um so at this point i think if folks do want to stick around and discuss some of the more community conditions oh we can do that but i published unless there's anything else you'd like to add i think we had a good session um just want to tack on that um if people would like to go ahead and post in the skillset volunteer channel if they would like to be part of the beanstalk farms now to go ahead and that could help us in a more organized way distribute you know labor and you know see what projects we have that people could get involved with all right sounds good i feel like i feel like i have to start you know i gotta get my own version of this uh this uh voice tool that you guys are using i feel a little lucked out but thank you guys so much for joining and until next time keep farming thank you guys so much for coming and listening and uh thank you ipo and shell for hosting and we're very excited to continue to build build out the community continue to build beanstalk together and from our perspective this is just getting started so if anyone wants to hang out and start to have a discussion on how they want to get involved in beanstalk uh why don't we plan to take like a two minute uh afternoon break and then we whoever's still here in in two minutes or so we can anyone who wants to join the stage and we can start to have more of a round table all right um that's exciting 15 people are still hanging out so um maybe the best way to do this is be nation you have your handwriting so we'll just invite you up here and then we'll go from there in nation you should be able to hop onto the onto the stage at this point go ahead i don't think we can hear you oh now we can't beautiful uh so can we have a can sort of uh write up that we can use to reach out to protocols or you know other podcasters that uh uh that that we wanna sort of market beans on so um the just just a write-up is there is there something we can already use or something that that we need to come up with there's not anything currently for you necessarily um that you can copy and paste um on the one hand uh this stage of the game most of the connections are probably gonna be through your network meaning a cookie cutter template probably isn't the best but at the same time it's obviously much easier for people if they have a sense of what are the highlights to post um in case you know where where people want to just get like the tl dr um so we do have i'm gonna top it right now and i'm gonna paste it your chat i can paste it in here um maybe maybe i'm just going to post it in general dao um people um anyone who wants to hop in there and read it um i just pasted that in general dao awesome thank you so uh i'm gonna remove you from the stage if i can figure out how to get moved audience but if you have another question obviously raise your hand uh don't happen to bring me back up so boy we're gonna call on you now and boy you've been invited to speak oh i see the like audio isn't on like speaker phone anymore um basically i was just wondering about um have you guys heard of layer uh no i have not so basically there's this platform called layer that allows you to incentivize kind of option actions like marketing via bounties kind of like public bounties and so i was thinking it might be good to look into for being stuck to kind of you know incentivize like high performing tweets about beings that you know get get high levels of engagement or views or certain like uh you know tutorial building type activities would be cool you can basically just say like you will get paid in x currency for doing this thing that sounds awesome and we've already noted it on our end and uh if this is something that you would be interested in coordinating or being the point person for you know it sounds great and we would totally be on board to try to making something like that happen yeah i mean i can work on setting up the layer 3 listing um obviously well i guess it might require some work in terms of someone i don't have access to the social account but i assume that we'd want to send out messages uh for like payouts and stuff via those the main social exchange and not be in my account but if you guys if you want assistance with like setting it up and stuff i think i could do that definitely and we wouldn't want you to be on the hook for any of that obviously uh we would figure out a way to make it funded by the marketing budget um so uh we would be greatly appreciative uh if you if you led the way there and we're obviously happy to answer uh any questions you have while that's getting started and we can structure it together all right yeah i guess i'll send some messages in the discord about it but it should be pretty easy to set up i believe i know people who work there too so it seems potentially not too hard that would be much appreciated so uh come hang out in the dao and we can coordinate this cool thank you very much so if anyone else raises their hand we can call you up here um but maybe just to create a call to action uh especially given that anyone who's still hanging out here we have a reasonable expectation you're interested in helping um say the best way to get involved is to make it known how you want to get involved um so as we were saying before uh at the end of the ama if you go drop in skill set volunteer um the dow captain in the dow category what you are interested in helping with or where you think you might be able to add value to beanstalk uh would greatly appreciate that as kind of a good starting place to contribute to the community step one is just letting people know but you you are interested in helping with um and in nation excuse me being merchants um you guys are right next to each other but being merchant who is uh you know the soul community organizer at this moment uh he will be doing a lot of the coordination there as well um so we would say feel free to uh ask us if you have an idea or presented in the dow um and then you know everyone should be kind of working uh with being asian to make sure that it's coordinated and if you need help from other be stock community members um with whatever it is you're working on uh hopefully we have a sufficient uh kind of group around beanstalk that is in pitching and filling wherever there's a little bit of help needed um so in the short term uh we would say if anyone here has uh marketing ideas or something you want to kind of spearhead a la what would just laid out um or even a specific project like we want to host a meme contest and you want to put that together um any of those are great ideas and the ideas that you come up with are also probably um and then the last place is just to reiterate uh if people have any uh connections podcasts uh or other crypto media sources that they feel might be an exposure for beanstalk um you know that would also be a great way to add value to the community at this stage of the game so um before we kind of disband uh just wanted to offer a last opportunity for people to either raise their hand if they have something to say um or ask a question that didn't get answered um you know or otherwise if if everyone's kind of feels like uh they've gotten what they needed uh and can go just start hanging out in the dow um all of that sounds very good to us awesome awesome uh we can't thank you guys enough for sticking around and for showing you know an interested in working on beanstalk and making this thing a reality so he gets us very excited very very excited and we can just close us by reiterating uh how committed we are to all of you uh to doing this the right way uh to doing everything in our power to making being stuck a reality um and again doing it the right way um so that takes a lot of time it takes a lot of energy it takes a lot of mental effort um and most importantly it'll take a really strong community around beanstalk um we're committed to making that happen and we're incredibly enthused um this by the community that's starting to spring up around beanstalk so thank you everyone for your time today and uh we will talk soon enough thank you take there everybody you